Is there a reason that Dragon Knights are so gamebreakingly overpowered?

Zacuel

Funny. I feel the same way about Templars.... Hmm...

Skoomah

This thread is a joke right?

Oreyn_Bearclaw

DK is a hard counter to basically two classes, mag sorc and mag nightblade. They are also one of the best 1v1 classes. While I don’t think they are OP across the boards, they are OP in certain situations. If I am on one of the above classes and I encounter a solo max level DK, I usually just go the other way because the most likely outcome is a perpetual stalemate.

Priyasekarssk

max_only wrote: »

You mean you don’t like being fossilized and taloned at the same time?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/425881/dragonknights-have-been-getting-away-with-it/p1

If you can’t beat em, join em.

My new stam dk is like a hot knife through butter

You are sensible. That's way to look at it. Why DK and NB are game breaking overpowered? These noobs cannot play any other class. Make DK or Nb and join cheese builds. Magicka NB is same level Op as stam NB. No one cares about game balance. Game is designed for EP to win in all alliance wars.

Create NB or DK in EP alliance. Problem solved. I did it. Can't you? No Guilds will take you in EP becuase of racial reasons. Just stand inside a group which is fighting. No need to kill anyone. No need to do anything. Free AP!!! Turn off zone chats for obvious reaons for racial slurs. Otherwise you would have no problem in PVP alliance wars.

AD will be distant third all wars atleast for a year in all aliance wars atleast with 10000+ points difference. Join AD PVE guild. AD guilds are friendly to all usually. High Elf mage sorcs are nerfed to oblivion intentionally , even for PVE lol. For PVP AD big no no.

As a customer , you cannot dictate class balance or worry about game. Learn to adopt and leach at what you have. You spent money on this game right ?

eliisra

I guess in terms of rock–paper–scissors than magDK is pretty OP 1v1 against magicka sorc, magblade and squishy terrible bowtards.

But any DK build, regardless if stam or mag is pretty underwhelming in normal PvP scenarios. I mean, since when was PvP in general centered around 1v1 dueling certain magicka builds and bowtards lol? Actually never and most certainly not now with the current meta.

DK's are solid and well-rounded 1v1 in a tank and spank kind of way. But they lack severely in other departments, making them average at best when it comes to solo roaming and 1vX.

_Ahala_

Um... what? Not a dk main btw...

Skoomah

DKs are mediocre.

Templars and Wardens are better healers.

Nightblades and Sorcs dish out more damage.

DKs were built to tank but tanking in PvP is just delaying death...

Haashhtaag

Wings should work like shimmering shield in the sense that if you are hit by a ranged CC you should be CC’d but the damage reflected back. In shimmering case the damage is absorbed yet you’re still CC’d It would provide counter play.

Mintaka5

The only thing more powerful than a magDK these days is a stealthed NB spamming lethal arrow poison build.

Swomp23

DKs are very tanky, but lack damage, imo. If you got killed in 3 seconds by one, you should definitely look at your build. Are you wearing impen? What are your resistances and health? Did you have a HoT ticking? Or did you just went ham on their wings with frags or swallow soul?

stamDKs have MUCH less burst than stamplars, stam wardens and stamblades.

Lord_Eomer

No doubt you have commented well and i totally agree but as you mentioned 7 out of 10 are DK and they are monitoring forum 24/7 to spam thread with DK is balance, its L2P blah blah!

Truly DK need balance in BG, they are simply outperforming other classes

Forum is full of such posts, i hope ZOS will review.

kaithuzar

VaranisArano wrote: »

Are you using reflectable abilities while the DK has wings up?

Or are you just struggling to do burst damage against tanky builds who know how to burst you?

If you want to complain, complain away, but its hard to take you serious when there are no specifics to your post other than "DKs are too hard for me to kill and they kill me too easily!"

Everyone knows tanky dk’s dont have burst, they just crutch on things like skoria

kaithuzar

Gnozo wrote: »

Dks are far from overpowered actually. Just get a good build with sustain and damage. Use unblockable CC, major defile and a good combination of burst/cc/debuff and he is Dead. Same goes for every class but i guess learning the game instead of crying on forums is too much to ask for.....

Tell me more about Templar’s “unblockable cc & high burst damage”...

ATomiX96

Protossyder wrote: »

Sparr0w wrote: »

Protossyder wrote: »

Sparr0w wrote: »

Is an L2P, DK's have burst potential and tankyness if running S&B. Main issue with them is wings reflecting everything from a magblade, if you can land a stun tho they're done.

@Sparr0w By "everything" you mean light attacks and bow proc or am I missing something?

@Protossyder And Swallow Soul, and Flame Reach.

@Sparr0w Are you sure? Swallow Soul is not a projectile

swallow soul is in fact a projectile...

