So I just had an epiphany about tanking(or the lack of it)

VaranisArano

Gulnagel wrote: »

malicia wrote: »

Gulnagel wrote: »

...Every tank in this tread have stated;

1. I only log on my tank for groups.
2. I switch out gear and skills but u have a add-on without it it would be bad.
3. Tanking is generally boring in ESO.

That's quite an exaggeration there. There were a fair number of people claiming that tanking is boring, and a fair number who disagreed.

Yes I may have went a bit overboard but the lack of tanks speaks a clear language.

1 hour = 3600 seconds. That's what my dps wait sometimes (to get paired with a fake tank but another story)

1 second = what my tank waits usually "wait".

When it takes 359900% longer time for a dps to que for a dungeon than a tank. Then clearly something isn't fun about the role.

And those of us who do find it fun have limited play time and often a very limited tolerance for PUGs from groupfinder.

I often see those two factors in discussions.

1. People dont like tanking, because its boring/too much pressure/not like other games/requires swapping gear, etc.

2. People who do like tanking prefer to tank for people who know what they are doing with their rather limited playtime. So they tank for guildmates or IRL friends primarily, lowering the amount of tanks actually using groupfinder.

Its pretty hard to come up with a solution that fixes both parts of the problem.

DaveMoeDee

ghastley wrote: »

There are a few quests where your task is to "protect me while I do this", but those actually require you to kill off a number of waves of enemies, instead of taunting them and grouping them for a specific amount of time, the way a tank would. Or applying healing to the quest-giver, as a healer would. The solo quests are all set up so that a DPS character has the easiest time doing them. That doesn't have to be the case.

Now, you wouldn't want that kind of quest on the required line, but side-quests that need a specialised build would go along way to restoring balance.

While it would be cool if there was a way that a soloing tank could clear content at the same speed as a DD, I don't think we should get that convenience while also having absurd survivability. It may sometimes take me 10 minutes or more to solo a DLC world boss, but at least I can clear them solo with my tank (unless they have healing).

arakis99ub17_ESO

The complimentary companion idea discussed up thread is the direction Swtor went to allow healers/tanks to complete content that might be tedious otherwise. While it works very well in swtor, I don’t think this is a viable option in eso at this stage of the games life cycle.

Gulnagel

arakis99ub17_ESO wrote: »

The complimentary companion idea discussed up thread is the direction Swtor went to allow healers/tanks to complete content that might be tedious otherwise. While it works very well in swtor, I don’t think this is a viable option in eso at this stage of the games life cycle.

It wouldn't be hard to implement an add-on for switching gear and make attribute points save in different pre-sets, of course the same for CP and make it free.

Gulnagel

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

ghastley wrote: »

There are a few quests where your task is to "protect me while I do this", but those actually require you to kill off a number of waves of enemies, instead of taunting them and grouping them for a specific amount of time, the way a tank would. Or applying healing to the quest-giver, as a healer would. The solo quests are all set up so that a DPS character has the easiest time doing them. That doesn't have to be the case.

Now, you wouldn't want that kind of quest on the required line, but side-quests that need a specialised build would go along way to restoring balance.

While it would be cool if there was a way that a soloing tank could clear content at the same speed as a DD, I don't think we should get that convenience while also having absurd survivability. It may sometimes take me 10 minutes or more to solo a DLC world boss, but at least I can clear them solo with my tank (unless they have healing).

If I had to spend 10 mins on a world boss I have to see Dr. Phil afterward, mental meltdown.

John_Falstaff

@Gulnagel , mm-m, first thing first, let's separate things; we were talking about how it's fun or not fun to quest overland on same character you're tanking on in dungeons. ^^ I fear that if we'll pile up everything, like whether it's fun to tank in general (some apparently think it's fun, some don't, I wouldn't judge) or issue with scarcity of tanks (didn't even dispute that), we'll drown in that mess. So, it's all about questing.

And to that end, I want to approach the issue from different end and ask - how much DPS would make it fun for you to quest overland? I mean, I know people who quest with 6k DPS, they're not tanks, they're damage dealers. Just... casual players, not really great damage dealers, but they apparently enjoy questing, many probably even enjoy a bit more challenge (there's thread calling for making overland content more challenging, even). So how much, in absolute terms?

