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If You're Going to Nerf Swift & FM

JPcrazysquirrel3
JPcrazysquirrel3
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If ZOS wants to nerf Swift and Forward Momentum, I have no issue with that. What they need to do, to have some sort of consistency between magicka versus stamina, is have an ability accessible to magicka builds that grants CC and immovability immunity without having to be a vampire. This is even more so desirable, since ZOS has shown no interest in making the vampirism appearance appealing, or creating a skin that we could use that reverts our characters back to their more attractive selves.
"Wood Elves aren't made of wood. Sea Elves aren't made of water. M'aiq still wonders about High Elves."
"It's just not a home until you decorate the torture chamber, am I right?"
"If you want to lose 10lbs of ugly fat, I'd be happy to chop your head off!"
"Degenerates!" --- Todd Howard
"If it's not broke, don't fix it,....unless you're ZO$ and are just doing it for the money!" --- Me
Mayrael wrote: »
Class reps are just like our politicians. They promise mountains made of gold for us, but in the end, whenever they can they try to push their own agenda.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Bio:
I am in a Kevduit video
PS4 (main platform)
--- JP_Dovahkriid

PC (just for PTS since Dragon Bones)
--- JP_Dovahkriid

Playing since console release in 2015

17 characters; mainly play PvE tanks and healer, as well as PvP stamDK, magplar, and stamblade; I also have a handful of DPS toons to have variety. All AD, with one, now PvE, DC toon.

I was on the forums before, but something happened with my account info and I had to create a new account.
  • Tonturri
    Tonturri
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    Huh?

    You’re asking for combat changes in response to your perceived deficiency in cosmetic appearance?

    Really?

    Might I recommend reading the first half of this extremely long and complex OP. It contains some vital information.
  • idk
    idk
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    Tonturri wrote: »
    Huh?

    You’re asking for combat changes in response to your perceived deficiency in cosmetic appearance?

    Really?

    Might I recommend reading the first half of this extremely long and complex OP. It contains some vital information.

    And still a seems a very odd message.
  • Nox_Noir
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    If they do that, I would also appreciate if they could reduce the severity of snares overall, and maybe give roots a short CC immunity for soft-CC like root as well.
    CC prevalence in combat is too severe IMO...
    Edited by Nox_Noir on September 30, 2018 7:57PM
  • idk
    idk
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    Nox_Noir wrote: »
    If they do that, I would also appreciate if they could reduce the severity of snares overall, and maybe give roots a short CC immunity for soft-CC like root as well.
    CC prevalence in combat is too severe IMO...

    Zos did that last update, irrc. They reduced the length of snares.
  • mr_wazzabi
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    Where did the devs mention they were thinking of nerfing swift? Is this just hearsay?
    Bosmer Stamina NB
    Altmer Magicka TEMP
    Dunmer DK both stam/mag (depends what I feel like)
    Altmer Magicka NB
    Breton Magicka Sorc
    Redguard Stam Sorc
    Max CP
  • idk
    idk
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    mr_wazzabi wrote: »
    Where did the devs mention they were thinking of nerfing swift? Is this just hearsay?

    iirc I read it in the notes from this weeks class rep meeting. It is not hearsay.

    Edit:

    Yep, below is straight from what Gina posted.
    ZOS told us they are aware players are moving too fast and are too difficult to target with melee and short ranged abilities. They want to slow us down. Swift Jewelry was something that was specifically mentioned. The Major Expedition buff being too strong was hinted at. The reps agreed that players are too fast and that Swift Jewelry is a primary offender,
    Edited by idk on September 30, 2018 8:41PM
  • Nox_Noir
    Nox_Noir
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    idk wrote: »
    Nox_Noir wrote: »
    If they do that, I would also appreciate if they could reduce the severity of snares overall, and maybe give roots a short CC immunity for soft-CC like root as well.
    CC prevalence in combat is too severe IMO...

    Zos did that last update, irrc. They reduced the length of snares.

