Cast time on cloak

Sharee

Cast time was added to shields because devs want them to be proactive defense, to be used before engagement, not reactive (while under attack).

Cloak is a reactive defense by definition (otherwise you would just crouch). So cast time is a no-go. I do expect some other adjustment tho.

LegendaryMage

What do you mean cloak doesn't mitigate damage? Whoever said that has no clue how it works. First of all, cloak mitigates ALL damage if you're far enough, you don't get revealed and know how to use it.

And yes, you can even attack from stealth, just go look at my last NB BGs video, I use cloak all the time to charge up a hard hitting attack (that's now a guaranteed crit btw), so don't tell me you can't do anything while you're in it because you can.

You can even cast many skills that won't break it, pre-buff, post-buff, whatever you want. I regularly cast rally, shuffle, relentless and what not, while cloaked. This is called efficiency. You buff up when they can't attack you, so when they can, you can too and your dmg > their dmg. Easy logic.

Second, if you cloak at the right time, you can prevent any single target projectile from hitting you, and from AS MANY PLAYERS as the attacks qualify from. You got that?

You can avoid 'insert any dmg number here' just like THAT. Now tell me can you do that with streak/BoL? Hell no. You'll get pumped with arrows before you know it if you don't keep going, and then they'll catch up to you thanks to mobility (don't even need swift, basic sprinting with a speed buff will totally do), and you'll be OOM.

So guys, be realistic. A lot of you are NBs. I have two NBs, two Sorcs and all other classes both magicka and stamina. NBs are 2 times superior than sorcs in all aspects of the game. I don't hope that cloak gets nerfed but man, I'm really getting fed up with this nub agenda that's wrecking all other classes left and right. I can see the cp300 guys being packed by sorcs in PVP and then coming to the forums to cry about it. Then you add on top of that incompetent devs that aren't even PVPing properly and voila, enjoy Crapmire changes that are just around the corner...

Tommy_The_Gun

So now you have a taste what the forums will be like if those changes to shields (cast time) will go live. I will say this:
Making shield crit-able is a big game changer enough and provides a lot more counterplay. Adding a cast time is simply an over - kill (or over - nerf).

This is the first round of Murkmire PTS and we already have an angry players calling for nerfs for other classes.
In future this will result in like Templars having a cast time of Breath of Life or (better example) Nightblades having a cast time on cloak. If this will happen Nightblades will be in a much worse situation than sorcs. Unlike shield stacking - cloak in the only survivability skill (both mag & stam blades) use to survive.

Now look, I am a non-sorc main and looking objectivity at things - shields having cast time is, like I said before - an over - kill.

CrazYDunm3r

Funny all these people denying all those things... I'm a DK main, just started playing a NB and damn that class is so easy because of cloak it isn't even funny.

IZZEFlameLash

Yes, let's add 1 sec cast time. This is the way the game is meant to be balanced 100% as demonstrated by ZOS. We are all meant to get instagibbed by the will of ZOS if we don't play NB.

Mystrius_Archaion

Cinbri wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

I would say zos should be carefull here coz it easy to break Cloak but saying that Cloak not mitigating damage...

^^Guess how much damage Cloak mitigated from 4 players even when it was broken by aoe instantly.

Cloak doesn't mitigate damage when they're not invisible. Your own gif there shows your target nightblade still taking damage both with the health bar moving and the numbers above their head and it looks like they were getting healed which was what really kept them alive.

Maybe pay attention to what you're seeing before claiming something else is going on.

FYI, that "miss miss miss" you see could very well be old Major Evasion from a skill or item set or maybe they "Meridia's Blessed Armor"-ed you.
It doesn't matter anyway as cloak wasn't the issue with your gif. The nightblade there was built/playing well to be able to keep from dying instantly to your 4-man-focus-fire.

Denying reality won't help, gif shows pretty obviously how 1 usage of cloak 100% mitigated 6 damage ticks only from 1 enemy even when being instantly broken by jabs aoe and 2nd cloak mitigated 3 of my ticks and all projectile attacks of teammates. Try to say how it not mitigate damage again without those artifice about meridia and that evasion, you either don't know how those 2 works (meridia is debuff and it would miss all my attacks not those that ticks right after cloak and I showed my hp bar to show that there is no meridia debuff on me; nor evasion nor roll-dodge cant "miss" magicka aoe damage, there is "dodged" category for it), or just cant accept that cloak is not as weak as you try to claim.