MartiniDaniels

Gulnagel wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

The topic author, for some reason, insists on staying a tank in solo overland content - even when there's nobody to tank for, even despite the fact that the very role of tank implies a group.

And @ghastley , when have you last seen a sub-50 tank who's been leveling up as pure tank? There's usually no defined build at that point, it's usually a motley mix of tanking and damage gear (and it works for people in overland just fine). I see new low level people tanking normal dungeons in almost random sets, some sword and shield on the front, dual wield back, a mix that suits both normal dungeons and overland. They still learn what skills they need, so they do some tanking and some damage, and it works for them. And if you mean experienced high CP people leveling up a tank, then they probably don't level one as actual tank to begin with.

Every tank in this tread have stated;

1. I only log on my tank for groups.
2. I switch out gear and skills but u have a add-on without it it would be bad.
3. Tanking is generally boring in ESO.

You're lying, a lot of tanks here told quite opposite - they enjoy tanking for process, and they are not bored.

And it's obviously dps who always need group to avoid long queue.
On my main tank I may write in zone chat anytime - experienced tank lfg vpledges fast 3dd run and most often there will be a lot of propositions to join.

When your pug tank leaves group you may cry in guild chat we need a tank for final boss vbloodforge and you will cry for long and only if some charitable person is online he may join to save your hide to make his good deal for a day.. ask for dps and cp810 will agree to join very fast.

You obviously never played much as tank and even if you played, all your tanking was "taunt and stay blocking near boss" (though this is not viable at majority of dlc vets where mechanics will one-shot for such "tanking"). From what you're saying it looks that you project your queue problems on tanks, since it's easy to exploit and asking for devs to make tanking more casual so more people run them and your queue time will decrease.

Gulnagel

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Gulnagel , mm-m, first thing first, let's separate things; we were talking about how it's fun or not fun to quest overland on same character you're tanking on in dungeons. ^^ I fear that if we'll pile up everything, like whether it's fun to tank in general (some apparently think it's fun, some don't, I wouldn't judge) or issue with scarcity of tanks (didn't even dispute that), we'll drown in that mess. So, it's all about questing.

And to that end, I want to approach the issue from different end and ask - how much DPS would make it fun for you to quest overland? I mean, I know people who quest with 6k DPS, they're not tanks, they're damage dealers. Just... casual players, not really great damage dealers, but they apparently enjoy questing, many probably even enjoy a bit more challenge (there's thread calling for making overland content more challenging, even). So how much, in absolute terms?

Its not only the damage, it is the always changing build nothing set in stone for mediocre damage at best and maybe it's fine, if I didn't have to go through the hassle of changing gear and skills manually every damn time.

I have a good rotation on my DPS tanks to muscle memory, a lot of DDs I know have a solid rotation. If I was forced to change my skillbar inbetween group content I would begin to mess up my rotation badly, since I can do a lot if questing as a DD with my 359900% longer que time.

I don't know a lot of DDs that would find it fun.

Gulnagel

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Gulnagel wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

The topic author, for some reason, insists on staying a tank in solo overland content - even when there's nobody to tank for, even despite the fact that the very role of tank implies a group.

And @ghastley , when have you last seen a sub-50 tank who's been leveling up as pure tank? There's usually no defined build at that point, it's usually a motley mix of tanking and damage gear (and it works for people in overland just fine). I see new low level people tanking normal dungeons in almost random sets, some sword and shield on the front, dual wield back, a mix that suits both normal dungeons and overland. They still learn what skills they need, so they do some tanking and some damage, and it works for them. And if you mean experienced high CP people leveling up a tank, then they probably don't level one as actual tank to begin with.

Every tank in this tread have stated;

1. I only log on my tank for groups.
2. I switch out gear and skills but u have a add-on without it it would be bad.
3. Tanking is generally boring in ESO.

You're lying, a lot of tanks here told quite opposite - they enjoy tanking for process, and they are not bored.

And it's obviously dps who always need group to avoid long queue.
On my main tank I may write in zone chat anytime - experienced tank lfg vpledges fast 3dd run and most often there will be a lot of propositions to join.

When your pug tank leaves group you may cry in guild chat we need a tank for final boss vbloodforge and you will cry for long and only if some charitable person is online he may join to save your hide to make his good deal for a day.. ask for dps and cp810 will agree to join very fast.

