Magblade healing ward replacement?

ChefZero

Nerf or not, don't understand why you're thinking about dropping healing ward with the rise of the new restro..!?

kaithuzar

ChefZero wrote: »

Nerf or not, don't understand why you're thinking about dropping healing ward with the rise of the new restro..!?

Because if they nerf it my build will have 0 real healing options outside of tripots.

My bar setups:
Sap, assassins will, forward momentum, concealed, mage light - soul harvest

Cloak(the real one), psijic skill that gives move speed & crit dmg increase, fear, healing ward(soon to be replaced), leeching strikes(stam sustain + siphoning ability for max mag) - either psijic that gives 8% dmg mit or resto ult

hesobad

Don't play magblade. The only thing we will have in Nerfmire is cloak and hots with the tiny Swallow soul heal. If you run a stamina nb or really any other stamina class you'll be much more successful in pvp. I'm already converted my sorc and dk to stamina and really enjoying that. Vigor heals for a TON!!! Forward momentum will be WAY better than shields in Nerfmire and the fact that you can sprint / dodge roll is a deal breaker in pvp

EdTerra

ChefZero wrote: »

Nerf or not, don't understand why you're thinking about dropping healing ward with the rise of the new restro..!?

even if I keep my healing ward in my bar I would not use this really bad staff

major vitality for 3s will not even be enough against major defile 80% uptime + poison minor defile ~10% uptime
and if you run only healing ward you will not even get the major vitality bonus to you'r heal after the shield
also adding healing receive will not help against big crit damage burst or simply many sources of damage (zerged)

since our resistance will affect shields I think that pariah should be the BiS set for only healing ward users
low health = stronger shield + pariah stronger resist + major ward/resolve (shadow passive) + vampire undeath passive, that's may be even stronger than the actual healing ward

HowlKimchi

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

imo magblade isn't as affected as magsorcs with the removal of the initial heal. We have tons of self-heals from our attacks.

Which becomes irrelevant when you’re in execute range. You get a heal plus a shield, everyone is affected by it.

Now most people will need to run a hot or it’s gg when they get bursted into execute range without a shield up.

I dont think hots are irrelevant at execute range if you have the shield from healing ward absorbing the impact, while my hots take me out of execute range.

Don't get me wrong I dont like the change at all. I just think sorcs are affected much worse than us magblades with the change.

You said hots from your attacks. So how are those hots going to save you if you get hit with a burst combo and you’re in the defense.

Making my point, now a hot outside of attacking is mandatory. Plus, you can’t really compare heavy and light in execute range.

funnel health should always be up, even while on the defensive, no? It lasts 10 seconds. It's also better at getting you outside execute range if you're light armor. It should hit harded (hence heal more) and you have a lower hp than the typical heavy armor user. so each tick is a bigger percentage of your total health pool.

Look im not arguing here. I'm just responding to the OP that while it IS a nerf, I dont think it HAS to be replaced on a magblade as it will still perform well as an o *** skill.

You play no cp? The initial heal is a big loss vs anyone that knows how to apply pressure, even more so with the new changes to shields. Let a stamplar get on you next patch, it’s over.

This patch you can run healing ward swallow/funnel and siphoning attacks and could manage. Next patch that will not be the case. So like I said it’ll affect magblades too, remember not everyone runs a plethora of hots. On top of that solo magblades will take a hit from this.

I guess so. But then again I'm a heavy magblade so it wont affect me that much.

Definitely, magblades are affected too I'm not denying that. My opinion is, MAYBE we don't have to replace the healing ward like what the OP is asking. I think we could manage with just a minor change in our builds and/or playstyle.

Kadoin

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

There are some subtly to Healing Ward that some here apparently aren't aware of that are contributing factors to it being nerfed...

I won't say out loud; at least until the nerf is finalized, but there is more to it than some of you know...

Sorry but this is a silly statement. Democracy Dies in Darkness LOL and all that. Just state what this wonderful nuance is so it can be examined, analysed and debated.

Oh, and I think I am going to go back to destruction staff on the back bar and just die more.

For some people it was healing quite a bit. I think on my templar at 1/2 health the initial heal was over 6K. In fact, its strong enough for me to spam it and have my health rise even with 5x Sloads (before it got nerfed)... I can't imagine ZOS would let that kind of thing happen with Blackrose restoration staff. It's definitely powerful on live and I'm not surprised it got somewhat nerfed. If it didn't get nerfed then the shield changes would make it too powerful, AND it would just be replacing annulment (healing ward is better than annulment/sorc wards already on live if you ask me).

thankyourat

HaruKamui wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

imo magblade isn't as affected as magsorcs with the removal of the initial heal. We have tons of self-heals from our attacks.

