BG PvP has turned into complete garbage. No skill - Spam aoe - Spam time stop - spam immobs/snares

SugaComa

The problem isn't root ... It's mobility ...

Tanky players in all heavy shouldn't be able to run around like they're wearing lycra ... So to counter this we have roots ...

Roots get spammed and everyone is unhappy

Solution

Weights to armour to reduce speed

All medium you are base level speed and base level tankiness and base level damage dealing

For each light item you add you tankiness is reduced but your magic damage is increased as is your speed

For each heavy added you tankiness is increased as is your stamina damage but your speed is reduced

Remove roots that lock in place ... Keep snares but have no snare immunity only reduction ... Build some of it into armour, so quicker light characters can get a max of say 10% reduction, while heavy gets 20%, but you have to have a skill to cast or potion to reduce.

Knock backs and stuns remain unchanged and are still immune when using skills or immovable potions.

Waffennacht

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Duukar wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Im literally turning red and screaming when I get chained CCed into oblivion.

Which I spend a fair bit of time and money on. Im invested. Im passionate. It pisses me off when things are ruined so badly.

Also why Im taking a break.

I don't understand how anyone could take the PvP in this game serious at any level. There are just so many variables that you can't control for that player skill is just a nonfactor, unless you are both playing the same build with the same stats, there will always be a mismatch in the game. Meaning that you can't ever know if you really were better then the person you just killed or if your stats just carried you. Not like this is counter strike or halo, were everyone has the same starting ablitys and only player skill is a factor.

You are also talking to someone seriously invested in the game, I once figured out how much time I have in the game, around 12-13% of my time since I started playing in February 2015 has been dedicated to this game. The amount of money I have put into the game is a lot too but per hour has been one of the best use of my money, was around 10 cents American money per hour played.

Just fyi, people like me do enjoy killing other players no matter how we got there.

I take it "seriously" - as in I try my best every time

But that's just how I roll

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Waffennacht wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Duukar wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Im literally turning red and screaming when I get chained CCed into oblivion.

Which I spend a fair bit of time and money on. Im invested. Im passionate. It pisses me off when things are ruined so badly.

Also why Im taking a break.

I don't understand how anyone could take the PvP in this game serious at any level. There are just so many variables that you can't control for that player skill is just a nonfactor, unless you are both playing the same build with the same stats, there will always be a mismatch in the game. Meaning that you can't ever know if you really were better then the person you just killed or if your stats just carried you. Not like this is counter strike or halo, were everyone has the same starting ablitys and only player skill is a factor.

You are also talking to someone seriously invested in the game, I once figured out how much time I have in the game, around 12-13% of my time since I started playing in February 2015 has been dedicated to this game. The amount of money I have put into the game is a lot too but per hour has been one of the best use of my money, was around 10 cents American money per hour played.

Just fyi, people like me do enjoy killing other players no matter how we got there.

I take it "seriously" - as in I try my best every time

But that's just how I roll

When I say "seriously", I mean getting mad. Your enjoyment of killing other players is not diminished by the fact that you can't know if you are actually better then the other player, the person I was responding to does lose their cool when they die to things that they have decided are "stressful and frustrating". The guy I was responding to was frustrated even when they won. I legitimately can't understand how, since so much in this game is decided by a dice roll and I am not even talking about proc sets, the skills and differences in armor types lead to so much randomness that it is all just a big game of action sack.

Jakx

Something not being considered is that if you want to "fix" the current meta of aoe snare spam then Stam has to take a big damage hit. Stam does insane damage currently which is exactly why people adopted the meta almost immediately to spam snares after the mobility change.

I agree its a trash meta atm to snare spam but its also trash that Stam outperforms Mag so hard and that gap has only increased since it started in summerset. Any change to mobility without commensurate changes to Stam damage would only make Stam overlords stronger.

Don't forget the other side of the coin when you demand "balance"

jediodyn_ESO

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Duukar wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Im literally turning red and screaming when I get chained CCed into oblivion.