Whatever.
My point was they were still losing health and going to drop because there were 4 players at least focus-firing on him while he walked through a Wall of Frost AoE. He was done for.

If cloak really was overpowered then he would have at least survived easily getting away.

Biro123

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

threads made to hurt and nerf other classes out of retaliation and spite and not interested in actual class balance.

How dare you? How very dare you!

How can you look in the mirror?

All you have done on these forums for the past 6 months is yell 'nerf sorcs' 'nerf sorcs'. In every single form, be it shields, sustain or damage..

Now you have your wish and it's now 'dont you look at my class'.

You are the absute LAST person to talk about actual class balance and THE worst offender for wanting their class/playstyle to be overpowered and everyone else nerfed.

Hypocrite.

ChefZero

1s cast time for a cloak, 9s duration and can't break by damage taken.. why not!?

Ragnaroek93

Jaxaxo wrote: »

Since main defence of sorcerer class get cast time i would expect the same thing changed with shadowy disguise from nigthblade. Fighting vs cloak without specific counters (pots, mark which was chenged to 5 sec), can be extremely painfull and hard. Like responded in forum thread

ZOS_RobGarrett wrote: »

It was too easy to throw a bunch of effective health on yourself while making a minimal sacrifice in terms of DPS itemization and rotation. This applied to both PvE and PvP scenarios.
[...]
The addition of a cast time makes that choice between damage output and survivability more deliberate and strategic.

Like stated above, same thing applies to ability to cloak in pvp. Nightblades are able to get high survivability with minimal sacrifice of dps. Cast time on cloak would give enemies strategic options to counterplay against nightblades, instead of throwing cc keep enemy off cc immunty to bash/stop nb from casting cloak and being able to use it for next seconds. And same strategic options would be expected from nightblade, keep tracking cc immunity to be able to cloak without problem, keep distance to prevent bashing and then cloak. This would add some counterplay and prevent problem stated with ZOS response

That's wrong. Sorc has to sacrifice dps to get survivability and so do Nightblades. Their defense just works different and they have to go for regen instead of health and resis. When did you see a sorc or a nb without lots of sustain? I usually run above 2k magicka regen, some cost reduction and some stamina sustain on my sorc. I also run around 2.5k stam regen and around 900 magicka regen on my stamina nb (and trust me, that's a low sustain build compared to what others run). On my tank builds I can sustain with far less regen.

Ragnaroek93

Biro123 wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

threads made to hurt and nerf other classes out of retaliation and spite and not interested in actual class balance.

How dare you? How very dare you!

How can you look in the mirror?

All you have done on these forums for the past 6 months is yell 'nerf sorcs' 'nerf sorcs'. In every single form, be it shields, sustain or damage..

Now you have your wish and it's now 'dont you look at my class'.

You are the absute LAST person to talk about actual class balance and THE worst offender for wanting their class/playstyle to be overpowered and everyone else nerfed.

Hypocrite.

You know that sorcs got overnerfed in the moment when even @dwemer_paleologist thinks that a cast time on shields is a bad idea

Banana

We just need a 1 second delay on vigor now so everyone is wound up

Kadoin

Cinbri wrote: »

I would say zos should be carefull here coz it easy to break Cloak but saying that Cloak not mitigating damage...

^^Guess how much damage Cloak mitigated from 4 players even when it was broken by aoe instantly.

No matter how much proof you supply, forumblades will never admit the truth. It also works like that with invis pots...

Juhasow

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

threads made to hurt and nerf other classes out of retaliation and spite and not interested in actual class balance.

Actually OP main is PvP stamblade so idk what retaliation and spite You're talking about.

Juhasow

Sharee wrote: »

Cast time was added to shields because devs want them to be proactive defense, to be used before engagement, not reactive (while under attack).

Cloak is a reactive defense by definition (otherwise you would just crouch). So cast time is a no-go. I do expect some other adjustment tho.