You obviously never played much as tank and even if you played, all your tanking was "taunt and stay blocking near boss" (though this is not viable at majority of dlc vets where mechanics will one-shot for such "tanking"). From what you're saying it looks that you project your queue problems on tanks, since it's easy to exploit and asking for devs to make tanking more casual so more people run them and your queue time will decrease.

Yes as stated in earlier post i went a bit overboard, of course there are people who find tanking fun, but the majority don't otherwise there wouldn't be a shortage of tanks, right. And when people who actually tank says it's boring it gets sour pretty fast, and in my experience the ones who like tank as a whole is a minority. Always exceptions of course.

And the whole "If you can't find a tank rake a 810cp DD" what that tells me is we have a shortage of a support role that isn't needed in peemade groups with elite "deeeps".

And I find the que-times to be a major issue, aswell as queung as a fake role, but I'm not asking to make tanking better so more DDs will be happy, I'm asking to make tanking more viable so more tanks find it funny. So I who really want to lile tanking is on this game find it fun as in ffxiv for example. I've always been a tank until ESO.

Loves_guars

As for tanking being boring, I strongly disagree. Sure if you are just "poking enemies" you will find it boring but also you will be doing only 30% of what a tank should do. In fact, the amount of tasks is a lot more diverse than for the DPS or healer: stack mobs, buff, debuff, synergies, block in the right moment, boss mechanics and taunt. Because of it, I find it a lot, LOT, more fun to tank in ESO than in other MMOs.

As others said, you can use an alternative DPS set for your tank and change your skills to do Overland content. It's also useful to have a dps alternative build in some bosses that make the tank useless (pinion in WGT).

And as others also said here, I think the reason for tanks being rare is because is a thankless job and a lot of responsibility. You make a mistake, someone will die, probably the whole party. It's quite the opposite to DPS, you go do your damage, some mechanics, but you have another DPS to back you up or even hide your own mistakes.

jlmurra2

Katahdin wrote: »

Yea you never level a tank as a tank

I have found tanking dungeons is one of the quickest ways to get a character to level 50. Ques are near instant, and I find it much less boring than dolmen grinding.

Additionally it grants me loads of intricate, and ornate gear, so my crafter, gets a good boost, and the gold accumulation is always nice. Of course there is also some great sets that drop.

pelle412

I've tanked in this game for quite a while and can empathize with OPs ideas, but you can make it fun. When I tank any base game dungeon (veteran hard mode) I now use medium armor setups with Powerful Assault, Alkosh (front), Selene, and Maelstrom bow. I run in, launch an endless hail in a group of mobs, throw down caltrops to proc powerful assault, then swap to sword/board and taunt biggies and chain in smalls. Then just refresh endless hail and caltrops. It makes dungeons quite a bit faster. For harder content I swap to a more heavy armor centric setup (ebon/alkosh/LW as an example).

Katahdin

Gulnagel wrote: »

...Every tank in this tread have stated;

1. I only log on my tank for groups.
2. I switch out gear and skills but u have a add-on without it it would be bad.
3. Tanking is generally boring in ESO.

1. Never said that. My tank has done the quests in every zone except Murkmire and Summerset, currently working on Summerset

2. Used to switch gear manually before I installed an addon. Never ever crossed my mind to not change over because I didn't have an addon. Literally takes less than a minute to switch

3. I never said tanking was boring. It's actually a nice change from DPS. And for some vet content, you have to be on your game to tank because if you die, the party dies.

Caligamy_ESO

Lost my interest in reading the OP at "spoiled glass cannons" but I'll weigh in anyway.

I think part of the problem here is because the current dev focus seems to be aimed at DK tanking only, and like some others in thread have pointed out it can be (at times) somewhat boring. Now I am not saying other classes can't tank well and some pull it off astoundingly well, but in any heavy end game focused guild I constantly hear it. DK is the tank of choice or play a damage dealer/healer.

It certainly doesn't help that we keep getting nerfs and adjustments that make tanking on the other classes feel far less fun or even impossible, looking at you Nightblades. I used to absolutely love NB tanking but the past year or more they've really just been spit on by balance changes. Wardens kind of feel like a close second choice because they have some excellent self-healing, defensive buffs, and sustain options to boot.. but they still lack some vital skills like an effective single/area target CC that is reliable. Then even though I know it's possible because I've seen it here and there done successfully Templar and Sorcerer tanking just feels wrong and I've not found a good build that suits me that doesn't just feel awkward and clunky and more of a chore to play than fun.

