Jumping back in to World of Warcraft made me realise...

ImmortalCX

Wow looks like a Flash browser game.

RebornV3x

I have to agree with OP sort of there's a reason WOW is the king of MMO's nearly 14 years in a row if it wasn't for that absolute horrible graphics I would probably be playing it.

SirFearless

Kalgert wrote: »

Long story short: WoW is more consistent with classes, dungeons and abilities. ESO is not.

In fact, the only thing I'll say ESO is good for is outdoor content. Anything else and it is... Eeeh... Well... Kinda ***, actually.

You also gotta understand wow has had 14 years to mold its game while eso has only been out for 4 years plus wow's latest expansion has been dub the worst yet(been playing since classic and i have to agree with it been pretty bad)

Itzmichi

..... that its outdated?

Tandor

I must confess that I don't get the central point that the OP seems to be making. Why would anyone think that the dungeons need to be of consistent difficulty? It's like the crafting system, where ZOS had the great idea before launch that the professions should be of varying difficulty so that, for example, provisioning would be readily accessible to the most casual crafter while enchanting would take much more time and effort and be suited to the hardcore crafter. Needless to say within a short time of launch the pressure was on for them all to be dumbed down to the lowest common denominator.

I relish varying levels of challenge in a game, be they in respect of crafting, dungeons or any other aspect of the game. If other games prefer to have a uniform difficulty level that's fine, but it doesn't mean that this game has to as well. I play both ESO and WoW, and WoW has a lot of things I like, and so does ESO. They're not the same games, nor should they be. Long may that continue to be the case. I strongly recommend that people either enjoy the diversity that different games offer or else stick to the game they prefer.

An_An

Kalgert wrote: »

Wait... Why is my damage output not that great, compared to this other guy who is doing a million billion DPS? And that guy is only putting down one AoE ability and maybe some other ability at most, while I am spamming all of my abilities to the best of my abilities, even trying to perform a staff-swap trick (Something I did for my mage) to get the most speed.

Lol I really identify with this. Was checking some parses on YouTube for a magblade in which they were literally taking their time with each light attack - ability and here I am trying my best to do it as fast as possible. They did on average one merciless proc ler 7.5 seconds, I did one merciless Proc per 8 seconds. Difference in DPS - 15k. How? I have no clue. All buff uptimes were up, stats also seem to be the same. I never miss a light attack cancel.
(Shrug)

flguy147ub17_ESO

Aeladiir wrote: »

Kalgert wrote: »

That instanced content in ESO is cold diarrhea in a dixie cup compared to WoW.

As far as games are concerned: ESO is fun. It looks lovely, the open world is consistently relevant, and it has quite a few other things to it that make it enjoyable and worth playing.

But the instanced PvE side of things.. UURGH. WoW may not be a saint or anything, but it's far superior when it comes to instanced stuff. It's consistent, it is straightforward, the difficulty of dungeons and the like aren't determined by the level of where a dungeon is located or whether or not it has been added in as extra content that you'd have to pay for.

While in ESO, it's a mess. Dungeons and their difficulty rating are all over the place, some where they can be soloed while others are the kind of difficult that make it feel like a waste of time to even press your head against them.

Part of it probably also comes down to how gameplay and the design is. It's tab-targetting, ans character progression has you get gear that has better numbers than what you currently have, and the ability choices set fairly in stone depending on your specialization. Also the rotations are straightforward as well, so success isn't too difficult to achieve.

Meanwhile in ESO you have more freedom yes, but that freedom does come at a bit of a cost. First you decide what you want to do (Let's say a Mage). Okay, decided on a class, but now what? Well, go out and hunt for specific pieces of gear that boost magic stuff. But wait, races have passives that boost your performance even further. So an Orc Mage ain't that good. Okay, gonna be an Altmer Dragon Kni- Wait, Dunmer are better suited as Dragon Knights due to all the fire damage. Best to reroll a third time.