Joy_Division

Is it 2014?

TrinityBreaker

Joy_Division wrote: »

Is it 2014?

OP apparently thinks so.

KRBMMO

See ... posts like this get me all excited ... hmmm ... I have a DK I haven't played in a while. Could it be? ... Maybe? ...

But then reality sets in and I realize more than likely Dk's are just the same as they have been for the past few years - OP in some few specific situations but bad in others. Just like every other class.

fred4

@Izariel, how many classes do you play and on what exact build do you struggle? If you play only one class / build, you get a warped perspective. Rock, Paper, Scissors is real! Some class / build matchups heavily favor one side, but that does not mean DK is OP in general. Far from it. Nothing brought this home more to me than trying stamsorc recently. I duelled two friends, playing long established DK builds, one stamina, one magicka. My stamsorc was unfinished, the wrong race (Breton) and lacking an important passive (Undaunted Mettle), yet she annihilated both my friends' DKs easily. So much for DK being OP. It's simply not true. On the other hand, my particular stamsorc build was extremely vulnerable to being picked off with Snipe.

Avoiding Rock, Paper, Scissors is the hard part, but that applies to every class and every build. You can literally avoid problematic encounters by not engaging, or by disengaging as NB with cloak, or as sorc with Streak and Invisibility potions. The harder part is creating a build where you can cope, defensively, with the large majority of other builds, while retaining enough damage / having enough burst to kill people.

Please post your exact build. Google the UESP build editor, input it there, including CP, the enchants and traits you are using, every little detail. Otherwise it's hard to take you seriously. We also need to know whether you play mainly in CP or no CP.

fred4

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

DK is a hard counter to basically two classes, mag sorc and mag nightblade. They are also one of the best 1v1 classes. While I don’t think they are OP across the boards, they are OP in certain situations. If I am on one of the above classes and I encounter a solo max level DK, I usually just go the other way because the most likely outcome is a perpetual stalemate.

Assuming the OP plays magsorc or magblade, your argument is basically sound, but let's provide some counterpoint nonetheless.

I don't play magsorc. From an outsider's perspective it seems to me that DK wings were nerfed so much that there is only one important sorc skill that can still be reflected: Crystal Frags. So I don't get it. The archetypical sorc burst combo involves largely unreflectable skills: Curse, Mage's Fury, Force Shock, Rune Cage, Meteor. Now, granted, sorc may be hurting from the latest Rune Cage nerfs, and Reach / Clench is reflectable, but I don't know.

Let me interject with something here. I have a magblade friend who is good, and I mean really good. This is a while back, but he would kill me on any and all of my builds within 30 seconds. I am not kidding. That included my flappy DK and my 50K magicka shielding warden before the shield nerfs. Furthermore he did it the hard way. His build was purely ranged. He used Merciless Resolve. He was able to see the opening, CC me and burst me at the right moment. No cheese. No Zaan. No Soul Assault. This is what the game is balanced for and why, I believe, top level players will deny that wings are OP, and why magblades are / have been rated as strong duellers.

I am merely a decent PvPer. I can't play magblade to the same standard and, for me, what you say is true. I would not attack a flappy DK with a ranged magblade and, thus, I switched to a 2H / resto (sometimes 2H / destro) hybrid melee / ranged build long ago. I use Concealed Weapon, Lotus Fan, Incap, Caluurion, and Forward Momentum to counter DKs. The funny thing is that Caluurion is actually reflectable, but many DKs stop flapping their wings when you appear to attack them only with melee.

Trancestor

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

You mean you don’t like being fossilized and taloned at the same time?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/425881/dragonknights-have-been-getting-away-with-it/p1

If you can’t beat em, join em.

My new stam dk is like a hot knife through butter

You are sensible. That's way to look at it. Why DK and NB are game breaking overpowered? These noobs cannot play any other class. Make DK or Nb and join cheese builds. Magicka NB is same level Op as stam NB. No one cares about game balance. Game is designed for EP to win in all alliance wars.

Create NB or DK in EP alliance. Problem solved. I did it. Can't you? No Guilds will take you in EP becuase of racial reasons. Just stand inside a group which is fighting. No need to kill anyone. No need to do anything. Free AP!!! Turn off zone chats for obvious reaons for racial slurs. Otherwise you would have no problem in PVP alliance wars.

AD will be distant third all wars atleast for a year in all aliance wars atleast with 10000+ points difference. Join AD PVE guild. AD guilds are friendly to all usually. High Elf mage sorcs are nerfed to oblivion intentionally , even for PVE lol. For PVP AD big no no.

As a customer , you cannot dictate class balance or worry about game. Learn to adopt and leach at what you have. You spent money on this game right ?

What is this load of BS?

