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Swords are Useless

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Strider__Roshin
Strider__Roshin
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Now that shields have their resistances applied. I can't justify using a Sword over an Axe or a Maul in any scenario.
  • Alpheu5
    Alpheu5
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    Are you talking about DW or S&B?
    Dalek-Rok - Argonian Sorcerer || Dalek-Shād - Argonian Nightblade || Dalek-Shul - Argonian Templar || Dalek-Xal - Argonian Dragonknight || Mounts-the-Snout - Argonian Warden || Dalek-Xul - Argonian Necromancer || Two-Spires - Argonian Arcanist || Dalek-Nesh - Argonian Sorcerer || Dalek-Kör - Argonian Dragonknight
    Judas Helviaryn wrote: »
    Don't incorporate bugs into your builds, and you won't have [an] issue.
  • AllPlayAndNoWork
    AllPlayAndNoWork
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    Turn it round and use the pointy end......
  • glavius
    glavius
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    Sword for high burst/gank style. A delayed dot is useless for that.
    https://www.youtube.com/user/glaviustube
  • Strider__Roshin
    Strider__Roshin
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    glavius wrote: »
    Sword for high burst/gank style. A delayed dot is useless for that.

    Maul is better for that.
  • usmguy1234
    usmguy1234
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    Daus wrote: »
    Now that shields have their resistances applied. I can't justify using a Sword over an Axe or a Maul in any scenario.

    Hey Daus, I've been missing your valuable input on the sorc discord. At least decimus stayed around to offer condolences. You disappeared like a one-night stand.
    Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
    Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
    Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
    Eirius- Altmer Magdk
    Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar

    Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.

  • Olupajmibanan
    Olupajmibanan
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    Maul is better in any scenario now.

    Not even saying that sword bonus isn't 5% in reality but something like 3,6%, due to placement of the bonus in calculation formula. (The same is true for twin blade and blunt bonus, minor slayer and major slayer)
    Edited by Olupajmibanan on October 1, 2018 3:33PM
  • glavius
    glavius
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    Daus wrote: »
    glavius wrote: »
    Sword for high burst/gank style. A delayed dot is useless for that.

    Maul is better for that.

    With the way mitigation is calculated, not really. Unless you mainly gank very high armor types, which kinda goes against the whole idea of ganking.
    https://www.youtube.com/user/glaviustube
  • Rikumaru
    Rikumaru
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    Swords have one advantage axes and mauls do not have. They look cool.
    Overload rework. Power Overload now does physical damage and grants you the power of a tornado: You throw a brick at the target with a light attack, and you hammer your head into that brick with every heavy attack. We have decreased its Ultimate cost, but increased the chance that you get stuck in the animation.
  • Sarousse
    Sarousse
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    glavius wrote: »
    Unless you mainly gank very high armor types, which kinda goes against the whole idea of ganking.

    Well, unless you weren't in Cyro the last weeks, everyone is running around with 24k+ resists (not talking about foolish targets that want to instant rip).

    So yeah, having a ton of penetration is very important nowadays.

  • HankTwo
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    I agree. Unless they rebalance the heavy weapons and twin blade and blunt passives, swords will be by far the weakest melee weapon type in the upcoming update. They are already underwhelming right now, and the changes to damage shields will make them worst in slot in almost any PvP situation.
    PC EU
    Stam DK, Magden, Magplar, Stamcro, Hybrid Sorc, Magblade & Mag DK
  • Olupajmibanan
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    glavius wrote: »
    Daus wrote: »
    glavius wrote: »
    Sword for high burst/gank style. A delayed dot is useless for that.

    Maul is better for that.

    With the way mitigation is calculated, not really. Unless you mainly gank very high armor types, which kinda goes against the whole idea of ganking.

    Let's talk about non-CP environment only.
    Average player has physical resistance of something like 15k. Let's assume that we go meta build with nirn 2h and don't have reliable source of minor fracture. That brings us to +-10k (after major fracture). 2k penetration that you get from the Maul is better than the effective 3,6% damage increase from Greatsword.
    Edited by Olupajmibanan on October 1, 2018 3:40PM
  • Nevasca
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    Rikumaru wrote: »
    Swords have one advantage axes and mauls do not have. They look cool.

