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3 5% Health Shield - Fragmented Shield?
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WhyMustItBe✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sounds like you dont know what youre talking about.
So, what are you doing to mitigate damage damage for youre group as a tank in vet trials?
Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they don't know what they are talking about.
What I do is what pretty much any tank does: EXECUTE MECHANICS, taunt the boss and priority dangerous mobs, bash when called for, pull mobs into the trash AOE when called for, roll dodge to apply off balance, debuff with infused crusher and/or Torugs, stay alive, BLOW THE HORN, etc.
If you need to shield your group from ignoring mechanics to be a good tank then your idea of being a good tank needs an upgrade.Edited by WhyMustItBe on December 12, 2018 6:42PM1 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭WhyMustItBe wrote: »Sounds like you dont know what youre talking about.
So, what are you doing to mitigate damage damage for youre group as a tank in vet trials?
Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they don't know what they are talking about.
What I do is what pretty much any tank does: EXECUTE MECHANICS, taunt the boss and priority dangerous mobs, bash when called for, pull mobs into the trash AOE when called for, roll dodge to apply off balance, debuff with infused crusher and/or Torugs, stay alive, BLOW THE HORN, etc.
If you need to shield your group from ignoring mechanics to be a good tank then your idea of being a good tank needs an upgrade.
1. Youre not mitigating any damage for youre group (other than taunting. There is aoe damage and mechanics)
2. Executing Mechanics as you say is everyones job. Not just tank.
3. You take youre own advice with youre 1st statement.
4. You assume I was addressing tanks only. You are in error.
5. None of the guilds I am in stand in red zones during content. So, I dont know what youre talking about there either. Maybe u have experienced such. I dont pretend to know youre experiences as you do otherwise.
Edited by Lab3360 on December 12, 2018 6:55PM0 -
WhyMustItBe✭✭✭✭✭
✭Something else to consider is the affect builds like this have on the game, both difficulty and diversity.
Imagine they left this in. Since it trivilizes mechanics and allows people to ignore them, when the devs make new content they will have to make everything more and more difficult so that people running these builds still have some sort of challenge.
What this leads to pretty soon is content getting more and more difficult for anyone NOT running the cheese build, which leads pretty much to "DK tank cheese build or go home" which is not the direction the devs (nor most people who enjoy the game) want to see things go.
The devs want ANY class to bring something to each role, so that any class can tank or heal or DPS and be more or less viable bringing something unique to the group at the same time.
Making content more and more difficult for everyone to compensate for a cheesy OP mechanic and pigeon holing every tank into rolling a DK bloat shield cheese build is not a very smart direction for the game. Better to remove the one OP cheese build so that any class is wanted and build diversity can be more fun and rewarding.0 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭WhyMustItBe wrote: »Something else to consider is the affect builds like this have on the game, both difficulty and diversity.
Imagine they left this in. Since it trivilizes mechanics and allows people to ignore them, when the devs make new content they will have to make everything more and more difficult so that people running these builds still have some sort of challenge.
What this leads to pretty soon is content getting more and more difficult for anyone NOT running the cheese build, which leads pretty much to "DK tank cheese build or go home" which is not the direction the devs (nor most people who enjoy the game) want to see things go.
The devs want ANY class to bring something to each role, so that any class can tank or heal or DPS and be more or less viable bringing something unique to the group at the same time.
Making content more and more difficult for everyone to compensate for a cheesy OP mechanic and pigeon holing every tank into rolling a DK bloat shield cheese build is not a very smart direction for the game. Better to remove the one OP cheese build so that any class is wanted and build diversity can be more fun and rewarding.
Explain to me how removing class defining skills or watering it down will create diversity.0 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭WhyMustItBe wrote: »
Nice excuse. You cant articulate it, because you know what you said made no sense.
Plus, you dont even know how to mitigate damage for youre group. Not one single mitigation skill or element in youre tool kit0 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭You cant have diversity by removal.
It has the exact opposite effect.
Goes against the very nature of diversity.
Edited by Lab3360 on December 12, 2018 7:09PM0 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭But to make things clear....I was not addressing tanking specifically.
