We need Counterplay to Snares and Roots at all 5 classes.

jcm2606

Anethum wrote: »

8 sec FM overperforms it. 4 szeconds will not.

4 second Forward Momentum absolutely outperforms it, when looking at the snare immunity. 4 second Forward Momentum is actually 3.5 times cheaper than Shuffle, per second of immunity.

Anethum

jcm2606 wrote: »

Anethum wrote: »

8 sec FM overperforms it. 4 szeconds will not.

4 second Forward Momentum absolutely outperforms it, when looking at the snare immunity. 4 second Forward Momentum is actually 3.5 times cheaper than Shuffle, per second of immunity.

And u loose Rally burst healing in such case which isn't matter only for stamina warden.
It's a big sacrifice (and I like that, it's really healthy way), Shuffle doesn't force u to do the same.
Let's be honeswith 4 seconds on it it will be balanced.
But, it should not be only the way to go.
Snares and roots are overperforming af, in next patch even more and need to have counterplay on every class

Upd: And shuffle got reduced cost
" Medium Armor
Evasion: Reduced the cost of this ability and its morphs by 15%."
from https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/439794/

Anethum

Idea for nighblade - rework Maleviolent offering to provide that. LIke when u get snared - to use that skill to redistribute it to attacker or target. Ofc this shouldn't be able in sneak without broking invisibility.
Idea for sorc - to make distance of Streak depending on % of strenght of snare debuffed sorc at the moment of streak. The more powerfull snare - bigger distance. It would help a lot. Also snare removal option can be attached to Bounded Armor (in such way it can be not only passive thing at the bars).
Idea for warden - reduced snares on u when slotted alternative to Shimmering shield morf of Crystal Shield... Heroism or mobility - good dilemma...
Just samples, don't think that's best solutions - fast ideas

@ZOS_Wrobel Counters to snares on all 5 classes are highly needed

Cinbri

With permasnares and permaroots nowdays skills that not grant snare immunity are looks like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HohVORgFhWw

^^So, "OP" templar ritual don't help most of time. Even dk with its 2sec immunity from Scales far more mobile.

ak_pvp

Spamming this everywhere yeet.
Don't go through with speed nerfs. Revert grace.

Maj/min snare. 30/10%. Bam, snares are weaker vs slow boys. Make snares harder to get. Warmth 10% (~and maybe niche skills) and active ones 30%. Multiplicative so affects faster builds too. Remove immunities. Wings/FM/Shuffle removes roots and snares, and reduces snare effectivness by 33%/50% for 10s (shuffle is a bit more effective) Any method of root removal (whilst being rooted, not before) gives 4s of immunity. Wings, purge, shuffle, roll, etc.

Ta daa. Snares/roots get their fair counters. They are better vs fast builds, but they are also easier to deal with for slow ones.

Anethum

Cinbri wrote: »

With permasnares and permaroots nowdays skills that not grant snare immunity are looks like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HohVORgFhWw

^^So, "OP" templar ritual don't help most of time. Even dk with its 2sec immunity from Scales far more mobile.

I agree, same impressions, that aoe ice permanent root should be reworked on its own to prevent such efficiency.
i'm feared now of next patch partly because of this ice-aoe meta that killed enjoy from the fights already and going to be even stronger.

But in general, idk i feel nb and sorc should not get immunity with their mobility and playstyle.
Wardens hard to say, think they can but its shouldn't be same as another classes to not kill variety.

Maryal

Anethum wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Medium armor has snare protection with the medium armor skill which is available to all while light armor has both the new slight reduction in snare effect and pure to work with leaving. It makes sense that heavy armor has fewer choices in this area as Zos seems to be implemented a movement speed penalty in combat to HA without slowing them down in a means that would hinder them running with a group.

2 or 3 second snare immunity is not worth the cost of Shuffle (IMO). That's why FM has been preferred. Retreating Maneuvers works much longer, but it is very expensive and it falls off once you engage in combat. They should have made major evasion give you 25% (or more) reduction of snare duration and snare strength as well as giving you a few seconds immunity to knock backs/downs.

what is the logic? is major evasion will do all that, it's value will be like 50% of everything u can use in general.
pasively.
Think whide, how it flue to gameplay in general. And why in such case to exist Immovable\Unstoppable at all, if some skill with major evasion will do such ***.
it's nonsence, any skill should not provide everything. Good example - old version of Rune Cage. That *** was op, becaus ehadn't counterplay. But evething should.
As for the shuffle, idk, i think it's a great skill and it shoudn't cost less. 8 sec FM overperforms it. 4 szeconds will not. Snare removing and immunity shoudn't be endless.
And I'm very glad Forward momentum will grant iimunity twice less, because it is now unbalanced thing..

But, I want every class to have it's own counterplay option against snares in medium and heavy. Alternatively to FM....
Different option, paired in efficiency to each other. LIke snare removal for nb/sorc/warden, or removal and absorb/redistribute/share with enemy. LIke a choice of some skill between this option and something important for that class.

Your English / grammer in this response makes the bulk of your comment incomprehensible. I'm not saying that to be mean, I really can't understand what you are trying to say in this response.

brandonv516

Anethum wrote: »

Idea for nighblade - rework Maleviolent offering to provide that. LIke when u get snared - to use that skill to redistribute it to attacker or target. Ofc this shouldn't be able in sneak without broking invisibility.
Idea for sorc - to make distance of Streak depending on % of strenght of snare debuffed sorc at the moment of streak. The more powerfull snare - bigger distance. It would help a lot. Also snare removal option can be attached to Bounded Armor (in such way it can be not only passive thing at the bars).
Idea for warden - reduced snares on u when slotted alternative to Shimmering shield morf of Crystal Shield... Heroism or mobility - good dilemma...
Just samples, don't think that's best solutions - fast ideas

@ZOS_Wrobel Counters to snares on all 5 classes are highly needed

If anything for NB snare removal, I'd like to see it applied to the other morph of Shadow Image and the snares are transferred to your image.

