3 5% Health Shield - Fragmented Shield?

Lab3360

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Yes but one morph increases the shield size on yourself (Igneous Shield) the other deals damage when it expires and increases the duration of Mending (Fragmented Shield)
If you are a magicka character use Annulment like everyone that isnt a sorc.

Neither frag nor igneous does not return damage

Well it use to, they probably got rid of it when they increased mendings duration.

It already had mending duration before the change.

This change hurts build diversification and mitigation provided by tanks for groups

But shields also now take into consideration your resistances.

They always have. The only differrnce is now resist is calculated 1st before shield.

This is wrong. Wards never had resistances factored in. Well built tanks have larger wards now than they had before the change.

Ward in itself is resistance.

Lab3360

Royaji wrote: »

On a 40k health (and if you are going for a shielding build this is the minimum threshold) tank with no points in Bastion Obsidian Shield will provide 3200 shield. Factor in Bastion and resistances and you will get a very solid shield for your group.

And here is a little quote from 3.0.7 patch notes
Developer Comment: Dragonknights stacking Max Health could create extremely powerful damage shields on multiple allies at the same time, making some encounters easier than intended. We've kept the damage shield strength on the casting Dragonknight the same, while making it less effective on allies.

ZOS does not want you to stack 10k shields on allies because it makes some fights trivial. We've all tried it after Summerset.

Hate to tell you this. But a 3200 point shield in a trial will help no one.

The shield is now trivial when mitigating for pve groups undoubtedly because of pvpers who need dev intervention to win

Royaji

Lab3360 wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

On a 40k health (and if you are going for a shielding build this is the minimum threshold) tank with no points in Bastion Obsidian Shield will provide 3200 shield. Factor in Bastion and resistances and you will get a very solid shield for your group.

And here is a little quote from 3.0.7 patch notes
Developer Comment: Dragonknights stacking Max Health could create extremely powerful damage shields on multiple allies at the same time, making some encounters easier than intended. We've kept the damage shield strength on the casting Dragonknight the same, while making it less effective on allies.

ZOS does not want you to stack 10k shields on allies because it makes some fights trivial. We've all tried it after Summerset.

Hate to tell you this. But a 3200 point shield in a trial will help no one.

The shield is now trivial when mitigating for pve groups undoubtedly because of pvpers who need dev intervention to win

Ah, you're just here to argue nonsense after being completely proven wrong.

Got ya, I'm out.

Lab3360

Royaji wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

On a 40k health (and if you are going for a shielding build this is the minimum threshold) tank with no points in Bastion Obsidian Shield will provide 3200 shield. Factor in Bastion and resistances and you will get a very solid shield for your group.

And here is a little quote from 3.0.7 patch notes
Developer Comment: Dragonknights stacking Max Health could create extremely powerful damage shields on multiple allies at the same time, making some encounters easier than intended. We've kept the damage shield strength on the casting Dragonknight the same, while making it less effective on allies.

ZOS does not want you to stack 10k shields on allies because it makes some fights trivial. We've all tried it after Summerset.

Hate to tell you this. But a 3200 point shield in a trial will help no one.

The shield is now trivial when mitigating for pve groups undoubtedly because of pvpers who need dev intervention to win

Ah, you're just here to argue nonsense after being completely proven wrong.

Got ya, I'm out.

Hit a nerve. Must be pvper who cried to devs

Sharee

Lab3360 wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

On a 40k health (and if you are going for a shielding build this is the minimum threshold) tank with no points in Bastion Obsidian Shield will provide 3200 shield. Factor in Bastion and resistances and you will get a very solid shield for your group.

And here is a little quote from 3.0.7 patch notes
Developer Comment: Dragonknights stacking Max Health could create extremely powerful damage shields on multiple allies at the same time, making some encounters easier than intended. We've kept the damage shield strength on the casting Dragonknight the same, while making it less effective on allies.

ZOS does not want you to stack 10k shields on allies because it makes some fights trivial. We've all tried it after Summerset.

Hate to tell you this. But a 3200 point shield in a trial will help no one.

The shield is now trivial when mitigating for pve groups undoubtedly because of pvpers who need dev intervention to win

Ah, you're just here to argue nonsense after being completely proven wrong.

Got ya, I'm out.

