Bastion. Is there any reason to put points in it now?

Digiman · October 2018

Eremith wrote: »

MakeMeUhSamich wrote: »

So tanks in heavy armor = 14k shield yet my MagSorc in light armor = 8k shield.

Yep, makes total sense. /s

No reason to be sarcastic here. You know, it's fine for RPG game to have actual roles. Tank sacrifices the damage to be able to live longer while damage dealer has to sacrifice survivability to deal more damage. Moreover, in RPGs usually the healer is the only one who can resurrect people. Further more, he can do this only once per the fight or even per hour in some games.
ESO players are so casual actually. They used to be a combo terminators, who can be a tank, a healer and a DD all at once.

@Eremith

No reason to be stupid here either....

Sorcerers and magicka DPS didn't get a damage buff to compensate either, nor healing to compensate and make them squishy!

I don't care about other RPG's this is ESO. So take your own advice or have you forgotten ESO's golden rule which is play as you like?

MartiniDaniels · October 2018

SirAndy wrote: »

Took out all the points on my Pet Sorc and hardened ward is still at the exact same number, capped at 50%.

So no, for that build there was no reason to keep any points there.

It probably works different for HP% shields and H

Digiman wrote: »

Eremith wrote: »

MakeMeUhSamich wrote: »

So tanks in heavy armor = 14k shield yet my MagSorc in light armor = 8k shield.

Yep, makes total sense. /s

No reason to be sarcastic here. You know, it's fine for RPG game to have actual roles. Tank sacrifices the damage to be able to live longer while damage dealer has to sacrifice survivability to deal more damage. Moreover, in RPGs usually the healer is the only one who can resurrect people. Further more, he can do this only once per the fight or even per hour in some games.
ESO players are so casual actually. They used to be a combo terminators, who can be a tank, a healer and a DD all at once.

@Eremith

No reason to be stupid here either....

Sorcerers and magicka DPS didn't get a damage buff to compensate either, nor healing to compensate and make them squishy!

I don't care about other RPG's this is ESO. So take your own advice or have you forgotten ESO's golden rule which is play as you like?

Lol, your ability damage is scaled with amount of magicka, but tank damage is not scaled with health.. so it's all right from logic side, but question is about balance of those numbers. Obviously PVE became harder for tanks because magdps are more squishy now, so they are dead more often and also require additional healer resources which otherwise might be spent on tank.

starkerealm · October 2018

Digiman wrote: »

Eremith wrote: »

MakeMeUhSamich wrote: »

So tanks in heavy armor = 14k shield yet my MagSorc in light armor = 8k shield.

Yep, makes total sense. /s

No reason to be sarcastic here. You know, it's fine for RPG game to have actual roles. Tank sacrifices the damage to be able to live longer while damage dealer has to sacrifice survivability to deal more damage. Moreover, in RPGs usually the healer is the only one who can resurrect people. Further more, he can do this only once per the fight or even per hour in some games.
ESO players are so casual actually. They used to be a combo terminators, who can be a tank, a healer and a DD all at once.

@Eremith

No reason to be stupid here either....

Sorcerers and magicka DPS didn't get a damage buff to compensate either, nor healing to compensate and make them squishy!

I don't care about other RPG's this is ESO. So take your own advice or have you forgotten ESO's golden rule which is play as you like?

Mag based damage is already off the charts.

So, yes, play as you like, @Digiman, make a sorc that is durable, or make a glass canon, but don't make a glass canon that is also invincible, because that's not balanced.

SirAndy · October 2018

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Took out all the points on my Pet Sorc and hardened ward is still at the exact same number, capped at 50%.
So no, for that build there was no reason to keep any points there.

It probably works different for HP% shields and H

@MartiniDaniels

Hardened Ward *is* a health % shield, capped at 50% of your max health ...

MusekininKanchou · October 2018

MakeMeUhSamich wrote: »

So tanks in heavy armor = 14k shield yet my MagSorc in light armor = 8k shield.