    Yea and that didn't really do much of anything. They also need to reduce the effectiveness.
  • lucky_Sage
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    Nox_Noir wrote: »
    If they do that, I would also appreciate if they could reduce the severity of snares overall, and maybe give roots a short CC immunity for soft-CC like root as well.
    CC prevalence in combat is too severe IMO...

    To bad atm roots almost completely usless
    DC PC NA
    Magdk - main
    Stamcro - alt

    AD PS4 NA -retired (PC runs way better to play on console)
    magdk
    magblade
    stamplar
    magden
    magsorc

  • idk
    idk
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    Maryal wrote: »
    swift is going to be blamed for everything, logic doesn't matter, it's all going to be swift's fault because some people have an agenda, others don't test, people are gullible, and haters are gonna hate.

    good at breaking free? blame swift
    immovable pots used? blame swift
    lag giving the enemy an advantage? blame swift
    cc immunity actually working? blame swift
    mediocre player skill caused a miss? blame swift
    'god build' copied from a youtube video not providing sufficient kills to an under experienced player? blame swift
    experienced player having to actually 'work' for a kill (fewer 'insta-kills)? blame swift

    And it is possible that Swift has pushed movement speed a little to far. Some might have an agenda arguing that it has not.
  • Maryal
    Maryal
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    idk wrote: »
    Maryal wrote: »
    swift is going to be blamed for everything, logic doesn't matter, it's all going to be swift's fault because some people have an agenda, others don't test, people are gullible, and haters are gonna hate.

    good at breaking free? blame swift
    immovable pots used? blame swift
    lag giving the enemy an advantage? blame swift
    cc immunity actually working? blame swift
    mediocre player skill caused a miss? blame swift
    'god build' copied from a youtube video not providing sufficient kills to an under experienced player? blame swift
    experienced player having to actually 'work' for a kill (fewer 'insta-kills)? blame swift

    And it is possible that Swift has pushed movement speed a little to far. Some might have an agenda arguing that it has not.

    Jewlery with a swift trait isn't giving anyone any more advantage than people were already able to get by creating a build that stacked into speed. The jewelry just makes that same result easier or less cumbersome to attain.
    Edited by Maryal on September 30, 2018 10:12PM
  • idk
    idk
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    Maryal wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    Maryal wrote: »
    swift is going to be blamed for everything, logic doesn't matter, it's all going to be swift's fault because some people have an agenda, others don't test, people are gullible, and haters are gonna hate.

    good at breaking free? blame swift
    immovable pots used? blame swift
    lag giving the enemy an advantage? blame swift
    cc immunity actually working? blame swift
    mediocre player skill caused a miss? blame swift
    'god build' copied from a youtube video not providing sufficient kills to an under experienced player? blame swift
    experienced player having to actually 'work' for a kill (fewer 'insta-kills)? blame swift

    And it is possible that Swift has pushed movement speed a little to far. Some might have an agenda arguing that it has not.

    Jewlery with a swift trait isn't giving anyone any more advantage than people were already able to get by creating a build that stacked into speed. The jewelry just makes that same result easier or less cumbersome to attain.

    Maye the case, making it easier to hit that max speed. If it does make it that much easier they may not be giving up as much to obtain it.

    Good points and probably why the devs and class reps feel it is worth looking into.
  • Waffennacht
    Waffennacht
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    Maryal wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    Maryal wrote: »
    swift is going to be blamed for everything, logic doesn't matter, it's all going to be swift's fault because some people have an agenda, others don't test, people are gullible, and haters are gonna hate.

    good at breaking free? blame swift
    immovable pots used? blame swift
    lag giving the enemy an advantage? blame swift
    cc immunity actually working? blame swift
    mediocre player skill caused a miss? blame swift
    'god build' copied from a youtube video not providing sufficient kills to an under experienced player? blame swift
    experienced player having to actually 'work' for a kill (fewer 'insta-kills)? blame swift

    And it is possible that Swift has pushed movement speed a little to far. Some might have an agenda arguing that it has not.