So when You walk into someone in cloak without taking any dmg so You can open fight with burst combo freely it's not proactive defense ? Nightblade class also have shade into cloak combo which done properly is the biggest proactive defense combo in the game. And please dont give me argument with sneak/hide option because it fails before You are even in meele range for incap/supprise attack plus it's only good if You're medium armor stam user on khajit/bosmer which is very limiting compared to cloak.

Juhasow

I would rather like to see disconnecting cloak into roll dodge combo because this is what makes cloak truly strong and what makes stamblade much more effective cloak user then magblade which is kinda irony. Current murkmire roll dodge "nerf" is laughable and it's not even working on PTS. Giving X seconds cooldown on using cloak after roll dodge would be one of the solutions increasing cloak cost like 2 times for next X seconds after roll dodge would be another. There is plenty more of ways to hit abilities that overperform other then just adding cast times which are contradicting game base design of smooth and dynamic combat.

Sharee

Juhasow wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Cast time was added to shields because devs want them to be proactive defense, to be used before engagement, not reactive (while under attack).

Cloak is a reactive defense by definition (otherwise you would just crouch). So cast time is a no-go. I do expect some other adjustment tho.

So when You walk into someone in cloak without taking any dmg so You can open fight with burst combo freely it's not proactive defense ? Nightblade class also have shade into cloak combo which done properly is the biggest proactive defense combo in the game. And please dont give me argument with sneak/hide option because it fails before You are even in meele range for incap/supprise attack plus it's only good if You're medium armor stam user on khajit/bosmer which is very limiting compared to cloak.

You shade into cloak before the combat begins? That would be proactive.
If you shade into cloakmid-fight then that would be a reactive use, not proactive.

Maryal

DDuke wrote: »

And what... remove all medium armor/non-2H builds from the game? I'll just copy paste what I wrote on another thread that proposed halting magicka regen & stacking cost modifier on Cloak:

Such a backwards approach... you would punish players for using cloak skillfully (i.e. not getting revealed and not running out of magicka, which happens often to people who use it when they shouldn't) and it'd be a huge buff to zergs chasing solo players who often have to cloak multiple times in a row to drop combat in such scenarios.


Why not instead reward players who do manage to reveal a NB (with damage)? Add a 4s~ cooldown to casting cloak again, similar to how interrupting cast times/channels works. There, skillful play is rewarded and mistakes are punished - rather than the other way around.


Besides, making cloaking unsustainable as a form of defense would kill off the remaining few medium stamblades and force the rest of the NB population to play heavy armor like everyone else. Especially builds that do not run 2H and need the cloak to substitute a burst heal (i.e. when Vigor does not outheal DoTs or you need to cloak something that can't be dodged).


To illustrate this, imagine a scenario where you get Fossilized & DoT'd up by a mDK, maybe some other player standing around somewhere as well. You need to CC break & Vigor+Dodge Roll, you're around 50% health and those DoTs are dealing more damage than your Vigor heals for. You cloak.. heal for 4,5k'ish... DoTs are still running, you try to cloak again but you can't because there's a stacking cost modifier and your 800 magicka regen was stopped during the cloak. Skoria lands (maybe a Leap too) -> dead.
^
That's not really the kind of gameplay I want to see in this game.

With 1s cast time what's going to happen? You get DBOS'd, you're at 30-40% health with DoTs ticking on you & start casting cloak... oh, dead.

You jump down from a keep and suddenly a zerg appears from behind the corner. Oh ***, you start casting cloak... dead.


It is not a feasible "solution" to a "problem" that doesn't even exist for half the builds out there.

Steel Tornado slotted? Cloak builds just became free AP.
Det pots? Det poisons? Yummy, free AP.
Curse/POTL/Purifying Light? Also very strong counters, especially vs stamblades who can't spam cloak in the first place.


...and now there's a viable Impulse as well (not the 6m PBAoE morph, the ranged one that you can aim) to counter both cloak/dodge roll.


If anything, they should promote skillful gameplay by adding a 4s cooldown on cloak if you get revealed by damage. That would punish people who just mindlessly spam the skill but would leave room for people to use it strategically (or to avoid certain death in many scenarios).

