Thank you ZOS - tonight's patch fixing DW Enchants, Pets, Cast Time Aiming et al

JimmyJuJu

Duukar wrote: »

They LET it go live when warned by players and class team leads on the PTS that it was terrible...

Why did they make us go through this?

I laugh at all the fools who spent mats golding out torugs pieces. Serves them right!

There are many monikers for this: Agile, fail forward, fail often, fail early, succeed sooner, I could go on. Anyway, this is how modern software (games included) is built. Take an idea, quickly deliver a minimum viable product (MVP), then iterate on that foundation to improve. Like it or not, we players are constantly engaging in user acceptance testing. We provide feedback via bug reports, community forums, and class reps.

If it weren't done this way, we would have a solid and stable release about every 18 months. And ZOS would be bankrupt.

That's why.

_Ahala_

A step in the right direction

LiquidPony

Thogard wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Olquorron wrote: »

The fix for dual wield enchants literally does nothing to address the game-breaking problem in PvP, which is that enchants will proc from any weapon DoT. It's a very simple fix which does not require a nerf to anything: just remove the ability of DoTs to proc weapon enchants.

I disagree.

Weapon DoTs have been proccing enchants since the first Wolfhunter PTS, nearly 4 months ago. That behavior, in and of itself, is not an issue.

And it would be a significant nerf to everyone in PvE. For meta builds, it will result in a huge reduction in Berserker uptime on stamina DPS, a huge loss to sustain (via the Absorb Magicka glyph) on magicka DPS, and a huge reduction in Crusher/Weakening/Minor Vulnerability uptime for support roles.

No.

AOE / ground target dots that are not purgeable (blade cloak, volley, wall of elements) have been proccing the 4s enchants but not the 10s enchants like berserker, armor debuff, dmg shield, etc. DoTs that do their dmg by being applied as status effects would not previously proc weapon enchants.

Now the status effect (purgeable) dots can proc wep enchants, and they can proc both the 4s and the 10s enchants.

This is a massive change because it no longer requires you to barswap on every GCD to proc them reliably.

But you are correct in that prior to this patch, a player who is comfortable bar swapping every GCD and is proficient with light attack weaving could have the same effect... they just would have to make sure they stay in LOS of the target.

Now I can rend someone and walk away and the oblivion dmg follows that person (status effect for them) rather than me (through blade cloak, recast of WoE, etc)

What are you saying "no" to?

The requested change I replied to was: "remove the ability of DoTs to proc weapon enchants."

If DoTs don't proc weapon enchants then we can't keep enchants up with WoE/Hail. There's no differentiation between AoE DoTs and single-target DoTs in that request.

And I'm a bit confused by the use of "status effect" here. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see what status effects have to do with anything. Poison Injection is a single-target DoT that can proc enchants, and it can also proc the Poisoned status effect, but in and of itself Poison Injection is just a DoT, not a status effect.

nadrokal

Milchbart wrote: »

Istyar wrote: »

Milchbart wrote: »

Pets are not fixed!

If vMSA is an "arena" then pets are not fixed.
They still die a lot and even from mobs.

Should they take less damage in vMA too?

patch notes don't distinguish between solo or group arena.
It just says "arena".

It does, in fact. And it did since the update was released. "Combat pets will now take 0 damage while in a Dungeon, Trial, or Group Arena."

Waffennacht

LiquidPony wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Olquorron wrote: »

The fix for dual wield enchants literally does nothing to address the game-breaking problem in PvP, which is that enchants will proc from any weapon DoT. It's a very simple fix which does not require a nerf to anything: just remove the ability of DoTs to proc weapon enchants.

I disagree.

Weapon DoTs have been proccing enchants since the first Wolfhunter PTS, nearly 4 months ago. That behavior, in and of itself, is not an issue.

And it would be a significant nerf to everyone in PvE. For meta builds, it will result in a huge reduction in Berserker uptime on stamina DPS, a huge loss to sustain (via the Absorb Magicka glyph) on magicka DPS, and a huge reduction in Crusher/Weakening/Minor Vulnerability uptime for support roles.

No.