    Jewlery with a swift trait isn't giving anyone any more advantage than people already could get by creating a build that stacked into speed. The jewelry just makes it easier or less cumbersome to attain.

    ...which is why Swift is OP, because whereas before you had to invest almost entirely into speed to move this fast, now you can do so by running 3 Swift and using speed pots. There's little tradeoff.

    Build entirely for it? Dunno about that. Without swift my Stam sorc doesn't have a single set dedicated to speed still would hit 80% more movement speed.

    Swift just adds the last 20%

    With expedition and Sprint everyone practically reaches the limit now

    Edit: the only class that Needs swift is mag Templar. Just too, too slow, even if using mist form
    Edited by Waffennacht on September 30, 2018 10:28PM
    Gamer tag: DasPanzerKat NA Xbox One
    1300+ CP
    Battleground PvP'er

    Waffennacht' Builds
  • Ragnarock41
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    Oh yeah, give magicka equal mobility tools so we have literally no reason to play stamina.
    Edited by Ragnarock41 on September 30, 2018 10:33PM
  • Maryal
    Maryal
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    Maryal wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    Maryal wrote: »
    swift is going to be blamed for everything, logic doesn't matter, it's all going to be swift's fault because some people have an agenda, others don't test, people are gullible, and haters are gonna hate.

    good at breaking free? blame swift
    immovable pots used? blame swift
    lag giving the enemy an advantage? blame swift
    cc immunity actually working? blame swift
    mediocre player skill caused a miss? blame swift
    'god build' copied from a youtube video not providing sufficient kills to an under experienced player? blame swift
    experienced player having to actually 'work' for a kill (fewer 'insta-kills)? blame swift

    And it is possible that Swift has pushed movement speed a little to far. Some might have an agenda arguing that it has not.

    Jewlery with a swift trait isn't giving anyone any more advantage than people already could get by creating a build that stacked into speed. The jewelry just makes it easier or less cumbersome to attain.

    ...which is why Swift is OP, because whereas before you had to invest almost entirely into speed to move this fast, now you can do so by running 3 Swift and using speed pots. There's little tradeoff.

    Choosing swift as a jewelry trait is in-and-of-itself giving up the other jewelry traits and often means you 'trade' speed for dps, sustain, or both.

    And, no you didn't have to invest entirely into speed. It typically meant wearing a 5 piece armor set that provided major expedition (there are several that provide major expedition) and choosing an option that gave minor expedition or a form of expedition that otherwise stacked with major expedition: using Hurricane(optional), mundus stone Steed (optional), wearing 5 piece set Jailbreaker (optional), Orc passive for speed (optional). 'Building for speed' the old fashion way and building for speed via swift jewlery both require a trade off. Using swift jewelry is just more visible because people talk about it more and jewelry traits are still fairly new to the game. The jewelry has more notoriety, but the end result (speed) has been in the game for years.


    Edited by Maryal on September 30, 2018 10:40PM
  • Arciris
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    My Agenda: keeping Swift nerfs, if any, out of PvE. There, I said it.
  • Waffennacht
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    Oh yeah, give magicka equal mobility tools so we have literally no reason to play stamina.

    Well, I mean, there's the whole best damage mitigation mechanics

    There's really good weapon skills

    There's the best HoTs in game

    There's 1vX

    There's also the snipe bug - and this alone makes stamina worth using
    Gamer tag: DasPanzerKat NA Xbox One
    1300+ CP
    Battleground PvP'er

    Waffennacht' Builds
  • Ragnarock41
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    Maryal wrote: »
    Maryal wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    Maryal wrote: »
    swift is going to be blamed for everything, logic doesn't matter, it's all going to be swift's fault because some people have an agenda, others don't test, people are gullible, and haters are gonna hate.

    good at breaking free? blame swift
    immovable pots used? blame swift
    lag giving the enemy an advantage? blame swift
    cc immunity actually working? blame swift
    mediocre player skill caused a miss? blame swift
    'god build' copied from a youtube video not providing sufficient kills to an under experienced player? blame swift
    experienced player having to actually 'work' for a kill (fewer 'insta-kills)? blame swift

    And it is possible that Swift has pushed movement speed a little to far. Some might have an agenda arguing that it has not.