BP_Sparty

Magdk is to overpowered with the ability to spam fossilize, please nerf. They always can spam leap far to often the devs should increase the ult cost to 200 and lower the damage. Also remove battle roar it is to far an op ability and instead give them a passive that will damage themselves when they block and then and only then will they be balanced with every class

Mureel

Izariel wrote: »

I get so frustrated trying to fight dragonknights in pvp. For one, my abilities seem to have no effect on them. None. For two, they can practically heal any damage you deal to them faster than you can deal it. Three, they can drop you from 100-0 in less than 3 seconds.

I am not talking about a Champion level 800 against a brand new player I am talking roughly equal progression. This holds true whether you are sub 50 level or a CL 300 going against a CL 350. It is always the same.

Why have they not been nerfed yet? It is to the point now where 7 of the 10 people i see in pvp are all DK's because they are just so easy to wipe other people with. It is incredibly frustrating.

Lightning Staff. With magica cost poison or Daedric enchant, if need be. Melee people should not have issues with DKs or? IDK, i don't play stam very well. Got issues with paper bags in high winds.

Kadoin

These posts are always amusing. If you think it is so easy, go play one. All you have to do to beat a DK is literally be on guard until they run out of resources or moderately push them.

Also how, exactly, do you know the skill level of a player?

Priyasekarssk

Trancestor wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

You mean you don’t like being fossilized and taloned at the same time?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/425881/dragonknights-have-been-getting-away-with-it/p1

If you can’t beat em, join em.

My new stam dk is like a hot knife through butter

You are sensible. That's way to look at it. Why DK and NB are game breaking overpowered? These noobs cannot play any other class. Make DK or Nb and join cheese builds. Magicka NB is same level Op as stam NB. No one cares about game balance. Game is designed for EP to win in all alliance wars.

Create NB or DK in EP alliance. Problem solved. I did it. Can't you? No Guilds will take you in EP becuase of racial reasons. Just stand inside a group which is fighting. No need to kill anyone. No need to do anything. Free AP!!! Turn off zone chats for obvious reaons for racial slurs. Otherwise you would have no problem in PVP alliance wars.

AD will be distant third all wars atleast for a year in all aliance wars atleast with 10000+ points difference. Join AD PVE guild. AD guilds are friendly to all usually. High Elf mage sorcs are nerfed to oblivion intentionally , even for PVE lol. For PVP AD big no no.

As a customer , you cannot dictate class balance or worry about game. Learn to adopt and leach at what you have. You spent money on this game right ?

What is this load of BS?

Nope . Just telling the truth. EP has many guilds full of racist which recruits only certain kind of people. Every one knows it. Are you one of them ? How many evidence or proof required.? AD is never going to win a campaign any time soon from now and trail by at least 10000 points by distant third until alts are completely levelled up.

Sparr0w

Kadoin wrote: »

These posts are always amusing. If you think it is so easy, go play one. All you have to do to beat a DK is literally be on guard until they run out of resources or moderately push them.

Also how, exactly, do you know the skill level of a player?

Same with stamblade, anything less than a pro player or a ganker is just free AP.

The Uninvited

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

You mean you don’t like being fossilized and taloned at the same time?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/425881/dragonknights-have-been-getting-away-with-it/p1

If you can’t beat em, join em.

My new stam dk is like a hot knife through butter

You are sensible. That's way to look at it. Why DK and NB are game breaking overpowered? These noobs cannot play any other class. Make DK or Nb and join cheese builds. Magicka NB is same level Op as stam NB. No one cares about game balance. Game is designed for EP to win in all alliance wars.

Create NB or DK in EP alliance. Problem solved. I did it. Can't you? No Guilds will take you in EP becuase of racial reasons. Just stand inside a group which is fighting. No need to kill anyone. No need to do anything. Free AP!!! Turn off zone chats for obvious reaons for racial slurs. Otherwise you would have no problem in PVP alliance wars.

AD will be distant third all wars atleast for a year in all aliance wars atleast with 10000+ points difference. Join AD PVE guild. AD guilds are friendly to all usually. High Elf mage sorcs are nerfed to oblivion intentionally , even for PVE lol. For PVP AD big no no.

As a customer , you cannot dictate class balance or worry about game. Learn to adopt and leach at what you have. You spent money on this game right ?

What is this load of BS?

Nope . Just telling the truth. EP has many guilds full of racist which recruits only certain kind of people. Every one knows it. Are you one of them ?

Then I wonder what server? Because on PC EU it's not, at least not on Vivec campaign.

Priyasekarssk

The Uninvited wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

You mean you don’t like being fossilized and taloned at the same time?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/425881/dragonknights-have-been-getting-away-with-it/p1

If you can’t beat em, join em.

