If You're Going to Nerf Swift & FM

JPcrazysquirrel3

If ZOS wants to nerf Swift and Forward Momentum, I have no issue with that. What they need to do, to have some sort of consistency between magicka versus stamina, is have an ability accessible to magicka builds that grants CC and immovability immunity without having to be a vampire. This is even more so desirable, since ZOS has shown no interest in making the vampirism appearance appealing, or creating a skin that we could use that reverts our characters back to their more attractive selves.

Taleof2Cities

Huh?

You’re asking for combat changes in response to your perceived deficiency in cosmetic appearance?

Really?

Tonturri

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Huh?

You’re asking for combat changes in response to your perceived deficiency in cosmetic appearance?

Really?

Might I recommend reading the first half of this extremely long and complex OP. It contains some vital information.

idk

Tonturri wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Huh?

You’re asking for combat changes in response to your perceived deficiency in cosmetic appearance?

Really?

Might I recommend reading the first half of this extremely long and complex OP. It contains some vital information.

And still a seems a very odd message.

Nox_Noir

If they do that, I would also appreciate if they could reduce the severity of snares overall, and maybe give roots a short CC immunity for soft-CC like root as well.
CC prevalence in combat is too severe IMO...

idk

Nox_Noir wrote: »

If they do that, I would also appreciate if they could reduce the severity of snares overall, and maybe give roots a short CC immunity for soft-CC like root as well.
CC prevalence in combat is too severe IMO...

Zos did that last update, irrc. They reduced the length of snares.

mr_wazzabi

Where did the devs mention they were thinking of nerfing swift? Is this just hearsay?

idk

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Where did the devs mention they were thinking of nerfing swift? Is this just hearsay?

iirc I read it in the notes from this weeks class rep meeting. It is not hearsay.

Edit:

Yep, below is straight from what Gina posted.

ZOS told us they are aware players are moving too fast and are too difficult to target with melee and short ranged abilities. They want to slow us down. Swift Jewelry was something that was specifically mentioned. The Major Expedition buff being too strong was hinted at. The reps agreed that players are too fast and that Swift Jewelry is a primary offender,

Nox_Noir

idk wrote: »

Nox_Noir wrote: »

If they do that, I would also appreciate if they could reduce the severity of snares overall, and maybe give roots a short CC immunity for soft-CC like root as well.
CC prevalence in combat is too severe IMO...

Zos did that last update, irrc. They reduced the length of snares.

Yea and that didn't really do much of anything. They also need to reduce the effectiveness.

lucky_Sage

Nox_Noir wrote: »

If they do that, I would also appreciate if they could reduce the severity of snares overall, and maybe give roots a short CC immunity for soft-CC like root as well.
CC prevalence in combat is too severe IMO...

To bad atm roots almost completely usless

Maryal

swift is going to be blamed for everything, logic doesn't matter, it's all going to be swift's fault because some people have an agenda, others don't test, people are gullible, and haters are gonna hate.

enemy good at breaking free? blame swift
immovable pots used by enemy? blame swift
lag giving the enemy an advantage? blame swift
cc immunity actually working for enemy? blame swift
mediocre player skill reason for missed attack? blame swift
'god build' copied from a youtube video not providing sufficient kills to an under experienced player? blame swift
experienced player having to actually 'work' for a kill (fewer 'insta-kills)? blame swift

idk

Maryal wrote: »

swift is going to be blamed for everything, logic doesn't matter, it's all going to be swift's fault because some people have an agenda, others don't test, people are gullible, and haters are gonna hate.

good at breaking free? blame swift
immovable pots used? blame swift
lag giving the enemy an advantage? blame swift
cc immunity actually working? blame swift
mediocre player skill caused a miss? blame swift
'god build' copied from a youtube video not providing sufficient kills to an under experienced player? blame swift
experienced player having to actually 'work' for a kill (fewer 'insta-kills)? blame swift

And it is possible that Swift has pushed movement speed a little to far. Some might have an agenda arguing that it has not.

Maryal

idk wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

swift is going to be blamed for everything, logic doesn't matter, it's all going to be swift's fault because some people have an agenda, others don't test, people are gullible, and haters are gonna hate.

good at breaking free? blame swift
immovable pots used? blame swift
lag giving the enemy an advantage? blame swift
cc immunity actually working? blame swift
mediocre player skill caused a miss? blame swift
'god build' copied from a youtube video not providing sufficient kills to an under experienced player? blame swift
experienced player having to actually 'work' for a kill (fewer 'insta-kills)? blame swift

And it is possible that Swift has pushed movement speed a little to far. Some might have an agenda arguing that it has not.

