Magblade healing ward replacement?

kaithuzar

Curious to know what everyone is planning with the healing ward nerf.

I’ve tried mutagen, blessing of restoration, & malubeth (scourge harvester) but nothing seems that great.

I’ve been use to running with that as my only method of healing for so long that I hate the idea of having to run a shield & a heal taking up 2 bar slots instead of 1.

Kind of feel like if you wanna use the new resto staff you need to use hots or the non-cloak cloak, which for me feels like I would be changing a lot of the build.

Malubeth is great when it proc’s but the beam is such a short distance & it doesn’t always proc.

Troll king would be great if I wasn’t vamp so thats out of the question as it’s a ton of sustain I would be missing if I dropped vamp.

Thoughts?

zammo

Yeah, i'm stuck with this one. It's a very unique skill.

Healing Ward is the only shield I run on light armour melee magblade. The strengthening of the shield at low health means it has to be a reactive skill. I get hit hard, that initial heal is often just enough to drag me out of execute range, and the shield enables me to turtle for a couple of seconds and respond. Think i'm gonna be toast far more often.

I don't see non-cloak cloak being an option for me, as I need crit cloak with concealed weapon on front bar.

The devs reasoning that it shouldn't provide such a good heal made me laugh; it's in the Restoration (Healing) Staff skill line lol.

I can't see this one being reverted, there's no way they would relent again after backing down on the cast time of the sorc and light armour shield.

fred4

This is tough. I've never played with Healing Ward alone, but have played destro / 2H with Dampen, Forward Momentum and Troll King. Forward Momentum reliably activates Troll King in the absence of other heals. I was quite happy with that combination when having Temporal Guard slotted for the Minor Protection and additional Psijic block shield. Due to 3x Swift and other compromises my build only has 34K magicka in CP, yet this worked. That said, playing resto / 2H and adding Healing Ward on top is a marked improvement when being focused. I have not played with Healing Ward alone.

I can only think to pay attention to ongoing healing sources. I feel Siphoning Strikes is important, and it's important to use that morph, not Leeching, because only Siphoning Strikes uses your spell crit parameters. Swallow Soul will still be a no brainer for many builds. Citrus Fillet adds a bit more healing. I've used Refreshing Path in the past, and found it good, but I don't like it much in a high speed cloaking build and am unsure about the coming changes.

HowlKimchi

Doesn't healing ward still heal when it expires?

fred4

Vampire sustain is +10%, right? I have not played vamp, so only you can judge how significant that is, but perhaps it's time to drop it? For what it's worth, I run a Troll King / Caluurion / Shacklebreaker setup. I tried Riposte, but at the end of the day I valued the stamina sustain and higher damage from Shacklebreaker more, especially in no CP.

Since nightblades tend to use cloak on approach, while the game engine still considers them out of combat, I keep repeating the following advice, which you may have heard me say before. Get your mag sustain from the Atro mundus and from drinks, such as Ghastly Eye Bowl, Witchmother's Potent Brew, or Clockwork Citrus Fillet, and from Siphoning Attacks. Those magicka sources work in and out of combat, while magicka recovery bonuses on gear only work in combat. Getting magicka sustain from the right sources improves your sustain while you are out of combat, cloaking, pre-buffing, or standing on a resource and recovering your magicka. As a rule of thumb those drinks lead you to builds with all prismatic gear enchants and often Shacklebreaker to get the stamina pool up.

fred4

HaruKamui wrote: »

Doesn't healing ward still heal when it expires?

Yes, but like many have said, the initial heal often pulls them out of execute range. Furthermore not having that heal will make Healing Ward even more disastrous against Shield Breaker, although the shortened Piercing Mark duration offsets that.

zammo

Refreshing path is good, and as far as healing goes, will get a bit better after the patch. What it definitely is not though, is a good burst heal.

I try to have forward momentum and siphoning strikes running all the time. When I go defensive, it goes fear -> healing ward -> refreshing path. fear gets them off me (I so wish it still affected three enemies), healing ward provides that immediate (small) burst heal to get me out of trouble, then refreshing path goes about building that health back up while adding a bit of mobility.

Siphoning Strikes and Swallow Soul will only help if you can get back on the offensive. Without Healing Wards initial heal, that will be more difficult to do.

HowlKimchi

Hmm, as for me, I've never relied on healing ward for it's initial heal. I am a non-vamp altmer heavy armor magblade with cloak though. I run troll king, heavy shackle, war maiden. I sometimes swap troll king with malubeth/blood spawn/grothdar/engine guardian. I sustain fine.

