Before you say "ADAPT"...

Arkangeloski

SilverWF wrote: »

Wtf is "Adapt"?

Try to say that to the sexual harrasement victims: Hey, just adapt and next time imagine, that this is your boyfriend or husband and try to get pleasure!

Turelus wrote: »

How should they have adapted to sorc shields? Playing devil's advocate.

There is a plenty of oblivion damage sets.
L2p and "adapt" to sorcs - they were like that since beta and since then got only nerfs

Exactly you said it since beta... other classes have evolved some for better and some for worst sadly that is the mmo way of keeping things fresh, sorcs shield stacking was long over due, don't get me wrong it always been manageable in most cases but in other's it was completely annoying. But i will stand for sorcs on this whole casting time on shields it's ridiculous and can not go live period. Adding crit damage to shields it's more than enough, why? because now every magic class has to stack cp in to resistances crit mitigation and not just dump 100pts on bastion. or why not just slightly nerf bastion and make the shields a little softer and call it a day? cast time has to go... and that is coming from a guy that main a stamblade and dislike sorcs but knows when to draw that line... I hope u guys get a better deal

Turelus

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

I know you know this, Turelus, so why be disingenuous about it? Unless you simply wanted the points to be reiterated for the benefit of those unaware. But I can assure you that those who still cry foul about Sorcs as of the WH update either lack the competence or the intellectual honesty to acknowledge these concepts.

Because when someone makes a thread with a single sentence statement, I expect them to add reasoning to that statement that others who are not well read or versed can understand.
Otherwise it's just a statement and means nothing.

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

How should they have adapted to sorc shields? Playing devil's advocate.

Don’t you mean Daedra’s advocate?

touché

You know there were sets out there designed to kill sorcerers plus a cp tree dedicated to doing more dmg to shields. That is your counter play

Right but every time I've ever pointed out there are specific counters in the game to kill Nightblades I got told how someone shouldn't have to build to kill a specific class.

But there isnt a set out there that goes through roll dodge is my point

True, and shield breaker was a band-aid attempt at a wider problem.
This is one of my issues with ZOS and their development, they try to fix issues with weird new mechanics or making content out of the issue rather than just addressing the actual cause.

I would hope, if shields are to change that counters for shields added in the past are addressed. That said though, if someone wants to build specifically to kill sorcs and lose out on benefits when fighting every other class that's probably a somewhat balanced choice. The same if someone was to go full Nightblade hunting build etc.

Apache_Kid

ZOS_MikaS wrote: »

We have recently removed some inappropriate commentary from this thread. Please ensure that this discussion doesn't go off the rails. Thanks for your understanding.

Your patch notes are inappropriate. Please ensure the devs do not go off the rails. Thank you for your understanding.

srfrogg23

TheYKcid wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

How should they have adapted to sorc shields? Playing devil's advocate.

Why play devil's advocate on a topic that's already been explained to death?

Literally all you have to do is deal damage. Weaves, spammables, one or two layered DoTs and you'll be burning through shields as fast as they can be cast. And pressuring costs far less resources than shield-spamming does, so it trades in your favour.

Burst + CC once shields are down and the sorc with their 22k HP and 9k resistances is toast.

Getting bursted before you can secure the kill? Stop being a potato and learn to recognise the purple cloud of Curse and the bright-ass flash of lightning that is Endless Fury—otherwise known as the most telegraphed combo in the game.

I know you know this, @Turelus, so why be disingenuous about it? Unless you simply wanted the points to be reiterated for the benefit of those unaware. But I can assure you that those who still cry foul about Sorcs as of the WH update either lack the competence or the intellectual honesty to acknowledge these concepts.

That sounds almost too easy. Why bother using shields at all if the sorc is just draining resources to prolong the inevitable?

Sounds like sorcs would be better off with more armor/hp and hanging around a healer than trying to use shields.

Troneon

TheInfernalRage wrote: »

Know that it is precisely your inability to adapt against Sorc players that is being sided by the current PTS.