ChefZero wrote: »

1s cast time for a cloak, 9s duration and can't break by damage taken.. why not!?

I could live with with a 1s cast time for cloak if it lasted 9s and couldn't be broken by damage taken.

DarkPicture

Yea, cast time on cloak should be added after adding cast time on wings dk and add 2x more cost for each next also cast time on sorc streak if u want truly balance dont only blame nb for that but other class too. When nb sees a dk he will not fight with him because wings, killing templar also is hard with too much healing and etc... Sorc with streak dont have any counter play and he can just run away like dk can spam with wings, so stop crying about cloak where its not the biggest problem.

Biro123

Maryal wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

And what... remove all medium armor/non-2H builds from the game? I'll just copy paste what I wrote on another thread that proposed halting magicka regen & stacking cost modifier on Cloak:

Such a backwards approach... you would punish players for using cloak skillfully (i.e. not getting revealed and not running out of magicka, which happens often to people who use it when they shouldn't) and it'd be a huge buff to zergs chasing solo players who often have to cloak multiple times in a row to drop combat in such scenarios.


Why not instead reward players who do manage to reveal a NB (with damage)? Add a 4s~ cooldown to casting cloak again, similar to how interrupting cast times/channels works. There, skillful play is rewarded and mistakes are punished - rather than the other way around.


Besides, making cloaking unsustainable as a form of defense would kill off the remaining few medium stamblades and force the rest of the NB population to play heavy armor like everyone else. Especially builds that do not run 2H and need the cloak to substitute a burst heal (i.e. when Vigor does not outheal DoTs or you need to cloak something that can't be dodged).


To illustrate this, imagine a scenario where you get Fossilized & DoT'd up by a mDK, maybe some other player standing around somewhere as well. You need to CC break & Vigor+Dodge Roll, you're around 50% health and those DoTs are dealing more damage than your Vigor heals for. You cloak.. heal for 4,5k'ish... DoTs are still running, you try to cloak again but you can't because there's a stacking cost modifier and your 800 magicka regen was stopped during the cloak. Skoria lands (maybe a Leap too) -> dead.
^
That's not really the kind of gameplay I want to see in this game.

With 1s cast time what's going to happen? You get DBOS'd, you're at 30-40% health with DoTs ticking on you & start casting cloak... oh, dead.

You jump down from a keep and suddenly a zerg appears from behind the corner. Oh ***, you start casting cloak... dead.


It is not a feasible "solution" to a "problem" that doesn't even exist for half the builds out there.

Steel Tornado slotted? Cloak builds just became free AP.
Det pots? Det poisons? Yummy, free AP.
Curse/POTL/Purifying Light? Also very strong counters, especially vs stamblades who can't spam cloak in the first place.


...and now there's a viable Impulse as well (not the 6m PBAoE morph, the ranged one that you can aim) to counter both cloak/dodge roll.


If anything, they should promote skillful gameplay by adding a 4s cooldown on cloak if you get revealed by damage. That would punish people who just mindlessly spam the skill but would leave room for people to use it strategically (or to avoid certain death in many scenarios).

ChefZero wrote: »

1s cast time for a cloak, 9s duration and can't break by damage taken.. why not!?

I could live with with a 1s cast time for cloak if it lasted 9s and couldn't be broken by damage taken.

I could live with a 1s cast time on shield if it lasted more than 2 seconds without getting broke by damage taken.

Strider__Roshin

Give it the same punishment Mist Form has. No healing nor magicka regen while invisible.

Illuvatarr

MacCait wrote: »

Perhaps make some constructive suggestions instead of just crying NERF to other classes.

Have you ever even played a Nightblade? Cloak is not a shield and does not mitigate damage. The PvP morph that mitigated some damge was already removed. There are TONS of ways to pull people out of cloak.

This is just a pointless retaliation thread that doesnt addd to the discussion of the current suggested changes.

BTW I am against shield cast nerf. But I'm also against pointless NERF threads

MacCait wrote: »

Perhaps make some constructive suggestions instead of just crying NERF to other classes.

Have you ever even played a Nightblade? Cloak is not a shield and does not mitigate damage. The PvP morph that mitigated some damge was already removed. There are TONS of ways to pull people out of cloak.

