Before you say "ADAPT"...

Sevn

Well said! I now expect to not see these same names in the next nerf NB thread asking for cloak or some other "uncounterable" skill to be nerfed.

Bruccius

VaranisArano wrote: »

Bruccius wrote: »

The thing I have noticed with all these nerves is that with each ''OP class'' getting nerfed, another becomes OP. Which then gets nerfed. Which makes another class OP. Which gets nerfed, etc. etc. etc.

Either that, or in order to balance an OP class, another one is buffed... making it too OP.

To me it feels like these changes are just a waste of time in the long run, how difficult can it truly be to properly balance these mechanics?

Properly balanced mechanics don't keep players grinding to chase the carrot of the ever-changing meta.

I suppose you're right.

But still, in general, doesn't it annoy people that they have to change classes after (x) amount of updates because their class just isn't performing like it used to?

robpr

Sevn wrote: »

Well said! I now expect to not see these same names in the next nerf NB thread asking for cloak or some other "uncounterable" skill to be nerfed.

Probably, but I feel it's just a matter of time that AoEs will break cloak.

mongoLC

Why should we care magsorcs did this to themselves.

nerf sorcs!

VaranisArano

Bowser wrote: »

No, I did not know people can "adapat" to changes.

Red_Feather

I've been only playing for 3 months but my first time in BG I just spammed annulment and it was like players never existed before that moment and didn't know what to do.

bardx86

Arkangeloski wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Wtf is "Adapt"?

Try to say that to the sexual harrasement victims: Hey, just adapt and next time imagine, that this is your boyfriend or husband and try to get pleasure!

Turelus wrote: »

How should they have adapted to sorc shields? Playing devil's advocate.

There is a plenty of oblivion damage sets.
L2p and "adapt" to sorcs - they were like that since beta and since then got only nerfs

Exactly you said it since beta... other classes have evolved some for better and some for worst sadly that is the mmo way of keeping things fresh, sorcs shield stacking was long over due, don't get me wrong it always been manageable in most cases but in other's it was completely annoying. But i will stand for sorcs on this whole casting time on shields it's ridiculous and can not go live period. Adding crit damage to shields it's more than enough, why? because now every magic class has to stack cp in to resistances crit mitigation and not just dump 100pts on bastion. or why not just slightly nerf bastion and make the shields a little softer and call it a day? cast time has to go... and that is coming from a guy that main a stamblade and dislike sorcs but knows when to draw that line... I hope u guys get a better deal

A honest NB? who knew, thanks brother.

boombazookajd

Trinity_Is_My_Name wrote: »

This patch on the PTS is very worrisome to me. I play all classes and I do mean all classes. I have one stamina and one magicka of each class in all roles including Healers, Tanks and DPS.

I don't mind the changes on the PTS much with one exception and that is the cast time for damage shields. Yes, I have tried it on the PTS on both my Magicka Sorc and on one of my Templars. It is clunky, slow, looks like a bowel movement going on and ruins fast paced game play.

I have two accounts with 15 characters on the main acct close to 1200 CP and my alt acct has 8 characters at 732 CP. I love this game. I really do. I have two subscriptions and five or six houses on each account. But this shield cast time has me flustered and angry at whomever came up with it being a good idea and actually implementing it.

So last night I logged off early and decided to go look at other MMO's. I don't know what I am going to do but if this goes live I consider myself to have two options: 1) Continue playing ESO on my characters that don't use damage shields hoping the cast time is removed in the future or 2) Cancel my subs and go find another MMO to play.

This isn't a threat or ruse it's just me being wrought with a decision I have to make if this cast time makes it to the Live server. I just cannot play my Magicka classes with a cast time on damage shields. The game play in my opinion is ruined for those characters.

I never thought a change such as this would ever even be considered. And here we are today. So I ask myself "What will they do next that will damage this game even more?"

Yes, I know, some will say "Adapt" and all that other stuff and "L2P". I get it, I do. It just isn't the way I want to play this game.

Let's hope ZOS is paying attention to what everyone has to say about this change. Have a good day everyone.

Yep. There aren't many options on console. The two games I'm looking forward to come out at about the same time, Ace Combat 7 and Fallout 76. So, if this all does go down the way we fear, I'm leaving ESO behind.

Toc de Malsvi

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

I know you know this, Turelus, so why be disingenuous about it? Unless you simply wanted the points to be reiterated for the benefit of those unaware. But I can assure you that those who still cry foul about Sorcs as of the WH update either lack the competence or the intellectual honesty to acknowledge these concepts.

Because when someone makes a thread with a single sentence statement, I expect them to add reasoning to that statement that others who are not well read or versed can understand.
Otherwise it's just a statement and means nothing.

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

How should they have adapted to sorc shields? Playing devil's advocate.