Most of what is said was BS because you forgot to mention by spamming shields sorcs can go full offensive all the time without sacrificing any defense/mobility....meaning they can keep pressure up 100% of the time and still be tanky as hell with insane damage...and mobility...

That now has changed. Enjoy

Ozazz

TheInfernalRage wrote: »

Know that it is precisely your inability to adapt against Sorc players that is being sided by the current PTS.

LMFAO Right on, its been a l2p issue in the entirety of this game but lets not mention that, Its not the popular argument. @TheInfernalRage

Apache_Kid

Troneon wrote: »

TheInfernalRage wrote: »

Know that it is precisely your inability to adapt against Sorc players that is being sided by the current PTS.

Most of what is said was BS because you forgot to mention by spamming shields sorcs can go full offensive all the time without sacrificing any defense/mobility....meaning they can keep pressure up 100% of the time and still be tanky as hell with insane damage...and mobility...

That now has changed. Enjoy

@Troneon

Oh you mean like your templar being able to be scaled for maximum damage and heals at the same time? To have the ability to be tanky in heavy armor while applying insane amounts of pressure just to let your health drop to 20% as you use a burst heal to completely restore your entire health bar? Maybe we should add a 1 second cast time to that Breath/honor the dead. Why should you be able to use your defenses and survival tools on demand?

Troneon

Apache_Kid wrote: »

To have the ability to be tanky in heavy armor while applying insane amounts of pressure

You must not play templar much....you can't have both like sorc....

With Templar if we go insane tanky/heavy armor and defensive our damage AND mobility sucks, even at full damage spec our damage SUCKS compared to other classes....in both pvp and pve....and pressure, most of our skills are channels or cast time instead of instant cast....? You are kidding right? Our CC sucks since it got nerfed to hell, our debuffs got nerfed to hell, our heals got nerfed to hell our damage has always been bad, what pressure can a Templar put on a Sorc with insane mobility, damage, cc and be tanky as hell with great burst and pressure....

If we go full tanky we can't kill you but can survive, we also have no mobility and lack cc/debuffs so pressure is non existent, if we go hybrid build we die everytime due to not having enough tank and still having crap damage / burst, if we go full damage we die before even applying any pressure against shield spam....as sorc has cc/mobility/damage and tanky all in one neat little build..not to mention can just zip away anytime they start losing and come back full strength again seconds later.....

I think it is hilarious sorcs cry about this when Templar has been nerfed into the ground since LAUNCH NON STOP....

So I REPEAT what I said about why these changes were needed on sorcs...

Troneon wrote: »

TheInfernalRage wrote: »

Know that it is precisely your inability to adapt against Sorc players that is being sided by the current PTS.

Most of what is said was BS because you forgot to mention by spamming shields sorcs can go full offensive all the time without sacrificing any defense/mobility....meaning they can keep pressure up 100% of the time and still be tanky as hell with insane damage...and mobility...

That now has changed. Enjoy

Sheezabeast

The number one thing in pvp that’s been preached since beta is “Dont chase the Sorc” ....I wonder why...

visionality

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

I'd really like someone, anyone, to explain how they picture magsorcs playing after this patch (obv. the shield change impacts other specs as well, but you can absolutely build light armor versions of every other class without using harness).

I know of 2 non-shield sorc light armor builds, ever. One was a potato, the other was a weird build designed around group utility. Neither were particularly good, or viable for solo/small group PvP.

Are magsorcs expected to disengage every 5-10 seconds now? Are they supposed to just win fights inside of one shield window? Is the play to stack mutagen, maybe a couple healing springs, healing ward, and only cast shields when you have CC immunity (and not the last 1 second of immunity, because you'll be spam bashed and lose it anyway).

There certainly were patches when shield stacking was borderline overpowered. Sorcs last patch (rightly) got a lot of hate for a brain-dead easy burst combo that crutched on unblockable, undodgeable CC. But this change is just a gutting. I don't get it.