Which I spend a fair bit of time and money on. Im invested. Im passionate. It pisses me off when things are ruined so badly.

Also why Im taking a break.

I don't understand how anyone could take the PvP in this game serious at any level. There are just so many variables that you can't control for that player skill is just a nonfactor, unless you are both playing the same build with the same stats, there will always be a mismatch in the game. Meaning that you can't ever know if you really were better then the person you just killed or if your stats just carried you. Not like this is counter strike or halo, were everyone has the same starting ablitys and only player skill is a factor.

You are also talking to someone seriously invested in the game, I once figured out how much time I have in the game, around 12-13% of my time since I started playing in February 2015 has been dedicated to this game. The amount of money I have put into the game is a lot too but per hour has been one of the best use of my money, was around 10 cents American money per hour played.

Would you consider an ESport MMO with millions of dollars of tournament prizes, coverage and even scholarships “serious”?

Is WoW somehow a better MMO game than ESO that has something that makes it a real eSport where ESO can’t be? I don’t think so. Personally I love competition in MMO PvP and I’d love to see ESO get better.

It’s just my opinion, but I think ESO is the BEST mmo game on console. I’ve come to love console gaming and love this game, but I’m still a PVP player to the core. Been doing the scene since Vallon Zek. Dozens of MMO PvP games later ESO is home. I have faith and hopes that the dev team here sees the monetary potential in improving it the eSport attract to this game.

Irylia

Wish this game was cross platform and all eu na players could pvp together
Maybe then we would have enough of a population across multiple campaigns

paulychan

You forgot the part where the healer dude that's spamming aoe cc is also spamming cleanse. It's a solid tactic but, ya we should just come at u with a butter knife.
What are people to do? Not use the skulls they are given?
Oh, the cleanse thing.. use it
Edited so as not to offend snowflakes

Emmagoldman

If you can think of another way for magden to play outside of aoe, I’d live to hear it

ccmedaddy

Emmagoldman wrote: »

If you can think of another way for magden to play outside of aoe, I’d live to hear it

The current "meta" build w/ Master's Lightning Staff is pretty fun and effective, actually. Not my clip but I've been running essentially the same build except with Skoria:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6yntVA2EnM

brandonv516

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Emmagoldman wrote: »

If you can think of another way for magden to play outside of aoe, I’d live to hear it

The current "meta" build w/ Master's Lightning Staff is pretty fun and effective, actually. Not my clip but I've been running essentially the same build except with Skoria:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6yntVA2EnM

Yeah looks OP with Emperor buffs.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

jediodyn_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Duukar wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Im literally turning red and screaming when I get chained CCed into oblivion.

Which I spend a fair bit of time and money on. Im invested. Im passionate. It pisses me off when things are ruined so badly.

Also why Im taking a break.

I don't understand how anyone could take the PvP in this game serious at any level. There are just so many variables that you can't control for that player skill is just a nonfactor, unless you are both playing the same build with the same stats, there will always be a mismatch in the game. Meaning that you can't ever know if you really were better then the person you just killed or if your stats just carried you. Not like this is counter strike or halo, were everyone has the same starting ablitys and only player skill is a factor.

You are also talking to someone seriously invested in the game, I once figured out how much time I have in the game, around 12-13% of my time since I started playing in February 2015 has been dedicated to this game. The amount of money I have put into the game is a lot too but per hour has been one of the best use of my money, was around 10 cents American money per hour played.

Would you consider an ESport MMO with millions of dollars of tournament prizes, coverage and even scholarships “serious”?

Is WoW somehow a better MMO game than ESO that has something that makes it a real eSport where ESO can’t be? I don’t think so. Personally I love competition in MMO PvP and I’d love to see ESO get better.