Okay, now I finally got my choices down, now to find specific gear sets that deal with Fire Damage and maybe some other stuff. After some time hunting for those, I have everything needed, now I will certainly do great fire damage! Wait... Why is my damage output not that great, compared to this other guy who is doing a million billion DPS? And that guy is only putting down one AoE ability and maybe some other ability at most, while I am spamming all of my abilities to the best of my abilities, even trying to perform a staff-swap trick (Something I did for my mage) to get the most speed.

Long story short: WoW is more consistent with classes, dungeons and abilities. ESO is not.

In fact, the only thing I'll say ESO is good for is outdoor content. Anything else and it is... Eeeh... Well... Kinda ***, actually.

Kill 5 boars.

5 Boars or go Rift hunting in ESO and call it an expansion, fetch here fetch there, repeat in a different zone. And 4 years later they cant even put in a simple feature like search in guild stores. About as basic of a feature the entire community has asked for since launch. Its miserable searching for an item you are looking for

MaxJrFTW

It's the only thing WoW is good at, instanced content. Outside of that it is vastly outshined by ESO.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Translation: ESO endgame is harder and more diverse than WOW and I don't like it.

In what world? Call me when a group of elite ESO players wipes 500-700 times to a boss before the 1st kill.

You have to be insane to even suggest ESO is more difficult than WoW. Is ESO a better overall game? As someone who played WoW for a decade and dumped it for ESO, i believe so. However, the game is made for casuals. The vast majority of ESO players can't even do 20k dps. You can't even find a guild to do vet content in this game.

zaria

VaranisArano wrote: »

ESO and WOW are different games.

ESO isnt going to revamp their dungeon difficulty short of another total game revamp like One Tamriel, the last time they redid difficulty. Old dungeons will continue to be easy, DLC dungeons will continue to be PUG-breakers.

I suggest you either accept ESO for what it is or go play WOW. They've each got their strengths and weaknesses, but neither game is going to copy the other.

I like the difficulty curve for dungeons: think most remember progressing trough them, still not done vet march of sacrifices.
In wow it was more level difficulties, with one level easy and the next too hard.
ESO is also more player skill based.

Linaleah

CyberSkooma wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Translation: ESO endgame is harder and more diverse than WOW and I don't like it.

that is actualy not entirely true. the main difference between end game difficulties in WoW vs ESO is that in ESO everything is lumped into the same groupfinder, while in WoW there are groupfinder dungeons and there are mythic dungeons that you have to form a premade group for and travel to manually. there is a great diversity of difficulty in WoW, possibly with higher range of difficulties then ESO even. its just separated, so you are not accidentally ending up in a mythic 5 dungeon while still gearing a freshly leveled up 120 with mostly basic started gear.

CyberSkooma wrote: »

The only thing I despise about ESO are the different "phases" or "shards" or whatever you want to call them that seperate the community from each other. The amount of times I've ported to an empty Reaper's March and then jumped to a friend who's instance was packed, annoys me. I wish they could just blend them together. Everyone in the same phase. Or at least, at the VERY LEAST, let us select our phase manually, so we can see where the people are at..

a very similar problem exists in WoW, and just about every other modern still running MMO, so...

It does not exist in WoW. You have your other servers, sure. But on your server it is all the same phase. If I run to goldshire, I know that EVERYONE on my server, who is standing at goldshire, will be visible. Many MMO's where it is a problem will allow you to jump channels at your own free will, sometimes with the population of each channel visible. I have played so many it is ridiculous, so I understand how they tend to work at this point.


EDIT: I guess on WoW since changing the PvP servers it is a slight problem, but for the most part my point still stands..

when was the last time you played WoW? everything but the most recent content is phased. you might be running into people from other servers, while never seeing another person from your own. WoW has been using sharding type technology for several expansions now. its called cross realm zoning and it can get genuinely bloody annoying at times.

and in ESO you can travel to friend if you want to be in the same instance, and i cannot say that I have played every MMO there is, but the one MMO I did play that allowed me to switch shards at will - in theory (swtor) in practice wouldn't let me travel to shard that was full. in GW2, last I played it - i coudlnt' switch shards just becasue. I could either jump to friend, or if the shard was getting to empty - be offered to jump in advance of it closing and get a buff for it.

