We need Counterplay to Snares and Roots at all 5 classes.

Anethum

At previous patches most punished by snares were 3 light and heavy armor users - nightblades and sorcerers. And less because of class passive, but wardens/
Only 1 option for them was - forced to use 2hander with forward momentum (manablade's meta last year+). Any alternatives.
Templars - op extended ritual counter everything thing, dk's - Reflective Scales last patches (damn good that have at least).
--
In next patch (from patchnotes) snare reduction going to be build into light armour, with sprint...Why? Esp sprint...let it empower some things related to magicka not this absurd. Counterproductive thing.
With only 4 seconds Forward momentum u make these 3 classes even more helpless vs roots and snares...
--
Main issue is in no counter options for certain classes.
And in not standartized snares - "Major, monor etc...".
And.
U just should give these options to above 3 classes. With sactificing something important but to be able.
And fit Snares to "Major, Minor"-classification. Thats all, problem solved...
Idea to add some reduction for snares and sprint to light armor is bad for armor type identity.
--
@ZOS_Wrobel ask "GIlliamtherogue" about this please. He know how this works and can tell what to do from all community as a trustful person.

idk

Medium armor has snare protection with the medium armor skill which is available to all while light armor has both the new slight reduction in snare effect and pure to work with leaving. It makes sense that heavy armor has fewer choices in this area as Zos seems to be implemented a movement speed penalty in combat to HA without slowing them down in a means that would hinder them running with a group.

casparian

idk wrote: »

Medium armor has snare protection with the medium armor skill which is available to all while light armor has both the new slight reduction in snare effect and pure to work with leaving. It makes sense that heavy armor has fewer choices in this area as Zos seems to be implemented a movement speed penalty in combat to HA without slowing them down in a means that would hinder them running with a group.

I'm really not sure what you're talking about. What heavy armor movement speed penalty? Are you aware that heavy armor stamina specs are the most mobile in the game, due to synergizing the best with Forward Momentum?

Anethum

guys question is more wide than shuffle or forward momentum

idk

casparian wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Medium armor has snare protection with the medium armor skill which is available to all while light armor has both the new slight reduction in snare effect and pure to work with leaving. It makes sense that heavy armor has fewer choices in this area as Zos seems to be implemented a movement speed penalty in combat to HA without slowing them down in a means that would hinder them running with a group.

I'm really not sure what you're talking about. What heavy armor movement speed penalty? Are you aware that heavy armor stamina specs are the most mobile in the game, due to synergizing the best with Forward Momentum?

Clearly I am speaking of armor passives and what Zos seems to be attempting. Not what is available via class skills or non class skills for movement.,

If you read the medium armor then have sprint speed boost. If you checkout LA then now have snare reduction (that OP mentions) and sprint cost reduction. That is what I was speaking about concerning the armor specific aspects OP mentioned and that is seems Zos is trying to create a separation.

The rest is simply what is available to everyone specifically related to snares.

Hope that clears it up. If more detail is needed please ask.

casparian

idk wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Medium armor has snare protection with the medium armor skill which is available to all while light armor has both the new slight reduction in snare effect and pure to work with leaving. It makes sense that heavy armor has fewer choices in this area as Zos seems to be implemented a movement speed penalty in combat to HA without slowing them down in a means that would hinder them running with a group.

I'm really not sure what you're talking about. What heavy armor movement speed penalty? Are you aware that heavy armor stamina specs are the most mobile in the game, due to synergizing the best with Forward Momentum?

Clearly I am speaking of armor passives and what Zos seems to be attempting. Not what is available via class skills or non class skills for movement.,

If you read the medium armor then have sprint speed boost. If you checkout LA then now have snare reduction (that OP mentions) and sprint cost reduction. That is what I was speaking about concerning the armor specific aspects OP mentioned and that is seems Zos is trying to create a separation.

The rest is simply what is available to everyone specifically related to snares.

Hope that clears it up. If more detail is needed please ask.