I dont slot crippling grasp and run refreshing path instead. easier access to expedition and is also a hot.

so my heals are: funnel health, refreshing path, troll king, and healing ward for the oh *** moments.

I'd say the biggest weakness of this build is not having snare removal. I offset it with shadow image and a dodge roll here and there with some well-fitted gear.

HowlKimchi

imo magblade isn't as affected as magsorcs with the removal of the initial heal. We have tons of self-heals from our attacks.

CatchMeTrolling

HaruKamui wrote: »

imo magblade isn't as affected as magsorcs with the removal of the initial heal. We have tons of self-heals from our attacks.

Which becomes irrelevant when you’re in execute range. You get a heal plus a shield, everyone is affected by it.

Now most people will need to run a hot or it’s gg when they get bursted into execute range without a shield up.

HowlKimchi

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

imo magblade isn't as affected as magsorcs with the removal of the initial heal. We have tons of self-heals from our attacks.

Which becomes irrelevant when you’re in execute range. You get a heal plus a shield, everyone is affected by it.

Now most people will need to run a hot or it’s gg when they get bursted into execute range without a shield up.

I dont think hots are irrelevant at execute range if you have the shield from healing ward absorbing the impact, while my hots take me out of execute range.

Don't get me wrong I dont like the change at all. I just think sorcs are affected much worse than us magblades with the change.

zammo

HaruKamui wrote: »

Doesn't healing ward still heal when it expires?

It does, but if there's nothing left of that shield at the end of it's 6 second duration due to being beaten on, then no heal. Raises a good point though. The Devs cited...

"The goal of Steadfast Ward and morphs is to protect low health targets while other sources of healing are restoring their health. The Healing Ward morph was too powerful because it was providing both a strong shield and healing to the target."

...they took the guaranteed "small" heal rather than pinching a bit from the potential "big" heal. I don't agree with that quote anyway. Ward Ally is designed with that goal in mind, if the same were true of healing ward, it would never have had a healing element. The skill is in the restoration staff tree ffs.

At this point, may as well just run ward ally to guarantee you the bubble, assuming it's gonna get beaten away anyway.

HaruKamui wrote: »

imo magblade isn't as affected as magsorcs with the removal of the initial heal. We have tons of self-heals from our attacks.

But nothing you could call a burst heal. Even heal cloak is 3s.

fred4

zammo wrote: »

Siphoning Strikes and Swallow Soul will only help if you can get back on the offensive. Without Healing Wards initial heal, that will be more difficult to do.

You only need one Swallow Soul for another 8s of healing. Is that harder to apply than, say, Mutagen? Sure. I've become quite conscious of it's defensive use, though, and try to keep it running.

Siphoning Strikes is a different matter. Of course, you are right. It's the same reason I don't like the Bloodthorn set. I imagine that depends on your playstyle though. If it includes facing away from the enemy, while using Healing Ward and the shade or Forward Momentum, and getting into cloak before your next burst, then you want skills that just plain heal you. Nightblade can pull this off. Nightblade is all about control, right? You'd rather disengage and not die than take a low percent chance on the fight? I'll freely admit that I am that type of player.

On the other hand there is no question that turning your back on an enemy often gets you killed. So I would not be surprised if more aggressive players felt better about the efficacy of Siphoning Attacks. If you are ranged, and you keep facing in your enemies' direction, there is nothing stopping you from continuing to weave, thus activating Siphoning Attacks, while casting Healing Ward. Nothing but flappy DKs and shielding wardens, of course.

brandonv516

For my heavy armor healing MagBlade, I've already phased out Healing Ward in the build and it works. It's rough but manageable.

For my light armor damage MagBlade, I'm going to have to work on it some more.

CatchMeTrolling

HaruKamui wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

imo magblade isn't as affected as magsorcs with the removal of the initial heal. We have tons of self-heals from our attacks.

Which becomes irrelevant when you’re in execute range. You get a heal plus a shield, everyone is affected by it.

Now most people will need to run a hot or it’s gg when they get bursted into execute range without a shield up.

I dont think hots are irrelevant at execute range if you have the shield from healing ward absorbing the impact, while my hots take me out of execute range.

Don't get me wrong I dont like the change at all. I just think sorcs are affected much worse than us magblades with the change.

You said hots from your attacks. So how are those hots going to save you if you get hit with a burst combo and you’re in the defense.

Making my point, now a hot outside of attacking is mandatory. Plus, you can’t really compare heavy and light in execute range.

HowlKimchi

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

imo magblade isn't as affected as magsorcs with the removal of the initial heal. We have tons of self-heals from our attacks.