I was more or less addressing DK Mitigating Healers who used the skill to help decrease damage considering DK dont have multiple allie heals like templar or warden or sorcs.
The shield help to decrease damage in just enough time for the healer to locate allies and direct a heal at them if outnof range for Cauterize.
Because of the changes, the build diversity which was there is no longer for Mitogating DK Healers0 -
MilwaukeeScott✭✭✭✭✭Yes. Do you?
With Murkmire, Shields are capped at %50 of your health. On a Pet Sorc, Harness Magicka will hit cap without Bastion.
If your magicka is at least 20% higher than your health [20k health, 24k magicka], then you'll hit cap with Hardened Ward or Dampen Magic.
If your magicka is at least 15% higher than your health [20k health, 23k magicka], then you'll hit cap with Conjured Ward, Empowered Ward, Annulment, or Harness Magicka.
Bastion in most cases is useless. You'd need to be set up where your magicka and health are roughly the same before Bastion would start to have any noticeable effect.
PS4NA
All I see is hate and rage from people who don't understand how to.....0 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭Cp on my DK Healer is stll set up from previous patch. Alt character and have not updated and probably wont nowEdited by Lab3360 on December 12, 2018 8:45PM0
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Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭MilwaukeeScott wrote: »Yes. Do you?
With Murkmire, Shields are capped at %50 of your health. On a Pet Sorc, Harness Magicka will hit cap without Bastion.
If your magicka is at least 20% higher than your health [20k health, 24k magicka], then you'll hit cap with Hardened Ward or Dampen Magic.
If your magicka is at least 15% higher than your health [20k health, 23k magicka], then you'll hit cap with Conjured Ward, Empowered Ward, Annulment, or Harness Magicka.
Bastion in most cases is useless. You'd need to be set up where your magicka and health are roughly the same before Bastion would start to have any noticeable effect.
AgreeEdited by Lab3360 on December 12, 2018 8:52PM0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Part of the recent shield nerfs were also done cause of the same reason. Just like the morrowind sustain nerfs, shields were overperforming in BOTH PvP and PvE.
I'm sick of this *** ''PvP causes all nerfs'' mentality , It always comes from the type of players that know very little about the game. The PvP/PvE balance are the two sides of the same coin. Both effect each other.Edited by Ragnarock41 on December 12, 2018 9:12PM0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Fragmented shield is not really used for the ward, it is for the extra duration on major mending.
The ability cost should also reflect that. I think they should remove the shield on allies for lower cost.
you get 5.5 seconds of major mending. more then justifies the cost.
Yeah, like how wardens get it for completely free.
Its the minor brutality proc and 990 stamina return that makes this worth slotting-combined with the mending-(which comes from the passives and applies to every ability in the earthen heart tree) And also the fact that there is no better alternative for stamina Dk as far as healing goes.
I don't think the major mending is by itself is weak, but I don't see how mending by itself can have a cost of 4k magicka, if wardens are going to have it for free.
The ability right now gives a shield thats so tiny I can't even call it a shield, its more like a microshield. And at that point why even have it there? Just rework it for something more fun.. Not to mention this microshield has the issue of overwriting the much more beefier igneous shield, if anyone else is using it. Because you can only one obsidian shield on people at the same time, they don't stack.
I don't think most of the people in here who like the change are actually pve content participants.
They like the change because it removes a 10k + shield which makes it easier to elimimate the opponent.
The problem.is it effected pve.
I think you are severely overestimating the shield in PvP.
10K shield in PvP is typically what you see on a sorcerer with hardened ward. NOT on a mDK with fragmented shield. That's more in the 2K range, if that.
Do yourself a favor and get this "PvP-ers got this nerfed" idea out of your head. They never cared about the shield. It's a non-factor. The ability is only used for the mending/stam return.
Youre kidding me right. The shield changes were due to pvpers. You would have to have to have youre head in the sand or something not to know that. What are you talking about.
No one in pve wanted these changes.
Pvpers were complaining about sorcs shield stacking which triggered this whole mess.
I could not imagine anyone in pve saying "yeah guys, we have too much shield, lets ask the devs to nerf shields."