This is just a pointless retaliation thread that doesnt addd to the discussion of the current suggested changes.

BTW I am against shield cast nerf. But I'm also against pointless NERF threads

MacCait wrote: »

Perhaps make some constructive suggestions instead of just crying NERF to other classes.

Have you ever even played a Nightblade? Cloak is not a shield and does not mitigate damage. The PvP morph that mitigated some damge was already removed. There are TONS of ways to pull people out of cloak.

This is just a pointless retaliation thread that doesnt addd to the discussion of the current suggested changes.

BTW I am against shield cast nerf. But I'm also against pointless NERF threads

MacCait wrote: »

Perhaps make some constructive suggestions instead of just crying NERF to other classes.

Have you ever even played a Nightblade? Cloak is not a shield and does not mitigate damage. The PvP morph that mitigated some damge was already removed. There are TONS of ways to pull people out of cloak.

This is just a pointless retaliation thread that doesnt addd to the discussion of the current suggested changes.

BTW I am against shield cast nerf. But I'm also against pointless NERF threads

Wrong. Cloak is the hallmark of damage mitigation. It allows you to hit a button and avoid ALL incoming damage.

HankTwo

Jaxaxo is one of the strongest NB players on PC EU no CP I know of, so I would definitely trust his experience. I don't really know him well as a person, but sometimes he seems a bit like a prankster. So, I'm not 100% sure if this thread is serious or made as satire because of the shield overnerfs.

While I would agree that cloak can be too strong, I'm not sure if an interruptible cast times is the right way to go. The game is fast paced, and I don't think slowing down combat is the right direction. I also disagree with people saying cloak needs the streak treatment. When a NBs start to spam cloak they are completely at the defensive, quite slow and they won't do any damage. Sure, it can be annoying if they manage to escape with little health, but the problem with cloak lies elsewhere imo.

The biggest gripe I have with cloak is that NBs can just activate it to deny a burst. As some people here stated this can effectively negate a large amount of damage. Additionally, when they are under 50% health and use trollking + vigor into cloak, they can very easily get back their health in a short amount of time with too little counterplay. To me it looks like other classes have to work harder (= it takes more time/resources) to get back to the offensive (apart from healbots ofc). Good NBs won't spam cloak, but they will use it periodically depending on the pressure on them to deny damage, heal, and return to the offensive. It can also be very annoying to fight 2 or more decent NBs at the same time, since whenever one of them gets to low health he can simply cloak. It's pretty much impossible to focus him down afterwards unless you run spin2win, because the other NB(s) will still attack you.

So, how would I change cloak? First of all remove that very short time window where even AOEs are forced to miss. Then either allow DOTs to damage cloaking NBs without taking them out of stealth or reduce their healing and health recovery by a good amount for the duration of cloak (maybe even if the NB gets revealed). It could also be a combination of the two with a percentage reduction to incoming DOT damage to balance it.

Arkangeloski

LegendaryMage wrote: »

What do you mean cloak doesn't mitigate damage? Whoever said that has no clue how it works. First of all, cloak mitigates ALL damage if you're far enough, you don't get revealed and know how to use it.

And yes, you can even attack from stealth, just go look at my last NB BGs video, I use cloak all the time to charge up a hard hitting attack (that's now a guaranteed crit btw), so don't tell me you can't do anything while you're in it because you can.

You can even cast many skills that won't break it, pre-buff, post-buff, whatever you want. I regularly cast rally, shuffle, relentless and what not, while cloaked. This is called efficiency. You buff up when they can't attack you, so when they can, you can too and your dmg > their dmg. Easy logic.

Second, if you cloak at the right time, you can prevent any single target projectile from hitting you, and from AS MANY PLAYERS as the attacks qualify from. You got that?

You can avoid 'insert any dmg number here' just like THAT. Now tell me can you do that with streak/BoL? Hell no. You'll get pumped with arrows before you know it if you don't keep going, and then they'll catch up to you thanks to mobility (don't even need swift, basic sprinting with a speed buff will totally do), and you'll be OOM.