Am I missing something? Is there a viable playstyle for light armor magsorc next patch if these changes go live?

No, there is not. Light armor is dead.

ADDED: There is a small chance that magblades still find it viable as they have access to an instantcast survival skill called cloak. But actually I expect most of them going heavy, too - if they havent been on heavy armor to begin with.

Apache_Kid

Troneon wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

To have the ability to be tanky in heavy armor while applying insane amounts of pressure

You must not play templar much....you can't have both like sorc....

With Templar if we go insane tanky/heavy armor and defensive our damage AND mobility sucks, even at full damage spec our damage SUCKS compared to other classes....in both pvp and pve....

So I REPEAT what I said about why these changes were needed on sorcs...

Troneon wrote: »

TheInfernalRage wrote: »

Know that it is precisely your inability to adapt against Sorc players that is being sided by the current PTS.

Most of what is said was BS because you forgot to mention by spamming shields sorcs can go full offensive all the time without sacrificing any defense/mobility....meaning they can keep pressure up 100% of the time and still be tanky as hell with insane damage...and mobility...

That now has changed. Enjoy

But you can be spec'd for full strength burst heals and damage at the same time. and you can do it in heavy armor. See I play both magicka templar and magicka sorc. You only play 1. You are misinformed, you don't know how a mag sorc works because you would not be saying they have insane damage and mobility. Doing big damage on a magicka templar is easy and its easy to keep the pressure up. Magsorc has to line up a carefully timed burst combo while magplar casts purifying and spams sweeps til burning light procs. Your takes are bad.

Trinity_Is_My_Name

This patch on the PTS is very worrisome to me. I play all classes and I do mean all classes. I have one stamina and one magicka of each class in all roles including Healers, Tanks and DPS.

I don't mind the changes on the PTS much with one exception and that is the cast time for damage shields. Yes, I have tried it on the PTS on both my Magicka Sorc and on one of my Templars. It is clunky, slow, looks like a bowel movement going on and ruins fast paced game play.

I have two accounts with 15 characters on the main acct close to 1200 CP and my alt acct has 8 characters at 732 CP. I love this game. I really do. I have two subscriptions and five or six houses on each account. But this shield cast time has me flustered and angry at whomever came up with it being a good idea and actually implementing it.

So last night I logged off early and decided to go look at other MMO's. I don't know what I am going to do but if this goes live I consider myself to have two options: 1) Continue playing ESO on my characters that don't use damage shields hoping the cast time is removed in the future or 2) Cancel my subs and go find another MMO to play.

This isn't a threat or ruse it's just me being wrought with a decision I have to make if this cast time makes it to the Live server. I just cannot play my Magicka classes with a cast time on damage shields. The game play in my opinion is ruined for those characters.

I never thought a change such as this would ever even be considered. And here we are today. So I ask myself "What will they do next that will damage this game even more?"

Yes, I know, some will say "Adapt" and all that other stuff and "L2P". I get it, I do. It just isn't the way I want to play this game.

Let's hope ZOS is paying attention to what everyone has to say about this change. Have a good day everyone.

TheYKcid

srfrogg23 wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

How should they have adapted to sorc shields? Playing devil's advocate.

Why play devil's advocate on a topic that's already been explained to death?

Literally all you have to do is deal damage. Weaves, spammables, one or two layered DoTs and you'll be burning through shields as fast as they can be cast. And pressuring costs far less resources than shield-spamming does, so it trades in your favour.

Burst + CC once shields are down and the sorc with their 22k HP and 9k resistances is toast.

Getting bursted before you can secure the kill? Stop being a potato and learn to recognise the purple cloud of Curse and the bright-ass flash of lightning that is Endless Fury—otherwise known as the most telegraphed combo in the game.