    Nah, you can use Maul and make it look like a Greatsword with the outfit system. GG. I agree with the post. I think Swords could use a buff.
  • Strider__Roshin
    Strider__Roshin
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    usmguy1234 wrote: »
    Daus wrote: »
    Now that shields have their resistances applied. I can't justify using a Sword over an Axe or a Maul in any scenario.

    Hey Daus, I've been missing your valuable input on the sorc discord. At least decimus stayed around to offer condolences. You disappeared like a one-night stand.

    Lol sorry bud, I've been playing a lot of Destiny 2 so I haven't been super active. I think my magsorc build is almost complete, but I need to do some more number crunching on the PTS. Trying to titrate my health and magicka to give me 40% without investing into bastion. That way it's not less than 40% in non-CP.

    I'm using an Argonian now btw. Although shields are still stronger than heals I think it would be best to have a mixture of both. I'm still experimenting though.
  • brandonv516
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    As a Magicka character there is no other option but sword when running a 2H build.
  • Feanor
    Feanor
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    That’s actually really hilarious. As another upside of the shield nerfs building a stamina char just became a lot easier. Before you had to decide if you want to be better against non-Shield targets (stack penetration and crit) or against shielded targets (stack weapon damage). Now you just have to stack pen and crit for the overall better package. Well done ZOS.
    Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:
    Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard Stamplar
    All chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.
  • glavius
    glavius
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    Olupajmibanan wrote: »
    glavius wrote: »
    Daus wrote: »
    glavius wrote: »
    Sword for high burst/gank style. A delayed dot is useless for that.

    Maul is better for that.

    With the way mitigation is calculated, not really. Unless you mainly gank very high armor types, which kinda goes against the whole idea of ganking.

    Let's talk about non-CP environment only.
    Average player has physical resistance of something like 15k. Let's assume that we go meta build with nirn 2h and don't have reliable source of minor fracture. That brings us to +-10k (after major fracture). 2k penetration that you get from the Maul is better than the effective 3,6% damage increase from Greatsword.

    You are wrong. For no cp, swords and maces do EXACTLY the same damage at 18493 armor (5 medium 2 heavy and major armor buff) Medium users (often nbs) generally wont have major armor buff up 100% of the time so sword slightly better here) Light armor sorcs generally don't even use armor buffs so swords far better here.

    And "drumroll"
    Against the 24k+ armor guys that are quite correctly common in cyrodiil, axes are a far better choice.

    Calculations here:
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/426277/the-comprehensive-penetration-calculator
    https://www.youtube.com/user/glaviustube
  • mojomood
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    Swords boost your healing skills, mauls/axes do not.

    Since the bleeds buff, Axes (especially with the Master's axes) have beaten everything. Having a Heavy Attack into Rending Slashes proc 2 bleeds with one of them buffed like crazy from the Master's axes and all of them ignoring resistance and be able to crit is OP. That is really what makes mauls weak. Getting 20% penetration on every attack skill or 100% penetration on 2 huge DOTs that can be applied at one time.

    As long as bleeds stay as they are, axes will be best in PvP. The pen change is not a big enough buff to mauls to put them above swords unless you have no other source of Penetration.

    For Magicka DW/SNB/2H builds, swords are still best.
  • Sarousse
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    glavius wrote: »
    And "drumroll"
    Against the 24k+ armor guys that are quite correctly common in cyrodiil, axes are a far better choice.

    Calculations here:
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/426277/the-comprehensive-penetration-calculator

    That's why my master weapons are axe and mace for double pain :D
  • Nevasca
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    mojomood wrote: »
    Swords boost your healing skills, mauls/axes do not.

