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Increase the range of Uppercut to 40 meters.
-
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »This thread is ridiculous...
Obviously what they should do is reduce to range of Snipe to 7 meters, to match Uppercut. You have it totally backwards!
I see people already do those melee snipes when ganking with Incaps & whatnot.
Shame they haven't realized yet they could use Uppercut for much more damage (yes, it deals more damage) since they're in melee range anyway.
Uppercut will only deal more damage in the event you aren't getting anything significant out of longshots.
Yeah... no.
This is Dizzying Swing in a min-max'd Onslaught build in noCP. Note that I'd get even more tooltip damage with something other than Balorgh (and I haven't transmuted the jewelry to Infused yet on that build to add another 500'ish to tooltip).
...and here's a min-max'd bow build (again in noCP):
Same buffs etc, you can see that even with Long Shots you won't be dealing more damage with Lethal Arrow (except with Asylum Bow).
If I were to nitpick I'd point out that Dizzying Swing also benefits from the bosmer/khajiit stealth damage & NB +10% weapon dmg passives as unlike with bow you actually land the hardest hitting ability first (where as bow typically lands the light attack before Lethal Arrow).
Builds aren't even remotely the same.
In addition to not adding the multiplicative longshots passive.
Obviously.
There's different things you slot to min-max bow & different things you slot to min-max 2H melee dmg.usmcjdking wrote: »In addition to not adding the multiplicative longshots passive.
If you bothered to read:DDuke wrote:Same buffs etc, you can see that even with Long Shots you won't be dealing more damage with Lethal Arrow (except with Asylum Bow).
You could add a flat +12% (which Long Shots isn't - it's bundled up with every other % modifier) to that Lethal Arrow tooltip & it wouldn't surpass the Dizzying Swing one.
I didn't say they would deal the same damage, but that puts it at ~ 92% of the damage of a melee, 1 second channel that is significantly less forgiving in executing and far more dangerous to execute as it puts you in range of melee & ranged attacks.
So what entirely is your point?
Point is thatusmcjdking wrote:Uppercut will only deal more damage in the event you aren't getting anything significant out of longshots.
...is fake news and only serves to cause more people to QQ about the damage of snipe (which isn't the issue - bugs/exploits are).
Same build or don't bother responding.
Ok, with 5 Spriggan 5 Automaton 1 Kra'gh 1 Kena on both:
Lethal Arrow
12 472+(12%[Long Shots]+8%[Minor Berserk]+5%[Hawk's Eye])=15 590
Dizzying Swing
13 261+(5%[Heavy Weapons]+8%[Minor Berserk]+10%[Stealthy])=16 311
Also worth noting that a maximum range Lethal Arrow means you won't have any follow up burst, where as someone in melee range can easily follow up with anything from Incap to Onslaught.
What next, should I educate you about the maximum burst of a max range snipe spammer & compare it to a 2H Dizzying Swing/Wrecking Blow gank build?
I get that people want to hate on bow and snipers, but I'm sure that can be done without making up stuff and by focusing on the actual issues with it.1 -
GreenHere✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This thread makes me giggle but one thing is for sure, the day is coming where different skills will no longer be different skills.
If you think about it @Solariken , it's really unfair that different skills have different ranges, costs, damage, and effects. What ZOS should do is make all skills do the same thing for all classes and all specs. Then everything would be balanced for sure!1 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »This thread is ridiculous...
Obviously what they should do is reduce to range of Snipe to 7 meters, to match Uppercut. You have it totally backwards!
I see people already do those melee snipes when ganking with Incaps & whatnot.
Shame they haven't realized yet they could use Uppercut for much more damage (yes, it deals more damage) since they're in melee range anyway.
Uppercut will only deal more damage in the event you aren't getting anything significant out of longshots.
Yeah... no.
This is Dizzying Swing in a min-max'd Onslaught build in noCP. Note that I'd get even more tooltip damage with something other than Balorgh (and I haven't transmuted the jewelry to Infused yet on that build to add another 500'ish to tooltip).
...and here's a min-max'd bow build (again in noCP):
Same buffs etc, you can see that even with Long Shots you won't be dealing more damage with Lethal Arrow (except with Asylum Bow).
If I were to nitpick I'd point out that Dizzying Swing also benefits from the bosmer/khajiit stealth damage & NB +10% weapon dmg passives as unlike with bow you actually land the hardest hitting ability first (where as bow typically lands the light attack before Lethal Arrow).
