And We Have NPCs Because?

bellanca6561n

I've long complained about this sort of thing....



And the reaction is typically dismissive anger because everyone knows the Justice System will never be implemented. That, and each person has some other issue they feel won't get attention if another one does.

Thing is this was along the vendor row in the heart of Windhelm. Plus the murderers were just standing there.



They refused to duel, of course, and when I called them cowardly wretched human filth they laughed and killed the woman to the left of them in that screenshot.

No guards.

So, apart from serving as some sort of fun or tiny little pieces of people, unnaturally developed, I wonder what purpose these NPCs serve? What are they adding to the game? Why are they there?

El_Borracho

Umm, to pickpocket and kill for loot?

Reistr_the_Unbroken

El_Borracho wrote: »

Umm, to pickpocket and kill for loot?

And use as cattle-

bellanca6561n

El_Borracho wrote: »

Umm, to pickpocket and kill for loot?

Yeah, that's a real multiplayer game.

That would be fine with me. Just let me kill them and loot their bodies.

Imperial_Voice

The justice system from 3 years ago isnt in yet? What?

redspecter23

I'm far more concerned about the sheer number of daedra roaming the streets daily. Clanfear, Twilights and those little impy things always following around some sorcerer. Please won't someone think of the innocents that are being subjected to this clear daedra invasion!

SpacemanSpiff1

redspecter23 wrote: »

I'm far more concerned about the sheer number of daedra roaming the streets daily. Clanfear, Twilights and those little impy things always following around some sorcerer. Please won't someone think of the innocents that are being subjected to this clear daedra invasion!

this is the real problem. they're always in the way at crafting stations.

Bouldercleave

Looks like what we need is more guards, preferably patrolling in small groups of 2-4 (think patrols).

bellanca6561n

redspecter23 wrote: »

I'm far more concerned about the sheer number of daedra roaming the streets daily. Clanfear, Twilights and those little impy things always following around some sorcerer. Please won't someone think of the innocents that are being subjected to this clear daedra invasion!

Hahahahahaha.....and all those damned Warden bears and those icky netch things attaching themselves to Wardens

Actually, now that you mention it, Red, occasional town invasions by Daedra, by angry Giants, and such would be very cool!

SakuraRush

Ironically enough Ultima Online handled this far better 20 years ago.

El_Borracho

bellanca6561n wrote: »

Yeah, that's a real multiplayer game.

That would be fine with me. Just let me kill them and loot their bodies.

They eventually respawn. I mean, there are actual quests that tell you to kill and/or pickpocket these NPCs. Are people not supposed to do these quests? NPCs are always cannon fodder for bored players in these games.

At first I thought the OP was going with some heavy tongue in cheek. But I don't know.

Bouldercleave

bellanca6561n wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

I'm far more concerned about the sheer number of daedra roaming the streets daily. Clanfear, Twilights and those little impy things always following around some sorcerer. Please won't someone think of the innocents that are being subjected to this clear daedra invasion!

Actually, now that you mention it, Red, occasional town invasions by Daedra, by angry Giants, and such would be very cool!

I would LOVE that!

VaranisArano

They carry shiny items for my Silencer to steal from their cooling corpses.



I get that it hurts your immersion. Or maybe it just bothers your Justice! roleplaying.

But this is part and parcel of the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood DLC gameplay. As long as we avoid the NPC guards and don't get spotted by the other NPCs, we're free to thieve and murder for the glory of Sithis to our heart's content. Its a feature, not a bug.

And you are right that the Bounty Hunter system wont be implemented, because ZOS couldn't figure out how to prevent players from using it to grief other players...like, I dont know...sitting in a known farming spot and setting bounties/guards on anyone murdering NPCs?


It's sort of like asking what's the point of all these bandits, wolves, and zombies running around. They're ambulatory containers for players to kill and loot. Its just that these people are "innocent" even though half the priests in Vulkhel Guard are daedric cultists, Maomer spies, and Veiled Heritance Agents. I'm doing Queen Ayrenn a favor by killing them.

Tandor

Possibly Dark Brotherhood? Otherwise standard looting/pickpocketing - have you never attempted that and killed the NPCs if they called you out? You say it was along vendor row but that the NPCs served no purpose so presumably they weren't vendors.

You should worry in those games where it's the guards that are being killed, quest NPCs that are being killed, and players going about their proper quest and other legitimate activities that are being killed by other players.