It’s just my opinion, but I think ESO is the BEST mmo game on console. I’ve come to love console gaming and love this game, but I’m still a PVP player to the core. Been doing the scene since Vallon Zek. Dozens of MMO PvP games later ESO is home. I have faith and hopes that the dev team here sees the monetary potential in improving it the eSport attract to this game.

you see, when you make a tournament and place restriction on things, yes it does become more serious. i dont play wow, nor have i ever but a quick google show that before each tournament match, each team has to at least share the class/spec they are using, from here -https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/content_entry_media/***/FKEGTZXWPMH31518651651435.PDF. this alone will make the game much more "fair". when you are playing with/against randos in matchmaking, like battlegrounds, there is nothing really riding on the game you are playing and everything is allowed, making everything just a giant monkey pile, so no reason to get heated.

i also dont play on console, i play on pc, the only game i play on console is Halo (1-2-3, all the rest after that are junk, when it comes to competitiveness) and that game, even in matchmaking is MUCH more of a serious "eSport" then any "ESport MMO" could be.

NinchiTV

BGs should be proc free zones. If you wear proc sets they simply dont work. Monster helms too. Just good old fashioned PvP. Its too bad they have made weapon enchants basically the new proc meta as well. God they just borked this game to heck didnt they?

you guys remember around IC/wrothgar the magic meta was juli/willpower/2xmonster and stam had hunding/agility/2xmonster and heavy had blackrose and some other ***..IMO that was the most balance i can remember pvp. before people fell back on having to use sets for special dmg that counted towards half their dps..good times..

Vapirko

brandonv516 wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Emmagoldman wrote: »

If you can think of another way for magden to play outside of aoe, I’d live to hear it

The current "meta" build w/ Master's Lightning Staff is pretty fun and effective, actually. Not my clip but I've been running essentially the same build except with Skoria:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6yntVA2EnM

Yeah looks OP with Emperor buffs.

I’ve seen a few strong magden players in the last couple of weeks specifically. People are starting to figure it out. Lightning staves are definitely the go to these days.

Kel

Duukar wrote: »

Seriously. OP sets like earthgore and whatever else.. Spam your aoe and spam your timestop and snares and immobs..

No skill..

Im basically getting ready to completely bail on ESO...

I agree with what you are saying here...I even made a video about it.

Especially as a melee player, battlegrounds are torture. Battlegrounds have become mini-zerg ball groups who stay super tight and just throw down fields of AoE while they elemental light attack you to death wearing sloads and hiding behind two pets, atro, and engine guardian so you can't target them.
Even in flag games, where the strategy used to be you'd spit 2&2 and go opposite ways to cap flags have now been replaced by staying 4 tight and using the "strategy" listed above.

The solution is to join them. Stop caring about fair play and honor. Those days are long gone. Put on viper/sloads/zaan, or the dirtiest stuff you can come up with...toss down every AoE you have...timestop one guy...sure, you'll get the players using that same stuff on you calling you a cheese ball, but who cares? Didn't stop them from using it, right? Find a group of other players and start your own cheesy mini-zerg ball. Be sure to get a decent healer though, so when you get caught in other cheesy AoE zerg balls you won't die.
Because you'll group with randoms who think it's Cyrodiil and they can go 1vX deathmatch in Crazy King...or teams that scatter like ants in deathmatch and get picked off 1 at a time, because matchmaking is so *** poor that you'll be guaranteed to run into coordinated premades who "take the game seriously" and enjoy ruining your day.

Yes, battlegrounds used to be a place to escape the zerg ball mentality, but those days are over. If you want to find enjoyment again, put on your cheese to fight cheese, get you a group of other cheesy players with a healer, and just AoE/light attack to the top of the leaderboards. That's the new "skill" It's obviously the accepted way to play now...

Stop caring. No one else does, why should you?

/s

ATomiX96

I think its still funny that ZOS hasnt thought about a Root Immunity Timer, seperated from the general CC-Immunity-Timer.
They justify it with: "roots are only soft-CC"
Guess PvP doesnt bring enough revenue to get looked at by ZOS

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

@jabrone77 The solution is to join them. Stop caring about fair play and honor. Those days are long gone.