Actually devs themselves said that shields nerfs were also done due to healers in PvE not feeling needed because DDs especially magicka ones could simply use shields and avoid taking dmg so unless You're above developers Your words are just unjustified lies coming from lack of actual knowledge about the topic.Edited by Juhasow on December 12, 2018 9:15PM0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WhyMustItBe wrote: »No one in pve wanted these changes.
I am a PVE tank and I DID want this change.
Having a tank spam OP group shields so the DPS could stand in stupid ignoring mechanics was a lazy crutch and toxic playstyle to be training people to think was OK somehow.
We don't have things like roll dodge, block, bash, etc. in this game just so lazy DPS can ignore it completely and rely on a cheezy OP shield spam mechanics from the tank.
Which is exactly what the developers said about it, if you read my above post.
Sounds like complaining about having to get good instead of relying on cheese.
Sounds like you dont know what youre talking about.
So, what are you doing to mitigate damage damage for youre group as a tank in vet trials?
For example keeping mobs on me (taunts) , lowering enemies dmg by applying debuffs (heroic slash , choking talons etc) , increasing allies health (ebon) , increasing allies resistances (lord warden) ? List is much longer You know...Edited by Juhasow on December 12, 2018 9:15PM0 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭
For example keeping mobs on me (taunts) , lowering enemies dmg by applying debuffs (heroic slash , choking talons etc) , increasing allies health (ebon) , increasing allies resistances (lord warden) ? List is much longer You know...[/quote]
Good0 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »
Part of the recent shield nerfs were also done cause of the same reason. Just like the morrowind sustain nerfs, shields were overperforming in BOTH PvP and PvE.
I'm sick of this *** ''PvP causes all nerfs'' mentality , It always comes from the type of players that know very little about the game. The PvP/PvE balance are the two sides of the same coin. Both effect each other.
You can be sick all you want. Most of the nerfs do come from pvpers. A quick look at forums and youtube will tell you such.
Just because someone does not agree with you doesnt mean they know very little about the game. I dont pretend to know everything. Im always learning. But youre little comment seems to put you above anyone who disagrees with youre pvp mindset. I know plenty enough about the game. But Im always learning. You probably can too.Edited by Lab3360 on December 12, 2018 9:59PM0 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Fragmented shield is not really used for the ward, it is for the extra duration on major mending.
The ability cost should also reflect that. I think they should remove the shield on allies for lower cost.
you get 5.5 seconds of major mending. more then justifies the cost.
Yeah, like how wardens get it for completely free.
Its the minor brutality proc and 990 stamina return that makes this worth slotting-combined with the mending-(which comes from the passives and applies to every ability in the earthen heart tree) And also the fact that there is no better alternative for stamina Dk as far as healing goes.
I don't think the major mending is by itself is weak, but I don't see how mending by itself can have a cost of 4k magicka, if wardens are going to have it for free.
The ability right now gives a shield thats so tiny I can't even call it a shield, its more like a microshield. And at that point why even have it there? Just rework it for something more fun.. Not to mention this microshield has the issue of overwriting the much more beefier igneous shield, if anyone else is using it. Because you can only one obsidian shield on people at the same time, they don't stack.
I don't think most of the people in here who like the change are actually pve content participants.
They like the change because it removes a 10k + shield which makes it easier to elimimate the opponent.
The problem.is it effected pve.
I think you are severely overestimating the shield in PvP.
10K shield in PvP is typically what you see on a sorcerer with hardened ward. NOT on a mDK with fragmented shield. That's more in the 2K range, if that.
Do yourself a favor and get this "PvP-ers got this nerfed" idea out of your head. They never cared about the shield. It's a non-factor. The ability is only used for the mending/stam return.
Youre kidding me right. The shield changes were due to pvpers. You would have to have to have youre head in the sand or something not to know that. What are you talking about.
No one in pve wanted these changes.
Pvpers were complaining about sorcs shield stacking which triggered this whole mess.
I could not imagine anyone in pve saying "yeah guys, we have too much shield, lets ask the devs to nerf shields."
Actually devs themselves said that shields nerfs were also done due to healers in PvE not feeling needed because DDs especially magicka ones could simply use shields and avoid taking dmg so unless You're above developers Your words are just unjustified lies coming from lack of actual knowledge about the topic.