Jewlery with a swift trait isn't giving anyone any more advantage than people were already able to get by creating a build that stacked into speed. The jewelry just makes that same result easier or less cumbersome to attain.

arkansas_ESO

Maryal wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

swift is going to be blamed for everything, logic doesn't matter, it's all going to be swift's fault because some people have an agenda, others don't test, people are gullible, and haters are gonna hate.

good at breaking free? blame swift
immovable pots used? blame swift
lag giving the enemy an advantage? blame swift
cc immunity actually working? blame swift
mediocre player skill caused a miss? blame swift
'god build' copied from a youtube video not providing sufficient kills to an under experienced player? blame swift
experienced player having to actually 'work' for a kill (fewer 'insta-kills)? blame swift

And it is possible that Swift has pushed movement speed a little to far. Some might have an agenda arguing that it has not.

Jewlery with a swift trait isn't giving anyone any more advantage than people already could get by creating a build that stacked into speed. The jewelry just makes it easier or less cumbersome to attain.

...which is why Swift is OP, because whereas before you had to invest almost entirely into speed to move this fast, now you can do so by running 3 Swift and using speed pots. There's little tradeoff.

idk

Maryal wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

swift is going to be blamed for everything, logic doesn't matter, it's all going to be swift's fault because some people have an agenda, others don't test, people are gullible, and haters are gonna hate.

good at breaking free? blame swift
immovable pots used? blame swift
lag giving the enemy an advantage? blame swift
cc immunity actually working? blame swift
mediocre player skill caused a miss? blame swift
'god build' copied from a youtube video not providing sufficient kills to an under experienced player? blame swift
experienced player having to actually 'work' for a kill (fewer 'insta-kills)? blame swift

And it is possible that Swift has pushed movement speed a little to far. Some might have an agenda arguing that it has not.

Jewlery with a swift trait isn't giving anyone any more advantage than people were already able to get by creating a build that stacked into speed. The jewelry just makes that same result easier or less cumbersome to attain.

Maye the case, making it easier to hit that max speed. If it does make it that much easier they may not be giving up as much to obtain it.

Good points and probably why the devs and class reps feel it is worth looking into.

Waffennacht

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

swift is going to be blamed for everything, logic doesn't matter, it's all going to be swift's fault because some people have an agenda, others don't test, people are gullible, and haters are gonna hate.

good at breaking free? blame swift
immovable pots used? blame swift
lag giving the enemy an advantage? blame swift
cc immunity actually working? blame swift
mediocre player skill caused a miss? blame swift
'god build' copied from a youtube video not providing sufficient kills to an under experienced player? blame swift
experienced player having to actually 'work' for a kill (fewer 'insta-kills)? blame swift

And it is possible that Swift has pushed movement speed a little to far. Some might have an agenda arguing that it has not.

Jewlery with a swift trait isn't giving anyone any more advantage than people already could get by creating a build that stacked into speed. The jewelry just makes it easier or less cumbersome to attain.

...which is why Swift is OP, because whereas before you had to invest almost entirely into speed to move this fast, now you can do so by running 3 Swift and using speed pots. There's little tradeoff.

Build entirely for it? Dunno about that. Without swift my Stam sorc doesn't have a single set dedicated to speed still would hit 80% more movement speed.

Swift just adds the last 20%

With expedition and Sprint everyone practically reaches the limit now

Edit: the only class that Needs swift is mag Templar. Just too, too slow, even if using mist form

Ragnarock41

Oh yeah, give magicka equal mobility tools so we have literally no reason to play stamina.

Maryal

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

swift is going to be blamed for everything, logic doesn't matter, it's all going to be swift's fault because some people have an agenda, others don't test, people are gullible, and haters are gonna hate.

good at breaking free? blame swift
immovable pots used? blame swift
lag giving the enemy an advantage? blame swift
cc immunity actually working? blame swift
mediocre player skill caused a miss? blame swift
'god build' copied from a youtube video not providing sufficient kills to an under experienced player? blame swift
experienced player having to actually 'work' for a kill (fewer 'insta-kills)? blame swift

And it is possible that Swift has pushed movement speed a little to far. Some might have an agenda arguing that it has not.

Jewlery with a swift trait isn't giving anyone any more advantage than people already could get by creating a build that stacked into speed. The jewelry just makes it easier or less cumbersome to attain.

...which is why Swift is OP, because whereas before you had to invest almost entirely into speed to move this fast, now you can do so by running 3 Swift and using speed pots. There's little tradeoff.