I know you know this, @Turelus, so why be disingenuous about it? Unless you simply wanted the points to be reiterated for the benefit of those unaware. But I can assure you that those who still cry foul about Sorcs as of the WH update either lack the competence or the intellectual honesty to acknowledge these concepts.

That sounds almost too easy. Why bother using shields at all if the sorc is just draining resources to prolong the inevitable?

Sounds like sorcs would be better off with more armor/hp and hanging around a healer than trying to use shields.

It sounds almost too easy because it is.

I infer from your wording that you don't play a Sorc (I don't mean this in any condescending way, and please correct me if I'm wrong), so I'd highly recommend you make one and experience this for yourself on the live game. You'll quickly learn that a competent and properly-built foe will force you onto the defensive for nearly the entirety of the fight. There's a reason many Sorcs wear 2 full sustain sets despite the hit to your damage—shield spamming is very costly, and you need to sustain it until such a time that you find a burst opportunity.

And even then, if your target builds beyond a certain tankiness threshold (as many meta stam brawlers do), your burst simply won't be enough to finish them off, nor do you have any way to prevent their subsequent recovery since Sorc has no meaningful pressure whatsoever. Some fights are lost as soon as they begin unless your opponent severely slips-up.

Sorc is, however, a very efficient potato killer, which is the root of most of the complaints against them. Bad players tend to be unable are identify the relevant telegraphs, and thus get blown up. They also spam random abilities without any coherent concept of pressure into burst, and therefore can't control the Sorc.

The alternatives you mentioned? Heavy armor is simply not an option for Sorcs (the way it is for magblades) as Sorcs have poor innate sustain and damage compared to their NB counterparts, making the light armor passives mandatory.

And as for surviving by sticking with a healer? That quite literally applies to every other class, except that said classes also have the option to viably play solo should they choose. If Sorc becomes the only class that needs dedicated babysitting to survive, well... that in itself should clue you in on the state of balance.

But like I said, don't take my word or anyone else's for it. Make a Sorc and see for yourself.

@srfrogg23

Apache_Kid

TheYKcid wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

How should they have adapted to sorc shields? Playing devil's advocate.

Why play devil's advocate on a topic that's already been explained to death?

Literally all you have to do is deal damage. Weaves, spammables, one or two layered DoTs and you'll be burning through shields as fast as they can be cast. And pressuring costs far less resources than shield-spamming does, so it trades in your favour.

Burst + CC once shields are down and the sorc with their 22k HP and 9k resistances is toast.

Getting bursted before you can secure the kill? Stop being a potato and learn to recognise the purple cloud of Curse and the bright-ass flash of lightning that is Endless Fury—otherwise known as the most telegraphed combo in the game.

I know you know this, @Turelus, so why be disingenuous about it? Unless you simply wanted the points to be reiterated for the benefit of those unaware. But I can assure you that those who still cry foul about Sorcs as of the WH update either lack the competence or the intellectual honesty to acknowledge these concepts.

That sounds almost too easy. Why bother using shields at all if the sorc is just draining resources to prolong the inevitable?

Sounds like sorcs would be better off with more armor/hp and hanging around a healer than trying to use shields.

It sounds almost too easy because it is.

I infer from your wording that you don't play a Sorc (I don't mean this in any condescending way, and please correct me if I'm wrong), so I'd highly recommend you make one and experience this for yourself on the live game. You'll quickly learn that a competent and properly-built foe will force you onto the defensive for nearly the entirety of the fight. There's a reason many Sorcs wear 2 full sustain sets despite the hit to your damage—shield spamming is very costly, and you need to sustain it until such a time that you find a burst opportunity.

And even then, if your target builds beyond a certain tankiness threshold (as many meta stam brawlers do), your burst simply won't be enough to finish them off, nor do you have any way to prevent their subsequent recovery since Sorc has no meaningful pressure whatsoever. Some fights are lost as soon as they begin unless your opponent severely slips-up.