    It doesn't, actually. I used to believe that as well, but you can easily test it. I don't know why we get this confusion everytime.
  • TheYKcid
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    You can calculate exactly how much DPS a maul provides (given your specific build, and the build of your target) using this excel calculator I put together a while back:

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/426277/the-comprehensive-penetration-calculator/p1

    The following example involves a build using a maul with no additional penetration (eg. Stamsorc in no-CP). Even against a light armor target with just 15k resistances, the maul adds 5.8% damage, which already outclasses the greatsword (which can be even less than 5% due to diminishing stacking with other buffs).

    P3phQcO.png

    If you tweak the scenario for CP and give the attacker Major Fracture and 40 points into the penetration CP star (for 3397 pen)—a situation that is very disadvantageous to the maul—it still adds 3.2% DPS on the same target. Swords in the same scenario would add about 3.9% since they stack diminishingly with your CP bonuses, and even less if you have other %-damage bonus buffs/passive (minor berserk, racials, etc). The difference, even under unfavourable conditions for the maul, is pretty minimal.

    9BO5rwt.png

    So even against light armor, the maul can be similar or even better than swords depending on the scenario. On medium and heavy targets, it outperforms by a large margin.

    On live, aside from melee mag builds that are forced to run them, swords have been the worst option for a long time. Mauls deliver generally better burst over a wider range of scenarios (and absolutely shred heavy), daggers have better scaling with your other damage buffs AND your heals, while axes are king for single-target pressure.

    The Murkmire changes to shields are going to remove the one case where swords had an advantage, and make them even less viable. They should be buffed.
    Edited by TheYKcid on October 1, 2018 4:57PM
    PC/NA — Daggerfall Covenant — BGs, Kaalgrontiid
    Kalazar Chalhoub — Redguard Nord Stamplar
    Kalaron Caemor — Altmer Magsorc
    Kalahad Cirith — Dunmer Magden
    The Comprehensive [ Penetration Calculator ]
  • usmguy1234
    usmguy1234
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    Daus wrote: »
    usmguy1234 wrote: »
    Daus wrote: »
    Now that shields have their resistances applied. I can't justify using a Sword over an Axe or a Maul in any scenario.

    Hey Daus, I've been missing your valuable input on the sorc discord. At least decimus stayed around to offer condolences. You disappeared like a one-night stand.

    Lol sorry bud, I've been playing a lot of Destiny 2 so I haven't been super active. I think my magsorc build is almost complete, but I need to do some more number crunching on the PTS. Trying to titrate my health and magicka to give me 40% without investing into bastion. That way it's not less than 40% in non-CP.

    I'm using an Argonian now btw. Although shields are still stronger than heals I think it would be best to have a mixture of both. I'm still experimenting though.

    I'm probably going to ride the storm out on my Templars. Got good builds for both of them atm.
    Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
    Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
    Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
    Eirius- Altmer Magdk
    Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar

    Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.

  • TheYKcid
    TheYKcid
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    Also, as a PSA, try to avoid running a single 1H sword when using dual-wield, as they are currently bugged and only provide a 2% damage bonus instead of the 2.5 they're supposed to:

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/434051/twin-blade-blunt-dual-wield-passive-single-swords-are-only-adding-2-damage/p1
    PC/NA — Daggerfall Covenant — BGs, Kaalgrontiid
    Kalazar Chalhoub — Redguard Nord Stamplar
    Kalaron Caemor — Altmer Magsorc
    Kalahad Cirith — Dunmer Magden
    The Comprehensive [ Penetration Calculator ]
  • Strider__Roshin
    Strider__Roshin
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    usmguy1234 wrote: »
    Daus wrote: »
    usmguy1234 wrote: »
    Daus wrote: »
    Now that shields have their resistances applied. I can't justify using a Sword over an Axe or a Maul in any scenario.

    Hey Daus, I've been missing your valuable input on the sorc discord. At least decimus stayed around to offer condolences. You disappeared like a one-night stand.

    Lol sorry bud, I've been playing a lot of Destiny 2 so I haven't been super active. I think my magsorc build is almost complete, but I need to do some more number crunching on the PTS. Trying to titrate my health and magicka to give me 40% without investing into bastion. That way it's not less than 40% in non-CP.