So that's where I am at with my tanking and why I don't often choose to play it. It's either play a class that I personally don't find much enjoyment in playing, or play with this forever feeling of being sub-par.

Mintaka5

Of course the majority of players play damage dealers(or try to)

Degrading other players is not an epiphany, and what exactly was your point?

I wish this forum allowed a downvote/disagree option.

Was your epiphany disappointment? Now I'm disappointed that I wasted my time reading your BS.

DMuehlhausen

Linaleah wrote: »

the problem with lack of tanks is not lack of damage in overland, as it was already pointed out - slotting a few damage skills, solves that problem. the problem is the same as its in every other multiplayer game that relies on trinity. its a thankless job. you have all the responsibility and none of the glory.

mind you, some people do enjoy the role, but they are few and far in between.

It's the same for healers. It's about all I play simply cause I don't want to wait in a queue for hours sometimes.

No matter how fast we get through something, or how many buffs/debuffs I throw out the second a DD stands in BIG RED DUMB or ignore a mechanic and dies it's normally the same response. WTF Healer you suck F**** heal me next time.

At this point it's when I'm either kicked, or they die another couple times when I don't throw out any heals then simply post saying that's what it's like when I don't heal you.

You want more tanks and healers in the queue start treating them as a role that is needed.

zaria

Kikke wrote: »

My tanks just got a set of crafted dps gear when they do solo stuff.
Same with my healers...

I do overland in spell power cure, a bit changes to the bar over DD / heal mode but still backbar resto staff.
Not much difference between healers and magic DD.

Tanks require a bit more thought, I specked tank so she had most point into stamina, a bit less in health, gear is health an one magic so then overland its medium armor with all into stamina. You are still low cp as its tank but 15K dps is overkill for overland.

Linaleah

Gulnagel wrote: »

I've read what many of you have said, and to break it down it comes down to this; overland content, so easy, justput on DPS sets that you have to carry around and just switch out the skills.

What I am hearing is this; As a tank you have to accept that you need to carry around sets that take up your inventoryspace and you need more skillpoints on abbillities to switch around instead of for example - putting them in crafting. You are a class in demand, but you need to accept that you have to manually change gear and skills and still be weaker than a lightattacking dps in relequen for solo play.

I'm going to go out if my way and guess that the people suggesting this are experienced players, that have alot of hours into this game. But what if you are new or an average joe? First impressions last, how can a new player know that he needs to carry around gear that takes up inventory space and the only gold he makes is from questing, it costs to upgrade your bag. Skillpoints are easy to get but tedious to constantly switch out inbetween group content and on top of that you are weaker in solo content.

Even tho you are a role in the highest demand, you get the short stick.

It's like going to a restaurant with 2 friends, we sit down by the table and the waiter takes their order, not mine, and the friends say "just go to the counter and order" and then my glass is dirty "just bring your own dishbrush, jeez what is the problem?" and when it's time to pay I have to pay more even tho I had it harder and more tedious.

Is that fun? Is it rewarding? Will I go back to that restaurant?

It is not about what I can do, it's about what I shouldn't have to do.

except. this is STILL not the main reason why people don't play tanks. overland is tuned in a way that anyone can be successful in it, regardless of role or build, there is no need to carry extra sets and damage skills only take a few extra skillpoints - you don't even need to have a full damage spec, just couple of skills on one of your bars. overland is done that way for a reason and that reason is.. they want it to be accessible to all. and it IS accessible. killing monsters few seconds slower is not a big deal for most people. so it still comes down to the tanking role itself that discourages people.

very few people have mentality to chose and enjoy the role where its not about you, its about everyone else in a group and how you can make THEIR performance better, all the while you bear the brunt of responsibility for a group's failure. sure, there are dps and healing checks but only tanking role, that I know of at least is consistent tanking check or wipe on most group content. you have all the responsibility. and you are not allowed to be selfish. your playtime is not about you. most people playing video games for fun - want their playtime to be about them and their own personal glory

DaveMoeDee

zaria wrote: »

Kikke wrote: »

My tanks just got a set of crafted dps gear when they do solo stuff.
Same with my healers...

