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Should there be a sorc sustain fix?
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Kel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The problem is not 'why do i have to heavy atrack', but the sheer dependency on it. My stam blade has to heavy once per three full rotations. See the difference?
Since you felt the need to edit after the fact, let me address this after.
Yes, there are many differences. The obvious one is class. The other is your damage pool.
But the biggest one is possibly the gear. What gear are you running on this stamblade? Bone Pirate, by chance? If so, I'd ask why you'd build stamblade for sustain while at the same time complaining about the necessity of having to build sorc for sustain. I play stamblade, I actually have a mag/stam of every class. Stamblade doesn't just automatically have sustain unless you build for it...you don't just have it.
Same is true for sorc..or any other class for that matter.
I know..we all got spoiled at the beginning of Summerset...could build for max damage while being super tanky and have sustain for days. But, those days are gone.
Sorc is what it is, and the combat team seems happy with sorc in its current state. No amount of forum posts are going to change that. If anything, it seems to make them dig in thier heals more.
By all means, keep bringing up issues and ideas, but can we at least stop pretending there are solutions out there and attacking eachother (in a general sense, not directed at you personally) when another sorc says they found something that actually works?
Edited by Kel on December 15, 2018 11:09AM1 -
Rebirthment✭✭✭✭Agreed. Sorc sustain definitely needs a buff since it's a real pain when you have to either rely on orbs, shards, equilibrium etc, or go with a heavy attack build that sacrifices dps just to be able to at least sustain decently.1 -
Jamdarius✭✭✭✭✭As 2 of my friends whos mains are/were and will always be non pet sorcs quit due to nerfs and having sustain issues I assume ye sorc needs to be better at sustain. Same for my mag DK tbh ... whip nerf kinda feels awful.3 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Netch, Rune, Siphoning Strikes, Collection of DK passives and Dark Exchange.
One of them is not like the rest. All of the are main sustain source for each class, but all of them but Dark Exchange are used in PVE and worth using in PVE.
I think in this case the thread title is right. Sorc has everything they need to sustain like others, its just rarely better tool than not using it which imo needs fix.4 -
gamerguy757✭✭✭✭✭Here’s my idea
Surge
Invoke the power of Meridia and grant yourself Major Sorcery and Brutality increasing your Weapon and Spell damage by 20%
(Morph) Power Surge
Attacks that deal critical damage heal you for 1500. This can happen once every 1s.
(Morph) Energy Surge
Attacks that deal critical damage restore 300 Magicka or Stamina, whichever is higher.
5 -
GreenhaloX✭✭✭✭✭
✭They NEED to bring the old ward back and the old magician. Up yours, sorc haters.. Ha ha3 -
royo✭✭✭Make frags return their mag cost on impact and buff the second explosion of curse by 40 percent.1
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mikemacon✭✭✭✭✭40k dps, no pet, heavy attack sorc...
https://youtu.be/_BMQva_idR0
Only time his magicka drops below 50% is at the end of the dps parse when he's spamming the execute. He's not running witchmothers, and his recovery isn't that great, yet has no issue with sustain.
But I'm sure there's still something to complain about, eh?
Why is sorc the only class that refuses to heavy attack for sustain? It's baffling...I just can't wrap my head around the logic. Put some points into tenacity, heavy attack alittle, get your magicka back.
Yep.
I’ve run Xy’s Easy Sorc build for so long I can’t even remember the dark days when I was a petsorc.
Sustain isn’t a problem, and yes, vet content is also no problem.
YMMV.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯1 -
Katahdin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sustain is a real pain on every class except Stam warden.
Welcome to the clubBeta tester November 20131 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭gamerguy757 wrote: »Here’s my idea
Surge
Invoke the power of Meridia and grant yourself Major Sorcery and Brutality increasing your Weapon and Spell damage by 20%
(Morph) Power Surge
Attacks that deal critical damage heal you for 1500. This can happen once every 1s.
(Morph) Energy Surge
Attacks that deal critical damage restore 300 Magicka or Stamina, whichever is higher.
lol, no.0 -
carlos424✭✭✭✭✭40k dps, no pet, heavy attack sorc...https://youtu.be/_BMQva_idR0
Only time his magicka drops below 50% is at the end of the dps parse when he's spamming the execute. He's not running witchmothers, and his recovery isn't that great, yet has no issue with sustain.