It seemed like you were saying that heavy armor is less mobile/speedy than the other specs. An orc in heavy armor has virtually the same sprint speed as the medium armor passive gives you, plus superior synergy with the game's best snare/root management tool. At best, that amounts in actual gameplay to a parity between the armor weights, and certainly not a slower feel to heavy armor.

Strider__Roshin

Dodge rolling needs to grant snare immunity as well as root immunity.

There also needs to be a major and minor system for snares

I get we need to reduce movement speed, but snares make this game unenjoyable.

idk

casparian wrote: »

idk wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Medium armor has snare protection with the medium armor skill which is available to all while light armor has both the new slight reduction in snare effect and pure to work with leaving. It makes sense that heavy armor has fewer choices in this area as Zos seems to be implemented a movement speed penalty in combat to HA without slowing them down in a means that would hinder them running with a group.

I'm really not sure what you're talking about. What heavy armor movement speed penalty? Are you aware that heavy armor stamina specs are the most mobile in the game, due to synergizing the best with Forward Momentum?

Clearly I am speaking of armor passives and what Zos seems to be attempting. Not what is available via class skills or non class skills for movement.,

If you read the medium armor then have sprint speed boost. If you checkout LA then now have snare reduction (that OP mentions) and sprint cost reduction. That is what I was speaking about concerning the armor specific aspects OP mentioned and that is seems Zos is trying to create a separation.

The rest is simply what is available to everyone specifically related to snares.

Hope that clears it up. If more detail is needed please ask.

It seemed like you were saying that heavy armor is less mobile/speedy than the other specs. An orc in heavy armor has virtually the same sprint speed as the medium armor passive gives you, plus superior synergy with the game's best snare/root management tool. At best, that amounts in actual gameplay to a parity between the armor weights, and certainly not a slower feel to heavy armor.

Simply put, when comparing the armors and their passives the orc part is clearly irrelevant when comparing the three armors.

Katahdin

I agree

Enough with roots and snares already!!!

NyassaV

I feel like magicka needs either a damage or a sustain buff seeing as on a stam build I can have almost 2k recovery and still do very meaningful damage but on a magic build I have to wear 1 sustain set and then maybe another set that helps sustain (like shackle) and still struggle at times. Also magicka heavy attacks suck so there is another way of fixing the issue.

ScruffyWhiskers

Daus wrote: »

Dodge rolling needs to grant snare immunity as well as root immunity.

There also needs to be a major and minor system for snares

I get we need to reduce movement speed, but snares make this game unenjoyable.

When fighting some stam builds, dodge rolling is pretty unenjoyable as well. And they do get a quasi snare immunity because you can't hit them with any single target snares. Cripple is useless against a dodge roller. Might change a little with the new update though.

And it's the combo of dodge roll plus snare removal and then the mad sprint to cover that creates a lot of the wanna be 1 v X heroes out there. Running around towers or the hill next to bleaks while you wait for the low CP guy to show up is really not quality gameplay. But that's just my opinion. And some of the stuff I'm forced to do to get kills isn't exactly great either so no real insult meant to those who choose to play differently. I will say that at least Wrobel and the combat team are trying some constructive approaches. One person's balance is another's nerf or buff so it's not easy.

casparian

idk wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

idk wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Medium armor has snare protection with the medium armor skill which is available to all while light armor has both the new slight reduction in snare effect and pure to work with leaving. It makes sense that heavy armor has fewer choices in this area as Zos seems to be implemented a movement speed penalty in combat to HA without slowing them down in a means that would hinder them running with a group.

I'm really not sure what you're talking about. What heavy armor movement speed penalty? Are you aware that heavy armor stamina specs are the most mobile in the game, due to synergizing the best with Forward Momentum?

Clearly I am speaking of armor passives and what Zos seems to be attempting. Not what is available via class skills or non class skills for movement.,

If you read the medium armor then have sprint speed boost. If you checkout LA then now have snare reduction (that OP mentions) and sprint cost reduction. That is what I was speaking about concerning the armor specific aspects OP mentioned and that is seems Zos is trying to create a separation.