Don’t you mean Daedra’s advocate?

touché

You know there were sets out there designed to kill sorcerers plus a cp tree dedicated to doing more dmg to shields. That is your counter play

Right but every time I've ever pointed out there are specific counters in the game to kill Nightblades I got told how someone shouldn't have to build to kill a specific class.

But there isnt a set out there that goes through roll dodge is my point

Virtually a third of the skills in the game go through dodge roll. Dodge roll is only OP to noobs who build with all single target dodgeables.

bardx86

p00tx wrote: »

Okay, I'm going to preface this by saying first that I don't get or like the shield changes (for selfish reasons), and I do not support this change. However, there is some sound reasoning when you think about it.

1) Heavy Armor= survivability+active sustain+better healing/support
>con: You have no penetration, far less dmg, and you're way slower.

2) Medium Armor= physical dmg+speed+passive sustain
>con: you are generally pretty squishy, when someone can catch you

3) Light Armor= Mag dmg+speed (Next Update!)+passive sustain+penetration
>con: you are generally pretty squishy, if your opponent survives your burst combo from 28m away long enough to land a hit


There are balances and counters to each armor type. Why on earth did sorcs think they were entitled to all that light armor offers, plus a nearly impenetrable set of shields, plus an extra bar? We're not being nerfed guys...we're being brought down to the level of the rest of the mortals who have been playing quite successfully without all of that.

Yeah, it sucks, and yeah, I'll miss how incredibly easy it was to rack up insane amounts of kills, but it's not the end of the class. It's the beginning of a new way to look at the class and I am personally really interested to see what everyone comes up with once we all calm down. I'm already making plans...

Where is the Sorc damage in this equation then?

Arkangeloski

bardx86 wrote: »

Arkangeloski wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Wtf is "Adapt"?

Try to say that to the sexual harrasement victims: Hey, just adapt and next time imagine, that this is your boyfriend or husband and try to get pleasure!

Turelus wrote: »

How should they have adapted to sorc shields? Playing devil's advocate.

There is a plenty of oblivion damage sets.
L2p and "adapt" to sorcs - they were like that since beta and since then got only nerfs

Exactly you said it since beta... other classes have evolved some for better and some for worst sadly that is the mmo way of keeping things fresh, sorcs shield stacking was long over due, don't get me wrong it always been manageable in most cases but in other's it was completely annoying. But i will stand for sorcs on this whole casting time on shields it's ridiculous and can not go live period. Adding crit damage to shields it's more than enough, why? because now every magic class has to stack cp in to resistances crit mitigation and not just dump 100pts on bastion. or why not just slightly nerf bastion and make the shields a little softer and call it a day? cast time has to go... and that is coming from a guy that main a stamblade and dislike sorcs but knows when to draw that line... I hope u guys get a better deal

A honest NB? who knew, thanks brother.

Free damage is bad design even if it is 1 or two seconds...

qbit

KingMagaw wrote: »

Here is the simple gossip.


ZOS are frantic at finding a solution to performance issues. CP hurt the game on this issue big time and was a rushed band aid placed on VR levels and the draconian levelling system in place.

There are too many dynamic calculations in place and is straining the software now, hardware is irrelevant now as the bottleneck now is in the software/coding. Review the changes over the last 1 year leading up to now.

It has all been aimed at reducing dynamic calculations. Adding cast timers in, requiring heavy attacks now to slow down skill/skill/skill, deleting aspects like passive dodge chance, CP to NO CP tests which the results were not shared, that i seen anyway.


If you have 2 players. Player A has 1 CP in all trees and player B has 0. Both enter a fight. Player A will place more strain as there is more values been dynamically affected, calculated, adjusted, outputted. It is that simple, to my understanding anyway.


Expect more of these dirt changes, in the hope it promotes performance.



EDIT: I should add this shield nerf is so stupid. mSorc has only shield to mitigate incoming damage. Having it bashable with a cast time means you can easily take away the only defence they have. mSorc can roll dodge 2, max 3 times before out of stamina in a fight to mitigate damage if this change goes through while stamina users have vigor insta cast no interupt available, rally also and can roll dodge 10+ times in the same fight. How is this promoting balance i cannot fathom.

How to kill the majority of sorcs now:. Fear/stun. Survive until CD is off. Fear/stun sorc, survive until CD is off. Fear/stun and kill sorc cause they cant break free no stamina. Shields are not even in the equation here.

Just off the cuff, I would assess that many of their calculations can be done pre-fight and don’t often change. They should be collapsing many of these complex variables into constants that only change outside of combat when new gear is slotted or a level up takes place or a change to CP etc. You get what I’m saying.

I get what you’re saying, but you can’t engineer an MMO without fundamentally designing the codebase to work around hundreds of multiplies and divides per character per second. Hell, they can calculate the reciprocal for many of these divisors once and multiply by that. Would be much faster when actually executing the calculations on the CPU.

It’s asinine to assume they don’t already do optimizations like this.

Right, ZOS? You are optimizing this way, right?