That may very well be true. Tough if that was the fix, it didnt help. I see peoole still going into vet dungeons with 3 dps and a tank even with this patch.0 -
Maura_Neysa✭✭✭✭✭If they aren't going to fix the Igneous/Fragmented over right, they should just make Fragmented and Igneous work oppositely.
Always scale on the Health of the person its applied too, Igneous is 150% on self, Fragmented is 150% on alleys.
But true is, this just a buff skill, nothing more.Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #NerfmireStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's CoadjutorDragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
MajorShehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,Warden 2x Bow DPSStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,Others
PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt
Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.0 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭Maura_Neysa wrote: »If they aren't going to fix the Igneous/Fragmented over right, they should just make Fragmented and Igneous work oppositely.
Always scale on the Health of the person its applied too, Igneous is 150% on self, Fragmented is 150% on alleys.
But true is, this just a buff skill, nothing more.
Right. I mean since when do tanks need major mending?0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »
Part of the recent shield nerfs were also done cause of the same reason. Just like the morrowind sustain nerfs, shields were overperforming in BOTH PvP and PvE.
I'm sick of this *** ''PvP causes all nerfs'' mentality , It always comes from the type of players that know very little about the game. The PvP/PvE balance are the two sides of the same coin. Both effect each other.
You can be sick all you want. Most of the nerfs do come from pvpers. A quick look at forums and youtube will tell you such.
Just because someone does not agree with you doesnt mean they know very little about the game. I dont pretend to know everything. Im always learning. But youre little comment seems to put you above anyone who disagrees with youre pvp mindset. I know plenty enough about the game. But Im always learning. You probably can too.
what your little comment ignores is the fact that this game is balanced based on PvE first, PvP later. Not the opposite way. Just like how the majority of the new content is PvE based. Not that I disagree with the devs on that fact, I'm just suprised that you can be soo ignorant despite the fact you've been proven wrong on this thread so many times already.
Edited by Ragnarock41 on December 12, 2018 10:52PM0 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »
Part of the recent shield nerfs were also done cause of the same reason. Just like the morrowind sustain nerfs, shields were overperforming in BOTH PvP and PvE.
I'm sick of this *** ''PvP causes all nerfs'' mentality , It always comes from the type of players that know very little about the game. The PvP/PvE balance are the two sides of the same coin. Both effect each other.
You can be sick all you want. Most of the nerfs do come from pvpers. A quick look at forums and youtube will tell you such.
Just because someone does not agree with you doesnt mean they know very little about the game. I dont pretend to know everything. Im always learning. But youre little comment seems to put you above anyone who disagrees with youre pvp mindset. I know plenty enough about the game. But Im always learning. You probably can too.
what your little comment ignores is the fact that this game is balanced based on PvE first, PvP later. Not the opposite way. Just like how the majority of the new content is PvE based.
The content has always been pvp based 1st You act like thats new concept because of new content. Are you just now figuring that out? Nevertheless, the changes to combat are pvp influence mostly. Not the other way around. The comment didn't ignore anything that was important. Just the little stuff.
Edited by Lab3360 on December 12, 2018 10:56PM0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »
Part of the recent shield nerfs were also done cause of the same reason. Just like the morrowind sustain nerfs, shields were overperforming in BOTH PvP and PvE.
I'm sick of this *** ''PvP causes all nerfs'' mentality , It always comes from the type of players that know very little about the game. The PvP/PvE balance are the two sides of the same coin. Both effect each other.
You can be sick all you want. Most of the nerfs do come from pvpers. A quick look at forums and youtube will tell you such.
Just because someone does not agree with you doesnt mean they know very little about the game. I dont pretend to know everything. Im always learning. But youre little comment seems to put you above anyone who disagrees with youre pvp mindset. I know plenty enough about the game. But Im always learning. You probably can too.
what your little comment ignores is the fact that this game is balanced based on PvE first, PvP later. Not the opposite way. Just like how the majority of the new content is PvE based.
