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Elder Slow Online
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To be fair I was playing on my stamblade last night and was outrun by a magsorc even with my hasty retreat. Couldn't touch him with my skills. Was frustrating to say the least. I think a movement speed nerf is good. It's not fun when someone with max movement speed hugs a tree and calls you trash for using cloakEdited by Dark_in_a_box on October 2, 2018 10:36AM3 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DarkRealityzz wrote: »To be fair I was playing on my stamblade last night and was outrun by a magsorc even with my hasty retreat. Couldn't touch him with my skills. Was frustrating to say the least. I think a movement speed nerf is good. It's not fun when someone with max movement speed hugs a tree and calls you trash for using cloak
All you had to do vs a mag sorc is snare them...
Also if you are using bow i assume you are using medium so even without swift you should of been close to the max speed.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...1 -
swirve✭✭✭✭ResTandRespeC wrote: »We need new class reps and how do you become a class rep?
Get recognized for spending the vast majority of your time both helping the community and learning about the game. The players who are class reps have spent 1000's of hours learning and teaching the game and in most cases with proof in the form of youtube videos and forum posts.
Not all... and some represent themselves and not the other players.1 -
Raammzzaa✭✭✭✭✭Caligamy_ESO wrote: »Who asked for this?]
Zergs? It looks like a major nerf to small-scale and solo play PvP to me.
3 -
Kel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Speed nerf was honestly the silliest thing ever, no more 1vX’ing fellas. I guess we’ll just have to deal with zergs always chasing us with cc/root spam sadly. Elder Zergs Online
Naw..you could x before swift was a thing, and you can x after the nerf.
Swift still exsists, it's just not as swift. The CC has always been there. Zergs always chased with CC/root spam.
That said, this is just a baffling change. I play stam sorc in PvP mostly. They changed dark deal...they took away the overload bar. We had speed. Now they are reigning that in.
How much more can they take from stam sorc?0 -
RD065✭✭✭✭ResTandRespeC wrote: »We need new class reps and how do you become a class rep?
Get recognized for spending the vast majority of your time both helping the community and learning about the game. The players who are class reps have spent 1000's of hours learning and teaching the game and in most cases with proof in the form of youtube videos and forum posts.
I guess I'm out
Thanks. 1 -
Jameliel✭✭✭✭✭
✭The decision makers are as dense as bricks. More time is spent "buffing" than fighting. Now we have to hit buttons twice as often. It's not like the lag and general unresponsive nature of skills isnt already enough. I hope another game comes out soon. ESO is a huge pile of wasted potential due to the disgusting pattern of decisions made by whoever is in charge.6 -
Uviryth✭✭✭✭✭Seriously, SHORTER Buffs?
ESO is already a running gag with its 3-10 second buff-thingies.
Did anyone asked for that?10 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Speed nerf was honestly the silliest thing ever, no more 1vX’ing fellas. I guess we’ll just have to deal with zergs always chasing us with cc/root spam sadly. Elder Zergs Online
Because if there's one thing in PVP that ZOS has been trying to nerf into Oblivion since at least Morrowind, it's 1vXing.
They really, really don't like it for some odd reason.2 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
You can blame the class reps for not knowing that asking ZoS for nerfs is as dangerous as asking for close air support from the death star.Guys swift was over performing. The reps called it right.
Over reaction by ZOS? Yes.
Blaming the reps for that? NO. These are volenteers committed to helping us don't blame ZOS interpretation on them.
It has been pretty standard practice for years to overdo nerfs.Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.4 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭weedgenius wrote: »GlorphNoldorin wrote: »I am paraphrasing, but in essence, our class reps 'represented to the devs' that the 'majority' of us wanted a nerf to speed because enemy players were to mobile for their ... errr... 'our' melee attacks to connect.
So now the whole game has a speed nerf. Cant fault the class reps....but the devs however. Speed in pvp............. that's the point but what is the cause and what is a solution?
Devs
Is it swift jewelry?
Is it forward momentum?
Is it major expedition?
Devs
We dont know so we will put everything to the hammer.
Why not just make a movement speed cap in cyrodil....case closed.