Meanwhile, if you simply seek the Justice system as originally envisaged as a means of killing PvEers then you need instead to head to Cyrodiil and face other PvPers. ZOS rightly dropped that system because they realised they couldn't prevent it being abused.

As for dueling, again there's no reason why any PvE player undertaking PvE activities in PvE zones should be expected to participate in PvP, but the abuse that you heaped on the players for declining to do so amply demonstrates why so many players decline to have anything to do with PvP. You guys are your own worst enemies when it comes to encouraging PvE players to try out PvP.

VaranisArano

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Looks like what we need is more guards, preferably patrolling in small groups of 2-4 (think patrols).

An easy way to do it would be to upgrade the base game guards to work like the guards in Hew's Bane and Gold Coast with their detection and stealth suppression circles.

Rain_Greyraven

Easy fix just make anyone that kills more than two in an hour full PVP/full loot for and hour.

Problems solved.

Reistr_the_Unbroken

Bouldercleave wrote: »

bellanca6561n wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

I'm far more concerned about the sheer number of daedra roaming the streets daily. Clanfear, Twilights and those little impy things always following around some sorcerer. Please won't someone think of the innocents that are being subjected to this clear daedra invasion!

Actually, now that you mention it, Red, occasional town invasions by Daedra, by angry Giants, and such would be very cool!

I would LOVE that!

Same! I want towns to be invaded by Daedra!

bellanca6561n

SakuraRush wrote: »

Ironically enough Ultima Online handled this far better 20 years ago.

Naturally I was thinking of that, Sakura and the first Creative Director of this game was on the original design team for that one.

That system did get a little gruesome though when they had you bringing the HEADS of players in for a bounty. Then again, some quests in ESO ask you to do the very same thing.

Heck, if they're going to rip off the idea of Dawn's Music Box - except it plays one tune rather than all sorts of music from the game from scrolls that drop in dungeons - they might as well borrow that idea too.

El_Borracho wrote: »

bellanca6561n wrote: »

Yeah, that's a real multiplayer game.

That would be fine with me. Just let me kill them and loot their bodies.

They eventually respawn. I mean, there are actual quests that tell you to kill and/or pickpocket these NPCs. Are people not supposed to do these quests? NPCs are always cannon fodder for bored players in these games.

At first I thought the OP was going with some heavy tongue in cheek. But I don't know.

Yes, as a quest for Dark Brotherhood it made sense. But please correct if I'm wrong, but wasn't the Dark Brotherhood supposed to be about taking out powerful jerks rather than some poor drunk in Windhelm?

VaranisArano

Rain_Greyraven wrote: »

Easy fix just make anyone that kills more than two in an hour full PVP/full loot for and hour.

Problems solved.

Killing Spree quests from the Dark Brotherhood DLC ask you to kill 3 people in a town.

kathandira

bellanca6561n wrote: »

I've long complained about this sort of thing....



And the reaction is typically dismissive anger because everyone knows the Justice System will never be implemented. That, and each person has some other issue they feel won't get attention if another one does.

Thing is this was along the vendor row in the heart of Windhelm. Plus the murderers were just standing there.



They refused to duel, of course, and when I called them cowardly wretched human filth they laughed and killed the woman to the left of them in that screenshot.

No guards.

So, apart from serving as some sort of fun or tiny little pieces of people, unnaturally developed, I wonder what purpose these NPCs serve? What are they adding to the game? Why are they there?

To level Legerdemain of course!

bellanca6561n

VaranisArano wrote: »

They carry shiny items for my Silencer to steal from their cooling corpses.



I get that it hurts your immersion. Or maybe it just bothers your Justice! roleplaying.

But this is part and parcel of the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood DLC gameplay. As long as we avoid the NPC guards and don't get spotted by the other NPCs, we're free to thieve and murder for the glory of Sithis to our heart's content. Its a feature, not a bug.

And you are right that the Bounty Hunter system wont be implemented, because ZOS couldn't figure out how to prevent players from using it to grief other players...like, I dont know...sitting in a known farming spot and setting bounties/guards on anyone murdering NPCs?


It's sort of like asking what's the point of all these bandits, wolves, and zombies running around. They're ambulatory containers for players to kill and loot. Its just that these people are "innocent" even though half the priests in Vulkhel Guard are daedric cultists, Maomer spies, and Veiled Heritance Agents. I'm doing Queen Ayrenn a favor by killing them.

Oh, I'd be *JUST FINE* with it if there was some risk/reward involved. But the guards in my hometown, Riften, are few and pathetic - Nords! - and this spot in Windhelm has none at all.

