Bastion. Is there any reason to put points in it now?

Sennecca

If I'm reading the notes correctly, damage shields are still capped at a percent max health. Does Bastion do anything for any skill?

Olupajmibanan

It's useful for any shields (shield sets, Bon Shield, Radiant Ward, Steadfast Ward etc.) except for Conjured Ward and Annulment if these are hitting the health cap.

It becomes a certain situation only CP like Resistant or Siphoner.

karekiz

I just moved my sorcs points from bastion into Physical/spell resists. I figure since i'm already capped, but they get extra bonus from our mitagation might as well boost the shield the other way.

MJallday

completely useless. move them out of bastion and whack them into resistances.

Sparr0w

Increases shield size, so basically no unless you run a spell damage build so aren't quite at the 40/50% hp cap.

Kadoin

Only if you use shielding proc sets or ults.

MartiniDaniels

Sparr0w wrote: »

Increases shield size, so basically no unless you run a spell damage build so aren't quite at the 40/50% hp cap.

Are there tests confirming that bastion is applied before cap?

Jakx

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5553467#Comment_5553467

Jakx wrote: »

Is this really their intended use of Bastion now? It nearly makes the passive entirely irrelevant. Something that seems like it must be an oversight with the changes.

It would be great to get some clarification on Bastion and if its intended to still provide the bonus that it gives with the shield changes. @ZOS_GinaBruno

The two best suggestions Ive seen if Bastion is to be made relevant again are to (1)create a direct counter to Shattering Blows (the developers have said that CP options are supposed to cancel each other out so wheres the counter to Shattering Blows? Bastion is ready made) OR (2)Bastion could now increase the shield cap.

Olupajmibanan

I can see some PvE stamina players experimenting with Bastion and Bone Shield for AS and CR.

Sennecca

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

It's useful for any shields (shield sets, Bon Shield, Radiant Ward, Steadfast Ward etc.) except for Conjured Ward and Annulment if these are hitting the health cap.

It becomes a certain situation only CP like Resistant or Siphoner.

So does this means that it would be useful to stamina users and any one who has access to any other shield besides annulment and conjured ward? ???

Krymzonbladez

So useless for everyone who actually needs it.

MartiniDaniels

Krymzonbladez wrote: »

So useless for everyone who actually needs it.

Works good on PUG tank. With 40k health and 20% from bastion, i got 36% shields = 14k, allows to soften hits from those behemoth werewolves etc, allows 3dd run etc etc etc

starkerealm

Terral33 wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

It's useful for any shields (shield sets, Bon Shield, Radiant Ward, Steadfast Ward etc.) except for Conjured Ward and Annulment if these are hitting the health cap.

It becomes a certain situation only CP like Resistant or Siphoner.

So does this means that it would be useful to stamina users and any one who has access to any other shield besides annulment and conjured ward? ???

Pretty much. Also any tank spec that relies on Ward. It's still going to be pretty great for DKs, for example.

carlos424

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Krymzonbladez wrote: »

So useless for everyone who actually needs it.

Works good on PUG tank. With 40k health and 20% from bastion, i got 36% shields = 14k, allows to soften hits from those behemoth werewolves etc, allows 3dd run etc etc etc

Funny, I dont think devs planned to make tanks the only class the could really benefit from shields.

MakeMeUhSamich

So tanks in heavy armor = 14k shield yet my MagSorc in light armor = 8k shield.

Yep, makes total sense. /s

idk

For magicka DPS the passive is totally irrelevant.

However, that does not make it irrelevant in the game. For tanks (and stam DPS) it is still relevant since the shields they use typically already scale off max health but are not anywhere near the cap.

With the changes that pets could not die in group instanced content like trials Zos stated that the Eternal Guardian morph was not irrelevant since cases like PvP the bear could die. So limited usefulness is still sufficient to serve Zos' purposes.

FrancisCrawford

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Krymzonbladez wrote: »

So useless for everyone who actually needs it.

Works good on PUG tank. With 40k health and 20% from bastion, i got 36% shields = 14k, allows to soften hits from those behemoth werewolves etc, allows 3dd run etc etc etc

I thought Obsidian Shield was nerfed too.

MartiniDaniels

MakeMeUhSamich wrote: »

So tanks in heavy armor = 14k shield yet my MagSorc in light armor = 8k shield.

Yep, makes total sense. /s

Don't forget that tank shield has 33k resistance and actually i'm thinking about sorctank with 40k hp and high spell power

MartiniDaniels

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Krymzonbladez wrote: »

So useless for everyone who actually needs it.

Works good on PUG tank. With 40k health and 20% from bastion, i got 36% shields = 14k, allows to soften hits from those behemoth werewolves etc, allows 3dd run etc etc etc

I thought Obsidian Shield was nerfed too.