Sorc is, however, a very efficient potato killer, which is the root of most of the complaints against them. Bad players tend to be unable are identify the relevant telegraphs, and thus get blown up. They also spam random abilities without any coherent concept of pressure into burst, and therefore can't control the Sorc.

Heavy armor is simply out of the equation for Sorcs, the way it is for magblades, as Sorcs has poor innate sustain and damage compared to their NB counterparts.

And as for surviving by sticking with a healer? That quite literally applies to every other class, except that said classes also have the option to play solo. If Sorcs become the only class that need babysitting to survive... well, that in itself should clue you in on the state of balance.

But like I said, don't take my word or anyone else's for it. Make a Sorc and see for yourself.

@srfrogg23

Well-said. It is easy to spot people who aren't very good at PvP because they are the ones who complain about not being able to properly deal with and kill mag sorcs. Magsorc is the ultimate potato peeler.

JackAshes

Although this nerf was directed at all shield casters it’s primary target was MagSorc. ZOS always nerfs with the hammer instead of the scalpel. The crit changes and spell and phy resist change would have been a scalpel move. Adding on the cast time was a Thor level unfettered might Hammer smash. Come on ZOS revert it. Do it early in PTS and not have a copy of the morrowind patch. Tired of looking at my friends list from a year ago and see all the no log ins from friends I made before Morrowind! Do it! Do it Now!

antihero727

ExcaliburESO wrote: »

That was unfortunate do to that by coincidence after few nerfing patches on other classes most ppl rerolled sorcerer because of the skill lvl it required to play, and also just by coincidence mag sorc is the class that wins bgs with passive executes duels do to pet and shieldstacking and general cyrodil do to shieldstacking streak and sustain with burst potential. And everyone is surprised that this nerf hammer was coming. Everyone knew it, posts about sorcs superiority where mainstream threads for last 5 months. Obviously the hammer of justice was coming for them. Now u can do what u do best reroll or leave.

I have been a sorc since day 1. I didn’t just go meta. Your logic is salty and biased. Go back to being op on your NB because your opinion is garbage.

Tommy_The_Gun

TheInfernalRage wrote: »

Know that it is precisely your inability to adapt against Sorc players that is being sided by the current PTS.

If you are really curious OP - at some point I simply "adapted" by tweaking my build a little to have more magicka and I sloted purge... no more delayed dmg combo

Katahdin

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

I know you know this, Turelus, so why be disingenuous about it? Unless you simply wanted the points to be reiterated for the benefit of those unaware. But I can assure you that those who still cry foul about Sorcs as of the WH update either lack the competence or the intellectual honesty to acknowledge these concepts.

Because when someone makes a thread with a single sentence statement, I expect them to add reasoning to that statement that others who are not well read or versed can understand.
Otherwise it's just a statement and means nothing.

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

How should they have adapted to sorc shields? Playing devil's advocate.

Don’t you mean Daedra’s advocate?

touché

You know there were sets out there designed to kill sorcerers plus a cp tree dedicated to doing more dmg to shields. That is your counter play

Right but every time I've ever pointed out there are specific counters in the game to kill Nightblades I got told how someone shouldn't have to build to kill a specific class.

But there isnt a set out there that goes through roll dodge is my point

But there are tons of roots, snares, freezes, and knockdowns that counter roll dodge

DeadlyRecluse

Comparing shields and dodge roll isn't a great road to go down. They're very, very different things and countered in very different ways. For starters, tons of abilities go through dodge roll (Including some set procs that deal more DPS than shield breaker), no abilities go through shields. They just aren't comparable defenses.

Apache_Kid

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Comparing shields and dodge roll isn't a great road to go down. They're very, very different things and countered in very different ways. For starters, tons of abilities go through dodge roll (Including some set procs that deal more DPS than shield breaker), no abilities go through shields. They just aren't comparable defenses.

Oblivion damage goes through shields though. While not being an ability it can have an equally devastating effect. The point is that there was already ample counters to both and ZoS went off the rails.

