Should there be a sorc sustain fix?

mairwen85

As the title implies, in my opinion, sorcs don't need a buff, they need a fix for sustain.

Magsorcs seem to me to be the redheaded stepson of the dps family, stamsorc the black sheep.

Discuss...

Judas Helviaryn

Heavy attack build. 42k self buffed 6m. Not the best, but good enough for me.

ezio45

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Heavy attack build. 42k self buffed 6m. Not the best, but good enough for me.

by heavy attack you mean pet sorc.

non pet sorc massively needs a sustain buff

Sheezabeast

Yes this is fair for Sorcs. And it is in line with the buff Templars got from the changes to Rune in Murkmire.

Dr3sden

What hasn't it been fixed? I thought I read long time ago it was issue class rep people brought up? Is it really problem for Sorc class? Doesn't everyone have sustain issues since morrowind?

Judas Helviaryn

ezio45 wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Heavy attack build. 42k self buffed 6m. Not the best, but good enough for me.

by heavy attack you mean pet sorc.

non pet sorc massively needs a sustain buff

No, buddy. Not a petsorc. I run one scamp, no twilight, no curse.

If you want to call that your typical petsorc, you'd just be emphasizing your inexperience.

AbysmalGhul

Most people I know use a magicka absorb enchant on their back bar and use balance to maintain on a 6 mill.

I just run ghostly eye scream or what ever you call it food /drink buff.

Royaji

I think ZOS made it pretty clear with last patch's changes that in their vision sorc is supposed to be a pet class and run at least one pet. Non-pet sorc is just a weaker magblade. Why don't you go play magblade/magplar for non-pet build?

Onefrkncrzypope

Mag Sorc is just under enough sustain. Stam Sorc is abysmal. If you could block cancel deal and only get the sustain overtime buff the sustain would be solved ish for the mag. Stam is just hard carried by redguard.

I hit 50k on all DPS with just puncture or ele. Sorcs are a hard one to get there.

ccmedaddy

If we're talking about PvE, then yeah magsorc absolutely needs a sustain buff. I play all classes except for stamDK and magsorc undoubtedly has the worst sustain out of all of them. The only sustain tool available to the magsorc (other than Equilibrium) is a skill with a cast time, and no one who takes their DPS seriously will use that skill.

It's funny how they could've simply made the procced frags free to cast but ZOS hated the idea of buffing magsorcs so much that they nerfed everyone else's sustain instead lol (and yet they still sustain better than magsorc -_-).

ezio45

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Heavy attack build. 42k self buffed 6m. Not the best, but good enough for me.

by heavy attack you mean pet sorc.

non pet sorc massively needs a sustain buff

No, buddy. Not a petsorc. I run one scamp, no twilight, no curse.

If you want to call that your typical petsorc, you'd just be emphasizing your inexperience.

you just said you use the scamp..... which is a combat.... PET

yes that is 100% a typical pets sorc, most pet sorcs only use the scamp. the only reason you would ever use a twilight on a sorc is in vma. As for you not using curse, unless by that you mean your using deadric prey, then thats your own inexperience. Magsorc, either variation of the build should be running either haunting curse with no pets or deadric prey with the scamp.

also, dont call me inexperienced when it comes to sorc. Thats like telling Gordon Ramsay he cant cook.

ezio45

Royaji wrote: »

I think ZOS made it pretty clear with last patch's changes that in their vision sorc is supposed to be a pet class and run at least one pet. Non-pet sorc is just a weaker magblade. Why don't you go play magblade/magplar for non-pet build?

because there are or were things that sorc, pet or non, bring to the group that magblade do not. Magsorc use to provide off balance, they still provide prophecy. A very long time ago before zos got on the nightblade kick non pet sorc was the king of sustained damage. AFTER that they make nightblade have harder hitting sustained damage. Nightblade was always burst king and sorc was sustained dps.

also outside of pve, in pvp petsorc is a non option. You have the zoo keeper build for duels but that falls apart quickly in actual pvp.

As for why i wont switch, I like magsorc, its my main with all of my achievements on it. Its the toon I want future achievements on. I also find the rotation more satisfying and fun that a magblade. Magblade rotation is boring, it feels like your just pressing buttons, not one skill on magblade feels like your landing a meaningful hit against something.

Judas Helviaryn

ezio45 wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Heavy attack build. 42k self buffed 6m. Not the best, but good enough for me.

by heavy attack you mean pet sorc.

non pet sorc massively needs a sustain buff

No, buddy. Not a petsorc. I run one scamp, no twilight, no curse.

If you want to call that your typical petsorc, you'd just be emphasizing your inexperience.

you just said you use the scamp..... which is a combat.... PET

yes that is 100% a typical pets sorc, most pet sorcs only use the scamp. the only reason you would ever use a twilight on a sorc is in vma. As for you not using curse, unless by that you mean your using deadric prey, then thats your own inexperience. Magsorc, either variation of the build should be running either haunting curse with no pets or deadric prey with the scamp.

also, dont call me inexperienced when it comes to sorc. Thats like telling Gordon Ramsay he cant cook.