It is PvP, in an mmo. There was never "honor". It is a video game for crying out loud, one you play with random people that have no reason to not go with the best/easiest/fastest way to win. If you want "fair play" organize dueling tournaments that you control.

technohic

They need to make shuffle root snare immunity 1 second for each piece of armor.

Kadoin

technohic wrote: »

They need to make shuffle root snare immunity 1 second for each piece of armor.

Yeah they do so I can be immortal on my hybrids and have absolutely zero weaknesses. I support this change!

technohic

Kadoin wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

They need to make shuffle root snare immunity 1 second for each piece of armor.

Yeah they do so I can be immortal on my hybrids and have absolutely zero weaknesses. I support this change!

Because 5-7 seconds of root snare immunity = immortality? Roots and snares must be worse than I thought if they are the only thing keeping people from never dieing.

They could do it for the morph that increases duration and remove major evasion from it as a compromise.

mursie

if it's in the game - it's in the game. I just want to figure out how to also win with it.

players on stamplar and stamsorc that are virtually unkillable, taking little to no dmg, while melting you in seconds from the exact same dmg abilities you just used on them.

Joy_Division

Prior to Summerset, before Time-Stop and neutered Wardens who feel they can only compete with perma-snare ice builds, people complained about cheese and honorless things like Viper+Red Mountain+Velidreth, Sorc's abusing rune Cage+Endless Fury, stacked premades, etc. It's almost like the nature of BGs drives competitive people to use the most efficient and effective builds from patch to patch and meta to meta.

SubversusReformed

Joy_Division wrote: »

Prior to Summerset, before Time-Stop and neutered Wardens who feel they can only compete with perma-snare ice builds, people complained about cheese and honorless things like Viper+Red Mountain+Velidreth, Sorc's abusing rune Cage+Endless Fury, stacked premades, etc. It's almost like the nature of BGs drives competitive people to use the most efficient and effective builds from patch to patch and meta to meta.

It’s basically the same in cyro, you jump from meta to meta, except at the other end of your meta bat is a cp 300 zergling with no voice to speak out with instead of you or me or X or Y, and unlike the cp 300 zerger we can bring these issues to light..

Defilted

jediodyn_ESO wrote: »

Removing the snare immunity by making it too expensive and short to be worthwhile was an awful change.

Yet there is thread after thread after thread about how Forward Momentum was OP when combined with this or that skill/trait. This thread campaign went on for months and then Nerfmire came knocking.

I do not agree that forward M was the issue.

Go back in time. Stop the person from introducing the Swift trait and there are several changes IMO that do not happen.

The speed of the game is terrible now with the change to speed pots. Speed pots were never the issue.

Pile on all the other changes now outside of the slope we went down after swift was released and here we are.

Game designer thought pattern
Slow the characters down and increase the amount of time they are snared. This will satisfy all the "issues" we are having with people moving to fast.

At least with speed I could out run the ST spammer. I was able to move around the battlefield and make these players really commit to trying to kill me instead of just running by smashing beetles+DB+ST

brandonv516

Defilted wrote: »

jediodyn_ESO wrote: »

Removing the snare immunity by making it too expensive and short to be worthwhile was an awful change.

Yet there is thread after thread after thread about how Forward Momentum was OP when combined with this or that skill/trait. This thread campaign went on for months and then Nerfmire came knocking.

I do not agree that forward M was the issue.

Go back in time. Stop the person from introducing the Swift trait and there are several changes IMO that do not happen.

The speed of the game is terrible now with the change to speed pots. Speed pots were never the issue.

Pile on all the other changes now outside of the slope we went down after swift was released and here we are.

Game designer thought pattern
Slow the characters down and increase the amount of time they are snared. This will satisfy all the "issues" we are having with people moving to fast.

At least with speed I could out run the ST spammer. I was able to move around the battlefield and make these players really commit to trying to kill me instead of just running by smashing beetles+DB+ST

Forward momentum was never the issue. The 8 seconds of immunity it provided was around long before people started asking for it to be nerfed.