So guys, be realistic. A lot of you are NBs. I have two NBs, two Sorcs and all other classes both magicka and stamina. NBs are 2 times superior than sorcs in all aspects of the game. I don't hope that cloak gets nerfed but man, I'm really getting fed up with this nub agenda that's wrecking all other classes left and right. I can see the cp300 guys being packed by sorcs in PVP and then coming to the forums to cry about it. Then you add on top of that incompetent devs that aren't even PVPing properly and voila, enjoy Crapmire changes that are just around the corner...

Are you on Xbox? bring your nightblade I got a sorc friend I want you to duel... u might disintegrate in mid dodgeroll lol.

LegendaryMage

Arkangeloski wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

What do you mean cloak doesn't mitigate damage? Whoever said that has no clue how it works. First of all, cloak mitigates ALL damage if you're far enough, you don't get revealed and know how to use it.

And yes, you can even attack from stealth, just go look at my last NB BGs video, I use cloak all the time to charge up a hard hitting attack (that's now a guaranteed crit btw), so don't tell me you can't do anything while you're in it because you can.

You can even cast many skills that won't break it, pre-buff, post-buff, whatever you want. I regularly cast rally, shuffle, relentless and what not, while cloaked. This is called efficiency. You buff up when they can't attack you, so when they can, you can too and your dmg > their dmg. Easy logic.

Second, if you cloak at the right time, you can prevent any single target projectile from hitting you, and from AS MANY PLAYERS as the attacks qualify from. You got that?

You can avoid 'insert any dmg number here' just like THAT. Now tell me can you do that with streak/BoL? Hell no. You'll get pumped with arrows before you know it if you don't keep going, and then they'll catch up to you thanks to mobility (don't even need swift, basic sprinting with a speed buff will totally do), and you'll be OOM.

So guys, be realistic. A lot of you are NBs. I have two NBs, two Sorcs and all other classes both magicka and stamina. NBs are 2 times superior than sorcs in all aspects of the game. I don't hope that cloak gets nerfed but man, I'm really getting fed up with this nub agenda that's wrecking all other classes left and right. I can see the cp300 guys being packed by sorcs in PVP and then coming to the forums to cry about it. Then you add on top of that incompetent devs that aren't even PVPing properly and voila, enjoy Crapmire changes that are just around the corner...

Are you on Xbox? bring your nightblade I got a sorc friend I want you to duel... u might disintegrate in mid dodgeroll lol.

Is this supposed to be funny or?

DDuke

Illuvatarr wrote: »

Wrong. Cloak is the hallmark of damage mitigation. It allows you to hit a button and avoid ALL incoming damage.

Why don't you try to mitigate some of my Steel Tornados? See how that works out for you.

Or Overwhelming set when I play my mDK... or literally any damage when I use detection poisons/potions.


Same goes for everyone who wants to try, @DDuke on PC EU and no cloak spamming NB has lived past 20 seconds yet (I think record is around 13 seconds). People just need to learn how to counter cloak rather than QQ about it non-stop like they've done over 4 years (during which cloak has been nerfed numerous times).

HankTwo wrote: »

Jaxaxo is one of the strongest NB players on PC EU no CP I know of, so I would definitely trust his experience. I don't really know him well as a person, but sometimes he seems a bit like a prankster. So, I'm not 100% sure if this thread is serious or made as satire because of the shield overnerfs.

Jaxaxo isn't bad, but I also happen to know he plays heavy armor. I'm yet to see anyone who plays medium (especially when they play without 2H) claim cloak is "overpowered" and needs a cast time or anything like that, so perhaps we should be looking at what makes "cloak" overpowered for heavy armor setups with 7th, Fury, TK, Forward Momentum etc etc rather than complain about cloak.

If cloak was the overpowered aspect here, then those medium setups would be too strong as well.

Oh, and here's a heavy armor stamblade without cloak, just to reinforce the point I'm trying to make: https://youtu.be/rg2lOYzZ0kI

HankTwo wrote: »

While I would agree that cloak can be too strong, I'm not sure if an interruptible cast times is the right way to go. The game is fast paced, and I don't think slowing down combat is the right direction. I also disagree with people saying cloak needs the streak treatment. When a NBs start to spam cloak they are completely at the defensive, quite slow and they won't do any damage. Sure, it can be annoying if they manage to escape with little health, but the problem with cloak lies elsewhere imo.