Builds aren't even remotely the same.
In addition to not adding the multiplicative longshots passive.
Obviously.
There's different things you slot to min-max bow & different things you slot to min-max 2H melee dmg.usmcjdking wrote: »In addition to not adding the multiplicative longshots passive.
If you bothered to read:DDuke wrote:Same buffs etc, you can see that even with Long Shots you won't be dealing more damage with Lethal Arrow (except with Asylum Bow).
You could add a flat +12% (which Long Shots isn't - it's bundled up with every other % modifier) to that Lethal Arrow tooltip & it wouldn't surpass the Dizzying Swing one.
I didn't say they would deal the same damage, but that puts it at ~ 92% of the damage of a melee, 1 second channel that is significantly less forgiving in executing and far more dangerous to execute as it puts you in range of melee & ranged attacks.
So what entirely is your point?
Point is thatusmcjdking wrote:Uppercut will only deal more damage in the event you aren't getting anything significant out of longshots.
...is fake news and only serves to cause more people to QQ about the damage of snipe (which isn't the issue - bugs/exploits are).
Same build or don't bother responding.
Ok, with 5 Spriggan 5 Automaton 1 Kra'gh 1 Kena on both:
Lethal Arrow
12 472+(12%[Long Shots]+8%[Minor Berserk]+5%[Hawk's Eye])=15 590
Dizzying Swing
13 261+(5%[Heavy Weapons]+8%[Minor Berserk]+10%[Stealthy])=16 311
Also worth noting that a maximum range Lethal Arrow means you won't have any follow up burst, where as someone in melee range can easily follow up with anything from Incap to Onslaught.
What next, should I educate you about the maximum burst of a max range snipe spammer & compare it to a 2H Dizzying Swing/Wrecking Blow gank build?
I get that people want to hate on bow and snipers, but I'm sure that can be done without making up stuff and by focusing on the actual issues with it.
Okay, I'm actually done with you and your inability to give me anything remotely concrete.
I'm going to post a UESP build. Buffs are the same on both bars, gear is the same on both bars, traits on the weapons are the same. My bow bar Lethal Arrow tooltip is higher than my WB tooltip after a simple 6% bonus from Longshots.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=28282
This is with the benefit of 2H sword. Remove the sword and it's not even close. Add in the poison DOT and Lethal Arrow will surpass Uppercut as is. Add in the utility of defile and uppercut is way far behind bow.
Also, auto + lethal arrow? Are you serious. LMAO. Get out of my thread.Edited by usmcjdking on October 2, 2018 1:54AM0331
06024 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Best suggestion Ive seen on the forums in a long time, and an entirely legitimate request in the context of the ridiculous "balance" that exists in this game.Edited by Vapirko on October 2, 2018 1:43AM0 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This thread is ridiculous...
Obviously what they should do is reduce to range of Snipe to 7 meters, to match Uppercut. You have it totally backwards!
I see people already do those melee snipes when ganking with Incaps & whatnot.
Shame they haven't realized yet they could use Uppercut for much more damage (yes, it deals more damage) since they're in melee range anyway.
But uppercut doesn't provide either fracture or major defile. Snipe is much stronger in many ways than uppercut. The CC from a poison attached to Snipe can be a lot more effective and game breaking than the CC from dizzy swing.Edited by Vapirko on October 2, 2018 1:46AM0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »This thread is ridiculous...
Obviously what they should do is reduce to range of Snipe to 7 meters, to match Uppercut. You have it totally backwards!
I see people already do those melee snipes when ganking with Incaps & whatnot.
Shame they haven't realized yet they could use Uppercut for much more damage (yes, it deals more damage) since they're in melee range anyway.
Uppercut will only deal more damage in the event you aren't getting anything significant out of longshots.
Yeah... no.
This is Dizzying Swing in a min-max'd Onslaught build in noCP. Note that I'd get even more tooltip damage with something other than Balorgh (and I haven't transmuted the jewelry to Infused yet on that build to add another 500'ish to tooltip).
...and here's a min-max'd bow build (again in noCP):
Same buffs etc, you can see that even with Long Shots you won't be dealing more damage with Lethal Arrow (except with Asylum Bow).