Yes I can fault the class reps ... (partially) they were the ones that told the devs speed buffs were a community pain point ... they are the ones who pointed the finger saying because of speed buffs the community is suffering (in essence). Was there any counter community viewpoint presented in the class rep notes? I sure didn't see any - no dialog as to any other reason for 'the problem' (and there are many), no dialog pointing out the benefits of speed buffs, no dialog pointing out how speed buffs help alleviate numerous pain points that otherwise exist in the game. While not entirely their fault, they still bear some responsibility for this round of over-nerfs.
Class reps literally told ZOS swift + forward is the problem and major expedition was not an issue. If you read the class rep notes you will see that ZOS came in saying they thought major expedition skills needed to be fixed, class reps told them but actually no they don’t, and yet here we are. Pretty crummy to blame class reps IMO.
This is what I don't get. Nobody was complaining about speed before Swift was introduced. But now that players are actually using Swift (giving up potential damage/buff traits in the process), coupled with the ever increasing lag exacerbating targeting issues.... Major Expedition is a problem? It sounds like they are purposely trying a blanket player slow down to offset poor server performance in Cyrodiil.
Why not just leave non-combat speed alone, so people can get around when travelling and questing, and add a slight speed reduction when engaged in battle?4 -
weedgenius✭✭✭✭✭
✭Notes from class reps:ZOS told us they are aware players are moving too fast and are too difficult to target with melee and short ranged abilities. They want to slow us down. Swift Jewelry was something that was specifically mentioned. The Major Expedition buff being too strong was hinted at. The reps agreed that players are too fast and that Swift Jewelry is a primary offender, especially when it was additive to other speed boosts and Forward Momentum. The reps did not agree that the Major Expedition was too strong. It was mentioned that diminishing returns may be a better way to address the issue than flat out nerfs as it is the stacking of speed that is the primary issue.
Bolded for emphasis...
Again, reps agreed with many vocal people on this forum that Swift jewelry (especially with FM and stacked with other speed buffs) was the big issue. Reps suggested finding an alternative method to address this besides a "flat out nerf." Reps told ZOS that they did not agree with their idea that Major Expedition was a problem. Stop blaming class reps!!PS4 NA
Better Homes & Gardens5 -
killahsin✭✭✭I am paraphrasing, but in essence, our class reps 'represented to the devs' that the community wanted a nerf to speed because in pvp enemy players were to mobile for their ... errr... 'our' melee attacks to connect.
Unfortunately, the views of that part of the community not in agreement with their viewpoint didn't appear to be addressed.
this is pretty much accurate. From what I see reps whined that they werent being listened to so hard the pain train followed them and when ZoS said hey were listening, the speed stuff was brought up as a major point of complaint and presto speed nerf. Cause you know ZoS nerfs fun one patch at a time. I'm starting to wonder why I came back to this game. It's justa housing simulator at this point.4 -
weedgenius✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am paraphrasing, but in essence, our class reps 'represented to the devs' that the community wanted a nerf to speed because in pvp enemy players were to mobile for their ... errr... 'our' melee attacks to connect.
Unfortunately, the views of that part of the community not in agreement with their viewpoint didn't appear to be addressed.
this is pretty much accurate. From what I see reps whined that they werent being listened to so hard the pain train followed them and when ZoS said hey were listening, the speed stuff was brought up as a major point of complaint and presto speed nerf. Cause you know ZoS nerfs fun one patch at a time. I'm starting to wonder why I came back to this game. It's justa housing simulator at this point.
Are you kidding me? Can you read? You can "see" for yourself one post above you the exact language used. It was not the situation you described.PS4 NA
Better Homes & Gardens2 -
Raammzzaa✭✭✭✭✭weedgenius wrote: »I am paraphrasing, but in essence, our class reps 'represented to the devs' that the community wanted a nerf to speed because in pvp enemy players were to mobile for their ... errr... 'our' melee attacks to connect.
Unfortunately, the views of that part of the community not in agreement with their viewpoint didn't appear to be addressed.
this is pretty much accurate. From what I see reps whined that they werent being listened to so hard the pain train followed them and when ZoS said hey were listening, the speed stuff was brought up as a major point of complaint and presto speed nerf. Cause you know ZoS nerfs fun one patch at a time. I'm starting to wonder why I came back to this game. It's justa housing simulator at this point.