Which becomes irrelevant when you’re in execute range. You get a heal plus a shield, everyone is affected by it.

Now most people will need to run a hot or it’s gg when they get bursted into execute range without a shield up.

I dont think hots are irrelevant at execute range if you have the shield from healing ward absorbing the impact, while my hots take me out of execute range.

Don't get me wrong I dont like the change at all. I just think sorcs are affected much worse than us magblades with the change.

You said hots from your attacks. So how are those hots going to save you if you get hit with a burst combo and you’re in the defense.

Making my point, now a hot outside of attacking is mandatory. Plus, you can’t really compare heavy and light in execute range.

funnel health should always be up, even while on the defensive, no? It lasts 10 seconds. It's also better at getting you outside execute range if you're light armor. It should hit harded (hence heal more) and you have a lower hp than the typical heavy armor user. so each tick is a bigger percentage of your total health pool.

Look im not arguing here. I'm just responding to the OP that while it IS a nerf, I dont think it HAS to be replaced on a magblade as it will still perform well as an o *** skill.

You play no cp? The initial heal is a big loss vs anyone that knows how to apply pressure, even more so with the new changes to shields. Let a stamplar get on you next patch, it’s over.

This patch you can run healing ward swallow/funnel and siphoning attacks and could manage. Next patch that will not be the case. So like I said it’ll affect magblades too, remember not everyone runs a plethora of hots. On top of that solo magblades will take a hit from this.

I guess so. But then again I'm a heavy magblade so it wont affect me that much.

Definitely, magblades are affected too I'm not denying that. My opinion is, MAYBE we don't have to replace the healing ward like what the OP is asking. I think we could manage with just a minor change in our builds and/or playstyle.

I play heavy magblade as well and this will be a pretty bad for open world PvP. It will be easy enough to play around the change 1v1 against certain players but you will definitely feel the change when fighting players equal to your skill level. Overall it's a bad change. And will just discourage Magicka players from playing solo PvP. It was only just recently you begin to see Magicka builds attempting to solo (sorc excluded) now they will all pretty much either switch to Stam or just play in ball groups.

As for light armor destro magblade they are done. The class is too slow to not play with a huge damage shield. Melee might still be playable because they will have the speed to get in and out of fights but melee magblades has a bunch of problems currently on live as is. These are like dark brotherhood level changes when magblade was bottom of the barrel

ChefZero

EdTerra wrote: »

major vitality for 3s will not even be enough against major defile 80% uptime + poison minor defile ~10% uptime

This argument is not logical, because it would mean that healing in general would not make sense cause defile is strong/uptime is so long. Btw healing was always more potent than defile.

EdTerra wrote: »

and if you run only healing ward you will not even get the major vitality bonus to you'r heal after the shield
also adding healing receive will not help against big crit damage burst or simply many sources of damage (zerged)

Never talked about HW only. Especially magNB has access to tons of HoTs (funnel, path, mutagen, entropy, etc..) which means a HW > dodge roll > cloak gives your HoTs time to heal.
Against high damage dodge roll and block is superior. Besides that you have with murkmire access to major protection AND the new evasion.

I can only suggest that you could play your NB without cloak for a few weeks. Especially in BGs. I did it few weeks for summerset release and it helped me a lot.

EdTerra

ChefZero wrote: »

Never talked about HW only. Especially magNB has access to tons of HoTs (funnel, path, mutagen, entropy, etc..) which means a HW > dodge roll > cloak gives your HoTs time to heal.

First post :

I’ve been use to running with that as my only method of healing for so long that I hate the idea of having to run a shield & a heal taking up 2 bar slots instead of 1.
Kind of feel like if you wanna use the new resto staff you need to use hots or the non-cloak cloak, which for me feels like I would be changing a lot of the build.

That's why I was talking about HW only, and for that, blackrose resto staff is a bad choice if the OP still want to use his actual playstyle he should consider that our resistances will affect shields and it may be even better than before

ChefZero wrote: »

Against high damage dodge roll and block is superior. Besides that you have with murkmire access to major protection AND the new evasion.

pirate skeleton + blackrose resto, maybe in this way siphonning attacks+entropy could be enougth to deal with the critable HW
but for me the new evasion is only a way to deny a crit DB on 1v1, wich is already a great thing but that's all, I'm solo 99% of the time so if I meet the zerg, even with aoe damage reduction I'm dead if no shadow and for 1vX I just can't see how effective it could be

kaithuzar

If malubeth proc’d more reliably, I could see myself running black rose with healing ward.
I could slot the healing morph of refreshing path but players are so tanky that with fully buffed 15k pen & 3 sp dmg I still hit like a wet noodle as most targets are running s&b or have heal bots or both.
(Sure I can wreck noobs all day, but I want to fight good players)
It’s for this reason I would hate to lose the +10% extra crit dmg from the psijic skill which is the only thing I could really swap out for refreshing path (as they both give smalll movement speed increase).