The rest is simply what is available to everyone specifically related to snares.

Hope that clears it up. If more detail is needed please ask.

It seemed like you were saying that heavy armor is less mobile/speedy than the other specs. An orc in heavy armor has virtually the same sprint speed as the medium armor passive gives you, plus superior synergy with the game's best snare/root management tool. At best, that amounts in actual gameplay to a parity between the armor weights, and certainly not a slower feel to heavy armor.

Simply put, when comparing the armors and their passives the orc part is clearly irrelevant when comparing the three armors.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure ZOS looks at the game the same way you do. Which is how we've ended up in this mess.

idk

casparian wrote: »

idk wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

idk wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Medium armor has snare protection with the medium armor skill which is available to all while light armor has both the new slight reduction in snare effect and pure to work with leaving. It makes sense that heavy armor has fewer choices in this area as Zos seems to be implemented a movement speed penalty in combat to HA without slowing them down in a means that would hinder them running with a group.

I'm really not sure what you're talking about. What heavy armor movement speed penalty? Are you aware that heavy armor stamina specs are the most mobile in the game, due to synergizing the best with Forward Momentum?

Clearly I am speaking of armor passives and what Zos seems to be attempting. Not what is available via class skills or non class skills for movement.,

If you read the medium armor then have sprint speed boost. If you checkout LA then now have snare reduction (that OP mentions) and sprint cost reduction. That is what I was speaking about concerning the armor specific aspects OP mentioned and that is seems Zos is trying to create a separation.

The rest is simply what is available to everyone specifically related to snares.

Hope that clears it up. If more detail is needed please ask.

It seemed like you were saying that heavy armor is less mobile/speedy than the other specs. An orc in heavy armor has virtually the same sprint speed as the medium armor passive gives you, plus superior synergy with the game's best snare/root management tool. At best, that amounts in actual gameplay to a parity between the armor weights, and certainly not a slower feel to heavy armor.

Simply put, when comparing the armors and their passives the orc part is clearly irrelevant when comparing the three armors.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure ZOS looks at the game the same way you do. Which is how we've ended up in this mess.

LOL. seems more like an attempt at humor while putting words into my mouth. I am merely explaining to you what it seems has done with the armor passives as it is pretty obvious. That was the port you focused on.

Anethum

This passive is not important for light or heavy armor.
U still snared very hard with multiple different snares with or without passive. -20% to it's efficiency is nothing.
And u forced to use 2hander at magicka character.
it's terrible not enjoyable thing.
Wardens, nighblades and sorcerers should have class skills to counter to snares and roots.
instead something important but to have that option on every class.

@ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom, @ZOS_Wrobel Who should be linked to take attention at this question?

Nolic1

Snares were nerfed so bad that there is no use for them if you think 3 sec slow is bad it takes that time to do a dodge roll so they removed the idea on most snare to make then useless and it hurt both PvP and PvE and now with the movement nerfs the CC's have the same time frame so they just negate each other again making almost not effect or counter play to what used to be.

ak_pvp

Tl:Dr waah I don't like mechanic pls make me completely immune.

Anethum

ak_pvp wrote: »

Tl:Dr waah I don't like mechanic pls make me completely immune.

Everyone's angry when meet ice-aoe spammers now/
Just imagine what it wil be in next patch.
And any adequate option against...with weaker shields if not to do something with that...

I didn't asked immunity. But there should be some counter to them.
Snare removal or ...absorb to convert it's effect into buff (like increasing in % to the strengh of snare resists/vitality/speed buff after expiring) for u or resourses. or...sharing it with caster...or something another.
it can be done in very many ways, don't u agree?

Taleof2Cities

Daus wrote: »

I get we need to reduce movement speed, but snares make this game unenjoyable.

The upcoming reduction in movement speed does have some players (intentionally or unintentionally) scrambling to find something to offset or "compensate" for the loss.

