Pets and werewolves in bg

IlCanis_LupuslI

Just accept theres always "a bigger fish in the ocean".

Aurielle

To those of you claiming that pet targeting issues are a “L2P” issue, [edit]. In BGs, you could find yourself fighting an entire premade of pack leader WWs or pet sorcs. I’ve been in matches where there have literally been 15-20 pets on the screen at one time. Pet builds are generally utilized by[edit] players who rely on targeting issues to defend themselves and get kills. You are NOT targeting anyone with tab target on console when there are 15-20 pets in the way (especially not if you’ve had to remap your weapon swap to R3). And anyway, tab targeting is only a soft target that makes it easier to see the player — it is still possible for a player to LOS behind a pet while tab targeted. Tab targeting works differently in ESO than in other MMOs that don’t use reticules for targeting.

[edited for non-constructive commentary]

IlCanis_LupuslI

Aurielle wrote: »

To those of you claiming that pet targeting issues are a “L2P” issue, [edit]. In BGs, you could find yourself fighting an entire premade of pack leader WWs or pet sorcs. I’ve been in matches where there have literally been 15-20 pets on the screen at one time. Pet builds are generally utilized by [edit] players who rely on targeting issues to defend themselves and get kills. You are NOT targeting anyone with tab target on console when there are 15-20 pets in the way (especially not if you’ve had to remap your weapon swap to R3). And anyway, tab targeting is only a soft target that makes it easier to see the player — it is still possible for a player to LOS behind a pet while tab targeted. Tab targeting works differently in ESO than in other MMOs that don’t use reticules for targeting.

If your fighting a premade with a pug group your screwed anyway. Ever tried fighting 4 mag dks all with zaan cerulions legacy and overwhelming? Or a 4 man stamden spin2win group?All communicating per microphone and supporting each other? Ive seen it, only difference was i wasnt stupid enough to even try to fight that with a pug group. Its also the main reason I stopped BG´s.
And aiming is L2P issue, its not easy, but wih a bit of experience quite doable. yes thats how i fight petsorcs quite easy. Of course only if your a melee build and get close. If your a range build granted that could be difficult but as a melee there´s no excuse for personal lack of experience while tab targeting.
So a person beating you is garbage cause hes on a carry build? Or is it you whos refusing tto adapt and learning how to counter those builds? There are way more cancerous groups in BGS , which in itself is infested by procsets and premade groups. And THATS the actuall problem in BGS. Premades vs pug groups. I tried it with 3 buddies we weren´t even specced for group play and each one of us had a 25:0 minimum K.D. ratio without any effort. Superior coordination and supporting each other is unbeatable for a pug group. btw just to get the facts correct, a 4 man petsorc group has up to 16 pets, of that 8 are only temporary available so only 8 pets permmanently active, a 4 man packleader group has 8 pets. And btw there´s a thing called aoe-Attacks where you can clean out all those pets in seconds since they are mostly squishy af. Aperrently some players dont know about that...

ZOS_RogerJ

Just a friendly reminder to keep the thread on-topic, constructive, and civil. It’s okay and very normal to disagree with others, and even to debate, but provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community.

Aurielle

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

To those of you claiming that pet targeting issues are a “L2P” issue, [edit]. In BGs, you could find yourself fighting an entire premade of pack leader WWs or pet sorcs. I’ve been in matches where there have literally been 15-20 pets on the screen at one time. Pet builds are generally utilized by [edit] players who rely on targeting issues to defend themselves and get kills. You are NOT targeting anyone with tab target on console when there are 15-20 pets in the way (especially not if you’ve had to remap your weapon swap to R3). And anyway, tab targeting is only a soft target that makes it easier to see the player — it is still possible for a player to LOS behind a pet while tab targeted. Tab targeting works differently in ESO than in other MMOs that don’t use reticules for targeting.

If your fighting a premade with a pug group your screwed anyway. Ever tried fighting 4 mag dks all with zaan cerulions legacy and overwhelming? Or a 4 man stamden spin2win group?All communicating per microphone and supporting each other? Ive seen it, only difference was i wasnt stupid enough to even try to fight that with a pug group. Its also the main reason I stopped BG´s.
And aiming is L2P issue, its not easy, but wih a bit of experience quite doable. yes thats how i fight petsorcs quite easy. Of course only if your a melee build and get close. If your a range build granted that could be difficult but as a melee there´s no excuse for personal lack of experience while tab targeting.
So a person beating you is garbage cause hes on a carry build? Or is it you whos refusing tto adapt and learning how to counter those builds? There are way more cancerous groups in BGS , which in itself is infested by procsets and premade groups. And THATS the actuall problem in BGS. Premades vs pug groups. I tried it with 3 buddies we weren´t even specced for group play and each one of us had a 25:0 minimum K.D. ratio without any effort. Superior coordination and supporting each other is unbeatable for a pug group. btw just to get the facts correct, a 4 man petsorc group has up to 16 pets, of that 8 are only temporary available so only 8 pets permmanently active, a 4 man packleader group has 8 pets. And btw there´s a thing called aoe-Attacks where you can clean out all those pets in seconds since they are mostly squishy af. Aperrently some players dont know about that...