but anyways, I still wish there was a separate queue for DLC dungeons in ESO. they are a pretty steep jump in difficulty from original vanilla dungeons

Olupajmibanan

Actually, when I come down to compare ESO and WoW, the first thing that came to my mind was "damn, ESO end-game PvE is so much better". I am talking about trials not dungeons. Mechanics are more complex, gear barriers are lower...
There are only two things that WoW does better in terms of end-game PvE (raids):
1. Frequency of releases.
2. Your dps does not depend on your FPS. In ESO even slight FPS decrease results in huge dps loss.

On the other hand, PvP is a lot better in WoW or in any other MMORPG.
Cyrodiil is just an aimless open-world PvP without higher purpose. The problem is caused by cumulative emperor leaderboard. Cumulative, where you can only advance and not fall is never a good thing when it comes to leaderboards, it kills any competition.
Battlegrounds were fun at start but after a lot of matches you realise that concept of 3 teams that works in Cyrodiil isn't working well in instanced small-scale PvP. And again, cumulative leaderboard. I thought that Cyrodiil lacked competition so they made BGs to compensate and then they came again with this cumulative excrement. Ranked mode, where you can advance but fall as well, is a true PvP competition. Not expecting this any time soon if ever.

Pops_ND_Irish

Kalgert wrote: »

That instanced content in ESO is cold diarrhea in a dixie cup compared to WoW.

As far as games are concerned: ESO is fun. It looks lovely, the open world is consistently relevant, and it has quite a few other things to it that make it enjoyable and worth playing.

But the instanced PvE side of things.. UURGH. WoW may not be a saint or anything, but it's far superior when it comes to instanced stuff. It's consistent, it is straightforward, the difficulty of dungeons and the like aren't determined by the level of where a dungeon is located or whether or not it has been added in as extra content that you'd have to pay for.

While in ESO, it's a mess. Dungeons and their difficulty rating are all over the place, some where they can be soloed while others are the kind of difficult that make it feel like a waste of time to even press your head against them.

Part of it probably also comes down to how gameplay and the design is. It's tab-targetting, ans character progression has you get gear that has better numbers than what you currently have, and the ability choices set fairly in stone depending on your specialization. Also the rotations are straightforward as well, so success isn't too difficult to achieve.

Meanwhile in ESO you have more freedom yes, but that freedom does come at a bit of a cost. First you decide what you want to do (Let's say a Mage). Okay, decided on a class, but now what? Well, go out and hunt for specific pieces of gear that boost magic stuff. But wait, races have passives that boost your performance even further. So an Orc Mage ain't that good. Okay, gonna be an Altmer Dragon Kni- Wait, Dunmer are better suited as Dragon Knights due to all the fire damage. Best to reroll a third time.

Okay, now I finally got my choices down, now to find specific gear sets that deal with Fire Damage and maybe some other stuff. After some time hunting for those, I have everything needed, now I will certainly do great fire damage! Wait... Why is my damage output not that great, compared to this other guy who is doing a million billion DPS? And that guy is only putting down one AoE ability and maybe some other ability at most, while I am spamming all of my abilities to the best of my abilities, even trying to perform a staff-swap trick (Something I did for my mage) to get the most speed.

Long story short: WoW is more consistent with classes, dungeons and abilities. ESO is not.

In fact, the only thing I'll say ESO is good for is outdoor content. Anything else and it is... Eeeh... Well... Kinda ***, actually.

Bye oh ya send stuff !

pkuronen

Wow just looks horrible. If they updated it to look like 2018 game then I am all sold.

thedude33

Mr_Walker wrote: »

The only thing I would say here is that I would prefer he more difficult dungeons to also be shorter. Sometimes (a lot of the time), a DLC dungeon is too much of a time commitment.

lol, I'm guessing you never played EQ

Elwendryll

I believe people keep playing WoW because of the time/money invested in it, and the community. Because, objectively, if WoW and ESO were to be released the same year at their current state, WoW wouldn't have the same success. I just personally find the WoW gameplay to be awfully clunky and slow, and overall the game visuals are just greatly unappealing to me, both design and quality.