Right now I’m saying just take the resource hit, remove the domi & using 1 piece either chudan/pirate/lord warden + blessing of restoration & having (fully buffed) over cap resistances + burst heal.

I really want to drop vamp but haven’t figured out a way to balance resist + dmg + healing + sustain + speed...

Koensol

If you get a decent health pool (25k+) and some healing done/taken bonusses, dark cloak will work great in conjunction with heal ward. Especially with the new blackrose resto. I have had dark cloak crit for nearly 5k per tick in no cp when I had major vitality and major mending up. My health was like 28k. You kinda have to build for it, but I find dark cloak to be amazing. Almost a crutch even.

ChefZero

Koensol wrote: »

If you get a decent health pool (25k+) and some healing done/taken bonusses, dark cloak will work great in conjunction with heal ward. Especially with the new blackrose resto. I have had dark cloak crit for nearly 5k per tick in no cp when I had major vitality and major mending up. My health was like 28k. You kinda have to build for it, but I find dark cloak to be amazing. Almost a crutch even.

Yes dark cloak is underrated. Healing ward > dark cloak > dodge roll while some HoTs are ticking is always a HP reset.

Shadow disguise on the other hand is a two-sided sword. You can dodge endless projectiles but it's less likely the more enemies you fight to go in stealth successfully. The point is you need SD to increase your damage especially on a magNB or your burst will be to low (besides a caluurions or mechanical acuity build).

lucky_dutch

ChefZero wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

If you get a decent health pool (25k+) and some healing done/taken bonusses, dark cloak will work great in conjunction with heal ward. Especially with the new blackrose resto. I have had dark cloak crit for nearly 5k per tick in no cp when I had major vitality and major mending up. My health was like 28k. You kinda have to build for it, but I find dark cloak to be amazing. Almost a crutch even.

Yes dark cloak is underrated. Healing ward > dark cloak > dodge roll while some HoTs are ticking is always a HP reset.

Shadow disguise on the other hand is a two-sided sword. You can dodge endless projectiles but it's less likely the more enemies you fight to go in stealth successfully. The point is you need SD to increase your damage especially on a magNB or your burst will be to low (besides a caluurions or mechanical acuity build).

This is the issue. Shadowy Disguise is essential to being able to apply pressure.

There isn't really a solution to this nerf at present. If a stam class snares and pressures you in murkmire, you're probably going to die unless you just win the DPS race with a filthy bow crit.

Now if we could place shade from distance...

brandonv516

lucky_dutch wrote: »

ChefZero wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

If you get a decent health pool (25k+) and some healing done/taken bonusses, dark cloak will work great in conjunction with heal ward. Especially with the new blackrose resto. I have had dark cloak crit for nearly 5k per tick in no cp when I had major vitality and major mending up. My health was like 28k. You kinda have to build for it, but I find dark cloak to be amazing. Almost a crutch even.

Yes dark cloak is underrated. Healing ward > dark cloak > dodge roll while some HoTs are ticking is always a HP reset.

Shadow disguise on the other hand is a two-sided sword. You can dodge endless projectiles but it's less likely the more enemies you fight to go in stealth successfully. The point is you need SD to increase your damage especially on a magNB or your burst will be to low (besides a caluurions or mechanical acuity build).

This is the issue. Shadowy Disguise is essential to being able to apply pressure.

There isn't really a solution to this nerf at present. If a stam class snares and pressures you in murkmire, you're probably going to die unless you just win the DPS race with a filthy bow crit.

Now if we could place shade from distance...

That would be really cool. Picture this:

You're in the thick of the fight and you see an opening 10 meters away to your left. You look left and cast Shade at that location. You teleport there, cloak, heal, and move on!

Dude, you got to suggest this idea! Edit: Just realized...that's Streak.

lucky_dutch

brandonv516 wrote: »

lucky_dutch wrote: »

ChefZero wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

If you get a decent health pool (25k+) and some healing done/taken bonusses, dark cloak will work great in conjunction with heal ward. Especially with the new blackrose resto. I have had dark cloak crit for nearly 5k per tick in no cp when I had major vitality and major mending up. My health was like 28k. You kinda have to build for it, but I find dark cloak to be amazing. Almost a crutch even.