I do overland in spell power cure, a bit changes to the bar over DD / heal mode but still backbar resto staff.
Not much difference between healers and magic DD.

Tanks require a bit more thought, I specked tank so she had most point into stamina, a bit less in health, gear is health an one magic so then overland its medium armor with all into stamina. You are still low cp as its tank but 15K dps is overkill for overland.

My healer is fine as-is spamming puncturing sweeps.

Linaleah

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

the problem with lack of tanks is not lack of damage in overland, as it was already pointed out - slotting a few damage skills, solves that problem. the problem is the same as its in every other multiplayer game that relies on trinity. its a thankless job. you have all the responsibility and none of the glory.

mind you, some people do enjoy the role, but they are few and far in between.

It's the same for healers. It's about all I play simply cause I don't want to wait in a queue for hours sometimes.

No matter how fast we get through something, or how many buffs/debuffs I throw out the second a DD stands in BIG RED DUMB or ignore a mechanic and dies it's normally the same response. WTF Healer you suck F**** heal me next time.

At this point it's when I'm either kicked, or they die another couple times when I don't throw out any heals then simply post saying that's what it's like when I don't heal you.

You want more tanks and healers in the queue start treating them as a role that is needed.

yep, been there done that. I primarily play a healer myself. even as a healer though, I have found that in cases where proper tanking IS needed, my responsibility is not on the same level as for a tank. yes, I'm still responsible for making sure my group is buffed, making sure they stay alive, purging, etc etc, and the sets I wear are for the benefiit of the group primarily. but to be honest... to a degree it also applies to dps in organized group. but... if I misaim an orb, correcting it is easy enough by sending out another orb right away. if a tank misses abash or a taunt (or taunts the wrong target)... the consequences are FAR more severe. on the other hand, when tanks play well, most people don't notice as much as when they health drops to 5% and then suddenly shoots back up to full.

one of the guilds I'm in... we actualy have so many healers that there is an honest to god competition for healing roles for trail sign ups. gotta be fast to grab it. tanks on the other hand? not so much.

DaveMoeDee

Linaleah wrote: »

Gulnagel wrote: »

I've read what many of you have said, and to break it down it comes down to this; overland content, so easy, justput on DPS sets that you have to carry around and just switch out the skills.

What I am hearing is this; As a tank you have to accept that you need to carry around sets that take up your inventoryspace and you need more skillpoints on abbillities to switch around instead of for example - putting them in crafting. You are a class in demand, but you need to accept that you have to manually change gear and skills and still be weaker than a lightattacking dps in relequen for solo play.

I'm going to go out if my way and guess that the people suggesting this are experienced players, that have alot of hours into this game. But what if you are new or an average joe? First impressions last, how can a new player know that he needs to carry around gear that takes up inventory space and the only gold he makes is from questing, it costs to upgrade your bag. Skillpoints are easy to get but tedious to constantly switch out inbetween group content and on top of that you are weaker in solo content.

Even tho you are a role in the highest demand, you get the short stick.

It's like going to a restaurant with 2 friends, we sit down by the table and the waiter takes their order, not mine, and the friends say "just go to the counter and order" and then my glass is dirty "just bring your own dishbrush, jeez what is the problem?" and when it's time to pay I have to pay more even tho I had it harder and more tedious.

Is that fun? Is it rewarding? Will I go back to that restaurant?

It is not about what I can do, it's about what I shouldn't have to do.

except. this is STILL not the main reason why people don't play tanks. overland is tuned in a way that anyone can be successful in it, regardless of role or build, there is no need to carry extra sets and damage skills only take a few extra skillpoints - you don't even need to have a full damage spec, just couple of skills on one of your bars. overland is done that way for a reason and that reason is.. they want it to be accessible to all. and it IS accessible. killing monsters few seconds slower is not a big deal for most people. so it still comes down to the tanking role itself that discourages people.

very few people have mentality to chose and enjoy the role where its not about you, its about everyone else in a group and how you can make THEIR performance better, all the while you bear the brunt of responsibility for a group's failure. sure, there are dps and healing checks but only tanking role, that I know of at least is consistent tanking check or wipe on most group content. you have all the responsibility. and you are not allowed to be selfish. your playtime is not about you. most people playing video games for fun - want their playtime to be about them and their own personal glory

I don't know. What you describe kinda trivializes DDs. Like they are my minions.