If I were to nitpick I'd point out that Dizzying Swing also benefits from the bosmer/khajiit stealth damage & NB +10% weapon dmg passives as unlike with bow you actually land the hardest hitting ability first (where as bow typically lands the light attack before Lethal Arrow).
Builds aren't even remotely the same.
In addition to not adding the multiplicative longshots passive.
Obviously.
There's different things you slot to min-max bow & different things you slot to min-max 2H melee dmg.usmcjdking wrote: »In addition to not adding the multiplicative longshots passive.
If you bothered to read:DDuke wrote:Same buffs etc, you can see that even with Long Shots you won't be dealing more damage with Lethal Arrow (except with Asylum Bow).
You could add a flat +12% (which Long Shots isn't - it's bundled up with every other % modifier) to that Lethal Arrow tooltip & it wouldn't surpass the Dizzying Swing one.
I didn't say they would deal the same damage, but that puts it at ~ 92% of the damage of a melee, 1 second channel that is significantly less forgiving in executing and far more dangerous to execute as it puts you in range of melee & ranged attacks.
So what entirely is your point?
Point is thatusmcjdking wrote:Uppercut will only deal more damage in the event you aren't getting anything significant out of longshots.
...is fake news and only serves to cause more people to QQ about the damage of snipe (which isn't the issue - bugs/exploits are).
Same build or don't bother responding.
Ok, with 5 Spriggan 5 Automaton 1 Kra'gh 1 Kena on both:
Lethal Arrow
12 472+(12%[Long Shots]+8%[Minor Berserk]+5%[Hawk's Eye])=15 590
Dizzying Swing
13 261+(5%[Heavy Weapons]+8%[Minor Berserk]+10%[Stealthy])=16 311
Also worth noting that a maximum range Lethal Arrow means you won't have any follow up burst, where as someone in melee range can easily follow up with anything from Incap to Onslaught.
What next, should I educate you about the maximum burst of a max range snipe spammer & compare it to a 2H Dizzying Swing/Wrecking Blow gank build?
I get that people want to hate on bow and snipers, but I'm sure that can be done without making up stuff and by focusing on the actual issues with it.
Okay, I'm actually done with you and your inability to give me anything remotely concrete.
I'm going to post a UESP build. Buffs are the same on both bars, gear is the same on both bars, traits on the weapons are the same. My bow bar Lethal Arrow tooltip is higher than my WB tooltip after a simple 6% bonus from Longshots.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=28282
This is with the benefit of 2H sword. Remove the sword and it's not even close.
First mistake: you're not calculating buffs manually. On UESP they are not bundled up as they should be. Orc melee passive for instance isn't registered at all on that site.
Lethal Arrow
13 578+(12%[Long Shots]+5%[Hawk's Eye]+15%[Master-at-Arms]+11%[Mighty])=19 416
Wrecking Blow
14 420+(5%[Heavy Weapons]+4%[Swift Warrior]+15%[Master-at-Arms]+11%[Mighty])=19 467
These would be the "real" numbers for your setup (and I do hope you do not use that for ganking...) & I'd read up on "jump points" for better CP allocation.usmcjdking wrote: »Also, auto + lethal arrow? Are you serious. LMAO. Get out of my thread.
Typo.
Rest assured I had Focused Aim morph on the bar.
If you think Snipe is so powerful, why don't you fight me on PTS? I'll slot Dizzying Swing and you'll slot Snipe, we'll see how that goes
Though to be fair fighting someone who can't even allocate CPs properly or calculate tooltips wouldn't really be indicative of anything.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭This thread is ridiculous...
Obviously what they should do is reduce to range of Snipe to 7 meters, to match Uppercut. You have it totally backwards!
I see people already do those melee snipes when ganking with Incaps & whatnot.
Shame they haven't realized yet they could use Uppercut for much more damage (yes, it deals more damage) since they're in melee range anyway.
But uppercut doesn't provide either fracture or major defile. Snipe is much stronger in many ways than uppercut. The CC from a poison attached to Snipe can be a lot more effective and game breaking than the CC from dizzy swing.
No, it provides a CC with Dizzying Swing or Major Empower (2k'ish additional burst) with Wrecking Blow, both of which are powerful in a different way.