Not even worth the effort to respond to you. Yes, premades vs randoms is a problem, but to suggest that there’s nothing wrong with pet targeting is...well, I’ll keep it to myself, since I’ve been edited once already.

P.S. I’m well-aware how many pets max one group can have. You’re aware that this is a GvGvG mode, right? And that multiple groups can have pet builds? It is not at all uncommon for there to be upwards of 20 pets on the screen at once with multiple pet builds in the match, so please don’t tell me to L2Count as well.

Aurielle

ZOS_RogerJ wrote: »

Just a friendly reminder to keep the thread on-topic, constructive, and civil. It’s okay and very normal to disagree with others, and even to debate, but provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community.

I would argue that dismissing legitimate complaints with “L2P” is mocking, baiting, and inciting as well, but maybe that’s just me.

Iskiab

So easy to counter, I’m hoping more people try this. Fought against a troll group of WWs and sorcs summoning pets. Just use all your abilities with increased effects the more targets there are.

Brawler, proximity detonation, siphon.

The people doing this in under 50 BGs before people get all the skills they require to pvp effectively should be ashamed.

I’m noticing people are going to extremes with their specs these days. It’s dumb, but I think people need to be able to switch up specs if they respawn to counter the extreme specs I keep seeing.

Aurielle

Iskiab wrote: »

So easy to counter, I’m hoping more people try this. Fought against a troll group of WWs and sorcs summoning pets. Just use all your abilities with increased effects the more targets there are.

Brawler, proximity detonation, siphon.

The people doing this in under 50 BGs before people get all the skills they require to pvp effectively should be ashamed.

I’m noticing people are going to extremes with their specs these days. It’s dumb, but I think people need to be able to switch up specs if they respawn to counter the extreme specs I keep seeing.

It’s not always possible to respec in the middle of a BG. If there’s fighting near your respawn point, you’re in combat, and you can’t swap skills out. Then there’s the in combat bug, which can plague you for half a match. Then, take into consideration the fact that swapping out skills without addons is time consuming. Gear might need to be swapped out too, if you’re optimized for single target burst (as many PVPers are).

A better solution would be for the devs to rework pet targeting in PVP. It’s clear that pet builds abuse targeting issues to gain an advantage over non-pet builds, especially in pet build-stacked premades. Damaging a pet in a PVP zone should also damage the player controlling the pet by, say, 25% of the damage done. This would discourage pet stacking and provide some balance, without making pet builds completely useless.

LordTareq

Maybe instead make pets just a lot more vulnerable in PvP. I tried fighting a warden's bear at some point (I was around a corner hiding and and it somehow had followed me through cloak and started attacking me) and I could barely scratch it, ridiculous. Even the small sorc imps take considerable effort to burst down.

killimandrosb16_ESO

Canis lupus plays a packleader ww. Of course he doesnt want an easier tab targeting system since it would reduce his own effectiveness...
Make tab targeting prioritize players first, then if you continue to cycle, you get to pets, problem solved.

AzureButterfly

Magsorc main chiming in:

The problem isn't just that 'pets are OP' - it's that there's a fundamental problem with the way the game handles them: pets will tether back to their caster if they get too far away. When the pets tether, they (almost always) pop back to full health. And to make matters worse, both werewolves and sorcs are mobility-based playstyles, who'll be using Bolt Escape / Pounce to jump around the map, so this happens all the time.

I think ZOS intended it to be that fighting petsorcs is a strategic choice, where you either kill the pets so the sorc has to cast them again, or kill the sorc to kill the pets too, while putting yourself under more pressure from the pets' DPSing you. But in practice, there's no way to kill either the sorcs or their pets. If you focus the pets, the sorc teleports away, tethering the pets to their side and resetting them back to full health. If you try to focus the sorc, the pets jump in front of them and eat the damage - and then the sorc teleports away and the pets tether back to full health.

In addition to the "randomly heals self to full" thing they've got going on, pets also have a tendency to tether back to their sorc and zap you out of nowhere. It causes situations where you're fighting a sorc, Volatile Familiar suddenly pops up next to you and releases its stun-zap, you get CC'd and die. Or, Twilight Matriarch poofs behind you, kicks you and/or zaps you, and you die. There's no good counter to pets poofing because there's no telegraphing the attack. They just jump out and shiv you.

Rather than teleporting, I wish that pets would enter a state where, if they were too far from their sorc/ww, they'd gain CC immunity and a speed boost and sprint back over to their owner, rather than teleporting. That way, they'd actually be killable and they wouldn't suddenly pop out and act as a meatshield when you least expect it.

bantad87

Aurielle wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

Werewolves only seem to be an issue in sub-50 where they have overtuned self-sustain and decent damage seemingly without even having the gear to back it up. At max level where other players can expect to be geared, they're no longer overtuned compared to their opponents.

The issue is not that werewolves are “OP”; the issue is that multiple werewolves with pets out make targeting a nightmare. So many direwolves have eaten single target ultimates not intended for them... SO MANY.

As I’ve said in another thread: PVP stands for “player versus player”, not “player versus pet.”

Only noobs use the *** pack leader morph. Berserker is wayyyyyyy better.