HalloweenWeed

I've long been bothered by the lack of need for a healer in groups of 4. Sorcs have healing so nobody seemed to care if they delve without a healer. I made a MagPlar many years ago and he has been unneeded (up until now) because players just don't care whether or not they have a dedicated healer in the group. Too bad he was an Altmer and thus wouldn't be a great StamPlar. I feel this will be good for that alt for me, but conversely my MagSorc will not be playing. I do agree that the Sorcs used to be OP (no more).

DeadlyRecluse

Apache_Kid wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Comparing shields and dodge roll isn't a great road to go down. They're very, very different things and countered in very different ways. For starters, tons of abilities go through dodge roll (Including some set procs that deal more DPS than shield breaker), no abilities go through shields. They just aren't comparable defenses.

Oblivion damage goes through shields though. While not being an ability it can have an equally devastating effect. The point is that there was already ample counters to both and ZoS went off the rails.

yeah, exactly my point--DIFFERENT things go through both. They both have extremely different counters--asking what the dodgeroll equivalent of shieldbreaker is is just silliness and comparing them is just pointless (and yeah, ZoS is off the rails and in the ditch on the shield change).

srfrogg23

TheYKcid wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

How should they have adapted to sorc shields? Playing devil's advocate.

Why play devil's advocate on a topic that's already been explained to death?

Literally all you have to do is deal damage. Weaves, spammables, one or two layered DoTs and you'll be burning through shields as fast as they can be cast. And pressuring costs far less resources than shield-spamming does, so it trades in your favour.

Burst + CC once shields are down and the sorc with their 22k HP and 9k resistances is toast.

Getting bursted before you can secure the kill? Stop being a potato and learn to recognise the purple cloud of Curse and the bright-ass flash of lightning that is Endless Fury—otherwise known as the most telegraphed combo in the game.

I know you know this, @Turelus, so why be disingenuous about it? Unless you simply wanted the points to be reiterated for the benefit of those unaware. But I can assure you that those who still cry foul about Sorcs as of the WH update either lack the competence or the intellectual honesty to acknowledge these concepts.

That sounds almost too easy. Why bother using shields at all if the sorc is just draining resources to prolong the inevitable?

Sounds like sorcs would be better off with more armor/hp and hanging around a healer than trying to use shields.

It sounds almost too easy because it is.

I infer from your wording that you don't play a Sorc (I don't mean this in any condescending way, and please correct me if I'm wrong), so I'd highly recommend you make one and experience this for yourself on the live game. You'll quickly learn that a competent and properly-built foe will force you onto the defensive for nearly the entirety of the fight. There's a reason many Sorcs wear 2 full sustain sets despite the hit to your damage—shield spamming is very costly, and you need to sustain it until such a time that you find a burst opportunity.

And even then, if your target builds beyond a certain tankiness threshold (as many meta stam brawlers do), your burst simply won't be enough to finish them off, nor do you have any way to prevent their subsequent recovery since Sorc has no meaningful pressure whatsoever. Some fights are lost as soon as they begin unless your opponent severely slips-up.

Sorc is, however, a very efficient potato killer, which is the root of most of the complaints against them. Bad players tend to be unable are identify the relevant telegraphs, and thus get blown up. They also spam random abilities without any coherent concept of pressure into burst, and therefore can't control the Sorc.

The alternatives you mentioned? Heavy armor is simply not an option for Sorcs (the way it is for magblades) as Sorcs have poor innate sustain and damage compared to their NB counterparts, making the light armor passives mandatory.

And as for surviving by sticking with a healer? That quite literally applies to every other class, except that said classes also have the option to viably play solo should they choose. If Sorc becomes the only class that needs dedicated babysitting to survive, well... that in itself should clue you in on the state of balance.

But like I said, don't take my word or anyone else's for it. Make a Sorc and see for yourself.

@srfrogg23

Lol, I think I'm going past on sorc pvp. Spamming shields doesn't sound enjoyable in the slightest. I'd rather take an offensive approach.