The only real benefit (which tbh I've sorely missed the last few days that I've played my Dizzying Swing->LA+Onslaught build) is the range - with Wrecking Blow/Dizzying Swing you often just can't land those hits because Cyrodiil is full of Barry Allens currently. That should be more manageable next patch after mobility nerfs.
I'd gladly trade Major Defile or Minor Fracture for Major Empower though on my bow build.Edited by DDuke on October 2, 2018 2:13AM0 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »This thread is ridiculous...
Obviously what they should do is reduce to range of Snipe to 7 meters, to match Uppercut. You have it totally backwards!
I see people already do those melee snipes when ganking with Incaps & whatnot.
Shame they haven't realized yet they could use Uppercut for much more damage (yes, it deals more damage) since they're in melee range anyway.
Uppercut will only deal more damage in the event you aren't getting anything significant out of longshots.
Yeah... no.
This is Dizzying Swing in a min-max'd Onslaught build in noCP. Note that I'd get even more tooltip damage with something other than Balorgh (and I haven't transmuted the jewelry to Infused yet on that build to add another 500'ish to tooltip).
...and here's a min-max'd bow build (again in noCP):
Same buffs etc, you can see that even with Long Shots you won't be dealing more damage with Lethal Arrow (except with Asylum Bow).
If I were to nitpick I'd point out that Dizzying Swing also benefits from the bosmer/khajiit stealth damage & NB +10% weapon dmg passives as unlike with bow you actually land the hardest hitting ability first (where as bow typically lands the light attack before Lethal Arrow).
Builds aren't even remotely the same.
In addition to not adding the multiplicative longshots passive.
Obviously.
There's different things you slot to min-max bow & different things you slot to min-max 2H melee dmg.usmcjdking wrote: »In addition to not adding the multiplicative longshots passive.
If you bothered to read:DDuke wrote:Same buffs etc, you can see that even with Long Shots you won't be dealing more damage with Lethal Arrow (except with Asylum Bow).
You could add a flat +12% (which Long Shots isn't - it's bundled up with every other % modifier) to that Lethal Arrow tooltip & it wouldn't surpass the Dizzying Swing one.
I didn't say they would deal the same damage, but that puts it at ~ 92% of the damage of a melee, 1 second channel that is significantly less forgiving in executing and far more dangerous to execute as it puts you in range of melee & ranged attacks.
So what entirely is your point?
Point is thatusmcjdking wrote:Uppercut will only deal more damage in the event you aren't getting anything significant out of longshots.
...is fake news and only serves to cause more people to QQ about the damage of snipe (which isn't the issue - bugs/exploits are).
Same build or don't bother responding.
Ok, with 5 Spriggan 5 Automaton 1 Kra'gh 1 Kena on both:
Lethal Arrow
12 472+(12%[Long Shots]+8%[Minor Berserk]+5%[Hawk's Eye])=15 590
Dizzying Swing
13 261+(5%[Heavy Weapons]+8%[Minor Berserk]+10%[Stealthy])=16 311
Also worth noting that a maximum range Lethal Arrow means you won't have any follow up burst, where as someone in melee range can easily follow up with anything from Incap to Onslaught.
What next, should I educate you about the maximum burst of a max range snipe spammer & compare it to a 2H Dizzying Swing/Wrecking Blow gank build?
I get that people want to hate on bow and snipers, but I'm sure that can be done without making up stuff and by focusing on the actual issues with it.
Okay, I'm actually done with you and your inability to give me anything remotely concrete.
I'm going to post a UESP build. Buffs are the same on both bars, gear is the same on both bars, traits on the weapons are the same. My bow bar Lethal Arrow tooltip is higher than my WB tooltip after a simple 6% bonus from Longshots.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=28282
This is with the benefit of 2H sword. Remove the sword and it's not even close.
First mistake: you're not calculating buffs manually. On UESP they are not bundled up as they should be. Orc melee passive for instance isn't registered at all on that site.
Lethal Arrow
13 578+(12%[Long Shots]+5%[Hawk's Eye]+15%[Master-at-Arms]+11%[Mighty])=19 416
Wrecking Blow
14 420+(5%[Heavy Weapons]+4%[Swift Warrior]+15%[Master-at-Arms]+11%[Mighty])=19 467
These would be the "real" numbers for your setup (and I do hope you do not use that for ganking...) & I'd read up on "jump points" for better CP allocation.usmcjdking wrote: »Also, auto + lethal arrow? Are you serious. LMAO. Get out of my thread.