So, yeah, I RP the ***, throwing strings of archaic insults at them, finishing it off with a mud pie or two.

Yet sometimes....I will confess...it does more than just diminish my "immersion;" it makes me wonder why the heck I'm playing a game littered with the corpses of NPC civilians

Tandor

Rain_Greyraven wrote: »

Easy fix just make anyone that kills more than two in an hour full PVP/full loot for and hour.

Problems solved.

While having PvPers able to kill PvEers because they dared to undertake legitimate PvE activities in PvE zones, usually for quest purposes, may well enable griefers to wet themselves with excitement, I can assure you that it would not solve any problems!

Judas Helviaryn

bellanca6561n wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

They carry shiny items for my Silencer to steal from their cooling corpses.



I get that it hurts your immersion. Or maybe it just bothers your Justice! roleplaying.

But this is part and parcel of the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood DLC gameplay. As long as we avoid the NPC guards and don't get spotted by the other NPCs, we're free to thieve and murder for the glory of Sithis to our heart's content. Its a feature, not a bug.

And you are right that the Bounty Hunter system wont be implemented, because ZOS couldn't figure out how to prevent players from using it to grief other players...like, I dont know...sitting in a known farming spot and setting bounties/guards on anyone murdering NPCs?


It's sort of like asking what's the point of all these bandits, wolves, and zombies running around. They're ambulatory containers for players to kill and loot. Its just that these people are "innocent" even though half the priests in Vulkhel Guard are daedric cultists, Maomer spies, and Veiled Heritance Agents. I'm doing Queen Ayrenn a favor by killing them.

Oh, I'd be *JUST FINE* with it if there was some risk/reward involved. But the guards in my hometown, Riften, are few and pathetic - Nords! - and this spot in Windhelm has none at all.

So, yeah, I RP the ***, throwing strings of archaic insults at them, finishing it off with a mud pie or two.

Yet sometimes....I will confess...it does more than just diminish my "immersion;" it makes me wonder why the heck I'm playing a game littered with the corpses of NPC civilians

It sounds to me like you're using the IC system as an excuse to air your personal, OOC grievances at people playing the game as it was designed. If the actions of someone ingame, ICly or OOCly, affect your view of the game itself, that's not roleplay. That's just you having a problem with other people. That alone doesn't give you an excuse to be openly hostile to them.

It's an issue I often see with other roleplayers, and I am one myself. People can't distinguish between what's fake and real, and often can't tell where their roleplay personas come from.

Here's a little hint:

It's all part of you. People write what they know, they act what they know.

bellanca6561n

Tandor wrote: »

Possibly Dark Brotherhood? Otherwise standard looting/pickpocketing - have you never attempted that and killed the NPCs if they called you out? You say it was along vendor row but that the NPCs served no purpose so presumably they weren't vendors.

You should worry in those games where it's the guards that are being killed, quest NPCs that are being killed, and players going about their proper quest and other legitimate activities that are being killed by other players.

Meanwhile, if you simply seek the Justice system as originally envisaged as a means of killing PvEers then you need instead to head to Cyrodiil and face other PvPers. ZOS rightly dropped that system because they realised they couldn't prevent it being abused.

As for dueling, again there's no reason why any PvE player undertaking PvE activities in PvE zones should be expected to participate in PvP, but the abuse that you heaped on the players for declining to do so amply demonstrates why so many players decline to have anything to do with PvP. You guys are your own worst enemies when it comes to encouraging PvE players to try out PvP.

And they deserve what? My thanks? My praise? My respect for making me listen to these digital creations beg for their lives or fight for air through their own blood when they die?

What wisdom was there is turning civilian NPCs into little more than landscape harvest nodes?

SirAndy

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

The justice system from 3 years ago isnt in yet? What?

@Imperial_Voice

He/She is talking about the Player vs. Player justice system that ZOS announced 4 years ago and quickly forgot about ...

bongtokin420insd16

lol the system is in, its just a sneaky one.

VaranisArano

bellanca6561n wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

They carry shiny items for my Silencer to steal from their cooling corpses.



I get that it hurts your immersion. Or maybe it just bothers your Justice! roleplaying.

But this is part and parcel of the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood DLC gameplay. As long as we avoid the NPC guards and don't get spotted by the other NPCs, we're free to thieve and murder for the glory of Sithis to our heart's content. Its a feature, not a bug.

