Here's a challenge for theorycrafters

Saphayla

Make a build. Any class you want. Role has to be DD. Any race you want. Any skills and item sets you want. Only two requirements:

Has to be a Damage Dealer
No animation cancelling. You have to let the animations play out in their entirety. Even if the attack's considered instant, if it has a 0,5s firing animation, you've got to wait those 0,5s.

Sparr0w

Any class that doesn't rely on weaving, seen magsorcs pull decent numbers since they heavy attack.

MagDK's pull decent without ani cancelling.

Stam's light attacks do less dps than mags so they should also be alright.

mastoeb

Whats the point of this thread?
Another QQ thread about animation canceling?

Saphayla

mastoeb wrote: »

Whats the point of this thread?
Another QQ thread about animation canceling?

Not sure what QQ stands for, but in a way yes, I'm bitching about animation cancelling.
Or rather, instead of saying that it's bad, I want to see what experienced DDs can do without it

Also, hi mastoeb, dunno if you remember me

Sun7dance

mastoeb wrote: »

Whats the point of this thread?
Another QQ thread about animation canceling?

...no, just another thread about the confusion of animation canceling and weaving.
Really, it would take you much less time to practice weaving instead of worrying about it all the time!

Erraln

Almost every DD build you see posted online can perform under these constraints, it'll just lose dps.

Oh, and you know how you want to block when sudden danger is coming your way? Guess what, your skill isn't done animating, that's not allowed!

Same thing with roll dodging~

Same thing with swapping bars~

Same thing with pressing a skill key before a heavy attack has finished its useless backswing animation...

So yea, if you want to drop your dps and let yourself die more often for RP, go for it? I guess? o_O

Kadoin

Erraln wrote: »

So yea, if you want to drop your dps and let yourself die more often for RP, go for it? I guess? o_O

It's not for RP, it's for control over how others play the game or enjoy it. That's the basis for most of the forum posts that either complain about a nerf, ask for a nerf, or even ones about buffs. By "showing" there is a significant difference between those that do and don't, they will probably start the usual rant about balance and how cancelling is against it. Oh, maybe they won't now that I've said this.

Protossyder

Sorry, I will not go back to the Stone Age. Bullsh*t thread.
AC is not like using cheatcodes in gta, it is a skill you learn and do, even if you don't intend to. Want to fire skills and light attacks and swap your bars as fast as possible? whooops, you already cancelled an animation.

ATomiX96

Play magplar sweeps and Beam are channeled and cant be animation canceled, Rest of the abilities have pretty short animations, If you dont wanna use sweeps as a spammable roll elemental weapon

Saphayla

Protossyder wrote: »

AC is not like using cheatcodes in gta, it is a skill you learn and do

The efficiency of your animation cancelling depends mostly on speed, right? In what other ways does the game check a player's skill besides seeing how fast they can smash a sequence of buttons?

John_Falstaff

Saphayla wrote: »

The efficiency of your animation cancelling depends mostly on speed, right? In what other ways does the game check a player's skill besides seeing how fast they can smash a sequence of buttons?

By seeing how fast they can smash a sequence of buttons in a meaningful way, reacting to the fast-paced changes in combat situation and according to their own knowledge and prior experience. If you don't know when and/or not fast enough to bar swap after skill fired, then you probably don't know when and/or not fast enough to dodge or block that incoming bow proc or roll out of Ra Kotu's spinning attack.

Praeficere

Animation cancelling in ESO is pretty light compared to other games. Post a video of you taking up these requirements then maybe you'll get some interest in people wanting to beat you for ego.

eso_nya

When u activate a light attack with a staff, do u really wait until the projectile hits the target before activating the next attack?
To not animationcancel is really hard in eso.

Asardes

Animation cancelling - meaning doing heavy & light attacks in between skills, since those have separate cooldowns - is entirely optional, save maybe for Nightblade, where they're mandatory due to Grim Focus & Siphoning Strikes (different morphs for stamina & magicka). On other classes you can do the rotation without them and still achieve 30K+ DPS as long as you keep your DOTs up and have relatively good gear. Of course, sustain will suffer if you don't "animation cancel" at least one heavy attack per rotation so you'll have to probably gimp yourself a bit by replacing a few damage glyphs on jewelry with recovery or cost reduction ones or wear a sustain set instead of a pure DPS one.

But rather than not animation cancel at all you can simply press your LMB while casting skills and get off heavy attacks on the front bar. This is really easy with 2W on stamina character since the heavy attack animation is short (~0.9s AFAIK) and doesn't really make the rotation feel much slower (skill cooldown is ~1.1s). DK is particularly suited for this due to bonus from Molten Armaments.