Typo.
Rest assured I had Focused Aim morph on the bar.
If you think Snipe is so powerful, why don't you fight me on PTS? I'll slot Dizzying Swing and you'll slot Snipe, we'll see how that goes
Though to be fair fighting someone who can't even allocate CPs properly or calculate tooltips wouldn't really be indicative of anything.
Why are you posting?0331
06020 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »This thread is ridiculous...
Obviously what they should do is reduce to range of Snipe to 7 meters, to match Uppercut. You have it totally backwards!
I see people already do those melee snipes when ganking with Incaps & whatnot.
Shame they haven't realized yet they could use Uppercut for much more damage (yes, it deals more damage) since they're in melee range anyway.
Uppercut will only deal more damage in the event you aren't getting anything significant out of longshots.
Yeah... no.
This is Dizzying Swing in a min-max'd Onslaught build in noCP. Note that I'd get even more tooltip damage with something other than Balorgh (and I haven't transmuted the jewelry to Infused yet on that build to add another 500'ish to tooltip).
...and here's a min-max'd bow build (again in noCP):
Same buffs etc, you can see that even with Long Shots you won't be dealing more damage with Lethal Arrow (except with Asylum Bow).
If I were to nitpick I'd point out that Dizzying Swing also benefits from the bosmer/khajiit stealth damage & NB +10% weapon dmg passives as unlike with bow you actually land the hardest hitting ability first (where as bow typically lands the light attack before Lethal Arrow).
Builds aren't even remotely the same.
In addition to not adding the multiplicative longshots passive.
Obviously.
There's different things you slot to min-max bow & different things you slot to min-max 2H melee dmg.usmcjdking wrote: »In addition to not adding the multiplicative longshots passive.
If you bothered to read:DDuke wrote:Same buffs etc, you can see that even with Long Shots you won't be dealing more damage with Lethal Arrow (except with Asylum Bow).
You could add a flat +12% (which Long Shots isn't - it's bundled up with every other % modifier) to that Lethal Arrow tooltip & it wouldn't surpass the Dizzying Swing one.
I didn't say they would deal the same damage, but that puts it at ~ 92% of the damage of a melee, 1 second channel that is significantly less forgiving in executing and far more dangerous to execute as it puts you in range of melee & ranged attacks.
So what entirely is your point?
Point is thatusmcjdking wrote:Uppercut will only deal more damage in the event you aren't getting anything significant out of longshots.
...is fake news and only serves to cause more people to QQ about the damage of snipe (which isn't the issue - bugs/exploits are).
Same build or don't bother responding.
Ok, with 5 Spriggan 5 Automaton 1 Kra'gh 1 Kena on both:
Lethal Arrow
12 472+(12%[Long Shots]+8%[Minor Berserk]+5%[Hawk's Eye])=15 590
Dizzying Swing
13 261+(5%[Heavy Weapons]+8%[Minor Berserk]+10%[Stealthy])=16 311
Also worth noting that a maximum range Lethal Arrow means you won't have any follow up burst, where as someone in melee range can easily follow up with anything from Incap to Onslaught.
What next, should I educate you about the maximum burst of a max range snipe spammer & compare it to a 2H Dizzying Swing/Wrecking Blow gank build?
I get that people want to hate on bow and snipers, but I'm sure that can be done without making up stuff and by focusing on the actual issues with it.
Okay, I'm actually done with you and your inability to give me anything remotely concrete.
I'm going to post a UESP build. Buffs are the same on both bars, gear is the same on both bars, traits on the weapons are the same. My bow bar Lethal Arrow tooltip is higher than my WB tooltip after a simple 6% bonus from Longshots.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=28282
This is with the benefit of 2H sword. Remove the sword and it's not even close.
First mistake: you're not calculating buffs manually. On UESP they are not bundled up as they should be. Orc melee passive for instance isn't registered at all on that site.
Lethal Arrow
13 578+(12%[Long Shots]+5%[Hawk's Eye]+15%[Master-at-Arms]+11%[Mighty])=19 416
Wrecking Blow
14 420+(5%[Heavy Weapons]+4%[Swift Warrior]+15%[Master-at-Arms]+11%[Mighty])=19 467
These would be the "real" numbers for your setup (and I do hope you do not use that for ganking...) & I'd read up on "jump points" for better CP allocation.usmcjdking wrote: »Also, auto + lethal arrow? Are you serious. LMAO. Get out of my thread.