The content has always been pvp based 1st You act like thats new concept because of new content. But the changes to combat are pvp influence mostly. Not the other way around. The greater comment didnt ignore anything that was important.
PvP was the end game when this game was released. That fact quickly changed. This is why the only PvP related DLC is imperial city. Oh but sure, please tell me more of your tales about how we PvPers ruined your day.Edited by Ragnarock41 on December 12, 2018 10:56PM0 -
MalagenR✭✭✭✭✭LOL @ Everyone assuming ZOS actually thought out the impact of their shield nerf on anything other than Sorcs.
Pro-tip - they literally didn't test anything, some guy in a room came up with some bs and they just coded it and implemented it, GG.1 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »
Part of the recent shield nerfs were also done cause of the same reason. Just like the morrowind sustain nerfs, shields were overperforming in BOTH PvP and PvE.
I'm sick of this *** ''PvP causes all nerfs'' mentality , It always comes from the type of players that know very little about the game. The PvP/PvE balance are the two sides of the same coin. Both effect each other.
You can be sick all you want. Most of the nerfs do come from pvpers. A quick look at forums and youtube will tell you such.
Just because someone does not agree with you doesnt mean they know very little about the game. I dont pretend to know everything. Im always learning. But youre little comment seems to put you above anyone who disagrees with youre pvp mindset. I know plenty enough about the game. But Im always learning. You probably can too.
what your little comment ignores is the fact that this game is balanced based on PvE first, PvP later. Not the opposite way. Just like how the majority of the new content is PvE based.
The content has always been pvp based 1st You act like thats new concept because of new content. But the changes to combat are pvp influence mostly. Not the other way around. The greater comment didnt ignore anything that was important.
PvP was the end game when this game was released. That fact quickly changed. This is why the only PvP related DLC is imperial city. Oh but sure, please tell me more of your tales about how we PvPers ruined your day.
Thats just flat out false. I have played this game since launch. And youre just saying anything now. Pvp has never been end game. Its an option to go into from pve.
Go ahead and keep making things up buddyEdited by Lab3360 on December 12, 2018 11:10PM0 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭LOL @ Everyone assuming ZOS actually thought out the impact of their shield nerf on anything other than Sorcs.
Pro-tip - they literally didn't test anything, some guy in a room came up with some bs and they just coded it and implemented it, GG.
Pretty much. Its a disaster for DK Healers buildsEdited by Lab3360 on December 12, 2018 11:01PM0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭LOL @ Everyone assuming ZOS actually thought out the impact of their shield nerf on anything other than Sorcs.
Pro-tip - they literally didn't test anything, some guy in a room came up with some bs and they just coded it and implemented it, GG.
I think its more like they panicked by the magsorc outcry and decided to nerf the already very tiny fragmented shield hoping it would calm the s***storm.0 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »
Part of the recent shield nerfs were also done cause of the same reason. Just like the morrowind sustain nerfs, shields were overperforming in BOTH PvP and PvE.
I'm sick of this *** ''PvP causes all nerfs'' mentality , It always comes from the type of players that know very little about the game. The PvP/PvE balance are the two sides of the same coin. Both effect each other.
You can be sick all you want. Most of the nerfs do come from pvpers. A quick look at forums and youtube will tell you such.
Just because someone does not agree with you doesnt mean they know very little about the game. I dont pretend to know everything. Im always learning. But youre little comment seems to put you above anyone who disagrees with youre pvp mindset. I know plenty enough about the game. But Im always learning. You probably can too.
what your little comment ignores is the fact that this game is balanced based on PvE first, PvP later. Not the opposite way. Just like how the majority of the new content is PvE based.
The content has always been pvp based 1st You act like thats new concept because of new content. But the changes to combat are pvp influence mostly. Not the other way around. The greater comment didnt ignore anything that was important.
PvP was the end game when this game was released. That fact quickly changed. This is why the only PvP related DLC is imperial city. Oh but sure, please tell me more of your tales about how we PvPers ruined your day.
So, tell me. What was so end game about Imperial City. Trials have always been endgame for pve.
Please explain how pvpe Imperial City was "Ever" considered endgame for pve?Edited by Lab3360 on December 12, 2018 11:09PM0