Aznox

Saphayla wrote: »

Make a build. Any class you want. Role has to be DD. Any race you want. Any skills and item sets you want. Only two requirements:

Has to be a Damage Dealer
No animation cancelling. You have to let the animations play out in their entirety. Even if the attack's considered instant, if it has a 0,5s firing animation, you've got to wait those 0,5s.

Werewolf, rotation is :
0- Light Attack
1- Go to 0

But do not click too fast or your light attack will cancel a part of the animation from the previous light attack.

So the actual rotation would be :
0- Light Attack
1- wait one second
2- Go to 0

Protossyder

Saphayla wrote: »

Protossyder wrote: »

AC is not like using cheatcodes in gta, it is a skill you learn and do

The efficiency of your animation cancelling depends mostly on speed, right? In what other ways does the game check a player's skill besides seeing how fast they can smash a sequence of buttons?

Wrong, it depends on timing.
When you waeve too fast, light attacks won't come through, if you barswap too fast, the skills will not be casted.
Please tell me a better way to "check a player's skill" than aiming for their ability to multi task (playing rotation/combos while reacting to/predicting mechanics/enviroment for both PvE and PvP). And please don't start with puzzle games...

Luigi_Vampa

It is pretty hard to not animation cancel in this game. You don't even have to try. I mean if you want to wait a second after every skill go ahead, but if you have ever blocked, dodged rolled, bar swapped or clicked a skill before a light attack was fully completed you have animation cancelled. Trying to not animation cancel would feel pretty slow. I've seen some heavy attack builds from Masel in the past that don't need animation cancelling much, but I don't know if he has updated them.

Noldornir

Protossyder wrote: »

Saphayla wrote: »

Protossyder wrote: »

AC is not like using cheatcodes in gta, it is a skill you learn and do

The efficiency of your animation cancelling depends mostly on speed, right? In what other ways does the game check a player's skill besides seeing how fast they can smash a sequence of buttons?

Wrong, it depends on timing.
When you waeve too fast, light attacks won't come through, if you barswap too fast, the skills will not be casted.
Please tell me a better way to "check a player's skill" than aiming for their ability to multi task (playing rotation/combos while reacting to/predicting mechanics/enviroment for both PvE and PvP). And please don't start with puzzle games...

Yeah, this is correct:

too slow= you loose DPS for doing nothing for a little portion of time
too fast= you skip light attack, you loose more DPS this way than in the former instance.

as fast as you can get WITHOUT skipping anything= your goal

I know many player who "smash a sequence of buttons as fast as they can" and they DPS (810 CP) is usually around 16-25k which is pretty low given right CP/gear

Liofa

Play werewolf.

Rungar

play templar and be happy with ~20-25k dps . Upside is that you only have to press 2-3 buttons Sweeps, shards, elemental blockade.

Merlin13KAGL

Saphayla wrote: »

mastoeb wrote: »

Whats the point of this thread?
Another QQ thread about animation canceling?

Not sure what QQ stands for, but in a way yes, I'm bitching about animation cancelling.
Or rather, instead of saying that it's bad, I want to see what experienced DDs can do without it

Also, hi mastoeb, dunno if you remember me

Half as much DPS, at least with the restrictions you're indicating.

Waiting for each animation to come to full completion, including the return-to-neutral of a light attack is going eat precious global cooldowns.

As much as you may complain about AC, you probably do it to some level without even realizing.

Requesting this test promotes another ill informed view of what AC is and isn't, as well as what it can and, more importantly, cannot do.

DocFrost72

Gotta ask @Saphayla , why are you forgoing animation canceling?

BooPerScOOper

seems to be a L2P issue

Weps

Did I miss the moment that AC became a skill in the game?
I don't know, it is so difficult to cancel an heavy attack into another skill?
Is this really up to debate still?

Elwendryll

I think that this is indeed a very good challenge... To not make animation canceling, it is so hard not to do it xD Useful? No. Fun? Neither. Challenging? Definitely.

OneKhajiitCrimeWave

Everyone in this game at sone level animation cancels, even tanks. Be it bar swap cancel, block cancel or weaving.

This is not a bad thing. The bad thing is some classes have it much easier than others. NB animations are generally the easiest to cancel which is where most of the PvP QQ's come from. Sone classes have animations whih are blocky, and that's the only thing that needs fixing.

Saphayla

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

which is where most of the PvP QQ's come from

This is the second time this term has appeared in this thread. What does QQ stand for?

Elwendryll

Saphayla wrote: »

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

which is where most of the PvP QQ's come from

This is the second time this term has appeared in this thread. What does QQ stand for?

QQing can stand for crying/loudly complaining in a kind of pathetic way.

eso_nya

Saphayla wrote: »

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

which is where most of the PvP QQ's come from

This is the second time this term has appeared in this thread. What does QQ stand for?

Dictionary for weird language things:
https://urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=QQ