Typo.
Rest assured I had Focused Aim morph on the bar.
If you think Snipe is so powerful, why don't you fight me on PTS? I'll slot Dizzying Swing and you'll slot Snipe, we'll see how that goes
Though to be fair fighting someone who can't even allocate CPs properly or calculate tooltips wouldn't really be indicative of anything.
Why are you posting?
Few reasons:- You don't want me to.
- I'm right, you're wrong (as proven above).
- Entertainment.
2 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »This thread is ridiculous...
Obviously what they should do is reduce to range of Snipe to 7 meters, to match Uppercut. You have it totally backwards!
I see people already do those melee snipes when ganking with Incaps & whatnot.
Shame they haven't realized yet they could use Uppercut for much more damage (yes, it deals more damage) since they're in melee range anyway.
Uppercut will only deal more damage in the event you aren't getting anything significant out of longshots.
Yeah... no.
This is Dizzying Swing in a min-max'd Onslaught build in noCP. Note that I'd get even more tooltip damage with something other than Balorgh (and I haven't transmuted the jewelry to Infused yet on that build to add another 500'ish to tooltip).
...and here's a min-max'd bow build (again in noCP):
Same buffs etc, you can see that even with Long Shots you won't be dealing more damage with Lethal Arrow (except with Asylum Bow).
If I were to nitpick I'd point out that Dizzying Swing also benefits from the bosmer/khajiit stealth damage & NB +10% weapon dmg passives as unlike with bow you actually land the hardest hitting ability first (where as bow typically lands the light attack before Lethal Arrow).
Builds aren't even remotely the same.
In addition to not adding the multiplicative longshots passive.
Obviously.
There's different things you slot to min-max bow & different things you slot to min-max 2H melee dmg.usmcjdking wrote: »In addition to not adding the multiplicative longshots passive.
If you bothered to read:DDuke wrote:Same buffs etc, you can see that even with Long Shots you won't be dealing more damage with Lethal Arrow (except with Asylum Bow).
You could add a flat +12% (which Long Shots isn't - it's bundled up with every other % modifier) to that Lethal Arrow tooltip & it wouldn't surpass the Dizzying Swing one.
I didn't say they would deal the same damage, but that puts it at ~ 92% of the damage of a melee, 1 second channel that is significantly less forgiving in executing and far more dangerous to execute as it puts you in range of melee & ranged attacks.
So what entirely is your point?
Point is thatusmcjdking wrote:Uppercut will only deal more damage in the event you aren't getting anything significant out of longshots.
...is fake news and only serves to cause more people to QQ about the damage of snipe (which isn't the issue - bugs/exploits are).
Same build or don't bother responding.
Ok, with 5 Spriggan 5 Automaton 1 Kra'gh 1 Kena on both:
Lethal Arrow
12 472+(12%[Long Shots]+8%[Minor Berserk]+5%[Hawk's Eye])=15 590
Dizzying Swing
13 261+(5%[Heavy Weapons]+8%[Minor Berserk]+10%[Stealthy])=16 311
Also worth noting that a maximum range Lethal Arrow means you won't have any follow up burst, where as someone in melee range can easily follow up with anything from Incap to Onslaught.
What next, should I educate you about the maximum burst of a max range snipe spammer & compare it to a 2H Dizzying Swing/Wrecking Blow gank build?
I get that people want to hate on bow and snipers, but I'm sure that can be done without making up stuff and by focusing on the actual issues with it.
Okay, I'm actually done with you and your inability to give me anything remotely concrete.
I'm going to post a UESP build. Buffs are the same on both bars, gear is the same on both bars, traits on the weapons are the same. My bow bar Lethal Arrow tooltip is higher than my WB tooltip after a simple 6% bonus from Longshots.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=28282
This is with the benefit of 2H sword. Remove the sword and it's not even close.
First mistake: you're not calculating buffs manually. On UESP they are not bundled up as they should be. Orc melee passive for instance isn't registered at all on that site.