When the reality is that speed is simply overperforming ... especially in Cyrodiil where it was acknowledged in the Class Rep notes that it's sometimes difficult to target enemy players.

Granted, some of those players can't do any damage by running 3 pieces of swift jewelry.

There is counterplay already available (e.g. immovable pots, specialized gear, CP). This doesn't need a nerf.

Anethum

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

There is counterplay already available (e.g. immovable pots, specialized gear, CP). This doesn't need a nerf.

Immovable pots give immunity only to hard cc (stuns, knockbacks..). So nope, it doesn't work vs roots and snares.
There are also no light and heavy sets which gives u counter to snares and roots.
And same with CP (which could touch only CP cyrodiil and duels) - any star isn't counter to snares and roots.

mojomood

100% agree that all builds need access to snare and root removal and immunity. I like this being in armor skills/passive better than class skills because some class bars are already super tight.

Honestly though, this is only part of the problem. As @NyassaV said, almost every PvP magicka build has Shacklebreaker or trifood in it because of the minimum stam requirement to break free and dodge roll. As long as movement mechanics remain at the same flat cost (which is extremely punitive to magicka builds), stam checking will be the go to strategy against magicka builds.

lucky_Sage

No not all classes need snare and root rremoval and immune it is to strong it has killed whole play styles. Roots are almost usless in PvP most Magdks stoped slotting them. Roots need own cc cd like stunned and snares just need major and minor system at 20% and 50%

kojou

I say get rid of snares altogether from all sources... I hate that mechanic.

Anethum

lucky_Sage wrote: »

No not all classes need snare and root rremoval and immune it is to strong it has killed whole play styles. Roots are almost usless in PvP most Magdks stoped slotting them. Roots need own cc cd like stunned and snares just need major and minor system at 20% and 50%

It will not kill wnything in gameplay, if every class will sacrifice something important to get it. also it can be done in a very many ways (i generated some examples in comment before).
cd is a wrong way for snares - its not stun of something like

lucky_Sage

Anethum wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

No not all classes need snare and root rremoval and immune it is to strong it has killed whole play styles. Roots are almost usless in PvP most Magdks stoped slotting them. Roots need own cc cd like stunned and snares just need major and minor system at 20% and 50%

It will not kill wnything in gameplay, if every class will sacrifice something important to get it. also it can be done in a very many ways (i generated some examples in comment before).
cd is a wrong way for snares - its not stun of something like

@anethum I'm not talking about snares I'm talking about roots with a CD like stuns are and yes roots are almost complete trash now
Sorcs have streak a mild counter to roots atleast gives some distance nightmares have cloak and the tp from shadow imimage. Dks have wings Templars have cleanse. Wardens are the only ones that doesn't have one really then all Stam builds have access to.one and some mage builds use 2h for it alot of magdblades do and 1 of the best magsorcs builds I've seen was a 2h one it's was the strongest Sorcs I've seen in a long time

Anethum

lucky_Sage wrote: »

Anethum wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

No not all classes need snare and root rremoval and immune it is to strong it has killed whole play styles. Roots are almost usless in PvP most Magdks stoped slotting them. Roots need own cc cd like stunned and snares just need major and minor system at 20% and 50%

It will not kill wnything in gameplay, if every class will sacrifice something important to get it. also it can be done in a very many ways (i generated some examples in comment before).
cd is a wrong way for snares - its not stun of something like

@anethum I'm not talking about snares I'm talking about roots with a CD like stuns are and yes roots are almost complete trash now
Sorcs have streak a mild counter to roots atleast gives some distance nightmares have cloak and the tp from shadow imimage. Dks have wings Templars have cleanse. Wardens are the only ones that doesn't have one really then all Stam builds have access to.one and some mage builds use 2h for it alot of magdblades do and 1 of the best magsorcs builds I've seen was a 2h one it's was the strongest Sorcs I've seen in a long time

ye if to say about roots I agree. pardon missed that
After dodge u're immune to them 2 seconds, but with a cost cd on dodge it is not a way when u have a deal with root spammers.
I like how was redesigned Bombard on that 2 years ago if i remember right, when started to do any root opponent while he's snared with previous Bombard. Pretty good way.
Ice aoe roots should have something like this also to prevent permanent root without any efforts from Ice aoe users.