The biggest gripe I have with cloak is that NBs can just activate it to deny a burst. As some people here stated this can effectively negate a large amount of damage. Additionally, when they are under 50% health and use trollking + vigor into cloak, they can very easily get back their health in a short amount of time with too little counterplay. To me it looks like other classes have to work harder (= it takes more time/resources) to get back to the offensive (apart from healbots ofc). Good NBs won't spam cloak, but they will use it periodically depending on the pressure on them to deny damage, heal, and return to the offensive. It can also be very annoying to fight 2 or more decent NBs at the same time, since whenever one of them gets to low health he can simply cloak. It's pretty much impossible to focus him down afterwards unless you run spin2win, because the other NB(s) will still attack you.

Yes, it's used to deny burst (when not countered) - it's also the only such tool available to builds that do not run 2H (and builds that need to counter burst often, i.e. medium armor builds which drop too often for Rally to be fully viable).

Yet, it can still be countered easily by dozens of abilities in the game (like spin2win which you mentioned) which is fine, because that raises the skill floor of NB as different situations call for different responses and that separates good players from the bad.

HankTwo wrote: »

So, how would I change cloak? First of all remove that very short time window where even AOEs are forced to miss. Then either allow DOTs to damage cloaking NBs without taking them out of stealth or reduce their healing and health recovery by a good amount for the duration of cloak (maybe even if the NB gets revealed). It could also be a combination of the two with a percentage reduction to incoming DOT damage to balance it.

...and rest in peace every build not running a 2H & Rally (and/or heavy armor to tank the damage). You need cloak to survive after being hit by Dawnbreaker (or DK Leap) as otherwise the DoTs will kill you with nothing you can do about it.


The only way to make fighting against cloak (and using it!) more fun and skill based is introducing a 3-4s cooldown if you're revealed by damage while using it (similar to how interrupting cast/channels work). That still allows for well-timed (i.e. skillful) use of the ability but punishes spamming it (rather than using it as it's supposed to be used).


Cost increase, healing reduction, DoTs going through it etc etc would only result in the extinction of already non-meta medium stamblades & would cause a mass exodus to toxic, unkillable heavy armor builds.

I'd like to think that's something nobody wants to see.

mistrija999

@DDuke
what a way to promote your video bravo, also this co*kiness lol
Watch out we got a pvp god over here, please balance us

DDuke

mistrija999 wrote: »

@DDuke
what a way to promote your video bravo, also this co*kiness lol
Watch out we got a pvp god over here, please balance us

...except that's not my video I linked.

I could of course just record my next BG and hope I queue against some cloak spammers to show how easily they're dealt with when you actually slot some skills/gear to deal with them (rather than expecting ZOS to make the skill useless because some people don't want to do that).

mistrija999

@DDuke
point is not to use special pots/gear/skills just to counter 1 skill that is clearly too OP when abused in PvP, it definitly needs nerf but not to a point where it should be usless like sorc shields

Strider__Roshin

DDuke wrote: »

mistrija999 wrote: »

@DDuke
what a way to promote your video bravo, also this co*kiness lol
Watch out we got a pvp god over here, please balance us

...except that's not my video I linked.

I could of course just record my next BG and hope I queue against some cloak spammers to show how easily they're dealt with when you actually slot some skills/gear to deal with them (rather than expecting ZOS to make the skill useless because some people don't want to do that).

Your thoughts on my suggestion about making it debuff you like Mist Form? No additional counters are introduced, and it maintains the same potency as an escape, but it doesn't allow the use to restore resources nor heal back to full.

With the harsh nerf to Piercing Mark I do believe this ability needs to be toned down.

JobooAGS

mistrija999 wrote: »

@DDuke
point is not to use special pots/gear/skills just to counter 1 skill that is clearly too OP when abused in PvP, it definitly needs nerf but not to a point where it should be usless like sorc shields

Spin2win pulls out cloak users, is a hard counter to dodge builds and is a good execute. If you use dw, why wouldnt you use spin2win if stam?