Lethal Arrow
13 578+(12%[Long Shots]+5%[Hawk's Eye]+15%[Master-at-Arms]+11%[Mighty])=19 416
Wrecking Blow
14 420+(5%[Heavy Weapons]+4%[Swift Warrior]+15%[Master-at-Arms]+11%[Mighty])=19 467
These would be the "real" numbers for your setup (and I do hope you do not use that for ganking...) & I'd read up on "jump points" for better CP allocation.usmcjdking wrote: »Also, auto + lethal arrow? Are you serious. LMAO. Get out of my thread.
Typo.
Rest assured I had Focused Aim morph on the bar.
If you think Snipe is so powerful, why don't you fight me on PTS? I'll slot Dizzying Swing and you'll slot Snipe, we'll see how that goes
Though to be fair fighting someone who can't even allocate CPs properly or calculate tooltips wouldn't really be indicative of anything.
Why are you posting?
Few reasons:- You don't want me to.
- I'm right, you're wrong (as proven above).
- Entertainment.
You've done nothing but pollute my thread with nothing but uncontrolled garbage, and when confronted with something relatively concrete, you post more uncontrolled garbage.
Does the term control mean anything to you?
0331
06020 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »This thread is ridiculous...
Obviously what they should do is reduce to range of Snipe to 7 meters, to match Uppercut. You have it totally backwards!
I see people already do those melee snipes when ganking with Incaps & whatnot.
Shame they haven't realized yet they could use Uppercut for much more damage (yes, it deals more damage) since they're in melee range anyway.
Uppercut will only deal more damage in the event you aren't getting anything significant out of longshots.
Yeah... no.
This is Dizzying Swing in a min-max'd Onslaught build in noCP. Note that I'd get even more tooltip damage with something other than Balorgh (and I haven't transmuted the jewelry to Infused yet on that build to add another 500'ish to tooltip).
...and here's a min-max'd bow build (again in noCP):
Same buffs etc, you can see that even with Long Shots you won't be dealing more damage with Lethal Arrow (except with Asylum Bow).
If I were to nitpick I'd point out that Dizzying Swing also benefits from the bosmer/khajiit stealth damage & NB +10% weapon dmg passives as unlike with bow you actually land the hardest hitting ability first (where as bow typically lands the light attack before Lethal Arrow).
Builds aren't even remotely the same.
In addition to not adding the multiplicative longshots passive.
Obviously.
There's different things you slot to min-max bow & different things you slot to min-max 2H melee dmg.usmcjdking wrote: »In addition to not adding the multiplicative longshots passive.
If you bothered to read:DDuke wrote:Same buffs etc, you can see that even with Long Shots you won't be dealing more damage with Lethal Arrow (except with Asylum Bow).
You could add a flat +12% (which Long Shots isn't - it's bundled up with every other % modifier) to that Lethal Arrow tooltip & it wouldn't surpass the Dizzying Swing one.
I didn't say they would deal the same damage, but that puts it at ~ 92% of the damage of a melee, 1 second channel that is significantly less forgiving in executing and far more dangerous to execute as it puts you in range of melee & ranged attacks.
So what entirely is your point?
Point is thatusmcjdking wrote:Uppercut will only deal more damage in the event you aren't getting anything significant out of longshots.
...is fake news and only serves to cause more people to QQ about the damage of snipe (which isn't the issue - bugs/exploits are).
Same build or don't bother responding.
Ok, with 5 Spriggan 5 Automaton 1 Kra'gh 1 Kena on both:
Lethal Arrow
12 472+(12%[Long Shots]+8%[Minor Berserk]+5%[Hawk's Eye])=15 590
Dizzying Swing
13 261+(5%[Heavy Weapons]+8%[Minor Berserk]+10%[Stealthy])=16 311
Also worth noting that a maximum range Lethal Arrow means you won't have any follow up burst, where as someone in melee range can easily follow up with anything from Incap to Onslaught.
What next, should I educate you about the maximum burst of a max range snipe spammer & compare it to a 2H Dizzying Swing/Wrecking Blow gank build?
I get that people want to hate on bow and snipers, but I'm sure that can be done without making up stuff and by focusing on the actual issues with it.
Okay, I'm actually done with you and your inability to give me anything remotely concrete.
I'm going to post a UESP build. Buffs are the same on both bars, gear is the same on both bars, traits on the weapons are the same. My bow bar Lethal Arrow tooltip is higher than my WB tooltip after a simple 6% bonus from Longshots.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=28282
This is with the benefit of 2H sword. Remove the sword and it's not even close.