Are you kidding me? Can you read? You can "see" for yourself one post above you the exact language used. It was not the situation you described.
So basically the class reps tried to get the view of the players across to the devs, but at the end of the day the devs chose not to listen to them? What use are the class reps then?
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killahsin✭✭✭weedgenius wrote: »I am paraphrasing, but in essence, our class reps 'represented to the devs' that the community wanted a nerf to speed because in pvp enemy players were to mobile for their ... errr... 'our' melee attacks to connect.
Unfortunately, the views of that part of the community not in agreement with their viewpoint didn't appear to be addressed.
this is pretty much accurate. From what I see reps whined that they werent being listened to so hard the pain train followed them and when ZoS said hey were listening, the speed stuff was brought up as a major point of complaint and presto speed nerf. Cause you know ZoS nerfs fun one patch at a time. I'm starting to wonder why I came back to this game. It's justa housing simulator at this point.
Are you kidding me? Can you read? You can "see" for yourself one post above you the exact language used. It was not the situation you described.
I can read just fine and you would have a point if we were not talking about ZoS here, and the class reps 100% know how ZoS 'balances'. Save your antics for someone that cares. It is 100% the situation I described.0 -
Cage_Lizardman✭✭✭✭✭I'm fine with them nerfing swift and speed in pvp, but why did they have to nerf every single major expedition ability? Those abilities are hardly a problem on their own. It will just make the game more tedious when you need to get somewhere far away and can't mount, which is really not needed.5 -
killahsin✭✭✭because Cage everything has to be 'balanced' Swift was put in for a reason. The players didnt like it so the balance has to be maintained. Thats essentially what people fail to realize.0
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭weedgenius wrote: »I am paraphrasing, but in essence, our class reps 'represented to the devs' that the community wanted a nerf to speed because in pvp enemy players were to mobile for their ... errr... 'our' melee attacks to connect.
Unfortunately, the views of that part of the community not in agreement with their viewpoint didn't appear to be addressed.
this is pretty much accurate. From what I see reps whined that they werent being listened to so hard the pain train followed them and when ZoS said hey were listening, the speed stuff was brought up as a major point of complaint and presto speed nerf. Cause you know ZoS nerfs fun one patch at a time. I'm starting to wonder why I came back to this game. It's justa housing simulator at this point.
Are you kidding me? Can you read? You can "see" for yourself one post above you the exact language used. It was not the situation you described.
So basically the class reps tried to get the view of the players across to the devs, but at the end of the day the devs chose not to listen to them? What use are the class reps then?
There's a lot of very snarky answers to that question.
But the more serious one is that the class reps are there to help collate and explain class concerns for the devs, basically volunteer go-between for the devs and the community, because heaven knows it would be a disaster if the devs tried to do this with the whole community. Ultimately, the devs make all the decisions, and the class reps are only one factor among many that they take into account.2 -
_Ahala_✭✭✭✭✭
✭For Magden specifically they said they wanted to make the class feel less buff spammy... and then they reduced the uptime of our most vital buff to 4s... they flat out lied to us6 -
ruikkarikun✭✭✭✭✭What's wrong buddy?
They nerfed not just sorcerer yes?
Congratulations to your and other nightblades whine and those who don't care. Prepare for more nerfs.0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GlorphNoldorin wrote: »I am paraphrasing, but in essence, our class reps 'represented to the devs' that the 'majority' of us wanted a nerf to speed because enemy players were to mobile for their ... errr... 'our' melee attacks to connect.
So now the whole game has a speed nerf. Cant fault the class reps....but the devs however. Speed in pvp............. that's the point but what is the cause and what is a solution?
Devs
Is it swift jewelry?
Is it forward momentum?
Is it major expedition?
Devs
We dont know so we will put everything to the hammer.
Why not just make a movement speed cap in cyrodil....case closed.