    Jewlery with a swift trait isn't giving anyone any more advantage than people already could get by creating a build that stacked into speed. The jewelry just makes it easier or less cumbersome to attain.

    ...which is why Swift is OP, because whereas before you had to invest almost entirely into speed to move this fast, now you can do so by running 3 Swift and using speed pots. There's little tradeoff.

    There is a trade off .. and no you didn't have to invest entirely into speed. It typically meant wearing a 5 piece armor set that provided major expedition (there are several that provide major expedition) and choosing an option that gave minor expedition or otherwise stacked with major expedition: using Hurricane(optional), mundus stone Steed (optional), wearing 5 piece set Jailbreaker (optional), Orc passive for speed (optional). It wasn't that difficult and you weren't giving up any more than you give up when you opt for swift as your jewelry trait.


    3 swift heavy/light armor players are outrunning medium armor orcs, and here I am reading this ridicilous post.
    Edited by Ragnarock41 on September 30, 2018 10:37PM
  • katorga
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    OP makes a valid point. Other than DK, no magika based ability gives snare immunity, and Vampire ticks you with huge permanent negatives in exchange for an expensive alternative. If vampirism didn't overwrite your people would complain a lot less. Pale with red eyes, fine, but keep the spots, stripes or other details of the character.

    Swift I don't really care about. Anyone can use it. I do think magika classes give up more to use it, but a magika class has to sacrifice too much to run 2h and 3xswift compared to stamina.
  • mr_wazzabi
    mr_wazzabi
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    I wonder how zos plans to nerf swift if they do.
    Bosmer Stamina NB
    Altmer Magicka TEMP
    Dunmer DK both stam/mag (depends what I feel like)
    Altmer Magicka NB
    Breton Magicka Sorc
    Redguard Stam Sorc
    Max CP
  • ak_pvp
    ak_pvp
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    No. You don't just get to be immune to mechanics because you want to. Snares are too strong when they work, but going "gib me immunity pls" does nothing but kill other playstyles and gloss over the actual problem.
    They should just nerf snares to a fair amount and remove immunities all together.
    Edited by ak_pvp on October 1, 2018 12:59AM
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • Maryal
    Maryal
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    Maryal wrote: »
    Maryal wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    Maryal wrote: »
    swift is going to be blamed for everything, logic doesn't matter, it's all going to be swift's fault because some people have an agenda, others don't test, people are gullible, and haters are gonna hate.

    good at breaking free? blame swift
    immovable pots used? blame swift
    lag giving the enemy an advantage? blame swift
    cc immunity actually working? blame swift
    mediocre player skill caused a miss? blame swift
    'god build' copied from a youtube video not providing sufficient kills to an under experienced player? blame swift
    experienced player having to actually 'work' for a kill (fewer 'insta-kills)? blame swift

    And it is possible that Swift has pushed movement speed a little to far. Some might have an agenda arguing that it has not.

    Jewlery with a swift trait isn't giving anyone any more advantage than people already could get by creating a build that stacked into speed. The jewelry just makes it easier or less cumbersome to attain.

    ...which is why Swift is OP, because whereas before you had to invest almost entirely into speed to move this fast, now you can do so by running 3 Swift and using speed pots. There's little tradeoff.

    There is a trade off .. and no you didn't have to invest entirely into speed. It typically meant wearing a 5 piece armor set that provided major expedition (there are several that provide major expedition) and choosing an option that gave minor expedition or otherwise stacked with major expedition: using Hurricane(optional), mundus stone Steed (optional), wearing 5 piece set Jailbreaker (optional), Orc passive for speed (optional). It wasn't that difficult and you weren't giving up any more than you give up when you opt for swift as your jewelry trait.