Hit a nerve. Must be pvper who cried to devs

I know its a popular meme to blame every game change on PvP, but i assure you, no one has ever complained about DK group shield being too strong in PvP.

Lab3360

Lab3360 wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

On a 40k health (and if you are going for a shielding build this is the minimum threshold) tank with no points in Bastion Obsidian Shield will provide 3200 shield. Factor in Bastion and resistances and you will get a very solid shield for your group.

And here is a little quote from 3.0.7 patch notes
Developer Comment: Dragonknights stacking Max Health could create extremely powerful damage shields on multiple allies at the same time, making some encounters easier than intended. We've kept the damage shield strength on the casting Dragonknight the same, while making it less effective on allies.

ZOS does not want you to stack 10k shields on allies because it makes some fights trivial. We've all tried it after Summerset.

Hate to tell you this. But a 3200 point shield in a trial will help no one.

The shield is now trivial when mitigating for pve groups undoubtedly because of pvpers who need dev intervention to win

Ah, you're just here to argue nonsense after being completely proven wrong.

Got ya, I'm out.

I would walk away like you if I was wrong.
Hit a nerve. Must be pvper who cried to devs

Now for DK Healers with mitigation builds,
Well that variant is now dead.

Really dont want to be negative here. But the amount of crying from pvpers kill sooo many different builds. The game gets more and more cookie cutter

Lab3360

No one in pve asked for such a change.

Lab3360

Sharee wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

On a 40k health (and if you are going for a shielding build this is the minimum threshold) tank with no points in Bastion Obsidian Shield will provide 3200 shield. Factor in Bastion and resistances and you will get a very solid shield for your group.

And here is a little quote from 3.0.7 patch notes
Developer Comment: Dragonknights stacking Max Health could create extremely powerful damage shields on multiple allies at the same time, making some encounters easier than intended. We've kept the damage shield strength on the casting Dragonknight the same, while making it less effective on allies.

ZOS does not want you to stack 10k shields on allies because it makes some fights trivial. We've all tried it after Summerset.

Hate to tell you this. But a 3200 point shield in a trial will help no one.

The shield is now trivial when mitigating for pve groups undoubtedly because of pvpers who need dev intervention to win

Ah, you're just here to argue nonsense after being completely proven wrong.

Got ya, I'm out.

Hit a nerve. Must be pvper who cried to devs

I know its a popular meme to blame every game change on PvP, but i assure you, no one has ever complained about DK group shield being too strong in PvP.

I can assure you no one asked for it in pve. I mean who wants to be protected from bosses hitting for 100k damage.

Oh wait. Nerf tank mitigation. 3200 shield is better.

Brilliant!

Kingslayer513

Can you repeat the question? I cannot follow this seemingly incoherent stream of thoughts.

Ragnarock41

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Fragmented shield is not really used for the ward, it is for the extra duration on major mending.

The ability cost should also reflect that. I think they should remove the shield on allies for lower cost.

Sharee

Lab3360 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

On a 40k health (and if you are going for a shielding build this is the minimum threshold) tank with no points in Bastion Obsidian Shield will provide 3200 shield. Factor in Bastion and resistances and you will get a very solid shield for your group.

And here is a little quote from 3.0.7 patch notes
Developer Comment: Dragonknights stacking Max Health could create extremely powerful damage shields on multiple allies at the same time, making some encounters easier than intended. We've kept the damage shield strength on the casting Dragonknight the same, while making it less effective on allies.

ZOS does not want you to stack 10k shields on allies because it makes some fights trivial. We've all tried it after Summerset.

Hate to tell you this. But a 3200 point shield in a trial will help no one.

The shield is now trivial when mitigating for pve groups undoubtedly because of pvpers who need dev intervention to win

Ah, you're just here to argue nonsense after being completely proven wrong.

Got ya, I'm out.

Hit a nerve. Must be pvper who cried to devs

I know its a popular meme to blame every game change on PvP, but i assure you, no one has ever complained about DK group shield being too strong in PvP.

I can assure you no one asked for it in pve.

Do you see anyone here accusing PvErs for getting the shield nerfed?

DocFrost72

Lab3360 wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Yes but one morph increases the shield size on yourself (Igneous Shield) the other deals damage when it expires and increases the duration of Mending (Fragmented Shield)
If you are a magicka character use Annulment like everyone that isnt a sorc.