Which becomes irrelevant when you’re in execute range. You get a heal plus a shield, everyone is affected by it.

Now most people will need to run a hot or it’s gg when they get bursted into execute range without a shield up.

I dont think hots are irrelevant at execute range if you have the shield from healing ward absorbing the impact, while my hots take me out of execute range.

Don't get me wrong I dont like the change at all. I just think sorcs are affected much worse than us magblades with the change.

You said hots from your attacks. So how are those hots going to save you if you get hit with a burst combo and you’re in the defense.

Making my point, now a hot outside of attacking is mandatory. Plus, you can’t really compare heavy and light in execute range.

funnel health should always be up, even while on the defensive, no? It lasts 10 seconds. It's also better at getting you outside execute range if you're light armor. It should hit harded (hence heal more) and you have a lower hp than the typical heavy armor user. so each tick is a bigger percentage of your total health pool.

Look im not arguing here. I'm just responding to the OP that while it IS a nerf, I dont think it HAS to be replaced on a magblade as it will still perform well as an o *** skill.

HowlKimchi

HaruKamui wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

imo magblade isn't as affected as magsorcs with the removal of the initial heal. We have tons of self-heals from our attacks.

Which becomes irrelevant when you’re in execute range. You get a heal plus a shield, everyone is affected by it.

Now most people will need to run a hot or it’s gg when they get bursted into execute range without a shield up.

I dont think hots are irrelevant at execute range if you have the shield from healing ward absorbing the impact, while my hots take me out of execute range.

Don't get me wrong I dont like the change at all. I just think sorcs are affected much worse than us magblades with the change.

You said hots from your attacks. So how are those hots going to save you if you get hit with a burst combo and you’re in the defense.

Making my point, now a hot outside of attacking is mandatory. Plus, you can’t really compare heavy and light in execute range.

funnel health should always be up, even while on the defensive, no? It lasts 10 seconds. It's also better at getting you outside execute range if you're light armor: i should hit harded (hence heal more) and you have a lower hp than the typical heavy armor user. so each tick is a bigger percentage of your total health pool.

Look im not arguing here. I'm just responding to the OP that while it IS a nerf, I dont think it HAS to be replaced on a magblade as it will still perform well as an o *** skill.

Joy_Division

kaithuzar wrote: »

Thoughts?

My thought is that Healing Ward should not be nerfed.

AllPlayAndNoWork

Joy_Division wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Thoughts?

My thought is that Healing Ward should not be nerfed.

Its not even anyone has complained about the skill either.... Its just been decided... for no reason I can fathom.

I think Its a monstrous nerf to smallscale players & solo players alike.... Maybe that's what they want....

zammo

fred4 wrote: »

zammo wrote: »

Siphoning Strikes and Swallow Soul will only help if you can get back on the offensive. Without Healing Wards initial heal, that will be more difficult to do.

You only need one Swallow Soul for another 8s of healing. Is that harder to apply than, say, Mutagen? Sure. I've become quite conscious of it's defensive use, though, and try to keep it running.

Not possible to keep it ticking out of combat though, so if you're on the receiving end of a gank, you're out of luck.

Let's assume the best though, and you get one off. With a 9k tool tip, that becomes 4.5k in PVP. 25% (the healing amount) is 1.125k which will tick 5(?) times over the next 10 seconds for a total of 5.625k of healing. I'm not home right now, but I think that's about in line with other HoTs? On their own, they aint gonna do much over the 6 seconds Healing Ward is up. You need all running together to get your health back up to a reasonable level in that time.

in the middle of a fight, Forward Momentum might drop off, Mutagen might go elsewhere (much like healing ward itself lets not forget), you might step off Refreshing Path, you might be on the defensive and not throwing light attacks for Siphoning Strikes, or spamming Swallow Soul. You can't expect to keep them all ticking 100% of the time.

You can't count on the final heal from Healing Ward.

The initial heal from healing ward, gives the HoTs the initial kick they need to give you a chance.

CatchMeTrolling

HaruKamui wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

imo magblade isn't as affected as magsorcs with the removal of the initial heal. We have tons of self-heals from our attacks.

Which becomes irrelevant when you’re in execute range. You get a heal plus a shield, everyone is affected by it.

Now most people will need to run a hot or it’s gg when they get bursted into execute range without a shield up.

I dont think hots are irrelevant at execute range if you have the shield from healing ward absorbing the impact, while my hots take me out of execute range.

Don't get me wrong I dont like the change at all. I just think sorcs are affected much worse than us magblades with the change.