Magblades, magsorcs and wardens all 3 forced to use forward momentum.
Any option except 2hander.
That's ugly design and it will be critically bad in next patch if not changed something - thats why i started this thread, hope Zos read this/

Irylia

Streak
Purify
Refreshing path
Warden wings
Dk wings

Snare immunity attached to them

Anethum

Irylia wrote: »

Streak
Refreshing path
Warden wings

Snare immunity attached to them

all 3 skillas are extremply bad candidates for that because will make these classes op.
sorc, nb and warden should loose something important when take morf of skill, which gives snare removal (i don't say about immunity because even removal will be enouch)

Galarthor

Daus wrote: »

Dodge rolling needs to grant snare immunity as well as root immunity.

There also needs to be a major and minor system for snares

I get we need to reduce movement speed, but snares make this game unenjoyable.

How so?

In the other thread you just claimed that players have enough kiting tools, even magicka builds. And now here you are asking for more kiting tools. And not just that. You are asking for additional kiting tools for stamina builds which are already outperforming magicka builds.

Stamina > Magicka when it comes to kiting
Magicka has sufficient kiting potential (according to you)
That should mean that stamina has more than sufficient kiting potential and as such does not need more of it!

You need to get your story straight.

ESO_Nightingale

all i want is to be able to effectively root enemies as a tank in PVE, in pvp stuns and ANY form of cc are just unfun and unfair to play against. yes. all classes should have some immunity to them! but screw npcs, they arent real.

Maryal

idk wrote: »

Medium armor has snare protection with the medium armor skill which is available to all while light armor has both the new slight reduction in snare effect and pure to work with leaving. It makes sense that heavy armor has fewer choices in this area as Zos seems to be implemented a movement speed penalty in combat to HA without slowing them down in a means that would hinder them running with a group.

2 or 3 second snare immunity is not worth the cost of Shuffle (IMO). That's why FM has been preferred. Retreating Maneuvers works much longer, but it is very expensive and it falls off once you engage in combat. They should have made major evasion give you 25% (or more) reduction of snare duration and snare strength as well as giving you a few seconds immunity to knock backs/downs.

Anethum

Maryal wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Medium armor has snare protection with the medium armor skill which is available to all while light armor has both the new slight reduction in snare effect and pure to work with leaving. It makes sense that heavy armor has fewer choices in this area as Zos seems to be implemented a movement speed penalty in combat to HA without slowing them down in a means that would hinder them running with a group.

2 or 3 second snare immunity is not worth the cost of Shuffle (IMO). That's why FM has been preferred. Retreating Maneuvers works much longer, but it is very expensive and it falls off once you engage in combat. They should have made major evasion give you 25% (or more) reduction of snare duration and snare strength as well as giving you a few seconds immunity to knock backs/downs.

what is the logic? is major evasion will do all that, it's value will be like 50% of everything u can use in general.
pasively.
Think whide, how it flue to gameplay in general. And why in such case to exist Immovable\Unstoppable at all, if some skill with major evasion will do such ***.
it's nonsence, any skill should not provide everything. Good example - old version of Rune Cage. That *** was op, becaus ehadn't counterplay. But evething should.
As for the shuffle, idk, i think it's a great skill and it shoudn't cost less. 8 sec FM overperforms it. 4 szeconds will not. Snare removing and immunity shoudn't be endless.
And I'm very glad Forward momentum will grant iimunity twice less, because it is now unbalanced thing..

But, I want every class to have it's own counterplay option against snares in medium and heavy. Alternatively to FM....
Different option, paired in efficiency to each other. LIke snare removal for nb/sorc/warden, or removal and absorb/redistribute/share with enemy. LIke a choice of some skill between this option and something important for that class.