On a side note, I started playing Heroes of the Storm because of a cross event with rewards on Overwatch. I really enjoyed the game, and I discovered some of the Warcraft lore, some of my favorite characters are from this universe. And, I guess the lore is awesome. But the little experience I had on WoW was awful. As a new character, repetitive soul sucking quests, and as a maxed out character... well the same. I did daily quests for a girl on her maxed out character for like two weeks until she agreed to date me (Yeah, that's how you seduce a nerd). Having 3 bars full of skills, and buffs that last 2 hours... well.

ATomiX96

pkuronen wrote: »

Wow just looks horrible. If they updated it to look like 2018 game then I am all sold.

you cant do that with an 14 year old game, say what you want but I feel like the graphics of WoW make WoW what it is, it feels like an old classic mmorpg with decent gameplay and amazing lore. Also... performance, thats what drives me away from ESO, and before all White Knights jump in and say "WOW LOOKS POTATO" im talking about server performance in PvP there is no excuse for how *** it has been the last year.


Also... I would love to see some results from the developer team and not just "Work in progress", "We are investigating whats causing the issues", "We are aware of the issues" for like 2 years straight

Tandor

thedude33 wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

The only thing I would say here is that I would prefer he more difficult dungeons to also be shorter. Sometimes (a lot of the time), a DLC dungeon is too much of a time commitment.

lol, I'm guessing you never played EQ

I'd love to see the modern lot of "instant gratification/account wide everything" players have a crack at EQ ! They'd enjoy the time taken for a level, not to mention losing it again a few fights later, and the downtime between each fight ! "But I've got all those skills on my dr00d, surely I don't have to spend another two years leveling up my rouge?" !

todokete

PvP in WoW doesn't have ping or performance issues where my abilities don't fire.
ESO has tab-target combat, you can enable it in the settings ( I sometimes use it in Bg's for people that move a lot)
Dungeon finder is not broken in WoW.

Jake1576

Here are the things that ruin the game for me on console bugs that get released with every update even tho zos has fixed them on PC already but yet puts them on console and we have to wait weeks to months for a fix bots nothing gets done about them lag is terrible on console especially in pvp at primetime the game is unplayable hell it's unplayable right now cause of all the bugs they put into the game with murkmire i can't even use my damn attack's like jabs dizzy swing snipe I'm certain a game like wow would not let bugs this game breaking go unchecked for to long I only wished we had a better variate of mmorpgs on console if we did I would be playing another game besides eso or and I edited my post just now to add something else another thing that bothers me is the lack of moderation eso gets on console they don't moderate anything on console and that is the reason why people get away with exploiting on console and zone chat is so toxic at times it feels like I'm playing a game where is was only made for console to be a cash cow for them and just to forget about the player's and their concerns and needs their is a loading screen on PS4 that talks about game masters yeah right they never existed on console to begin with

Bam_Bam

ATomiX96 wrote: »

pkuronen wrote: »

Wow just looks horrible. If they updated it to look like 2018 game then I am all sold.

you cant do that with an 14 year old game, say what you want but I feel like the graphics of WoW make WoW what it is, it feels like an old classic mmorpg with decent gameplay and amazing lore. Also... performance, thats what drives me away from ESO, and before all White Knights jump in and say "WOW LOOKS POTATO" im talking about server performance in PvP there is no excuse for how *** it has been the last year.

Server performance is fine in Cyrodiil ATM

As for WoW - it's a kiddies game. Even watching a gameplay vid of WoW makes me feel like I've lost a bunch of IQ . . .

Kalgert

It seems a lot of people here either failed to read the entire post, or read the first line of dialogue and jumped to conclusions that I hate everything about the game and that it is horrible.

I quite admire the game. The open world stays relevant if you're starting off or if you are max level. The game looks pretty, there is creative freedom to how you can make a character, gameplay isn't too bad. Overall, the game is clearly a videogame.