My new stam dk is like a hot knife through butter

You are sensible. That's way to look at it. Why DK and NB are game breaking overpowered? These noobs cannot play any other class. Make DK or Nb and join cheese builds. Magicka NB is same level Op as stam NB. No one cares about game balance. Game is designed for EP to win in all alliance wars.

Create NB or DK in EP alliance. Problem solved. I did it. Can't you? No Guilds will take you in EP becuase of racial reasons. Just stand inside a group which is fighting. No need to kill anyone. No need to do anything. Free AP!!! Turn off zone chats for obvious reaons for racial slurs. Otherwise you would have no problem in PVP alliance wars.

AD will be distant third all wars atleast for a year in all aliance wars atleast with 10000+ points difference. Join AD PVE guild. AD guilds are friendly to all usually. High Elf mage sorcs are nerfed to oblivion intentionally , even for PVE lol. For PVP AD big no no.

As a customer , you cannot dictate class balance or worry about game. Learn to adopt and leach at what you have. You spent money on this game right ?

What is this load of BS?

Nope . Just telling the truth. EP has many guilds full of racist which recruits only certain kind of people. Every one knows it. Are you one of them ?

Then I wonder what server? Because on PC EU it's not, at least not on Vivec campaign.

It's PC NA especially PVP guilds. I don't notice such things in PVE centered guilds. I am not sure about EU.These guys are so serious about a fictional game lol. I can't stop laughing when think about it.

Who needs a guild when only free AP is our aim? AD is never going to win a campaign any way soon not even close. DC may be good option.
Its better to be alone.

ZarkingFrued

Izariel wrote: »

I get so frustrated trying to fight dragonknights in pvp. For one, my abilities seem to have no effect on them. None. For two, they can practically heal any damage you deal to them faster than you can deal it. Three, they can drop you from 100-0 in less than 3 seconds.

I am not talking about a Champion level 800 against a brand new player I am talking roughly equal progression. This holds true whether you are sub 50 level or a CL 300 going against a CL 350. It is always the same.

Why have they not been nerfed yet? It is to the point now where 7 of the 10 people i see in pvp are all DK's because they are just so easy to wipe other people with. It is incredibly frustrating.

Um.. what? Have you ever read patch notes in your life? There have been numerous, constant, and pointless nerfs to mag dk. I have zero trouble out of mag dk regardless of which class I'm playing. The only classes I get trouble from are nightblade in general and stam warden, tho not enough to cry nerf, I just need to learn to counter them better. Just because a few mag dks beat you is no reason to respawn on the forums and beg for a nerf to a class that you do not play. Every single person begging for nerfs on the forums should be required to post 10 minutes of pvp video of themselves in order to prove that they actually know how to play.

ZarkingFrued

lucky_Sage wrote: »

@Izariel
magdk or stamdk?
what class are you,stam or mag?
dks are far from over preforming stamdks worst stam class yes they are tanky but every other stam class is better
magdk are far from over preforming they can be tanky but then they will have worst dmg if they have high dmg they can easily get 2 shot if they F-up one time unlike all other mag classes. yeah wings can hurt if your a pure range build but against more than one player they are sub-par compared to most other defenses and cost a lot of mag, and every class has atleast 2 abilities that cant be reflected . they also have worst sustain than all mag classes highest and highest avg cost to abilities.
no dk can sustain wings for extened period of time with ooming.

this is 100% L2P issue

Well said. On mag dk you literally have choices to make in a build, in sharp contrast to some other classes that can have it all. And wings and coag blood are literally unsustainably expensive. They are "oh crap" buttons only, and even then you pay a serious price. Mist form can be a better option, but only if you enjoy massive dawnbreakers in your face from 75% of players, and every other player running 25% more flame damage on you. On my tanky dk setup I have to be to be 100% perfect to get kills, and on my high damage setup I have to be 100% perfect to stay alive. ZOS I know your reading this thread and getting all hot n bothered about wanting to nerf something again. Dont. Whip is already a hollow shell of its former self, and we cant sustain in comparison to other classes. Just leave it alone and go nerf sorcs again. We know that always gets your goat.

tactx

A DK is pretty tide-turning for a group. I made a DK because I wanted to have a tank and went into PVP with it and felt like a god. The ranged knockdown, aoe talons, leap, reflect, etc. You'll never see me calling for a nerf of anyone though. I hate being nerfed and don't ever wish that upon anyone else. I'm the type of person to want to balance by bringing others up instead of shutting everyone down.

Regarding all the children's lack-of-thought L2P response, I guess I don't know how to play in pvp here either, but I seem to only magically figure it out when I'm on my DK where I have the least experience and time invested...

I will say compared to every other pvp game I've ever played, this is the absolute worst balanced and least enjoyable pvp I've ever experienced and only do it for the daily reward or to get transmute stones.