Choosing swift as a jewelry trait is in-and-of-itself giving up the other jewelry traits and often means you 'trade' speed for dps, sustain, or both.

And, no you didn't have to invest entirely into speed. It typically meant wearing a 5 piece armor set that provided major expedition (there are several that provide major expedition) and choosing an option that gave minor expedition or a form of expedition that otherwise stacked with major expedition: using Hurricane(optional), mundus stone Steed (optional), wearing 5 piece set Jailbreaker (optional), Orc passive for speed (optional). 'Building for speed' the old fashion way and building for speed via swift jewlery both require a trade off. Using swift jewelry is just more visible because people talk about it more and jewelry traits are still fairly new to the game. The jewelry has more notoriety, but the end result (speed) has been in the game for years.

Arciris

My Agenda: keeping Swift nerfs, if any, out of PvE. There, I said it.

Waffennacht

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Oh yeah, give magicka equal mobility tools so we have literally no reason to play stamina.

Well, I mean, there's the whole best damage mitigation mechanics

There's really good weapon skills

There's the best HoTs in game

There's 1vX

There's also the snipe bug - and this alone makes stamina worth using

Ragnarock41

Maryal wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

swift is going to be blamed for everything, logic doesn't matter, it's all going to be swift's fault because some people have an agenda, others don't test, people are gullible, and haters are gonna hate.

good at breaking free? blame swift
immovable pots used? blame swift
lag giving the enemy an advantage? blame swift
cc immunity actually working? blame swift
mediocre player skill caused a miss? blame swift
'god build' copied from a youtube video not providing sufficient kills to an under experienced player? blame swift
experienced player having to actually 'work' for a kill (fewer 'insta-kills)? blame swift

And it is possible that Swift has pushed movement speed a little to far. Some might have an agenda arguing that it has not.

Jewlery with a swift trait isn't giving anyone any more advantage than people already could get by creating a build that stacked into speed. The jewelry just makes it easier or less cumbersome to attain.

...which is why Swift is OP, because whereas before you had to invest almost entirely into speed to move this fast, now you can do so by running 3 Swift and using speed pots. There's little tradeoff.

There is a trade off .. and no you didn't have to invest entirely into speed. It typically meant wearing a 5 piece armor set that provided major expedition (there are several that provide major expedition) and choosing an option that gave minor expedition or otherwise stacked with major expedition: using Hurricane(optional), mundus stone Steed (optional), wearing 5 piece set Jailbreaker (optional), Orc passive for speed (optional). It wasn't that difficult and you weren't giving up any more than you give up when you opt for swift as your jewelry trait.

3 swift heavy/light armor players are outrunning medium armor orcs, and here I am reading this ridicilous post.

katorga

OP makes a valid point. Other than DK, no magika based ability gives snare immunity, and Vampire ticks you with huge permanent negatives in exchange for an expensive alternative. If vampirism didn't overwrite your people would complain a lot less. Pale with red eyes, fine, but keep the spots, stripes or other details of the character.

Swift I don't really care about. Anyone can use it. I do think magika classes give up more to use it, but a magika class has to sacrifice too much to run 2h and 3xswift compared to stamina.

mr_wazzabi

I wonder how zos plans to nerf swift if they do.

ak_pvp

No. You don't just get to be immune to mechanics because you want to. Snares are too strong when they work, but going "gib me immunity pls" does nothing but kill other playstyles and gloss over the actual problem.
They should just nerf snares to a fair amount and remove immunities all together.

Maryal

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

swift is going to be blamed for everything, logic doesn't matter, it's all going to be swift's fault because some people have an agenda, others don't test, people are gullible, and haters are gonna hate.

good at breaking free? blame swift
immovable pots used? blame swift
lag giving the enemy an advantage? blame swift
cc immunity actually working? blame swift
mediocre player skill caused a miss? blame swift
'god build' copied from a youtube video not providing sufficient kills to an under experienced player? blame swift
experienced player having to actually 'work' for a kill (fewer 'insta-kills)? blame swift

And it is possible that Swift has pushed movement speed a little to far. Some might have an agenda arguing that it has not.

Jewlery with a swift trait isn't giving anyone any more advantage than people already could get by creating a build that stacked into speed. The jewelry just makes it easier or less cumbersome to attain.

...which is why Swift is OP, because whereas before you had to invest almost entirely into speed to move this fast, now you can do so by running 3 Swift and using speed pots. There's little tradeoff.