AOE / ground target dots that are not purgeable (blade cloak, volley, wall of elements) have been proccing the 4s enchants but not the 10s enchants like berserker, armor debuff, dmg shield, etc. DoTs that do their dmg by being applied as status effects would not previously proc weapon enchants.

Now the status effect (purgeable) dots can proc wep enchants, and they can proc both the 4s and the 10s enchants.

This is a massive change because it no longer requires you to barswap on every GCD to proc them reliably.

But you are correct in that prior to this patch, a player who is comfortable bar swapping every GCD and is proficient with light attack weaving could have the same effect... they just would have to make sure they stay in LOS of the target.

Now I can rend someone and walk away and the oblivion dmg follows that person (status effect for them) rather than me (through blade cloak, recast of WoE, etc)

What are you saying "no" to?

The requested change I replied to was: "remove the ability of DoTs to proc weapon enchants."

If DoTs don't proc weapon enchants then we can't keep enchants up with WoE/Hail. There's no differentiation between AoE DoTs and single-target DoTs in that request.

And I'm a bit confused by the use of "status effect" here. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see what status effects have to do with anything. Poison Injection is a single-target DoT that can proc enchants, and it can also proc the Poisoned status effect, but in and of itself Poison Injection is just a DoT, not a status effect.

Well prior to murkmire poison injection would not proc any enchantment when you were not on the bow bar.... Or at all iirc.

Now it will proc a glyph and it will proc it when not on the bow bar as long as injection ticks for dmg

Facefister

Duukar wrote: »

They LET it go live when warned by players and class team leads on the PTS that it was terrible...

Why did they make us go through this?

I laugh at all the fools who spent mats golding out torugs pieces. Serves them right!

Never go with meta. The second or third best option is nearly as effective... but hey

Thogard

LiquidPony wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Olquorron wrote: »

The fix for dual wield enchants literally does nothing to address the game-breaking problem in PvP, which is that enchants will proc from any weapon DoT. It's a very simple fix which does not require a nerf to anything: just remove the ability of DoTs to proc weapon enchants.

I disagree.

Weapon DoTs have been proccing enchants since the first Wolfhunter PTS, nearly 4 months ago. That behavior, in and of itself, is not an issue.

And it would be a significant nerf to everyone in PvE. For meta builds, it will result in a huge reduction in Berserker uptime on stamina DPS, a huge loss to sustain (via the Absorb Magicka glyph) on magicka DPS, and a huge reduction in Crusher/Weakening/Minor Vulnerability uptime for support roles.

No.

AOE / ground target dots that are not purgeable (blade cloak, volley, wall of elements) have been proccing the 4s enchants but not the 10s enchants like berserker, armor debuff, dmg shield, etc. DoTs that do their dmg by being applied as status effects would not previously proc weapon enchants.

Now the status effect (purgeable) dots can proc wep enchants, and they can proc both the 4s and the 10s enchants.

This is a massive change because it no longer requires you to barswap on every GCD to proc them reliably.

But you are correct in that prior to this patch, a player who is comfortable bar swapping every GCD and is proficient with light attack weaving could have the same effect... they just would have to make sure they stay in LOS of the target.

Now I can rend someone and walk away and the oblivion dmg follows that person (status effect for them) rather than me (through blade cloak, recast of WoE, etc)

What are you saying "no" to?

The requested change I replied to was: "remove the ability of DoTs to proc weapon enchants."

If DoTs don't proc weapon enchants then we can't keep enchants up with WoE/Hail. There's no differentiation between AoE DoTs and single-target DoTs in that request.

And I'm a bit confused by the use of "status effect" here. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see what status effects have to do with anything. Poison Injection is a single-target DoT that can proc enchants, and it can also proc the Poisoned status effect, but in and of itself Poison Injection is just a DoT, not a status effect.

If you’re getting hit by a poison injection dot, a rending slashses dot, a carve dot, etc.. you can use a templar’s Ritual to purge yourself of the dot. When you cleanse it, you no longer take dmg. When you are taking dmg from it, you can see the ability’s icon on your status effect bar.

You can’t cleanse a wall of elements, a blade cloak, or a volley. They are not status effects - when you are affected by them you do not see their icon show up on your status effect bar.