Yes I can fault the class reps ... (partially) they were the ones that told the devs speed buffs were a community pain point ... they are the ones who pointed the finger saying because of speed buffs the community is suffering (in essence). Was there any counter community viewpoint presented in the class rep notes? I sure didn't see any - no dialog as to any other reason for 'the problem' (and there are many), no dialog pointing out the benefits of speed buffs, no dialog pointing out how speed buffs help alleviate numerous pain points that otherwise exist in the game. While not entirely their fault, they still bear some responsibility for this round of over-nerfs.
Yes because it's so much easier to criticize than be correct.
We did *not* point the finger at the proliferation and stacking of speed buffs. The numerous threads about the Swift trait, speed potions, and complaints about not being able to melee target players after Summerset did. Those thread have been out there for months, I know because I voted in some of them saying Swift did *NOT* need a nerf (but please feel free to lay responsibility upon me and that somehow I did not represent a counter community viewpoint). People like to make snide remarks that ZOS does not play the game, but that is absolutely not true: Rich Lambert plays BGs all the time. It was because the notion that speed stacking was too strong was already been out there and it plainly apparent to anyone on a PvP melee build trying to fight a stamina sorcerer, that ZOS came to us and said they wanted to slow players down.
Because the complaint out there that speed stacking builds are too difficult to target has validity and because that complaint has been echoed numerous times on these forums and in the discords, we did not disagree with that premise. We did caution ZOS not to go overboard and nerf everything, as other posters have pointed out, and we did communicate to ZOS that speed buffs were still necessary and needed. We told them that the Major Expedition buff was not a problem (and neither were the skills that granted it) and disagreed with their premise that it needed a nerf. We told them player speed was not an issue before the introduction of Swift Jewelry and the ease of stacking buffs that were not subject to diminishing returns, and as such that was where they should look to making adjustments rather than broadly and indiscriminately nerf sources of speed.
The patch notes haven't even been out for 24 hours, and the Class rep discord has numerous posts by us stating the speed nerfs were too much and too broadly implemented.
Edited by Joy_Division on October 2, 2018 3:36PM13 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭GlorphNoldorin wrote: »I am paraphrasing, but in essence, our class reps 'represented to the devs' that the 'majority' of us wanted a nerf to speed because enemy players were to mobile for their ... errr... 'our' melee attacks to connect.
So now the whole game has a speed nerf. Cant fault the class reps....but the devs however. Speed in pvp............. that's the point but what is the cause and what is a solution?
Devs
Is it swift jewelry?
Is it forward momentum?
Is it major expedition?
Devs
We dont know so we will put everything to the hammer.
Why not just make a movement speed cap in cyrodil....case closed.
Yeah the throwing of speed nerfs does little but limit builds, as strong as swift was.
To balance it they should have changed how snares and immunity interact to lessen the hit on builds without immunity and with low speed, then make it stronger (as opposed to the current "not at all') against the speed builds.
The fix for it was staring them in the face.
MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.0 -
killahsin✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »GlorphNoldorin wrote: »I am paraphrasing, but in essence, our class reps 'represented to the devs' that the 'majority' of us wanted a nerf to speed because enemy players were to mobile for their ... errr... 'our' melee attacks to connect.
So now the whole game has a speed nerf. Cant fault the class reps....but the devs however. Speed in pvp............. that's the point but what is the cause and what is a solution?
Devs
Is it swift jewelry?
Is it forward momentum?
Is it major expedition?
Devs
We dont know so we will put everything to the hammer.
Why not just make a movement speed cap in cyrodil....case closed.
Yes I can fault the class reps ... (partially) they were the ones that told the devs speed buffs were a community pain point ... they are the ones who pointed the finger saying because of speed buffs the community is suffering (in essence). Was there any counter community viewpoint presented in the class rep notes? I sure didn't see any - no dialog as to any other reason for 'the problem' (and there are many), no dialog pointing out the benefits of speed buffs, no dialog pointing out how speed buffs help alleviate numerous pain points that otherwise exist in the game. While not entirely their fault, they still bear some responsibility for this round of over-nerfs.
Yes because it's so much easier to criticize than be correct.