    3 swift heavy/light armor players are outrunning medium armor orcs, and here I am reading this ridicilous post.

    You must have missed the point, which was that speed builds have existed for quite some time and I pointed a few ways to build them. The orc speed passive is a minor form of expedition. The point was to show how easy it has always been to create a build that adds major expedition with a lesser form of expedition, be it minor expedition or a lesser percentage of expedition. The orc speed passive is one of those lesser forms of expedition, so logically that alone would not be as fast a form of major expedition.

    Edited by Maryal on October 1, 2018 1:11AM
  • idk
    idk
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    Maryal wrote: »
    Maryal wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    Maryal wrote: »
    swift is going to be blamed for everything, logic doesn't matter, it's all going to be swift's fault because some people have an agenda, others don't test, people are gullible, and haters are gonna hate.

    good at breaking free? blame swift
    immovable pots used? blame swift
    lag giving the enemy an advantage? blame swift
    cc immunity actually working? blame swift
    mediocre player skill caused a miss? blame swift
    'god build' copied from a youtube video not providing sufficient kills to an under experienced player? blame swift
    experienced player having to actually 'work' for a kill (fewer 'insta-kills)? blame swift

    And it is possible that Swift has pushed movement speed a little to far. Some might have an agenda arguing that it has not.

    Jewlery with a swift trait isn't giving anyone any more advantage than people already could get by creating a build that stacked into speed. The jewelry just makes it easier or less cumbersome to attain.

    ...which is why Swift is OP, because whereas before you had to invest almost entirely into speed to move this fast, now you can do so by running 3 Swift and using speed pots. There's little tradeoff.

    Choosing swift as a jewelry trait is in-and-of-itself giving up the other jewelry traits and often means you 'trade' speed for dps, sustain, or both.

    And like anything else in this game, and any MMORPG, things get adjusted over time. Just because a player choses to give up a trait that would give them extra damage or something else in favor of Swift does not mean that trade off is balanced nor does it mean that is has served the game well.

    You even stated the swift trait makes it easier for players to build for high speed movement. That may be the exact issue. It may have made it to easy. Especially since some speed buffs do not work in combat.

    Basically, you may have explained exactly what the issue is.
  • Beardimus
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    Oh yeah, give magicka equal mobility tools so we have literally no reason to play stamina.

    Well, I mean, there's the whole best damage mitigation mechanics

    There's really good weapon skills

    There's the best HoTs in game

    There's 1vX

    There's also the snipe bug - and this alone makes stamina worth using
    Oh yeah, give magicka equal mobility tools so we have literally no reason to play stamina.

    Well, I mean, there's the whole best damage mitigation mechanics

    There's really good weapon skills

    There's the best HoTs in game

    There's 1vX

    There's also the snipe bug - and this alone makes stamina worth using

    Spot on
    Xbox One | EU | EP
    Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
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    Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
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  • JPcrazysquirrel3
    JPcrazysquirrel3
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    Huh?

    You’re asking for combat changes in response to your perceived deficiency in cosmetic appearance?

    Really?

    Huh?

    You're proving once again that you don't actually read and like to respond to every post like a complete jerk?

    Really?
    "Wood Elves aren't made of wood. Sea Elves aren't made of water. M'aiq still wonders about High Elves."
    "It's just not a home until you decorate the torture chamber, am I right?"
    "If you want to lose 10lbs of ugly fat, I'd be happy to chop your head off!"
    "Degenerates!" --- Todd Howard
    "If it's not broke, don't fix it,....unless you're ZO$ and are just doing it for the money!" --- Me
    Mayrael wrote: »
    Class reps are just like our politicians. They promise mountains made of gold for us, but in the end, whenever they can they try to push their own agenda.