Tonturri

ESO's issue with counterplay is that we tend to get 'counterplay' in the form of 'either it works or it doesn't', or 'you either have it or you don't'. An all or nothing type deal.

So, snares are either too strong or too weak, or...the way to 'counter' them provides total immunity and the player using that never has to worry about snares, ever, and it's a matter of 'do you have this one 100% full counter to this other thing or not'. Aka FW.

I'm all for @ak_pvp 's suggestion this time. We need something that lets snares be either decently strong or decently weak , and counters to be an equally decent sacrifice to acquire or not acquire. - as opposed to way too strong or just not something you bother wondering about (as in, when you're a build that can actually run FW)

Anethum

Maryal wrote: »

Your English / grammer in this response makes the bulk of your comment incomprehensible. I'm not saying that to be mean, I really can't understand what you are trying to say in this response.

Srry wasn't born and hadn't normal opportunities to live in english-speaking country, on the way to learn it better.
Short sense - own different ability to counterplay snares and roots for every class.

Anethum

brandonv516 wrote: »

If anything for NB snare removal, I'd like to see it applied to the other morph of Shadow Image and the snares are transferred to your image.

actually it can work in really interesting way, not sure if not too overpowered

olsborg

Bound Armor should give snare removal. Blur should do the same.

Ariades_swe

Galarthor wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Dodge rolling needs to grant snare immunity as well as root immunity.

There also needs to be a major and minor system for snares

I get we need to reduce movement speed, but snares make this game unenjoyable.

How so?

In the other thread you just claimed that players have enough kiting tools, even magicka builds. And now here you are asking for more kiting tools. And not just that. You are asking for additional kiting tools for stamina builds which are already outperforming magicka builds.

Stamina > Magicka when it comes to kiting
Magicka has sufficient kiting potential (according to you)
That should mean that stamina has more than sufficient kiting potential and as such does not need more of it!

You need to get your story straight.

This guy and the other tard named LeeFarmer or whatever are extremely biased towards stam in general and stamnbs in particular.
They contradict themselves whenever it suits their agenda.

Stibbons

We have magplars for that.

Feanor

Stibbons wrote: »

We have magplars for that.

WTB Crown Store pocket Templar heal and purge bot

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

idk wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

idk wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Medium armor has snare protection with the medium armor skill which is available to all while light armor has both the new slight reduction in snare effect and pure to work with leaving. It makes sense that heavy armor has fewer choices in this area as Zos seems to be implemented a movement speed penalty in combat to HA without slowing them down in a means that would hinder them running with a group.

I'm really not sure what you're talking about. What heavy armor movement speed penalty? Are you aware that heavy armor stamina specs are the most mobile in the game, due to synergizing the best with Forward Momentum?

Clearly I am speaking of armor passives and what Zos seems to be attempting. Not what is available via class skills or non class skills for movement.,

If you read the medium armor then have sprint speed boost. If you checkout LA then now have snare reduction (that OP mentions) and sprint cost reduction. That is what I was speaking about concerning the armor specific aspects OP mentioned and that is seems Zos is trying to create a separation.

The rest is simply what is available to everyone specifically related to snares.

Hope that clears it up. If more detail is needed please ask.

It seemed like you were saying that heavy armor is less mobile/speedy than the other specs. An orc in heavy armor has virtually the same sprint speed as the medium armor passive gives you, plus superior synergy with the game's best snare/root management tool. At best, that amounts in actual gameplay to a parity between the armor weights, and certainly not a slower feel to heavy armor.

Simply put, when comparing the armors and their passives the orc part is clearly irrelevant when comparing the three armors.

@idk I do believe @casparian is saying that what they are trying to do is pointless since Two handed will always work so well for a tank that not giving a speed or snare passive to heavy armor is meaningless as they don’t need it and were just going to run Forward Momentum anyways.

So ZoS is basically changing a lot of things while at the same time not changing anything in this regard.

Anethum

Stibbons wrote: »

We have magplars for that.

for what?

Feanor

Anethum wrote: »

Stibbons wrote: »

We have magplars for that.

for what?

For purging snares and roots I guess.

kypranb14_ESO

For Nightblades, I suggest removing the Major Expedition from the Double Take morph of Blur, and adding the removal of Snares with 4 seconds of immunity. It's a skill that is expensive enough to justify having an effect like that, and Nightblades have several other class-sources for Major Expedition, so they're not really losing anything.

Anethum

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

For Nightblades, I suggest removing the Major Expedition from the Double Take morph of Blur, and adding the removal of Snares with 4 seconds of immunity. It's a skill that is expensive enough to justify having an effect like that, and Nightblades have several other class-sources for Major Expedition, so they're not really losing anything.

Nope, it will make nb too overpowered. bad idea to make so strong thing at skill which provide Major evasion already.

Anethum

Feanor wrote: »

Anethum wrote: »

Stibbons wrote: »

We have magplars for that.

for what?

For purging snares and roots I guess.

in such case I don't like him:D

Stibbons wrote: »

We have magplars for that.

But seriously, each class should have uniqueness, which makes it usefull and make group play more comfortable.
Usefull, not irreplaceable, not the only 1 way to play. Maybe "not vital" right expression for that.
It shoudn't be vital. Magplar should not be "oxygen".
U should have all options to play effective at every class all 3 cases: solo, in small scale or in zerg.
(every class in different ways ofc)

Anethum

upup

Anethum

active countersnare options for every class up