But I'm sure there's still something to complain about, eh?
Why is sorc the only class that refuses to heavy attack for sustain? It's baffling...I just can't wrap my head around the logic. Put some points into tenacity, heavy attack alittle, get your magicka back.
Thats nice and ..... adequate, I guess. Here’s the problem. You have templars, stamwardens, nightblades and dk’s all hitting 50K+ on 3 mil. The gap is really too far apart for magsorcs. Anybody can heavy attack all day and sustain but light attacks are where the damage is.
0 -
Delsanab14_ESO✭✭✭✭Judas Helviaryn wrote: »Judas Helviaryn wrote: »Heavy attack build. 42k self buffed 6m. Not the best, but good enough for me.
by heavy attack you mean pet sorc.
non pet sorc massively needs a sustain buff
No, buddy. Not a petsorc. I run one scamp, no twilight, no curse.
If you want to call that your typical petsorc, you'd just be emphasizing your inexperience.
Alcast actually gives an option for a single pet sorc though he does use daedric curse / prey.Account: @Delsana
FREE CRAFTING (NA PC) SIDENOTE: Hel'phaer is a Grand Master Crafter with almost every motif (excluding Buoyant, Meridian, Coldsnap, Grim Harlequin, Tsaesci, Pellitine, and Elder Argonian because can't afford it) and will craft attractive quality and visually appealing training gear or combat sets for those interested. FREE gear for players below CP 160 (equivalent level of 210), and paid gear in some form from those CP 160 or higher.0 -
LittlePinkDot✭✭✭✭✭I think ZOS made it pretty clear with last patch's changes that in their vision sorc is supposed to be a pet class and run at least one pet. Non-pet sorc is just a weaker magblade. Why don't you go play magblade/magplar for non-pet build?
Well than can they give us a damn class change token?0 -
Odnoc✭✭✭✭I think ZOS made it pretty clear with last patch's changes that in their vision sorc is supposed to be a pet class and run at least one pet. Non-pet sorc is just a weaker magblade. Why don't you go play magblade/magplar for non-pet build?
Because some of us don't like alts? Many of us prefer not to grind out our achievements multiple times? A log of reasons.2 -
Delsanab14_ESO✭✭✭✭Judas Helviaryn wrote: »Judas Helviaryn wrote: »Heavy attack build. 42k self buffed 6m. Not the best, but good enough for me.
by heavy attack you mean pet sorc.
non pet sorc massively needs a sustain buff
No, buddy. Not a petsorc. I run one scamp, no twilight, no curse.
If you want to call that your typical petsorc, you'd just be emphasizing your inexperience.
Alcast actually gives an option for a single pet sorc though he does use daedric curse / prey.Mettaricana wrote: »
You walk around with a giant lightning aura everywhere. You draw all the attention.Account: @Delsana
FREE CRAFTING (NA PC) SIDENOTE: Hel'phaer is a Grand Master Crafter with almost every motif (excluding Buoyant, Meridian, Coldsnap, Grim Harlequin, Tsaesci, Pellitine, and Elder Argonian because can't afford it) and will craft attractive quality and visually appealing training gear or combat sets for those interested. FREE gear for players below CP 160 (equivalent level of 210), and paid gear in some form from those CP 160 or higher.0 -
Kel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭40k dps, no pet, heavy attack sorc...https://youtu.be/_BMQva_idR0
Only time his magicka drops below 50% is at the end of the dps parse when he's spamming the execute. He's not running witchmothers, and his recovery isn't that great, yet has no issue with sustain.
But I'm sure there's still something to complain about, eh?
Why is sorc the only class that refuses to heavy attack for sustain? It's baffling...I just can't wrap my head around the logic. Put some points into tenacity, heavy attack alittle, get your magicka back.
Thats nice and ..... adequate, I guess. Here’s the problem. You have templars, stamwardens, nightblades and dk’s all hitting 50K+ on 3 mil. The gap is really too far apart for magsorcs. Anybody can heavy attack all day and sustain but light attacks are where the damage is.
I'll take 40k with endless sustain rather that trying to hit 50k and always be empty.