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Bio:
    I am in a Kevduit video
    PS4 (main platform)
    --- JP_Dovahkriid

    PC (just for PTS since Dragon Bones)
    --- JP_Dovahkriid

    Playing since console release in 2015

    17 characters; mainly play PvE tanks and healer, as well as PvP stamDK, magplar, and stamblade; I also have a handful of DPS toons to have variety. All AD, with one, now PvE, DC toon.

    I was on the forums before, but something happened with my account info and I had to create a new account.
  • JPcrazysquirrel3
    JPcrazysquirrel3
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    Oh yeah, give magicka equal mobility tools so we have literally no reason to play stamina.

    That's not the point here. Magicka users should be able to break free and survive CCs and the like, just as Stamina users. Right now, the main way of doing that is by being a vampire for the stam sustain and Mist Form.
    Stamina users have more options in abilities that grant immunity to CCs. Magicka users shouldn't have to become a vampire to be able to break out of snares. Therefore, an ability or two should be introduced, say in the Light Armor skill line, or Psijic skill line, that is accessible to magicka characters without having to back them into a corner and force them to become a vampire.
    "Wood Elves aren't made of wood. Sea Elves aren't made of water. M'aiq still wonders about High Elves."
    "It's just not a home until you decorate the torture chamber, am I right?"
    "If you want to lose 10lbs of ugly fat, I'd be happy to chop your head off!"
    "Degenerates!" --- Todd Howard
    "If it's not broke, don't fix it,....unless you're ZO$ and are just doing it for the money!" --- Me
    Mayrael wrote: »
    Class reps are just like our politicians. They promise mountains made of gold for us, but in the end, whenever they can they try to push their own agenda.

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Bio:
    I am in a Kevduit video
    PS4 (main platform)
    --- JP_Dovahkriid

    PC (just for PTS since Dragon Bones)
    --- JP_Dovahkriid

    Playing since console release in 2015

    17 characters; mainly play PvE tanks and healer, as well as PvP stamDK, magplar, and stamblade; I also have a handful of DPS toons to have variety. All AD, with one, now PvE, DC toon.

    I was on the forums before, but something happened with my account info and I had to create a new account.
  • JPcrazysquirrel3
    JPcrazysquirrel3
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    ak_pvp wrote: »
    No. You don't just get to be immune to mechanics because you want to. Snares are too strong when they work, but going "gib me immunity pls" does nothing but kill other playstyles and gloss over the actual problem.
    They should just nerf snares to a fair amount and remove immunities all together.

    I'm guessing you don't play stam?
    "Wood Elves aren't made of wood. Sea Elves aren't made of water. M'aiq still wonders about High Elves."
    "It's just not a home until you decorate the torture chamber, am I right?"
    "If you want to lose 10lbs of ugly fat, I'd be happy to chop your head off!"
    "Degenerates!" --- Todd Howard
    "If it's not broke, don't fix it,....unless you're ZO$ and are just doing it for the money!" --- Me
    Mayrael wrote: »
    Class reps are just like our politicians. They promise mountains made of gold for us, but in the end, whenever they can they try to push their own agenda.

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Bio:
    I am in a Kevduit video
    PS4 (main platform)
    --- JP_Dovahkriid

    PC (just for PTS since Dragon Bones)
    --- JP_Dovahkriid

    Playing since console release in 2015

    17 characters; mainly play PvE tanks and healer, as well as PvP stamDK, magplar, and stamblade; I also have a handful of DPS toons to have variety. All AD, with one, now PvE, DC toon.

    I was on the forums before, but something happened with my account info and I had to create a new account.
  • IZZEFlameLash
    IZZEFlameLash
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    ak_pvp wrote: »
    No. You don't just get to be immune to mechanics because you want to. Snares are too strong when they work, but going "gib me immunity pls" does nothing but kill other playstyles and gloss over the actual problem.
    They should just nerf snares to a fair amount and remove immunities all together.

    I'm guessing you don't play stam?

    It is safe to assume almost everyone plays at least one stam at this point.
    Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel
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