You said hots from your attacks. So how are those hots going to save you if you get hit with a burst combo and you’re in the defense.

Making my point, now a hot outside of attacking is mandatory. Plus, you can’t really compare heavy and light in execute range.

funnel health should always be up, even while on the defensive, no? It lasts 10 seconds. It's also better at getting you outside execute range if you're light armor. It should hit harded (hence heal more) and you have a lower hp than the typical heavy armor user. so each tick is a bigger percentage of your total health pool.

Look im not arguing here. I'm just responding to the OP that while it IS a nerf, I dont think it HAS to be replaced on a magblade as it will still perform well as an o *** skill.

You play no cp? The initial heal is a big loss vs anyone that knows how to apply pressure, even more so with the new changes to shields. Let a stamplar get on you next patch, it’s over.

This patch you can run healing ward swallow/funnel and siphoning attacks and could manage. Next patch that will not be the case. So like I said it’ll affect magblades too, remember not everyone runs a plethora of hots. On top of that solo magblades will take a hit from this.

katorga

You either protect healing ward with another shield, or high damage mitigation, or cloak, or shade+cloak so it doesn't take damage to get the heal from it at the end. Heavy armor builds will make better use of it than light armor.


PTS always cracks me up.

"we heard healers want to feel needed" -> nerf a healing skill
"We heard players want the ice mage play style" -> remove ice damage from one of the few warden ice skills

brandonv516

AllPlayAndNoWork wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Thoughts?

My thought is that Healing Ward should not be nerfed.

Its not even anyone has complained about the skill either.... Its just been decided... for no reason I can fathom.

I think Its a monstrous nerf to smallscale players & solo players alike.... Maybe that's what they want....

No people weren't even complaining about the heal.

They are however complaining about the shield that scales at 300% based on missing health and won't be happy until that's gone too.

NyassaV

Joy_Division wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Thoughts?

My thought is that Healing Ward should not be nerfed.

Pretty much

ccmedaddy

AllPlayAndNoWork wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Thoughts?

My thought is that Healing Ward should not be nerfed.

Its not even anyone has complained about the skill either.... Its just been decided... for no reason I can fathom.

I think Its a monstrous nerf to smallscale players & solo players alike.... Maybe that's what they want....

You'd be surprised. 'Healing Ward is OP' is something I hear pretty often from players who I assume only play stamina, both on the forums and in game.

In reality, it is an expensive skill that provides, at most, a 6~7k shield in execute range that HAS to be combined with other shields in order for its user to reap its full benefits. Easy to counter with burst, and also extremely unreliable because if there are other players around you.

Kinda says a lot about the people who want this skill nerfed.

TheDoomsdayMonster

Nm

fred4

ccmedaddy wrote: »

You'd be surprised. 'Healing Ward is OP' is something I hear pretty often from players who I assume only play stamina, both on the forums and in game.

I hope the class reps are people who each play a few different classes, mag and stam, so they have a better perspective on this.

ScruffyWhiskers

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

There are some subtly to Healing Ward that some here apparently aren't aware of that are contributing factors to it being nerfed...

I won't say out loud; at least until the nerf is finalized, but there is more to it than some of you know...

Sorry but this is a silly statement. Democracy Dies in Darkness LOL and all that. Just state what this wonderful nuance is so it can be examined, analysed and debated.

Oh, and I think I am going to go back to destruction staff on the back bar and just die more.

Dojohoda

Healing ward almost never landed on me; I would have to cast it a few times to get it. I have already switched to the other morph, but am trying it on a high crit resist and high phys/spell resist build. I am still trying out variables.

Edit: 2 heavy, 5 light

Koolio

My fighting build got hit hard with this change

My gank build will have minimal issues

Fair fighting nerfed
Cheap gameplay buffed (as a whole)

brandonv516

So I'm playing around with: Ward Ally, Blessing of Protection, Shadow Image out of danger.

If Shadow Image not available: Ward Ally, Blessing of Protection, dodge roll, cloak out of danger.

Old tactics used to be the same except Fear instead of Blessing of Protection.

It's working on live but i have no way of knowing what damage the shields can take on PTS. I've heard they are melting faster.

I have played without Fear before. I make this decision mainly because I have Flame Reach on the front bar, Fear has been reduced to 2 enemies, and I have Minor Maim still with Shadow Image on the back bar.

I like playing my MagBlade in light armor so I will likely try to make it work. If they revert the Healing Ward changes, that would obviously be ideal. The Blackrose resto staff will be meta for sure though.