Keep telling yourself that buddy.

ezio45

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Heavy attack build. 42k self buffed 6m. Not the best, but good enough for me.

by heavy attack you mean pet sorc.

non pet sorc massively needs a sustain buff

No, buddy. Not a petsorc. I run one scamp, no twilight, no curse.

If you want to call that your typical petsorc, you'd just be emphasizing your inexperience.

you just said you use the scamp..... which is a combat.... PET

yes that is 100% a typical pets sorc, most pet sorcs only use the scamp. the only reason you would ever use a twilight on a sorc is in vma. As for you not using curse, unless by that you mean your using deadric prey, then thats your own inexperience. Magsorc, either variation of the build should be running either haunting curse with no pets or deadric prey with the scamp.

also, dont call me inexperienced when it comes to sorc. Thats like telling Gordon Ramsay he cant cook.

Keep telling yourself that buddy.

keep telling your self your not a pet sorc

buddy

Royaji

ezio45 wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

I think ZOS made it pretty clear with last patch's changes that in their vision sorc is supposed to be a pet class and run at least one pet. Non-pet sorc is just a weaker magblade. Why don't you go play magblade/magplar for non-pet build?

because there are or were things that sorc, pet or non, bring to the group that magblade do not. Magsorc use to provide off balance, they still provide prophecy. A very long time ago before zos got on the nightblade kick non pet sorc was the king of sustained damage. AFTER that they make nightblade have harder hitting sustained damage. Nightblade was always burst king and sorc was sustained dps.

also outside of pve, in pvp petsorc is a non option. You have the zoo keeper build for duels but that falls apart quickly in actual pvp.

As for why i wont switch, I like magsorc, its my main with all of my achievements on it. Its the toon I want future achievements on. I also find the rotation more satisfying and fun that a magblade. Magblade rotation is boring, it feels like your just pressing buttons, not one skill on magblade feels like your landing a meaningful hit against something.

Well this is one of those - you can try to fight ZOS's combat design team or just understand that they are not too fussed and move with the flow.

idk

Sheezabeast wrote: »

Yes this is fair for Sorcs. And it is in line with the buff Templars got from the changes to Rune in Murkmire.

What sustain changes did the maglar receive?

The only difference I have seen is pre-murkmire they continued to get the regen for 8 seconds after leaving the rune, but could step back in to refresh. Zos merely made the buff last as long as the buff would if the player remained in the run the entire time.

For stam they merely brought the other more in line with the mag version. Stam sorcs have had a stam version of their sustain skill for a couple years.

mairwen85

Sorc sacrifices a huge amount for decent sustain: spell/weapon dmg, health, max resource, literally all stats that make it useful have to suffer significant decrease to make up for reasonable, on par, sustain. The class is broken... Hence a fix is needed, not just a buff. Pair that with lack of clear direction, all prior nerfs, you are left with a dps joke of a class. I can live with weak shields, low health, heal from crit, but laughable sustain leaves a toy class suitable only for solo/overland play. Considering magicka is the backbone of the tes universe, where's the balance in gimping sorcs to this level?

If offering something up, adequate compensation in other areas is the only measurable payoff... Sorcs don't have to be demi gods, but equal footing seems a burden to achieve for zos... King of the Hill mechanics, OK, but let's determine how high that hill can be at max.

AbysmalGhul

I do hate having to set myself up for sustain for a magsorc. I think sorcerer abilities should get a decent cost reduction in class abilities. I think a 10% cost reduction across the board should help some.

Or reduce the cost of spammables like force pulse and elemental weapon.

mairwen85

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

I do hate having to set myself up for sustain for a magsorc. I think sorcerer abilities should get a decent cost reduction in class abilities. I think a 10% cost reduction across the board should help some.

Indeed. Just having a healer wearing worm is a significant improvement. Begs the question why sorc must rely on the 'sub optimal' build of another player for this most basic game aspect...

AbysmalGhul

mairwen85 wrote: »

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

I do hate having to set myself up for sustain for a magsorc. I think sorcerer abilities should get a decent cost reduction in class abilities. I think a 10% cost reduction across the board should help some.

Indeed. Just having a healer wearing worm is a significant improvement. Begs the question why sorc must rely on the build of another player for this most basic game aspect...

Right? In trials I have no issues, but when it comes time to send a dps video to keep rolling with my guilds, it's a struggle. Dps should be able to strap on gear and go, not sacrifice damage to sustain. When Bright-Throats is looking good as a secondary set...we have issues

mairwen85

Yup. Throwing heavies as static elements in a rotation... Wtf?!