And you are right that the Bounty Hunter system wont be implemented, because ZOS couldn't figure out how to prevent players from using it to grief other players...like, I dont know...sitting in a known farming spot and setting bounties/guards on anyone murdering NPCs?


It's sort of like asking what's the point of all these bandits, wolves, and zombies running around. They're ambulatory containers for players to kill and loot. Its just that these people are "innocent" even though half the priests in Vulkhel Guard are daedric cultists, Maomer spies, and Veiled Heritance Agents. I'm doing Queen Ayrenn a favor by killing them.

Oh, I'd be *JUST FINE* with it if there was some risk/reward involved. But the guards in my hometown, Riften, are few and pathetic - Nords! - and this spot in Windhelm has none at all.

So, yeah, I RP the ***, throwing strings of archaic insults at them, finishing it off with a mud pie or two.

Yet sometimes....I will confess...it does more than just diminish my "immersion;" it makes me wonder why the heck I'm playing a game littered with the corpses of NPC civilians

If you are playing anywhere near my Silencer, its because:

A. She's on a mission for the Dark Brotherhood. Somebody performed the Black Sacrament and the sins of the unworthy are gonna be baptized in blood and fear.

B. Those people deserved it. Maybe it's the treasonous priests of Vulkhel Guard or the good citizens of Vivec City sneering at her for being an outlander. Or drunk Nords being too darn loud when she wants to sleep off her hangover from the "Korn-loon-licker" party thing with Rigurt the Brash.

C. Between the Three Banners War, dolmens dropping from the sky, the Worm Cult, plagues, imperial armies, werewolves, Maomer, rebellions, and everything else, what's a few extra corpses laying around?


See, I like to role play. I incorporate whats going on in the game into that role play and therefore my immersion isnt that easily broken. Personally, I find the crazy mounts and weird player names much more distracting, but that's just par for the course in an MMO.

SakuraRush

Once again UO had full PVP everywhere 20 years ago and it worked.

VaranisArano

bellanca6561n wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Possibly Dark Brotherhood? Otherwise standard looting/pickpocketing - have you never attempted that and killed the NPCs if they called you out? You say it was along vendor row but that the NPCs served no purpose so presumably they weren't vendors.

You should worry in those games where it's the guards that are being killed, quest NPCs that are being killed, and players going about their proper quest and other legitimate activities that are being killed by other players.

Meanwhile, if you simply seek the Justice system as originally envisaged as a means of killing PvEers then you need instead to head to Cyrodiil and face other PvPers. ZOS rightly dropped that system because they realised they couldn't prevent it being abused.

As for dueling, again there's no reason why any PvE player undertaking PvE activities in PvE zones should be expected to participate in PvP, but the abuse that you heaped on the players for declining to do so amply demonstrates why so many players decline to have anything to do with PvP. You guys are your own worst enemies when it comes to encouraging PvE players to try out PvP.

And they deserve what? My thanks? My praise? My respect for making me listen to these digital creations beg for their lives or fight for air through their own blood when they die?

What wisdom was there is turning civilian NPCs into little more than landscape harvest nodes?

Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim...all had NPCs that could be robbed and murdered.

Danksta

That poor woman to the left, her blood is on your hands OP! Did you really need to provoke these savage murderers???


She had her whole life ahead of her! WHYYYYYYYY!!!!?????!!!????

Samadhi

bellanca6561n wrote: »

I've long complained about this sort of thing....



And the reaction is typically dismissive anger because everyone knows the Justice System will never be implemented. That, and each person has some other issue they feel won't get attention if another one does.

Thing is this was along the vendor row in the heart of Windhelm. Plus the murderers were just standing there.



They refused to duel, of course, and when I called them cowardly wretched human filth they laughed and killed the woman to the left of them in that screenshot.

No guards.

So, apart from serving as some sort of fun or tiny little pieces of people, unnaturally developed, I wonder what purpose these NPCs serve? What are they adding to the game? Why are they there?

Oh hey, this is Eastmarch right by the Wayshrine right?
It is my presumption that there are no guards there as you say because they would potentially kill people with bounties during load screens teleporting to the wayshrine

With that said, have question for you
personally triple pickpocket npcs then kill them afterward so they respawn with new loots for the next thief, as it seems to be a faster respawn timer than refilling the pockets of a living npc
would it be more polite on the whole for me to continue killing them to help other thiefs, or to leave them alive unless they start a fight for people fixin' on immerzhjunz