There is a trade off .. and no you didn't have to invest entirely into speed. It typically meant wearing a 5 piece armor set that provided major expedition (there are several that provide major expedition) and choosing an option that gave minor expedition or otherwise stacked with major expedition: using Hurricane(optional), mundus stone Steed (optional), wearing 5 piece set Jailbreaker (optional), Orc passive for speed (optional). It wasn't that difficult and you weren't giving up any more than you give up when you opt for swift as your jewelry trait.

3 swift heavy/light armor players are outrunning medium armor orcs, and here I am reading this ridicilous post.

You must have missed the point, which was that speed builds have existed for quite some time and I pointed a few ways to build them. The orc speed passive is a minor form of expedition. The point was to show how easy it has always been to create a build that adds major expedition with a lesser form of expedition, be it minor expedition or a lesser percentage of expedition. The orc speed passive is one of those lesser forms of expedition, so logically that alone would not be as fast a form of major expedition.

idk

Maryal wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

swift is going to be blamed for everything, logic doesn't matter, it's all going to be swift's fault because some people have an agenda, others don't test, people are gullible, and haters are gonna hate.

good at breaking free? blame swift
immovable pots used? blame swift
lag giving the enemy an advantage? blame swift
cc immunity actually working? blame swift
mediocre player skill caused a miss? blame swift
'god build' copied from a youtube video not providing sufficient kills to an under experienced player? blame swift
experienced player having to actually 'work' for a kill (fewer 'insta-kills)? blame swift

And it is possible that Swift has pushed movement speed a little to far. Some might have an agenda arguing that it has not.

Jewlery with a swift trait isn't giving anyone any more advantage than people already could get by creating a build that stacked into speed. The jewelry just makes it easier or less cumbersome to attain.

...which is why Swift is OP, because whereas before you had to invest almost entirely into speed to move this fast, now you can do so by running 3 Swift and using speed pots. There's little tradeoff.

Choosing swift as a jewelry trait is in-and-of-itself giving up the other jewelry traits and often means you 'trade' speed for dps, sustain, or both.

And like anything else in this game, and any MMORPG, things get adjusted over time. Just because a player choses to give up a trait that would give them extra damage or something else in favor of Swift does not mean that trade off is balanced nor does it mean that is has served the game well.

You even stated the swift trait makes it easier for players to build for high speed movement. That may be the exact issue. It may have made it to easy. Especially since some speed buffs do not work in combat.

Basically, you may have explained exactly what the issue is.

Beardimus

Waffennacht wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Oh yeah, give magicka equal mobility tools so we have literally no reason to play stamina.

Well, I mean, there's the whole best damage mitigation mechanics

There's really good weapon skills

There's the best HoTs in game

There's 1vX

There's also the snipe bug - and this alone makes stamina worth using

Waffennacht wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Oh yeah, give magicka equal mobility tools so we have literally no reason to play stamina.

Well, I mean, there's the whole best damage mitigation mechanics

There's really good weapon skills

There's the best HoTs in game

There's 1vX

There's also the snipe bug - and this alone makes stamina worth using

Spot on

JPcrazysquirrel3

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Huh?

You’re asking for combat changes in response to your perceived deficiency in cosmetic appearance?

Really?

Huh?

You're proving once again that you don't actually read and like to respond to every post like a complete jerk?

Really?

JPcrazysquirrel3

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Oh yeah, give magicka equal mobility tools so we have literally no reason to play stamina.

That's not the point here. Magicka users should be able to break free and survive CCs and the like, just as Stamina users. Right now, the main way of doing that is by being a vampire for the stam sustain and Mist Form.
Stamina users have more options in abilities that grant immunity to CCs. Magicka users shouldn't have to become a vampire to be able to break out of snares. Therefore, an ability or two should be introduced, say in the Light Armor skill line, or Psijic skill line, that is accessible to magicka characters without having to back them into a corner and force them to become a vampire.

JPcrazysquirrel3

ak_pvp wrote: »

No. You don't just get to be immune to mechanics because you want to. Snares are too strong when they work, but going "gib me immunity pls" does nothing but kill other playstyles and gloss over the actual problem.
They should just nerf snares to a fair amount and remove immunities all together.

I'm guessing you don't play stam?

IZZEFlameLash

JPcrazysquirrel3 wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

No. You don't just get to be immune to mechanics because you want to. Snares are too strong when they work, but going "gib me immunity pls" does nothing but kill other playstyles and gloss over the actual problem.
They should just nerf snares to a fair amount and remove immunities all together.

I'm guessing you don't play stam?

It is safe to assume almost everyone plays at least one stam at this point.