Swift jewelry stacking + decent uptime on Major Expedition + 8s of immunity was a collective issue - their solution was an overkill.

CatchMeTrolling

brandonv516 wrote: »

Defilted wrote: »

jediodyn_ESO wrote: »

Removing the snare immunity by making it too expensive and short to be worthwhile was an awful change.

Yet there is thread after thread after thread about how Forward Momentum was OP when combined with this or that skill/trait. This thread campaign went on for months and then Nerfmire came knocking.

I do not agree that forward M was the issue.

Go back in time. Stop the person from introducing the Swift trait and there are several changes IMO that do not happen.

The speed of the game is terrible now with the change to speed pots. Speed pots were never the issue.

Pile on all the other changes now outside of the slope we went down after swift was released and here we are.

Game designer thought pattern
Slow the characters down and increase the amount of time they are snared. This will satisfy all the "issues" we are having with people moving to fast.

At least with speed I could out run the ST spammer. I was able to move around the battlefield and make these players really commit to trying to kill me instead of just running by smashing beetles+DB+ST

Forward momentum was never the issue. The 8 seconds of immunity it provided was around long before people started asking for it to be nerfed.

Swift jewelry stacking + decent uptime on Major Expedition + 8s of immunity was a collective issue - their solution was an overkill.

Overkill or over buff is the model zos follows. That’s why time and time again I say be careful what you asked to be nerfed (definitely for small scale) because 9 out of 10 you’ll end up regretting it. Especially if no real alternatives are suggested.

People complained about forward momentum and said it was op. People also complained about speed. So here we are in a meta that players are responsible for too.

Next zos will nerf roots and snares instead of adding ways to deal with them and there will be another terrible meta.

Undefwun

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Overkill or over buff is the model zos follows. That’s why time and time again I say be careful what you asked to be nerfed (definitely for small scale) because 9 out of 10 you’ll end up regretting it. Especially if no real alternatives are suggested.

People complained about forward momentum and said it was op. People also complained about speed. So here we are in a meta that players are responsible for too.

Next zos will nerf roots and snares instead of adding ways to deal with them and there will be another terrible meta.

They really do have issues understanding the words 'subtle' and 'incremental'.

Sorcs shield stacking?. Ok... this week lets make them crit-able. Still too strong? This week lets make them smaller....

Instead they implement 2834762 changes every 3 months and watch the world burn.

Speed was fine pre-swift. Did I stack swift on my stam sorc? Yes. I am on 300-400 ping in BGs... I thought it evened the playing field out a bit. Ppl had no issues targeting me anyway.

karekiz

Your right. BG's should have been 8V8 casual grounds to begin with.

Betty_Booms

I am just laughing at all the stam players stating they dont have the resources to deal with snares...play magicka and get some real issues.

Any ability allowing movement during a snare should also remove the snare. IE streak, chains, nb shadow skill, etc etc.

Oh and there are still builds out there with crazy speed that can los, heal on the sprint, roll dodge like 8 times, take f all damage and have enough resources to literally sustain this whilst still having the ability to db and tornado to victory.

Imagine these builds without snare being affective...

Thogard

Betty_Booms wrote: »

I am just laughing at all the stam players stating they dont have the resources to deal with snares...play magicka and get some real issues.

Any ability allowing movement during a snare should also remove the snare. IE streak, chains, nb shadow skill, etc etc.

Oh and there are still builds out there with crazy speed that can los, heal on the sprint, roll dodge like 8 times, take f all damage and have enough resources to literally sustain this whilst still having the ability to db and tornado to victory.

Imagine these builds without snare being affective...

I’m on mag sorc this patch because it is more mobile than any class other than Stam sorc atm. Streak is more than enough to get around the closely confined BGs IMO.

Thogard

Regarding the OP’s point..

I’m not seeing a lot of healthdens in the high MMR matches. Not seeing a lot of timestop either. Those things may be effective in healer heavy matches that happen mid-afternoon but those groups usually get run off the queue by the prime time solo queuers who know how to maneuver to steal all their kills.