Then again, the real reason my main is a tank is that when ESO launched, a coworker who plays MMOs said that being a tank usually means it is easier to get included in group content, so I gave it a shot. I never even heard of tanking until my second play-through of Dragon Age: Origins where I read stuff online about party builds. That was the first time I learned that taunting was a thing. But while I enjoy tanking in ESO, I don't make tank characters in single player, party-based games (unless a game requires me to make all party members). I want to actually kill things in those.

DaveMoeDee

Gulnagel wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

ghastley wrote: »

There are a few quests where your task is to "protect me while I do this", but those actually require you to kill off a number of waves of enemies, instead of taunting them and grouping them for a specific amount of time, the way a tank would. Or applying healing to the quest-giver, as a healer would. The solo quests are all set up so that a DPS character has the easiest time doing them. That doesn't have to be the case.

Now, you wouldn't want that kind of quest on the required line, but side-quests that need a specialised build would go along way to restoring balance.

While it would be cool if there was a way that a soloing tank could clear content at the same speed as a DD, I don't think we should get that convenience while also having absurd survivability. It may sometimes take me 10 minutes or more to solo a DLC world boss, but at least I can clear them solo with my tank (unless they have healing).

If I had to spend 10 mins on a world boss I have to see Dr. Phil afterward, mental meltdown.

There was one that took longer than that in Morrowind that I only attempted during the witch event. As a tank, I was getting no skeleton kills with other people around. But soloing that WB in Morrowind, I went from 3 skeleton kills to 100 for the achievement. I had to kill a bunch more before the WB was finally finished.

I think I pug vet dungeons so much that I've learned to just suck it up during drawn out boss fights due to no competent DDs.

Linaleah

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Gulnagel wrote: »

I've read what many of you have said, and to break it down it comes down to this; overland content, so easy, justput on DPS sets that you have to carry around and just switch out the skills.

What I am hearing is this; As a tank you have to accept that you need to carry around sets that take up your inventoryspace and you need more skillpoints on abbillities to switch around instead of for example - putting them in crafting. You are a class in demand, but you need to accept that you have to manually change gear and skills and still be weaker than a lightattacking dps in relequen for solo play.

I'm going to go out if my way and guess that the people suggesting this are experienced players, that have alot of hours into this game. But what if you are new or an average joe? First impressions last, how can a new player know that he needs to carry around gear that takes up inventory space and the only gold he makes is from questing, it costs to upgrade your bag. Skillpoints are easy to get but tedious to constantly switch out inbetween group content and on top of that you are weaker in solo content.

Even tho you are a role in the highest demand, you get the short stick.

It's like going to a restaurant with 2 friends, we sit down by the table and the waiter takes their order, not mine, and the friends say "just go to the counter and order" and then my glass is dirty "just bring your own dishbrush, jeez what is the problem?" and when it's time to pay I have to pay more even tho I had it harder and more tedious.

Is that fun? Is it rewarding? Will I go back to that restaurant?

It is not about what I can do, it's about what I shouldn't have to do.

except. this is STILL not the main reason why people don't play tanks. overland is tuned in a way that anyone can be successful in it, regardless of role or build, there is no need to carry extra sets and damage skills only take a few extra skillpoints - you don't even need to have a full damage spec, just couple of skills on one of your bars. overland is done that way for a reason and that reason is.. they want it to be accessible to all. and it IS accessible. killing monsters few seconds slower is not a big deal for most people. so it still comes down to the tanking role itself that discourages people.

very few people have mentality to chose and enjoy the role where its not about you, its about everyone else in a group and how you can make THEIR performance better, all the while you bear the brunt of responsibility for a group's failure. sure, there are dps and healing checks but only tanking role, that I know of at least is consistent tanking check or wipe on most group content. you have all the responsibility. and you are not allowed to be selfish. your playtime is not about you. most people playing video games for fun - want their playtime to be about them and their own personal glory

I don't know. What you describe kinda trivializes DDs. Like they are my minions.