Neither frag nor igneous does not return damage

Well it use to, they probably got rid of it when they increased mendings duration.

It already had mending duration before the change.

This change hurts build diversification and mitigation provided by tanks for groups

But shields also now take into consideration your resistances.

They always have. The only differrnce is now resist is calculated 1st before shield.

This is wrong. Wards never had resistances factored in. Well built tanks have larger wards now than they had before the change.

Ward in itself is resistance.

Troll thread pls lock kbye

onemoredragon

It seems like OP just wants group shielding to be more viable thing in PVE in general, thus arguing about the 'uselessness' of DK shield in that regard. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Lab3360 wrote: »

The skill was intended for Tanks to provide group "shielding." It does not replace annulment. With that same logic, since we are taking role defining elements away maybe we should ask the devs to nerf dps damage while we are on this subject, because I have the suspicion the reason for the change is because of some pvper crying about magdk dps in pvp. Now I see where this coming from clearly. Pvper asking for dev intervention because some of you are not good enough or innovative to create a way to manage.

As you say its a tank skill. Tanks need to provide group mitigation, not major mending. Pve

Big DK group shield used to be a thing sometime in the past iirc, but not anymore.. Thing is, currently you don't really need that, unless something drastically changes and bosses will start hitting everyone for the insane amount of damage indeed

You can try other classes perhaps if DK's 'offensive' style of tanking doesn't suit you well - if you want mitigation for your group and perhaps healing, Warden might be a better choice, for example.

Lab3360

The shield is not usable

onemoredragon wrote: »

It seems like OP just wants group shielding to be more viable thing in PVE in general, thus arguing about the 'uselessness' of DK shield in that regard. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Lab3360 wrote: »

The skill was intended for Tanks to provide group "shielding." It does not replace annulment. With that same logic, since we are taking role defining elements away maybe we should ask the devs to nerf dps damage while we are on this subject, because I have the suspicion the reason for the change is because of some pvper crying about magdk dps in pvp. Now I see where this coming from clearly. Pvper asking for dev intervention because some of you are not good enough or innovative to create a way to manage.

As you say its a tank skill. Tanks need to provide group mitigation, not major mending. Pve

Big DK group shield used to be a thing sometime in the past iirc, but not anymore.. Thing is, currently you don't really need that, unless something drastically changes and bosses will start hitting everyone for the insane amount of damage indeed

You can try other classes perhaps if DK's 'offensive' style of tanking doesn't suit you well - if you want mitigation for your group and perhaps healing, Warden might be a better choice, for example.

Wardens have no group shielding unfortunately. DK was the only class.
Say goodbye to DK healers.

onemoredragon

There are other ways of mitigating damage, not only shields.. and the Warden in particular was suggested because it corresponds better with more defensive play style, I'd say (take a look at Warden's major resistances buffs for allies and access to minor toughness, for instance)

If the group shielding seems very necessary in whatever content you're doing, Bone Shield is accessible for any class.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Fragmented shield is not really used for the ward, it is for the extra duration on major mending.

The ability cost should also reflect that. I think they should remove the shield on allies for lower cost.

you get 5.5 seconds of major mending. more then justifies the cost.

Ragnarock41

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Fragmented shield is not really used for the ward, it is for the extra duration on major mending.

The ability cost should also reflect that. I think they should remove the shield on allies for lower cost.

you get 5.5 seconds of major mending. more then justifies the cost.

Yeah, like how wardens get it for completely free.

Its the minor brutality proc and 990 stamina return that makes this worth slotting-combined with the mending-(which comes from the passives and applies to every ability in the earthen heart tree) And also the fact that there is no better alternative for stamina Dk as far as healing goes.

I don't think the major mending is by itself is weak, but I don't see how mending by itself can have a cost of 4k magicka, if wardens are going to have it for free.

The ability right now gives a shield thats so tiny I can't even call it a shield, its more like a microshield. And at that point why even have it there? Just rework it for something more fun.. Not to mention this microshield has the issue of overwriting the much more beefier igneous shield, if anyone else is using it. Because you can only one obsidian shield on people at the same time, they don't stack.

Sharee

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Fragmented shield is not really used for the ward, it is for the extra duration on major mending.