Yep, makes total sense. /s

Could be worse. My mag warden with the morph thats caped at 40 only gets 5k. Whats the point of geting magika back from three hits when an unarmed Breton peasant punches harder than that.

joaaocaampos · October 2018

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

joaaocaampos wrote: »

I already said it on PTS. Bastion needs to be fixed:
Increases the effectiveness of damage absorbing effects by [0-25]%.

Reduces damage taken while using a damage shield ability by [0-25]%.

The reason this will never happen is because this would make shields almost as strong as they used to be. The whole point of the change was to "make sorcs choose between high damage and survivability".

Obviously most of us, myself included, think this is utter BS, but the devs clearly have their own vision of this game now, and it doesn't align with popular sentiment anymore.

@Crafts_Many_Boxes Champion Points are made of counterpoints if you don't know! Bastion is weak now, but Shattering Blows is not! I'm not worried if the shields will get stronger. I'm worried that Bastion doesn't oppose Shattering Blows! If 25% (with 100 points) is too much, then put 15% for Bastion and Shattering Blows!

"Choose between high damage and survivability" This has nothing to do with Champion Points! After all, CP improves everything at once.

MartiniDaniels · October 2018

SirAndy wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Took out all the points on my Pet Sorc and hardened ward is still at the exact same number, capped at 50%.
So no, for that build there was no reason to keep any points there.

It probably works different for HP% shields and H

@MartiniDaniels

Hardened Ward *is* a health % shield, capped at 50% of your max health ...

No, it's spellpower shield capped by health. Otherwise it'll summon 20k shield at 40k HP.

pieratsos · October 2018

starkerealm wrote: »

Digiman wrote: »

Eremith wrote: »

MakeMeUhSamich wrote: »

So tanks in heavy armor = 14k shield yet my MagSorc in light armor = 8k shield.

Yep, makes total sense. /s

No reason to be sarcastic here. You know, it's fine for RPG game to have actual roles. Tank sacrifices the damage to be able to live longer while damage dealer has to sacrifice survivability to deal more damage. Moreover, in RPGs usually the healer is the only one who can resurrect people. Further more, he can do this only once per the fight or even per hour in some games.
ESO players are so casual actually. They used to be a combo terminators, who can be a tank, a healer and a DD all at once.

@Eremith

No reason to be stupid here either....

Sorcerers and magicka DPS didn't get a damage buff to compensate either, nor healing to compensate and make them squishy!

I don't care about other RPG's this is ESO. So take your own advice or have you forgotten ESO's golden rule which is play as you like?

Mag based damage is already off the charts.

So, yes, play as you like, @Digiman, make a sorc that is durable, or make a glass canon, but don't make a glass canon that is also invincible, because that's not balanced.

Except sorcs werent invincible glass cannons so what is this all about.

SirAndy · October 2018

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

No, it's spellpower shield capped by health. Otherwise it'll summon 20k shield at 40k HP.

Apples and oranges, a mag Sorc with a 20k hardened ward will hit like a wet noodle and not have enough magicka to heal or tank either, let alone dps.

And since this threat is about bastion, my point still stands, there are many mag Sorc builds out there that will see absolutely zero change in their shields when removing all points from bastion.

Datolite · October 2018

It still raises your proc shields from sets (Imperium, Lunar Bastion, etc.)

Shantu · October 2018

pieratsos wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Digiman wrote: »

Eremith wrote: »

MakeMeUhSamich wrote: »

So tanks in heavy armor = 14k shield yet my MagSorc in light armor = 8k shield.

Yep, makes total sense. /s

No reason to be sarcastic here. You know, it's fine for RPG game to have actual roles. Tank sacrifices the damage to be able to live longer while damage dealer has to sacrifice survivability to deal more damage. Moreover, in RPGs usually the healer is the only one who can resurrect people. Further more, he can do this only once per the fight or even per hour in some games.
ESO players are so casual actually. They used to be a combo terminators, who can be a tank, a healer and a DD all at once.