Then again, the real reason my main is a tank is that when ESO launched, a coworker who plays MMOs said that being a tank usually means it is easier to get included in group content, so I gave it a shot. I never even heard of tanking until my second play-through of Dragon Age: Origins where I read stuff online about party builds. That was the first time I learned that taunting was a thing. But while I enjoy tanking in ESO, I don't make tank characters in single player, party-based games (unless a game requires me to make all party members). I want to actually kill things in those.

dps is still important, vitally so in many cases. but you have multiple dps in a group and some can often compensate for the rest. there is no compensating for a tank. you may think of dps as your minions but they aren't. not really. they are more like cats that you have to herd. sometimes intelligent skilled cats that work with you. and sometimes... not so much.

Wayshuba

When you say tanks are hard to find or rare do you mean during PUGs? in your guild(s)? or tanks for specific content?

I have a DK tank since I started. I have played tanks in every MMO I have played and enjoy it immensely. For solo, overland content I just have a gear and weapon setup that works better for Overland DPS (a modified version of a StamDK build).

In some of the Vanilla Dungeons tanking can be easy (and I only do them in Vet hard mode anyway). The DLC Dungeons, especially the later ones, put a bit more task on the tank. Trials also require the tank to be on their toes.

Tanking does take a bit of work though. Where DPS or healers tend to have meta-builds (that may change with each patch), tanks walk around with several sets to switch to depending on the boss or situation. I know I carry 4 different setups depending on what I am facing.

Anyway, most people that stick with tanks never really have trouble finding groups since those of us that focus, and stay focused on it, rather enjoy it and seek to be the best tanks we can be for our groups. That said, I do know many who primarily focus on DPS and have tank alts, but those alts only seem to get use for a little while before they end up shelved.

John_Falstaff

@Gulnagel , changing gear is twelve drag-and-drop operations without addon, two clicks with it. You need to do it once as you go questing, that's probably once, twice a day at most. I had more hassle managing mundus stones when I ran Twice-Born Star a while ago. I'm also not sure if I understand the argument about changing skill bars and messing up your rotation. You -do- say that it is comfortable to quest on a DD, right? So, when you switch to DD and quest, you're using different rotation anyway? So what difference does it make, to use different rotation after switching characters, or after switching bars?

As for mediocre damage - again, do tell how much is comfortable for you overland. I do go for lower damage, trading in for comfort, because in overland, there is such a thing as 'enough damage'. For some, it's 6k dps, for some more. That's why I wondered what's your comfort level. 'Mediocre' is a relative thing, you're not doing a parse on overland mobs.

Jeremy

Royaji wrote: »

There are no tanks, healers or DDs in solo content. Those roles make sense only in context of a group. So why would you try to be a tank while soloing? Who are you tanking for?

ESO has great build freedom. And it is not hard to switch your full support tank build to something more suitable for solo in (brain dead easy) overland. And please, stop with that story about respecing attributes, CPs and skills. You do not need any of that.

1) take off your heavy armor and sword and shield, put on the most simple DD set - I'm talking Hundings/Spriggans or even Night Mother's (they are stupidly cheap, even CP 150 works).
2) drop tri-food for max stam + stam recovery food
3) slot some damage skills. Hail, rending, claw/sub assault/whatever. Even slot a two-hander and spam Dizzying. All of that is more than enough. And skillpoints are abundant in the game, just grab some skyshards.

Now you can have a 20k DPS build. You will melt through everything in overland. Is it really that hard?

Why doesn't a tank make sense in solo content? The sword taunt lowers resistances. So it's useful even when soloing, and having a higher defense can certainly come in handy against some of the more lethal world bosses.

Healers make perfect sense as well as obviously they will be skilled at healing themselves as well as a group. This idea that healers and tanks are only for group-play is very weird to me. My healers and tanks frequently out-solo the DPS builds I see getting slaughtered on a regular basis.

So that being said: I really don't see why any tank or healer should have difficulty soloing on this game. The only time this becomes a problem is in respect to stupid things like Maelstrom Arena due to all the punishing DPS checks - which specifically cater to high-offensive builds. So in that respect, I would agree with the OP's point. Otherwise, I don't. To your point: you can melt most enemies on this game even as a tank and should have no difficulties questing/exploring. You shouldn't even need to change gear.

paulychan

I just carry a solo set and have enough skill points on hand to avoid a respec for all my tanks and heals. I find the gear with my DD's

Royaji

Jeremy wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

There are no tanks, healers or DDs in solo content. Those roles make sense only in context of a group. So why would you try to be a tank while soloing? Who are you tanking for?