The one thing I think is absolutely terrible however is the endgame, and how with the freedom of character creation, the odds of becoming successful are next to very difficult. Now, is this a good thing? Well, considering that someone in this thread shared that he is having qualms woth doing a rotation someone else is doing, and the DPS difference is rather sognificant, I would say "How to be successful when it's a random chance if what someone is doing is capable of being replicated with the exact same results?".

I think people would be more willing to concede that they're doing something a bit off, if they didn't then turn around to see someone effortlessly dealing a bunch of damage just by dropping one or two AoE abilities.

But hey, apparently me saying "Game is fine, except..." is somehow against the law here, and there will be a bunch of bleeding hearts jumping in to desperately defend a game that is flawed while still fine.

ATomiX96

Bam_Bam wrote: »

ATomiX96 wrote: »

pkuronen wrote: »

Wow just looks horrible. If they updated it to look like 2018 game then I am all sold.

you cant do that with an 14 year old game, say what you want but I feel like the graphics of WoW make WoW what it is, it feels like an old classic mmorpg with decent gameplay and amazing lore. Also... performance, thats what drives me away from ESO, and before all White Knights jump in and say "WOW LOOKS POTATO" im talking about server performance in PvP there is no excuse for how *** it has been the last year.

Server performance is fine in Cyrodiil ATM

As for WoW - it's a kiddies game. Even watching a gameplay vid of WoW makes me feel like I've lost a bunch of IQ . . .

its definitly ok to play with 200 baseline ping in cyrodiil where you have to press your buttons 4 times before the skill fires after 5 seconds .... yea its ok if you are just zerging and sitting in the 24 man lfg smallscale. SMH


for reference, to other games like CSGO, Overwatch and so on my ping is between 8-40ms

also as an additional reference, I dont live too far away (~250km) from where the ESO PC-EU server is located (Frankfurt / Germany)

MattT1988

Bam_Bam wrote: »

ATomiX96 wrote: »

pkuronen wrote: »

Wow just looks horrible. If they updated it to look like 2018 game then I am all sold.

you cant do that with an 14 year old game, say what you want but I feel like the graphics of WoW make WoW what it is, it feels like an old classic mmorpg with decent gameplay and amazing lore. Also... performance, thats what drives me away from ESO, and before all White Knights jump in and say "WOW LOOKS POTATO" im talking about server performance in PvP there is no excuse for how *** it has been the last year.

Server performance is fine in Cyrodiil ATM

Speak for yourself. It really isn’t for a big chunk of the playerbase on all platforms. I’d even dare to say your in the absolute minority.

pkuronen

MattT1988 wrote: »

Bam_Bam wrote: »

ATomiX96 wrote: »

pkuronen wrote: »

Wow just looks horrible. If they updated it to look like 2018 game then I am all sold.

you cant do that with an 14 year old game, say what you want but I feel like the graphics of WoW make WoW what it is, it feels like an old classic mmorpg with decent gameplay and amazing lore. Also... performance, thats what drives me away from ESO, and before all White Knights jump in and say "WOW LOOKS POTATO" im talking about server performance in PvP there is no excuse for how *** it has been the last year.

Server performance is fine in Cyrodiil ATM

Speak for yourself. It really isn’t for a big chunk of the playerbase on all platforms. I’d even dare to say your in the absolute minority.

Have to agree here. When factions are full and I am with a large group it is very likely that I need to kill ESO for a few times due to loading screen. Also the lag makes fighting very challenging - in a way it is not supposed to be.

Elsonso

Bam_Bam wrote: »

Server performance is fine in Cyrodiil ATM

This is an interesting statement, even if it is out of context in a thread that is, itself, out of bounds on the forum.

ATomiX96 wrote: »

its definitly ok to play with 200 baseline ping in cyrodiil where you have to press your buttons 4 times before the skill fires after 5 seconds .... yea its ok if you are just zerging and sitting in the 24 man lfg smallscale. SMH

for reference, to other games like CSGO, Overwatch and so on my ping is between 8-40ms

This is what I expect for Cyrodiil.