@Eremith

No reason to be stupid here either....

Sorcerers and magicka DPS didn't get a damage buff to compensate either, nor healing to compensate and make them squishy!

I don't care about other RPG's this is ESO. So take your own advice or have you forgotten ESO's golden rule which is play as you like?

Mag based damage is already off the charts.

So, yes, play as you like, @Digiman, make a sorc that is durable, or make a glass canon, but don't make a glass canon that is also invincible, because that's not balanced.

Except sorcs werent invincible glass cannons so what is this all about.

Agreed. Stacking of shields was the issue. Would have made much more sense just to remove the ability to stack them.

starkerealm · October 2018

SirAndy wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Took out all the points on my Pet Sorc and hardened ward is still at the exact same number, capped at 50%.
So no, for that build there was no reason to keep any points there.

It probably works different for HP% shields and H

@MartiniDaniels

Hardened Ward *is* a health % shield, capped at 50% of your max health ...

It works the same way for health scaling shields, though it does not allow health capped shields to exceed their limits.

fred4 · October 2018

Of course it's useful. I run Dampen on my mag NB in PvP. Got a shield addon. WIth 21K health and 20% Bastion (56 points), I needed to push magicka to 42K, before hitting cap. SInce I still run Swift jewelry and other compromises, I was actually nowhere near that cap.

Bastion will also be useful for anyone wearing Imperial Physique, in IC!

If you do run Necropotence and/or Bright Throat's, then you have to watch it. You also have to consider that Hardy / Elemental Defender / Light Armor Focus etc. now reduce damage to shields, so even when you are not at cap, it becomes an exercise in working out the balance. Due to diminishing returns in all stars, I don't think Bastion will ever be completely useless in PvP. PvE is a different matter.

If you have "too much" magicka, consider that you can get more spell damage / health by going with different foods / mundus / enchants (tri-stat). You could also go Protective on jewelry, reducing your damage before shields and lowering your magicka to just hit cap. Or swap out that high-magicka gain set for Spell Strategist to keep the damage. For example, if you swapped Necro for that set, you might find yourself adding some Bastion points back in. Talking about PvP here. I can see little use for Bastion in PvE on a magicka build.

JimmyJuJu · October 2018

It might make sense on a healer with Barrier slotted. Otherwise, meh.

Caligamy_ESO · October 2018

No

It's only purpose now is highlighting how well thought out this patch was.

Konstant_Tel_Necris · October 2018

Still useful, although not for mag sorc in PvE, unless you have other source of shields then Conjured Ward and Annulment.

Crafts_Many_Boxes · October 2018

joaaocaampos wrote: »

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

joaaocaampos wrote: »

I already said it on PTS. Bastion needs to be fixed:
Increases the effectiveness of damage absorbing effects by [0-25]%.

Reduces damage taken while using a damage shield ability by [0-25]%.

The reason this will never happen is because this would make shields almost as strong as they used to be. The whole point of the change was to "make sorcs choose between high damage and survivability".

Obviously most of us, myself included, think this is utter BS, but the devs clearly have their own vision of this game now, and it doesn't align with popular sentiment anymore.

@Crafts_Many_Boxes Champion Points are made of counterpoints if you don't know! Bastion is weak now, but Shattering Blows is not! I'm not worried if the shields will get stronger. I'm worried that Bastion doesn't oppose Shattering Blows! If 25% (with 100 points) is too much, then put 15% for Bastion and Shattering Blows!

"Choose between high damage and survivability" This has nothing to do with Champion Points! After all, CP improves everything at once.

I mean yeah I guess, but I mostly PvE so it shattering blows wasn't really on my radar. That is messed up though if shattering blows is still strong in pvp and bastion is essentially worthless for most dps now.