First mistake: you're not calculating buffs manually. On UESP they are not bundled up as they should be. Orc melee passive for instance isn't registered at all on that site.
Lethal Arrow
13 578+(12%[Long Shots]+5%[Hawk's Eye]+15%[Master-at-Arms]+11%[Mighty])=19 416
Wrecking Blow
14 420+(5%[Heavy Weapons]+4%[Swift Warrior]+15%[Master-at-Arms]+11%[Mighty])=19 467
These would be the "real" numbers for your setup (and I do hope you do not use that for ganking...) & I'd read up on "jump points" for better CP allocation.usmcjdking wrote: »Also, auto + lethal arrow? Are you serious. LMAO. Get out of my thread.
Typo.
Rest assured I had Focused Aim morph on the bar.
If you think Snipe is so powerful, why don't you fight me on PTS? I'll slot Dizzying Swing and you'll slot Snipe, we'll see how that goes
Though to be fair fighting someone who can't even allocate CPs properly or calculate tooltips wouldn't really be indicative of anything.
Why are you posting?
Few reasons:- You don't want me to.
- I'm right, you're wrong (as proven above).
- Entertainment.
You've done nothing but pollute my thread with nothing but uncontrolled garbage, and when confronted with something relatively concrete, you post more uncontrolled garbage.
Does the term control mean anything to you?
"Uncontrolled garbage" is how I would define posting random, inaccurate numbers in an attempt to portray something in a negative light - which is something that can have negative ramifications when someone reading your posts doesn't realize the numbers aren't accurate and decides to join the bow hate bandwagon.
If you want to complain about snipe (and yes, there's plenty to complain about), stick to the facts please.Edited by DDuke on October 2, 2018 3:05AM1 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This thread makes me giggle but one thing is for sure, the day is coming where different skills will no longer be different skills.
In true elder scrolls fashion, we will soon havea patch where someone will beat future content using only light attacks.
Oh wait someone can already do that in vMA lol.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »To match it's bow cousin, Snipe. They do about the same damage, with the same cast time and targeting requirements so I see no reason why they shouldn't have the same range.
Balance.
I think i need to print screen this and laugh with it in my darkest times.
Mighty ESO forum whining warriors UNITE for "BALANCE"1 -
HuawaSepp✭✭✭Delete or hide the animation and sound of either uppercut(+40m) or snipe, only then it will be a buff.
+ not revealing the user from stealth.Edited by HuawaSepp on October 2, 2018 4:42AMPTS-EU0 -
Bergzorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭This reminds me of something.
Edited by Bergzorn on October 2, 2018 7:56AMno CP PvP PC/EU
EP Zergborn
DC Zerg Beacon
guild master, raid leader, janitor, and only member of Zergbored0 -
Septimus_Magna✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lol, last time I died to Snipe was years ago.
You cannot really compare skills so isolated.
Most players use Uppercut and follow up with Dawnbreaker+execute which makes it a strong bursty combo.
I havent seen that combo with Snipe lately..PC - EU (AD)Septimus Mezar - Altmer Sorcerer
Septimus Rulanir - Orsimer Templar
Septimus Desmoru - Khajiit Necromancer
Septimus Iroh - Dunmer Dragon Knight
Septimus Thragar - Dunmer Nightblade
Septimus Jah'zar - Khajiit Nightblade
Septimus Nerox - Redguard Warden
Septimus Ozurk - Orsimer Sorcerer2 -
Lord_Ninka✭✭✭What you say about range is obviously a joke, but you have a very good point never the less. Snipe can deal just as much damage as uppercut, is harder to see coming despite it's travel time, harder to counter (it's sooo easy to get out of range of uppercut in time, dodge or block), the secondary effects of the morphs are possibly even stronger with snipe and they cost the same.
I'd suggest making Uppercut cheaper, but then it'll probably just become even more of a spammed noob killer in battlegrounds, and that wouldn't be great. It's just that it's pretty useless against experienced players. I'm not great, and yet I only get hit like 1 or 2 times out of 10 when people try it on me.
It's only really powerful when you coordinate and get an ally to stun your target while you're mid-cast as I see it. And it's cool to have abilities like that in the game which need an ally to back you up, but once again, when you compare it to snipe, something definitely looks wrong in my eyes too.0