Slightly.. 14.5k bonewall, 11.5k igneous shield (in case of 40k hp)

Ermiq

MakeMeUhSamich wrote: »

So tanks in heavy armor = 14k shield yet my MagSorc in light armor = 8k shield.

Yep, makes total sense. /s

No reason to be sarcastic here. You know, it's fine for RPG game to have actual roles. Tank sacrifices the damage to be able to live longer while damage dealer has to sacrifice survivability to deal more damage. Moreover, in RPGs usually the healer is the only one who can resurrect people. Further more, he can do this only once per the fight or even per hour in some games.
ESO players are so casual actually. They used to be a combo terminators, who can be a tank, a healer and a DD all at once.

joaaocaampos

I already said it on PTS. Bastion needs to be fixed:

• Increases the effectiveness of damage absorbing effects by [0-25]%.
• Reduces damage taken while using a damage shield ability by [0-25]%.

SirAndy

Took out all the points on my Pet Sorc and hardened ward is still at the exact same number, capped at 50%.

So no, for that build there was no reason to keep any points there.

Crafts_Many_Boxes

joaaocaampos wrote: »

I already said it on PTS. Bastion needs to be fixed:

• Increases the effectiveness of damage absorbing effects by [0-25]%.
• Reduces damage taken while using a damage shield ability by [0-25]%.

The reason this will never happen is because this would make shields almost as strong as they used to be. The whole point of the change was to "make sorcs choose between high damage and survivability".

Obviously most of us, myself included, think this is utter BS, but the devs clearly have their own vision of this game now, and it doesn't align with popular sentiment anymore.

Transairion

I had 100 CP in Bastion (due to only using a single shield as like, my only defence) and tried to test the change to Bastion by removing all that CP and testing tooltips: Pre-Murkmire the shield was around 20k, post-Murkmire no CP the tooltip was around 6k and with 100 CP in Bastion the shield went to about 7-8k.

So does Bastion apply on top of the Shield Cap?

Or is the shield going up because spending CP in the red tree (where Bastion is) adds Health, and health is changing the shield value?

I feel like I'm misunderstanding, so please help me get it

starkerealm

carlos424 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Krymzonbladez wrote: »

So useless for everyone who actually needs it.

Works good on PUG tank. With 40k health and 20% from bastion, i got 36% shields = 14k, allows to soften hits from those behemoth werewolves etc, allows 3dd run etc etc etc

Funny, I dont think devs planned to make tanks the only class the could really benefit from shields.

Pretty sure Sorcs and Light Armor characters still benefit from Ward and Annulment. Thing is, I know the devs never planned on those two skills making Sorcs, and other mag builds immortal.

Also funny, Bastion is in a constellation where the primary focus is tanking. Increase the effectiveness of healing received? Increase effectiveness of Heal Pots? Increase the effectiveness of shields, which is still the DK's primary survival mechanism... Sounds like it's in the right place.

starkerealm

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

Obviously most of us, myself included, think this is utter BS, but the devs clearly have their own vision of this game now, and it doesn't align with popular sentiment anymore.

You're saying that like it's a new thing. The devs have had a vision for the game since before launch. When players have found ways to break that approach, things have gotten nerfed. This has been going on for four years now.

SirAndy

Transairion wrote: »

So does Bastion apply on top of the Shield Cap?

@Transairion

No, which is why it is useless for builds that already hit the cap without any points in Bastion.

Emma_Overload

You still need it in PvP, but in PvE you're better off putting your CP elsewhere.

Neoealth

ZOS owes me 3k gold for forcing me to take the points out of bastion

TheDarkoil

I have 54k max magicka. Bastion no longer has any effect on my shield, nor does changing from empowered ward to hardened ward. I have no idea at what amount of magicka pushes my shield to the 40% health cap but there is no way of going past it beyond increasing max health. I understand that they want to limit shield size but there should be some exceptions like the 2 examples I have given.

VaxtinTheWolf

I feel kind of indifferent about this. No real feelings about this one way or another so I'll just provide my own numbers.

On my sorcerer tank with 40k magicka, 25k health and 20% invested in Bastion, it provided me a Hardened Ward shield somewhere around 20-22k. After the update that has fallen to about 12-13k. After removing all points from the Bastion CP node, the shield tooltip is just over 12k. I have split those points between quick recovery and Heavy Armor focus, to even out my resistances since I also use Torug's Pact as one of the gear sets.

On my Stamina Templar tank, With health varying between 35-40k and also investing 20% in the Bastion CP node, Blazing Shield grants me a value around 14k. Purple quality Brands of the Imperium set also has a value of around 14k for me.