Just keep in mind that class balance is always changing. If it seems like sorcs were hit too hard by this change, they'll find a way to give you all more survivability. They might even roll back the change if it's not working as intended.

antihero727

srfrogg23 wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

How should they have adapted to sorc shields? Playing devil's advocate.

Why play devil's advocate on a topic that's already been explained to death?

Literally all you have to do is deal damage. Weaves, spammables, one or two layered DoTs and you'll be burning through shields as fast as they can be cast. And pressuring costs far less resources than shield-spamming does, so it trades in your favour.

Burst + CC once shields are down and the sorc with their 22k HP and 9k resistances is toast.

Getting bursted before you can secure the kill? Stop being a potato and learn to recognise the purple cloud of Curse and the bright-ass flash of lightning that is Endless Fury—otherwise known as the most telegraphed combo in the game.

I know you know this, @Turelus, so why be disingenuous about it? Unless you simply wanted the points to be reiterated for the benefit of those unaware. But I can assure you that those who still cry foul about Sorcs as of the WH update either lack the competence or the intellectual honesty to acknowledge these concepts.

That sounds almost too easy. Why bother using shields at all if the sorc is just draining resources to prolong the inevitable?

Sounds like sorcs would be better off with more armor/hp and hanging around a healer than trying to use shields.

It sounds almost too easy because it is.

I infer from your wording that you don't play a Sorc (I don't mean this in any condescending way, and please correct me if I'm wrong), so I'd highly recommend you make one and experience this for yourself on the live game. You'll quickly learn that a competent and properly-built foe will force you onto the defensive for nearly the entirety of the fight. There's a reason many Sorcs wear 2 full sustain sets despite the hit to your damage—shield spamming is very costly, and you need to sustain it until such a time that you find a burst opportunity.

And even then, if your target builds beyond a certain tankiness threshold (as many meta stam brawlers do), your burst simply won't be enough to finish them off, nor do you have any way to prevent their subsequent recovery since Sorc has no meaningful pressure whatsoever. Some fights are lost as soon as they begin unless your opponent severely slips-up.

Sorc is, however, a very efficient potato killer, which is the root of most of the complaints against them. Bad players tend to be unable are identify the relevant telegraphs, and thus get blown up. They also spam random abilities without any coherent concept of pressure into burst, and therefore can't control the Sorc.

The alternatives you mentioned? Heavy armor is simply not an option for Sorcs (the way it is for magblades) as Sorcs have poor innate sustain and damage compared to their NB counterparts, making the light armor passives mandatory.

And as for surviving by sticking with a healer? That quite literally applies to every other class, except that said classes also have the option to viably play solo should they choose. If Sorc becomes the only class that needs dedicated babysitting to survive, well... that in itself should clue you in on the state of balance.

But like I said, don't take my word or anyone else's for it. Make a Sorc and see for yourself.

@srfrogg23

Lol, I think I'm going past on sorc pvp. Spamming shields doesn't sound enjoyable in the slightest. I'd rather take an offensive approach.

Just keep in mind that class balance is always changing. If it seems like sorcs were hit too hard by this change, they'll find a way to give you all more survivability. They might even roll back the change if it's not working as intended.

It’s working as intended if they wanted to nerf subscriber count.

Turelus

If you could remove my tag from that quote chain it would be appreciated.
I keep coming back thinking someone is answering me.

DorianDragonRaze

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

How should they have adapted to sorc shields? Playing devil's advocate.

Don’t you mean Daedra’s advocate?

Not all Daedra are devils.

KingMagaw

Here is the simple gossip.


ZOS are frantic at finding a solution to performance issues. CP hurt the game on this issue big time and was a rushed band aid placed on VR levels and the draconian levelling system in place.

There are too many dynamic calculations in place and is straining the software now, hardware is irrelevant now as the bottleneck now is in the software/coding. Review the changes over the last 1 year leading up to now.