Yes dark cloak is underrated. Healing ward > dark cloak > dodge roll while some HoTs are ticking is always a HP reset.

Shadow disguise on the other hand is a two-sided sword. You can dodge endless projectiles but it's less likely the more enemies you fight to go in stealth successfully. The point is you need SD to increase your damage especially on a magNB or your burst will be to low (besides a caluurions or mechanical acuity build).

This is the issue. Shadowy Disguise is essential to being able to apply pressure.

There isn't really a solution to this nerf at present. If a stam class snares and pressures you in murkmire, you're probably going to die unless you just win the DPS race with a filthy bow crit.

Now if we could place shade from distance...

That would be really cool. Picture this:

You're in the thick of the fight and you see an opening 10 meters away to your left. You look left and cast Shade at that location. You teleport there, cloak, heal, and move on!

Dude, you got to suggest this idea! Edit: Just realized...that's Streak.

It's not streak, for one thing it's two clicks to get you to move. I wouldn't mind them giving it a short CD after placement before you can jump to it in order for it not to become an instant escape like streak either.

I just want to be able to place it at a good strategic position without actually having to slowly waddle over to where I want to place it before every single engagement. It really makes the skill a chore to use.

exeeter702

lucky_dutch wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

lucky_dutch wrote: »

ChefZero wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

If you get a decent health pool (25k+) and some healing done/taken bonusses, dark cloak will work great in conjunction with heal ward. Especially with the new blackrose resto. I have had dark cloak crit for nearly 5k per tick in no cp when I had major vitality and major mending up. My health was like 28k. You kinda have to build for it, but I find dark cloak to be amazing. Almost a crutch even.

Yes dark cloak is underrated. Healing ward > dark cloak > dodge roll while some HoTs are ticking is always a HP reset.

Shadow disguise on the other hand is a two-sided sword. You can dodge endless projectiles but it's less likely the more enemies you fight to go in stealth successfully. The point is you need SD to increase your damage especially on a magNB or your burst will be to low (besides a caluurions or mechanical acuity build).

This is the issue. Shadowy Disguise is essential to being able to apply pressure.

There isn't really a solution to this nerf at present. If a stam class snares and pressures you in murkmire, you're probably going to die unless you just win the DPS race with a filthy bow crit.

Now if we could place shade from distance...

That would be really cool. Picture this:

You're in the thick of the fight and you see an opening 10 meters away to your left. You look left and cast Shade at that location. You teleport there, cloak, heal, and move on!

Dude, you got to suggest this idea! Edit: Just realized...that's Streak.

It's not streak, for one thing it's two clicks to get you to move. I wouldn't mind them giving it a short CD after placement before you can jump to it in order for it not to become an instant escape like streak either.

I just want to be able to place it at a good strategic position without actually having to slowly waddle over to where I want to place it before every single engagement. It really makes the skill a chore to use.

That would be very problematic. The point to image is that you consciously have to make the distance between yourself and the image to gain the benefit. If someone checks you on that you disadvantaged. If we were able to place the image at a distance, we could use 2 GCDs to make a complete fool of any melee on us. The ONLY way this would be balanced is if it suffered from a stacking cost.

exeeter702

Healing ward nerf is whatever, the initial heal was paltry, and if your playong a high damage aggressive magblade, you likely have cloak and or image to make the actual heal on HW go off safely.

If you are playing a brawler esque magblade or a healblade, you used HW as a buffer so your potent hots can do work or to buy time for resto ult etc. If you are caught out without hots and are back foot HW spamming, then that is a user error.

The nerf is inconsequential.

FrancisCrawford

Please pardon the naive question, but I've never played vamp -- how does it conflict with Troll King?

brandonv516

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Please pardon the naive question, but I've never played vamp -- how does it conflict with Troll King?

Vampire defiles Health Recovery to essentially nothing and Troll King buffs it, so you are left with a final number that is nothing to be excited about.

Metemsycosis

exeeter702 wrote: »

Healing ward nerf is whatever, the initial heal was paltry, and if your playong a high damage aggressive magblade, you likely have cloak and or image to make the actual heal on HW go off safely.

If you are playing a brawler esque magblade or a healblade, you used HW as a buffer so your potent hots can do work or to buy time for resto ult etc. If you are caught out without hots and are back foot HW spamming, then that is a user error.

The nerf is inconsequential.

I'm thinking this too.