The ability cost should also reflect that. I think they should remove the shield on allies for lower cost.

you get 5.5 seconds of major mending. more then justifies the cost.

Yeah, like how wardens get it for completely free.

Its the minor brutality proc and 990 stamina return that makes this worth slotting.(which comes from the passives and applies to every ability in the earthen heart tree) And also the fact that there is no better alternative for stamina Dk as far as healing goes.

I don't think the major mending is by itself is weak, but I don't see how mending by itself can have a cost of 4k magicka, if wardens are going to have it for free.

The ability right now gives a shield thats so tiny I can't even call it a shield, its more like a microshield. And at that point why even have it there? Just rework it for something more fun.. Not to mention this microshield has the issue of overwriting the much more beefier igneous shield, if anyone else is using it.

It may not cost resources, but it is not free. The "cost" is having to let yourself (or the one you are healing) fall into execute range, which can be a dangerous prospect.

WaltherCarraway

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Fragmented shield is not really used for the ward, it is for the extra duration on major mending.

The ability cost should also reflect that. I think they should remove the shield on allies for lower cost.

you get 5.5 seconds of major mending. more then justifies the cost.

Yeah, like how wardens get it for completely free.

Its the minor brutality proc and 990 stamina return that makes this worth slotting-combined with the mending-(which comes from the passives and applies to every ability in the earthen heart tree) And also the fact that there is no better alternative for stamina Dk as far as healing goes.

I don't think the major mending is by itself is weak, but I don't see how mending by itself can have a cost of 4k magicka, if wardens are going to have it for free.

The ability right now gives a shield thats so tiny I can't even call it a shield, its more like a microshield. And at that point why even have it there? Just rework it for something more fun.. Not to mention this microshield has the issue of overwriting the much more beefier igneous shield, if anyone else is using it. Because you can only one obsidian shield on people at the same time, they don't stack.

just don't waste your time telling others how obvious those issues are. after all they still gonna give you a "L2P" dunce cap

Ragnarock41

Sharee wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Fragmented shield is not really used for the ward, it is for the extra duration on major mending.

The ability cost should also reflect that. I think they should remove the shield on allies for lower cost.

you get 5.5 seconds of major mending. more then justifies the cost.

Yeah, like how wardens get it for completely free.

Its the minor brutality proc and 990 stamina return that makes this worth slotting.(which comes from the passives and applies to every ability in the earthen heart tree) And also the fact that there is no better alternative for stamina Dk as far as healing goes.

I don't think the major mending is by itself is weak, but I don't see how mending by itself can have a cost of 4k magicka, if wardens are going to have it for free.

The ability right now gives a shield thats so tiny I can't even call it a shield, its more like a microshield. And at that point why even have it there? Just rework it for something more fun.. Not to mention this microshield has the issue of overwriting the much more beefier igneous shield, if anyone else is using it.

It may not cost resources, but it is not free. The "cost" is having to let yourself (or the one you are healing) fall into execute range, which can be a dangerous prospect.

While surely its a limiter, thats not a cost. It doesn't hit your magicka sustain as hard as it does to a Dk. In fact it doesn't hit your sustain at all because its a get out of jail free card, literally.

This design of passive mending also allows you to spam your burst heals without interruption because you didn't lose 1 GCD to cast a shield. You can instead spam that time to pop another burst heal, and spam the magicka left over for even more utility/healing.

Do I think Dk needs even more survivability? No I don't. I'm only saying warden doesn't need to have a get out of jail free card. They have plenty of tools to survive.

Ragnarock41

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Fragmented shield is not really used for the ward, it is for the extra duration on major mending.

The ability cost should also reflect that. I think they should remove the shield on allies for lower cost.

you get 5.5 seconds of major mending. more then justifies the cost.

Yeah, like how wardens get it for completely free.

Its the minor brutality proc and 990 stamina return that makes this worth slotting-combined with the mending-(which comes from the passives and applies to every ability in the earthen heart tree) And also the fact that there is no better alternative for stamina Dk as far as healing goes.

I don't think the major mending is by itself is weak, but I don't see how mending by itself can have a cost of 4k magicka, if wardens are going to have it for free.