We did *not* point the finger at the proliferation and stacking of speed buffs. The numerous threads about the Swift trait, speed potions, and complaints about not being able to melee target players after Summerset did. Those thread have been out there for months, I know because I voted in some of them saying Swift did *NOT* need a nerf (but please feel free to lay responsibility upon me and that somehow I did not represent a counter community viewpoint). People like to make snide remarks that ZOS does not play the game, but that is absolutely not true: Rich Lambert plays BGs all the time. It was because the notion that speed stacking was too strong was already been out there and it plainly apparent to anyone on a PvP melee build trying to fight a stamina sorcerer, that ZOS came to us and said they wanted to slow players down.
Because the complaint out there that speed stacking builds are too difficult to target has validity and because that complaint has been echoed numerous times on these forums and in the discords, we did not disagree with that premise. We did caution ZOS not to go overboard and nerf everything, as other posters have pointed out, and we did communicate to ZOS that speed buffs were still necessary and needed. We told them that the Major Expedition buff was not a problem (and neither were the skills that granted it) and disagreed with their premise that it needed a nerf. We told them player speed was not an issue before the introduction of Swift Jewelry and the ease of stacking buffs that were not subject to diminishing returns, and as such that was where they should look to making adjustments rather than broadly and indiscriminately nerf sources of speed.
The patch notes haven't even been out for 24 hours, and the Class rep discord has numerous posts by us stating the speed nerfs were too much and too broadly implemented.
Joy let me re-iterate; I am absolutely not blaming any class rep.You are right, Class reps merely do what they are supposed to be doing. And you are absolutely right ZoS plays the game, and some of them are really damn good at it. Even if class reps didnt exist these nerfs would have taken place. That is a fact. And I apologize in advance if i came off as a **** with how i worded my post.
I think my personal frustration is because this type of 're-balance' was why a ton of us perma-cyrodil people quit 2 years ago. And seeing the state the rest of the game is in is inspiring but then seeing how pvp balancing is STILL being handled is so depressing. Such an amazing game outside of pvp and then you go inside large scale pvp and you still have server perf issues and you still have a constant forced constraint of systems squeezing all uniqueness out of the game and any build diversity has to be so marginal that it all seems homogeneous. And all of it is because of crying on the forums and no, not because of Class Reps. ZoS is entirely to blame for this, not the reps. So while some of the best changes to the game have been because of User request, some of the worst have been as well.
ZoS absolutely needs to learn to create better solutions(not nerfs) to skill based problems and metas.Edited by killahsin on October 2, 2018 3:57PM2 -
Haashhtaag✭✭✭✭✭
✭VaranisArano wrote: »weedgenius wrote: »I am paraphrasing, but in essence, our class reps 'represented to the devs' that the community wanted a nerf to speed because in pvp enemy players were to mobile for their ... errr... 'our' melee attacks to connect.
Unfortunately, the views of that part of the community not in agreement with their viewpoint didn't appear to be addressed.
this is pretty much accurate. From what I see reps whined that they werent being listened to so hard the pain train followed them and when ZoS said hey were listening, the speed stuff was brought up as a major point of complaint and presto speed nerf. Cause you know ZoS nerfs fun one patch at a time. I'm starting to wonder why I came back to this game. It's justa housing simulator at this point.
Are you kidding me? Can you read? You can "see" for yourself one post above you the exact language used. It was not the situation you described.
So basically the class reps tried to get the view of the players across to the devs, but at the end of the day the devs chose not to listen to them? What use are the class reps then?
There's a lot of very snarky answers to that question.
But the more serious one is that the class reps are there to help collate and explain class concerns for the devs, basically volunteer go-between for the devs and the community, because heaven knows it would be a disaster if the devs tried to do this with the whole community. Ultimately, the devs make all the decisions, and the class reps are only one factor among many that they take into account.
They’re a glorified meat shield between player base and devs. That’s it.1 -
KingMagaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS are actively slowly down combat and taking away factors/skills used in dynamic calculations (Like Evasion) in a desperate clutch in the hopes for increased performance.
The direction ESO is taking now is nose diving.5 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭the speed changes are completely and totaly unnecessary,
allready feels like we crawl in mud, especially when sneaking. please do not nerf speed.4