ESO has great build freedom. And it is not hard to switch your full support tank build to something more suitable for solo in (brain dead easy) overland. And please, stop with that story about respecing attributes, CPs and skills. You do not need any of that.

1) take off your heavy armor and sword and shield, put on the most simple DD set - I'm talking Hundings/Spriggans or even Night Mother's (they are stupidly cheap, even CP 150 works).
2) drop tri-food for max stam + stam recovery food
3) slot some damage skills. Hail, rending, claw/sub assault/whatever. Even slot a two-hander and spam Dizzying. All of that is more than enough. And skillpoints are abundant in the game, just grab some skyshards.

Now you can have a 20k DPS build. You will melt through everything in overland. Is it really that hard?

Why doesn't a tank make sense in solo content? The sword taunt lowers resistances. So it's useful even when soloing, and having a higher defense can certainly come in handy against some of the more lethal world bosses.

Healers make perfect sense as well as obviously they will be skilled at healing themselves as well as a group. This idea that healers and tanks are only for group-play is very weird to me. My healers and tanks frequently out-solo the DPS builds I see getting slaughtered on a regular basis.

So that being said: I really don't see why any tank or healer should have difficulty soloing on this game. The only time this becomes a problem is in respect to stupid things like Maelstrom Arena due to all the punishing DPS checks - which specifically cater to high-offensive builds. So in that respect, I would agree with the OP's point. Otherwise, I don't. To your point: you can melt most enemies on this game even as a tank and should have no difficulties questing/exploring. You shouldn't even need to change gear.

Because tank/healer/DD are group roles. In a group you separate roles and specialize to achieve something a solo build can't.

While you are solo there are no such roles. You are your own healer, tank and DD.

EvilAutoTech

I carry an extra monster set and a flame staff that I use instead of the ice staff. I change one skill between group and solo content.

Jeremy

Royaji wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

There are no tanks, healers or DDs in solo content. Those roles make sense only in context of a group. So why would you try to be a tank while soloing? Who are you tanking for?

ESO has great build freedom. And it is not hard to switch your full support tank build to something more suitable for solo in (brain dead easy) overland. And please, stop with that story about respecing attributes, CPs and skills. You do not need any of that.

1) take off your heavy armor and sword and shield, put on the most simple DD set - I'm talking Hundings/Spriggans or even Night Mother's (they are stupidly cheap, even CP 150 works).
2) drop tri-food for max stam + stam recovery food
3) slot some damage skills. Hail, rending, claw/sub assault/whatever. Even slot a two-hander and spam Dizzying. All of that is more than enough. And skillpoints are abundant in the game, just grab some skyshards.

Now you can have a 20k DPS build. You will melt through everything in overland. Is it really that hard?

Why doesn't a tank make sense in solo content? The sword taunt lowers resistances. So it's useful even when soloing, and having a higher defense can certainly come in handy against some of the more lethal world bosses.

Healers make perfect sense as well as obviously they will be skilled at healing themselves as well as a group. This idea that healers and tanks are only for group-play is very weird to me. My healers and tanks frequently out-solo the DPS builds I see getting slaughtered on a regular basis.

So that being said: I really don't see why any tank or healer should have difficulty soloing on this game. The only time this becomes a problem is in respect to stupid things like Maelstrom Arena due to all the punishing DPS checks - which specifically cater to high-offensive builds. So in that respect, I would agree with the OP's point. Otherwise, I don't. To your point: you can melt most enemies on this game even as a tank and should have no difficulties questing/exploring. You shouldn't even need to change gear.

Because tank/healer/DD are group roles. In a group you separate roles and specialize to achieve something a solo build can't.

While you are solo there are no such roles. You are your own healer, tank and DD.

But they aren't group roles. They are simply class builds designed to excel at either defense or healing.

This idea that anything that isn't in a group is suppose to be a damage-dealing class makes no sense to me. Tanks and healers were not even considered support roles back when the support role was actually a thing.

And you can be a "tank' and still do damage and heal yourself. I solo on my tank all the time - and he's quite good at it.