By the way, games like CSGO and Overwatch are not ESO and ESO is not intended to be like CSGO. Comparisons are irrelevant. I know that CSGO has little servers scattered all over the world. ESO has big servers in two different locations. CSGO servers are designed around small team play, so the server caps are likely set far lower than what a Cyrodiil campaign is set for. This makes CSGO a poor measuring stick for ESO performance. I suggest you select something that is more on par with ESO.

Wildberryjack

In World of Warcraft you do not have any choice in how you build your character. For each class and spec there is only one way to do it. There is only one way to gear your character as well. That isn't better in any way, it's boring. And it's idiot simple.

End game content in WoW isn't better, it's simply different. They have too many levels of difficulty and there isn't enough difference between them to matter. As with character builds, there is only one way to do the end game content in WoW. There is never any variation at all, it's cookie cutter.

In this game it is more challenging to be at the highest level because you have so many choices and options in your character build and gear. In World of Warcraft the entire game is on rails, you are guided at every step in every way because only one way actually works. There is no variation, and that, in my opinion, makes it extremely dull.

As for WoWs server stability, no. I would have massive FPS drops out of nowhere, lag spikes that made the game unplayable, and random disconnections constantly. In fact that was a very common complaint on the board, especially the FPS drops and the lag spikes . As for bugs in the game, don't even get me started, there are some bugs still there that have been there since before Cataclysm!

All of that, combined with the extremely slow and clunky gameplay, the professions being utterly worthless, there being no real reward system in the game (you spend hours playing and have absolutely nothing to show for your time), is what caused me to cancel my subscription to World of Warcraft and walk away recently. There is nothing about that game that is better than this one.

BleedMe_AnOcean

I've had the opposite experience. WoW bugs are NASTY, and there are times that the game is unplayable. I raided until right before ToS, but I stopped. The random disconnects and FPS drops did not please the raid leader in any way, and I refused to keep buying expensive PC parts with every expansion.

LFG is a joke in WoW. Good luck finding a decent group in the dungeon/raid finder. You'll need a guild for endgame content (unless you want LFG faceroll difficulty, and even then it's a crapshoot).

My opinion: WoW is boring. The quests are terrible and the instances are so buggy an exterminator won't even touch them.

Gargath

I was told once that WOW is mostly for kids who are the majority of players.
Also the graphic of WOW is a bit outdated and the world looks not convincing enough.

But I wouldn't compare WOW with ESO.
ESO is a huge lore and true part of great history told by the Elder Scrolls. Because I spent thousands of hours in Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim, it was natural I landed in ESO. While being here I can't be there. The lands of Tamriel are my world, I feel good here, that's all I need.

Kalgert

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

[edit to remove deleted content]

Was I talking about Sorcerers? Nope, talked about playing as a Mage-Mage. You know, using magic and everything. Same as I can say Warrior or Rogue/Assassin when describing a character based on what the playstyle's like. Or am I supposed to say StamX or MagY? No thanks.

And the part about me being "Bad" at the game... I don't know, pretty sure I'd be considered pretty amazing if being a Damage Dealer would have consistent performance (I bust my Kwama eggs off to scrape by with 12k on my MAGE Dragon Knight, but some hobo comes by, drops one AoE and deals 20k without problem).

Besides, I kinda came to terms that the PvE is cold diarrhea in a dixie cup in ESO, so I stopped bothering with it. So if I do ever decide to jump back to ESO while on one of my WoW breaks, I'll just work on my professions or go around and see the sights.

Dawnblade

They are similar but different games.

If you try to play ESO as you play WoW, you won't get the most out of it - the converse is also true, if you try to play WoW as you play ESO, you won't get the most out of it.

Both give off an appearance of simplicity (mostly as both need the support of lots of casual players), yet both have a lot of detail and complexity to master in order to perform competitively at end-game.

That said - anyone saying ESO has more and / or more challenging end-game content has not played WoW, and certainly not at end-game.