The “no” was to your claim that weapon DoTs have been proccing weapon enchants since wolf hunter... but that isn’t accurate. Only AOE dots have been proccing weapon enchants.

glavius

Facefister wrote: »

Duukar wrote: »

They LET it go live when warned by players and class team leads on the PTS that it was terrible...

Why did they make us go through this?

I laugh at all the fools who spent mats golding out torugs pieces. Serves them right!

Never go with meta. The second or third best option is nearly as effective... but hey

Ohh, Torugs is still very good :-)

JumpmanLane

Olquorron wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Olquorron , you have only two weapon DoTs in DW line, and they have low tick rate. And ground AoEs were able to proc enchants for many months now, but it wasn't causing issues.

You clearly haven't been playing PvP in Murkmire. It's utterly broken in PvP -- TWO sources of unavoidable damage continuing to proc along with a bleed from rending slashes. A single skill that is easy to land. If the assailant is using infused Torug's and also has a bit of pressure, nobody can outheal that.

Most of the nerds using that cheese run straight at you all intent upon getting to melee range. 1 dodge roll, a couple of whips later they are dead or running (LOSing hehehehe).

Colecovision

I guess I get to keep my 1200 hps from my bow. And the extra health and resistance in addition to the dps and sustain on my stamblade. Great news! It really is, let me explain.

It's been fun. At first it was just stupid op and I wanted a turogs nerf, but then I realized I should just go do the content that was unavailable to me before. I haven't had a true buff to my character in a very long and truth be told, I hit my wall.

With the buff, I easily found new challenges and it feels a lot like when I first moved into soloing normal dungeons. New stuff to do! I'm working through the craglorn bosses and I can finally do the rifts on my own. I've died a few times, so for my skills, there is appropriately balanced content for me to enjoy. If you're a 60k dpser, I get it, you're limited. But, I'm hitting every new challenge while I can.

Kvatch arena solo was fun too btw. Infused turogs for the win!!!

MehrunesFlagon

DjinnRa wrote: »

Quite frankly you don't know how good you have it with this game. No game is perfect and you can not please everyone. They can't make every change everyone wants. But at least they listen and if they see our point and agree then they do make changes. And they try to fix bugs as fast as possible instead of letting them sit for years till it reaches the point it's obvious they don't intend to bother fixing them at all.

I just walked away from a game that:

• Pushed live an expansion that was not ready and is full of game breaking bugs that were reported over and over again in beta.
• Pushed live an expansion with two classes not viable, by their own admission, saying oh we'll fix them later.
• Pushed live an expansion that was literally nothing but a watered down copy and paste of the previous one.
• Nerfed some classes into the ground and made them non-viable when they only needed to be brought down a little.
• Can't even balance PvE let alone PvP where only two classes are good for either and the rest you may as well not bother.
• Have bugs from over four expansions ago that they still have not fixed.
• Will not listen to their playerbase, instead they are very condescending and tell us we aren't playing the game right if we're not having fun.
• Introduced a gear reward system that was so RNG it is insane, and it does NOT reward you based on effort but rather it is all pure luck and someone far less skilled who does easier content can get the same gear level a mythic player does.
• Completely ruined and devalued professions, so anyone who enjoyed that too bad so sad.
• Decided to slow down gameplay by putting 95% of our abilities on the GCD, so now you can literally fight with one finger of one hand; push a button and wait, push another button and wait, push another button then wait again ad nauseum.
• And lost approx 1.5 million subs in 9 weeks of that expansions launch because of the above as well as a ton of other issues, many years old and never addressed.

and this game is ESO

Gargath

Duukar wrote: »

I laugh at all the fools who spent mats golding out torugs pieces. Serves them right!

Naming and shaming detected.
I could also laugh at the salty likes of you, when killing you blindly in PvP with a finger in my nose, but I rather preferred to collect champion achievements .

These moments of cheery carnage will be long remembered.

If you are a scrub but you rock, even a single day of this feeling is definitely worth a few gold mats for Torug's, especially if you have plenty in bank. And believe me, the Torug's infused is still decent set in PvE, killing like mad.