I get my friend to wear worm, cast ele drain, and throw combat prayer, with self applying power surge I can hit 45k, using spell pots. Otherwise it's only 30k if self debuffing. Scandalous in comparison to my night blade who is self sufficient in hitting 50k consistently. (3mil dummy)

tactx

StamSorc def need sustain help. God it's such a pain. And after this impending racial nerf I can't imagine how dreadful it'll be.

AcadianPaladin

I run a matriarch, heavy attack + blockade & lightning flood magsorc who mostly runs solo PvE and who prizes durability over dps and sustain. Never had sustain probs until after the nerf to her empowered ward. Now she has to recast empowered ward and matriarch heals more and sustain is a bit of a problem. That shield nerf transformed her from a strong character with modest dps and good sustain into a weaker character with modest dps and marginal sustain. I've pulled her from my 'first string'.

Undoing the shield nerf would be a good step in the right direction.

MakeMeUhSamich

Plague Doctor MagSorc builds are a thing now...think about that.

#SaltySorc

mairwen85

MakeMeUhSamich wrote: »

Plague Doctor MagSorc builds are a thing now...think about that.

#SaltySorc

#doesntunderstandhowhashtagswork

ezio45

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

I do hate having to set myself up for sustain for a magsorc. I think sorcerer abilities should get a decent cost reduction in class abilities. I think a 10% cost reduction across the board should help some.

Or reduce the cost of spammables like force pulse and elemental weapon.

force pulse is definitely a big part of it, problem is if they reduce for pulse it helps out other classes too. which is an ok thing but it doesnt help bring sorc up to par

mairwen85

ezio45 wrote: »

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

I do hate having to set myself up for sustain for a magsorc. I think sorcerer abilities should get a decent cost reduction in class abilities. I think a 10% cost reduction across the board should help some.

Or reduce the cost of spammables like force pulse and elemental weapon.

force pulse is definitely a big part of it, problem is if they reduce for pulse it helps out other classes too. which is an ok thing but it doesnt help bring sorc up to par

Lack of class spammable plays a big part of it... Maybe fix class passive re weapon/skill line affinity is the solution.

In fact, class passives would solve a chunk of balancing issues... Racial, class, weapon, resource preference or otherwise.

Kel

40k dps, no pet, heavy attack sorc...
https://youtu.be/_BMQva_idR0
Only time his magicka drops below 50% is at the end of the dps parse when he's spamming the execute. He's not running witchmothers, and his recovery isn't that great, yet has no issue with sustain.

But I'm sure there's still something to complain about, eh?

Why is sorc the only class that refuses to heavy attack for sustain? It's baffling...I just can't wrap my head around the logic. Put some points into tenacity, heavy attack alittle, get your magicka back.

mairwen85

Do u play that build? Think we've all seen it, possibly even tried it. Slow but hard hitting, melee to mid range... The numbers add up over time, sure, but it doesnt work in my experience in vet content when mobs are tougher and more numerous, mechanics more demanding of a fast recoverable rotation. It's a splash damage build, heavy, clench, heavy... Execute, heavy, execute, heavy - - good utility build for casual, normal content though. 50% of his rotation is heavy attacks (every other hit). The problem is not 'why do i have to heavy atrack', but the sheer dependency on it. My stam blade has to heavy once per three full rotations. See the difference?

Kel

mairwen85 wrote: »

Do u play that build? Think we've all seen it, possibly even tried it. Slow but hard hitting, melee to mid range... The numbers add up over time, sure, but it doesnt work in my experience in vet content when mobs are tougher and more numerous, mechanics more demanding of a fast recoverable rotation. It's a splash damage build, heavy, clench, heavy... Execute, heavy, execute, heavy - - good utility build for casual, normal content though.

Yes, I've played that build, and yes played it in vet trials. I've still seen similar dps numbers. Can go higher in stack and burn situations. Xynode himself runs this build in vet content on his streams. Don't let the "easy" part fool you...that's just in reference to the gear being easy to obtain.

The issue I have with these sorc posts are the ulterior motives behind them. I understand...you have to act like your class is trash in the hopes a dev will see it and implement buffs. That's why anytime an alternative or solution to a problem pops up, there's someone like you to try and stomp it out...solutions don't work with the agenda.

mairwen85

Kel wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

Do u play that build? Think we've all seen it, possibly even tried it. Slow but hard hitting, melee to mid range... The numbers add up over time, sure, but it doesnt work in my experience in vet content when mobs are tougher and more numerous, mechanics more demanding of a fast recoverable rotation. It's a splash damage build, heavy, clench, heavy... Execute, heavy, execute, heavy - - good utility build for casual, normal content though.

... you have to act like your class is trash in the hopes a dev will see it and implement buffs. That's why anytime an alternative or solution to a problem pops up, there's someone like you to try and stomp it out...solutions don't work with the agenda.

Shhh... Don't tell everybody

The illumisorcy will excommunicate us.