The ability right now gives a shield thats so tiny I can't even call it a shield, its more like a microshield. And at that point why even have it there? Just rework it for something more fun.. Not to mention this microshield has the issue of overwriting the much more beefier igneous shield, if anyone else is using it. Because you can only one obsidian shield on people at the same time, they don't stack.

just don't waste your time telling others how obvious those issues are. after all they still gonna give you a "L2P" dunce cap

Man, If I didn't want to kill some time I wouldn't be playing an mmorpg to begin with.

Sharee

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Fragmented shield is not really used for the ward, it is for the extra duration on major mending.

The ability cost should also reflect that. I think they should remove the shield on allies for lower cost.

you get 5.5 seconds of major mending. more then justifies the cost.

Yeah, like how wardens get it for completely free.

Its the minor brutality proc and 990 stamina return that makes this worth slotting.(which comes from the passives and applies to every ability in the earthen heart tree) And also the fact that there is no better alternative for stamina Dk as far as healing goes.

I don't think the major mending is by itself is weak, but I don't see how mending by itself can have a cost of 4k magicka, if wardens are going to have it for free.

The ability right now gives a shield thats so tiny I can't even call it a shield, its more like a microshield. And at that point why even have it there? Just rework it for something more fun.. Not to mention this microshield has the issue of overwriting the much more beefier igneous shield, if anyone else is using it.

It may not cost resources, but it is not free. The "cost" is having to let yourself (or the one you are healing) fall into execute range, which can be a dangerous prospect.

While surely its a limiter, thats not a cost. It doesn't hit your magicka sustain as hard as it does to a Dk. In fact it doesn't hit your sustain at all because its a get out of jail free card, literally.

A "cost" in my book is something you have to give up/sacrifice to gain something else. In this case, what you give up is the safety of not being in execute range.

Lab3360

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Fragmented shield is not really used for the ward, it is for the extra duration on major mending.

The ability cost should also reflect that. I think they should remove the shield on allies for lower cost.

you get 5.5 seconds of major mending. more then justifies the cost.

Yeah, like how wardens get it for completely free.

Its the minor brutality proc and 990 stamina return that makes this worth slotting-combined with the mending-(which comes from the passives and applies to every ability in the earthen heart tree) And also the fact that there is no better alternative for stamina Dk as far as healing goes.

I don't think the major mending is by itself is weak, but I don't see how mending by itself can have a cost of 4k magicka, if wardens are going to have it for free.

The ability right now gives a shield thats so tiny I can't even call it a shield, its more like a microshield. And at that point why even have it there? Just rework it for something more fun.. Not to mention this microshield has the issue of overwriting the much more beefier igneous shield, if anyone else is using it. Because you can only one obsidian shield on people at the same time, they don't stack.

I don't think most of the people in here who like the change are actually pve content participants.

They like the change because it removes a 10k + shield which makes it easier to elimimate the opponent.

The problem.is it effected pve. In particular 2 very large groups in pve

1. The DK Tank
2. The Mitigating DK Healer


That shield was key to those 2 build styles.
Dk was the inly class that a group shield.
3k shield in pve is not a shield where bossees and sub bosses regular hits exceed far beyond shield strength.

Sharee

Lab3360 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Fragmented shield is not really used for the ward, it is for the extra duration on major mending.

The ability cost should also reflect that. I think they should remove the shield on allies for lower cost.

you get 5.5 seconds of major mending. more then justifies the cost.

Yeah, like how wardens get it for completely free.

Its the minor brutality proc and 990 stamina return that makes this worth slotting-combined with the mending-(which comes from the passives and applies to every ability in the earthen heart tree) And also the fact that there is no better alternative for stamina Dk as far as healing goes.

I don't think the major mending is by itself is weak, but I don't see how mending by itself can have a cost of 4k magicka, if wardens are going to have it for free.

The ability right now gives a shield thats so tiny I can't even call it a shield, its more like a microshield. And at that point why even have it there? Just rework it for something more fun.. Not to mention this microshield has the issue of overwriting the much more beefier igneous shield, if anyone else is using it. Because you can only one obsidian shield on people at the same time, they don't stack.

I don't think most of the people in here who like the change are actually pve content participants.

They like the change because it removes a 10k + shield which makes it easier to elimimate the opponent.

The problem.is it effected pve.