This post isn't about dps in the first place, but about sustain. Plus, why list other classes when this is about sorcs? Any sorcs builds out there hitting 50+k without a pet? That's all good for those classes, but that wasn't the issue...no amount of moving the goal post changes the issue of sustain. You can't have everything...you have to work with what you have.Edited by Kel on December 16, 2018 10:12AM0 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@kel, I don't think it's acceptible that the primary magicka dps class at conception is outperformed by classes secondarily designed for dps. There is a huge flaw in that implementation. Bringing in other classes for comparison hilights that disparity... They can hit higher numbers because they don't suffer the same sustain issues (don't have the same weight of sacrifice for decent sustain), they are playable in the way that the game mechanics are designed for, with more skills tuned for light weaving, and the devs moving the game more and more in that direction. Sorcs forced to play a heavy rotation for pure splash, discounting the bulk of class skills, focus on weapon passive dots, heaving heavies instead of actual skills is counter to design, counter to common play, counter to recognised mechanics - - its a workaround, not a solution. Does it work, yes, but you are not actually playing sorc, you're running a shallow weapon build with a sorcs jacket on.
All credit to xynode for a working, usable, accessible and playable build, but it really proves the point that sorc is so far down the hill at this point in sustain, and the side effect of low dps.Edited by mairwen85 on December 16, 2018 12:42PM4 -
carlos424✭✭✭✭✭40k dps, no pet, heavy attack sorc...https://youtu.be/_BMQva_idR0
Only time his magicka drops below 50% is at the end of the dps parse when he's spamming the execute. He's not running witchmothers, and his recovery isn't that great, yet has no issue with sustain.
But I'm sure there's still something to complain about, eh?
Why is sorc the only class that refuses to heavy attack for sustain? It's baffling...I just can't wrap my head around the logic. Put some points into tenacity, heavy attack alittle, get your magicka back.
Thats nice and ..... adequate, I guess. Here’s the problem. You have templars, stamwardens, nightblades and dk’s all hitting 50K+ on 3 mil. The gap is really too far apart for magsorcs. Anybody can heavy attack all day and sustain but light attacks are where the damage is.
I'll take 40k with endless sustain rather that trying to hit 50k and always be empty.
This post isn't about dps in the first place, but about sustain. Plus, why list other classes when this is about sorcs? Any sorcs builds out there hitting 50+k without a pet? That's all good for those classes, but that wasn't the issue...no amount of moving the goal post changes the issue of sustain. You can't have everything...you have to work with what you have.
The post is about whether or not magsorcs need a sustain boost. The answer is yes. Heavy attacks are not the answer. Every class has access to heavy attacks. By using the “heavy attack” logic there would be no sustain issue in the game. Sustain issue solved. Everybody just keep heavy attacking. I hit 50K with magplar using absorb magicka glyph and clockwork citrus. That, plus channeled focus and I sustain easily. Magsorc needs a channeled-focus type class skill. Lightning form seems the logical choice. Remove the crappy 1k shock damage and add magicka return. Or better yet remove the crappy 4 sec major expedition (which was already nerfed). Would make this skill very similar to channeled focus.Edited by carlos424 on December 16, 2018 12:53PM5 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Guys You're just not enlightened enough to follow ZoS brilliant ideas and to use overload as new great sustain tool...0 -
carlos424✭✭✭✭✭@carlos424 that would certainly justify the cost.
Ya, I wasnt even looking at the cost. Wow. Channeled focus is like 1K magicka and gives same resistances (actually better if you stand in it) and 480 magicka return/sec. The only reason to really use lightning form now is for the resistances, since shield nerf. Just another illustration of how the sorc has been broken.0 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@carlos424 I think cost is big part of the problem overall. Comparatively high vs return, be that damage or aid/sustain.
Upping damage would be a buff, and cause calls for nerfs. Lowering cost would be a buff, leading to calls for nerfs. Adding a class base rate of sustain would be a buff... The class needs fixing in a way that doesn't cause it to excel, just be on par. Therein lies the quandary... Its a precision job that requires a clear design goal. Are zos up to the task?Edited by mairwen85 on December 16, 2018 1:47PM0 -
Zer0oo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wow, is sorc really so gimped that even the forum nb do not jump out and argue the opposite?
#nerfsorcs
- Update 23Ice Furnace: This item set now grants Spell Damage, rather than Weapon Damage for the 4 piece bonus2