    I'm using an Argonian now btw. Although shields are still stronger than heals I think it would be best to have a mixture of both. I'm still experimenting though.

    I'm probably going to ride the storm out on my Templars. Got good builds for both of them atm.

    Are you on the PTS? It's hard finding people to test out builds via dueling.
  • Bobleeswaggen
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    mojomood wrote: »

    For Magicka DW/SNB/2H builds, swords are still best.

    Why SNB?

    Redguard Dragonknight - Ebonheart Pact - Denzel Roundbelly (PVP Main)
    High Elf Sorcerer - Ebonheart Pact - Skinny Roundbelly (PVE Main - Stormproof)
  • Minno
    Minno
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    Daus wrote: »
    usmguy1234 wrote: »
    Daus wrote: »
    usmguy1234 wrote: »
    Daus wrote: »
    Now that shields have their resistances applied. I can't justify using a Sword over an Axe or a Maul in any scenario.

    Hey Daus, I've been missing your valuable input on the sorc discord. At least decimus stayed around to offer condolences. You disappeared like a one-night stand.

    Lol sorry bud, I've been playing a lot of Destiny 2 so I haven't been super active. I think my magsorc build is almost complete, but I need to do some more number crunching on the PTS. Trying to titrate my health and magicka to give me 40% without investing into bastion. That way it's not less than 40% in non-CP.

    I'm using an Argonian now btw. Although shields are still stronger than heals I think it would be best to have a mixture of both. I'm still experimenting though.

    I'm probably going to ride the storm out on my Templars. Got good builds for both of them atm.

    Are you on the PTS? It's hard finding people to test out builds via dueling.

    Head to Rawk. Last I was on, before work, there was at least 3 dueling.

    Everyone just head there for the duels on PTS.
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • Strider__Roshin
    Strider__Roshin
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    Minno wrote: »
    Daus wrote: »
    usmguy1234 wrote: »
    Daus wrote: »
    usmguy1234 wrote: »
    Daus wrote: »
    Now that shields have their resistances applied. I can't justify using a Sword over an Axe or a Maul in any scenario.

    Hey Daus, I've been missing your valuable input on the sorc discord. At least decimus stayed around to offer condolences. You disappeared like a one-night stand.

    Lol sorry bud, I've been playing a lot of Destiny 2 so I haven't been super active. I think my magsorc build is almost complete, but I need to do some more number crunching on the PTS. Trying to titrate my health and magicka to give me 40% without investing into bastion. That way it's not less than 40% in non-CP.

    I'm using an Argonian now btw. Although shields are still stronger than heals I think it would be best to have a mixture of both. I'm still experimenting though.

    I'm probably going to ride the storm out on my Templars. Got good builds for both of them atm.

    Are you on the PTS? It's hard finding people to test out builds via dueling.

    Head to Rawk. Last I was on, before work, there was at least 3 dueling.

    Everyone just head there for the duels on PTS.

    Thanks bud, I've just been checking out the capitals
  • Beardimus
    Beardimus
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    Daus wrote: »
    Now that shields have their resistances applied. I can't justify using a Sword over an Axe or a Maul in any scenario.

    Are you suggesting wards got buffed? (if you are using swords?)
    Xbox One | EU | EP
    Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
    Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
    1st Emperor of Ravenwatch
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  • Strider__Roshin
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    Beardimus wrote: »
    Daus wrote: »
    Now that shields have their resistances applied. I can't justify using a Sword over an Axe or a Maul in any scenario.

    Are you suggesting wards got buffed? (if you are using swords?)

    No, swords still do more damage against light armor opponents, but now the damage is only around 0.5% more than a Maul on average. And since Mauls do more damage against medium, and especially heavy armor; you can't rationalize using a Sword over a Maul.
  • Mettaricana
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    Agreed buff the other options maybe add a bit of 2.5% crit for swords
  • idk
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    Alpheu5 wrote: »
    Are you talking about DW or S&B?

    Obviously DW since it is irrelevant what someone uses with S&B.
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