I think you are severely overestimating the shield in PvP.

10K shield in PvP is typically what you see on a sorcerer with hardened ward. NOT on a mDK with fragmented shield. That's more in the 2K range, if that.

Do yourself a favor and get this "PvP-ers got this nerfed" idea out of your head. They never cared about the shield. It's a non-factor. The ability is only used for the mending/stam return.

Ragnarock41

Sharee wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Fragmented shield is not really used for the ward, it is for the extra duration on major mending.

The ability cost should also reflect that. I think they should remove the shield on allies for lower cost.

you get 5.5 seconds of major mending. more then justifies the cost.

Yeah, like how wardens get it for completely free.

Its the minor brutality proc and 990 stamina return that makes this worth slotting-combined with the mending-(which comes from the passives and applies to every ability in the earthen heart tree) And also the fact that there is no better alternative for stamina Dk as far as healing goes.

I don't think the major mending is by itself is weak, but I don't see how mending by itself can have a cost of 4k magicka, if wardens are going to have it for free.

The ability right now gives a shield thats so tiny I can't even call it a shield, its more like a microshield. And at that point why even have it there? Just rework it for something more fun.. Not to mention this microshield has the issue of overwriting the much more beefier igneous shield, if anyone else is using it. Because you can only one obsidian shield on people at the same time, they don't stack.

I don't think most of the people in here who like the change are actually pve content participants.

They like the change because it removes a 10k + shield which makes it easier to elimimate the opponent.

The problem.is it effected pve.

I think you are severely overestimating the shield in PvP.

10K shield in PvP is typically what you see on a sorcerer with hardened ward. NOT on a mDK with fragmented shield. That's more in the 2K range, if that.

Do yourself a favor and get this "PvP-ers got this nerfed" idea out of your head. They never cared about the shield. It's a non-factor. The ability is only used for the mending/stam return.

fragmented shield is more like 800-1k on a PvP build. That is if you're running around 25-30k hp. The ability is only used for mending and proccing Dk passives. Actually this ability and igneous shield got nerfed plenty of times due to Dk tanks using it to carry their teams.

WhyMustItBe

Royaji wrote: »

...here is a little quote from 3.0.7 patch notes
Developer Comment: Dragonknights stacking Max Health could create extremely powerful damage shields on multiple allies at the same time, making some encounters easier than intended. We've kept the damage shield strength on the casting Dragonknight the same, while making it less effective on allies.

ZOS does not want you to stack 10k shields on allies because it makes some fights trivial. We've all tried it after Summerset

OP and others may want to just brush by this note from the developers about this, but the fact remains 10k+ group shields were way over-performing and OP in both PVP and PVE content. It was never an intended playstyle to allow DPS to just stand in the red zones ignoring mechanics and have the tank carry them with spammable group shields, nor should it be.

Are people upset about the change? Of course they are! People like to be OP and trivialize content that is supposed to require using your brain. But the fact is that the game didn't design mechanics and obvious red zones just so a bunch of lazy DPS could stand there mashing their rotation not bothering to move or dodge or block or anything because the DK tank could stack health and magicka regen and just spam shields on everyone allowing them to stand in the bad all day.

That sort of crutch is toxic to the game. It trains people that it is OK to just ignore mechanics and tunnel on their rotation, which makes it difficult for the devs to design interesting and challenging mechanics in the future. Just look at what happened to WoW dungeons. Just rush through pulling everything, no thought to mechanics, no effort put in to understand what was happening, just rush through and count on the tank shielding you from stupid.

Sorry but that is an extremely boring way to play and I am glad that this OP 'playstyle' was nerfed to the ground. I honestly feel that shields in general are in a better place now than they have ever been.

It is only the people who relied on being OP or having a 'stand in the red' crutch that are really upset about this. That playstyle was always pretty cheesy and I ran a bloat tank group shielding DK build for a good 2 months before the change!

We should not be encouraging new players to rely on that sort of crutch.

Lab3360

Sharee wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Fragmented shield is not really used for the ward, it is for the extra duration on major mending.

The ability cost should also reflect that. I think they should remove the shield on allies for lower cost.

you get 5.5 seconds of major mending. more then justifies the cost.

Yeah, like how wardens get it for completely free.