It has all been aimed at reducing dynamic calculations. Adding cast timers in, requiring heavy attacks now to slow down skill/skill/skill, deleting aspects like passive dodge chance, CP to NO CP tests which the results were not shared, that i seen anyway.


If you have 2 players. Player A has 1 CP in all trees and player B has 0. Both enter a fight. Player A will place more strain as there is more values been dynamically affected, calculated, adjusted, outputted. It is that simple, to my understanding anyway.


Expect more of these dirt changes, in the hope it promotes performance.



EDIT: I should add this shield nerf is so stupid. mSorc has only shield to mitigate incoming damage. Having it bashable with a cast time means you can easily take away the only defence they have. mSorc can roll dodge 2, max 3 times before out of stamina in a fight to mitigate damage if this change goes through while stamina users have vigor insta cast no interupt available, rally also and can roll dodge 10+ times in the same fight. How is this promoting balance i cannot fathom.

How to kill the majority of sorcs now:. Fear/stun. Survive until CD is off. Fear/stun sorc, survive until CD is off. Fear/stun and kill sorc cause they cant break free no stamina. Shields are not even in the equation here.

p00tx

Okay, I'm going to preface this by saying first that I don't get or like the shield changes (for selfish reasons), and I do not support this change. However, there is some sound reasoning when you think about it.

1) Heavy Armor= survivability+active sustain+better healing/support
>con: You have no penetration, far less dmg, and you're way slower.

2) Medium Armor= physical dmg+speed+passive sustain
>con: you are generally pretty squishy, when someone can catch you

3) Light Armor= Mag dmg+speed (Next Update!)+passive sustain+penetration
>con: you are generally pretty squishy, if your opponent survives your burst combo from 28m away long enough to land a hit


There are balances and counters to each armor type. Why on earth did sorcs think they were entitled to all that light armor offers, plus a nearly impenetrable set of shields, plus an extra bar? We're not being nerfed guys...we're being brought down to the level of the rest of the mortals who have been playing quite successfully without all of that.

Yeah, it sucks, and yeah, I'll miss how incredibly easy it was to rack up insane amounts of kills, but it's not the end of the class. It's the beginning of a new way to look at the class and I am personally really interested to see what everyone comes up with once we all calm down. I'm already making plans...

Doctordarkspawn

KingMagaw wrote: »

Here is the simple gossip.


ZOS are frantic at finding a solution to performance issues. CP hurt the game on this issue big time and was a rushed band aid placed on VR levels and the draconian levelling system in place.

There are too many dynamic calculations in place and is straining the software now, hardware is irrelevant now as the bottleneck now is in the software/coding. Review the changes over the last 1 year leading up to now.

It has all been aimed at reducing dynamic calculations. Adding cast timers in, requiring heavy attacks now to slow down skill/skill/skill, deleting aspects like passive dodge chance, CP to NO CP tests which the results were not shared, that i seen anyway.


If you have 2 players. Player A has 1 CP in all trees and player B has 0. Both enter a fight. Player A will place more strain as there is more values been dynamically affected, calculated, adjusted, outputted. It is that simple, to my understanding anyway.


Expect more of these dirt changes, in the hope it promotes performance.



EDIT: I should add this shield nerf is so stupid. mSorc has only shield to mitigate incoming damage. Having it bashable with a cast time means you can easily take away the only defence they have. mSorc can roll dodge 2, max 3 times before out of stamina in a fight to mitigate damage if this change goes through while stamina users have vigor insta cast no interupt available, rally also and can roll dodge 10+ times in the same fight. How is this promoting balance i cannot fathom.

How to kill the majority of sorcs now:. Fear/stun. Survive until CD is off. Fear/stun sorc, survive until CD is off. Fear/stun and kill sorc cause they cant break free no stamina. Shields are not even in the equation here.

If at any point in the following PTS cycle this change is reversed this kinda shoots this down.

Then again, that's mostly a PVP problem.

Bowser