Its the minor brutality proc and 990 stamina return that makes this worth slotting-combined with the mending-(which comes from the passives and applies to every ability in the earthen heart tree) And also the fact that there is no better alternative for stamina Dk as far as healing goes.

I don't think the major mending is by itself is weak, but I don't see how mending by itself can have a cost of 4k magicka, if wardens are going to have it for free.

The ability right now gives a shield thats so tiny I can't even call it a shield, its more like a microshield. And at that point why even have it there? Just rework it for something more fun.. Not to mention this microshield has the issue of overwriting the much more beefier igneous shield, if anyone else is using it. Because you can only one obsidian shield on people at the same time, they don't stack.

I don't think most of the people in here who like the change are actually pve content participants.

They like the change because it removes a 10k + shield which makes it easier to elimimate the opponent.

The problem.is it effected pve.

I think you are severely overestimating the shield in PvP.

10K shield in PvP is typically what you see on a sorcerer with hardened ward. NOT on a mDK with fragmented shield. That's more in the 2K range, if that.

Do yourself a favor and get this "PvP-ers got this nerfed" idea out of your head. They never cared about the shield. It's a non-factor. The ability is only used for the mending/stam return.

Youre kidding me right. The shield changes were due to pvpers. You would have to have to have youre head in the sand or something not to know that. What are you talking about.

No one in pve wanted these changes.

Pvpers were complaining about sorcs shield stacking which triggered this whole mess.

I could not imagine anyone in pve saying "yeah guys, we have too much shield, lets ask the devs to nerf shields."

Lab3360

Sharee wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Fragmented shield is not really used for the ward, it is for the extra duration on major mending.

The ability cost should also reflect that. I think they should remove the shield on allies for lower cost.

you get 5.5 seconds of major mending. more then justifies the cost.

Yeah, like how wardens get it for completely free.

Its the minor brutality proc and 990 stamina return that makes this worth slotting-combined with the mending-(which comes from the passives and applies to every ability in the earthen heart tree) And also the fact that there is no better alternative for stamina Dk as far as healing goes.

I don't think the major mending is by itself is weak, but I don't see how mending by itself can have a cost of 4k magicka, if wardens are going to have it for free.

The ability right now gives a shield thats so tiny I can't even call it a shield, its more like a microshield. And at that point why even have it there? Just rework it for something more fun.. Not to mention this microshield has the issue of overwriting the much more beefier igneous shield, if anyone else is using it. Because you can only one obsidian shield on people at the same time, they don't stack.

I don't think most of the people in here who like the change are actually pve content participants.

They like the change because it removes a 10k + shield which makes it easier to elimimate the opponent.

The problem.is it effected pve.

I think you are severely overestimating the shield in PvP.

10K shield in PvP is typically what you see on a sorcerer with hardened ward. NOT on a mDK with fragmented shield. That's more in the 2K range, if that.

Do yourself a favor and get this "PvP-ers got this nerfed" idea out of your head. They never cared about the shield. It's a non-factor. The ability is only used for the mending/stam return.

I would be willing to bet youre a pvper.

WhyMustItBe

Lab3360 wrote: »

No one in pve wanted these changes.

I am a PVE tank and I DID want this change.

Having a tank spam OP group shields so the DPS could stand in stupid ignoring mechanics was a lazy crutch and toxic playstyle to be training people to think was OK somehow.

We don't have things like roll dodge, block, bash, etc. in this game just so lazy DPS can ignore it completely and rely on a cheezy OP shield spam mechanics from the tank.

Which is exactly what the developers said about it, if you read my above post.

Sounds like complaining about having to get good instead of relying on cheese.

Lab3360

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

No one in pve wanted these changes.

I am a PVE tank and I DID want this change.

Having a tank spam OP group shields so the DPS could stand in stupid ignoring mechanics was a lazy crutch and toxic playstyle to be training people to think was OK somehow.

We don't have things like roll dodge, block, bash, etc. in this game just so lazy DPS can ignore it completely and rely on a cheezy OP shield spam mechanics from the tank.

Which is exactly what the developers said about it, if you read my above post.

Sounds like complaining about having to get good instead of relying on cheese.

Sounds like you dont know what youre talking about.

So, what are you doing to mitigate damage damage for youre group as a tank in vet trials?