Comprehensive Feedback Thread on Blackrose Weapons

Masel

Hey!

I spend the evening yesterday to test these new weapons, and I got to the conclusion that I only see a few niche scenarios where a few of them they could be used over other weapons and sets. I'll go through them weapon by weapon and note why. Please post more feedback on them, I will use this thread to give them condesned fedback on all of these in our meeting next week.

Blackrose Two-hander:

While it's been stated that this is the favourite weapon for some of the devs, it is fairly weak. Not only is the radius quite small, it also is simply weaker than the master counterpart in every regard. With the master twohander, you get a shield, a bleed dot, can hit more enemies and do more damage against them. In PvP only a few classes use dizzying swing because they lack a good spammable alternative, and this weapon will not change this. In PvE, it is subpar due to all the reasons i listed above.

Blackrose Bow:

This one was interesting for me at first (combined with the range increase on scatter shot), but its functionality is again quite counterintuitive. Since the bleed dot is scaling with the damage it does, it does exactly the counterpart of what bleeds were designed to do: hit hard against high resistance enemies. This way, it does exactly the opposite: It kills enemies with low resistances fast from full range (since the damage of the initial hit is high against these), but doesn't do a lot against tanky enemies. It also increases the eficiency of the low risk high reward sniper playstye in pvp even more, since they can now snipe + scattershot you from full range and make sure their snipe hits you unguarded and have it apply a bleed dot on top of the poisoning. I see this being used, but not really in healthy way.

Blackrose Dual Wield:

The dual wield is quite bad. Yes, major protection is a potent buff, but three seconds is very short and will not save you from anything in pvp, since you have to actively use this skill. Blade cloak is an expensive skill, and basically spamming it every three seconds to keep the buff up drains your resources very very fast. In pve this weapon is obviously not gonna be used, since you'd be giving up quite a bit of damage for it and stamina has access to the aoe damage reduction through shuffle/elude now, which is more effective in terms of cost/benefit than blade cloak.

Blackrose Destruction staff:

I was excited when I saw this one, but the functionality completely kills it. Impulse is an aoe spammable for magicka classes. Well, spamming it with this weapon active will make the weapon do nothing. The first dot tick comes after three seconds, and then ticks every other three seconds for three ticks in total. Not only is that a bad dot design (since dots that hardly ever tick don't proc things, they are likely tobe cleansed before they do damage etc.), it also doesnt add up with any rotation in pve. EVERY magicka rotation is 8 seconds due tt elemental blockade, and performing the rotation will make you miss out on the last dot tick of this weapon if you plan on using it as an additional DoT. If this weapon generated ticks faster (one per second, or even multiple smaller ones) it would add a nice DoT to magicka classes that you can use to get more elemental damage in. The way it is now is underperforming and I don't see this being used, not even in trash mobs since, as pointed out before, you can NOT spam impulse and get damage from the DoTs.

Blackrose Restoration Staff:

I know it was designed for pve, but this weapon is not gonna be used in PvE. Master and Asylum Restoration Staff would outperform this basically anywhere, and even if they weren'T there, healers use olorime restos now. It is a PvP weapon for magicka classes that use healing ward as an emergency heal+shield, simple as that. I see this being used on builds, so this one is fine as it is.

Blackrose One-handed and Shield:

This one could be used on stamina builds in PvP (and one 4th Boss vHoF ), but again, I don't see it outperforming other setups. The reduced cost on shield charge is fine, but then limiting the next free skill to a one-hand and shield skill is very restrictive. It also forces you to slot shield charge AND another one-hand and shield ability, which many builds don't do, and will not do only for this weapon to work.

Update: I noticed that the additional bonuses are 2 piece bonuses, not 1 piece. So you can't even combine two of the 1 handed ones to get something out...


Cheers,

Masel

TBois

Does the bleed from the bow proc on blocking or cc immune targets? The heal from draining shot does not. Also I would like to note (per your criticism) high resistance targets, which bleeds help counteract, are generally blocking a lot.

Masel

TBois wrote: »

Does the bleed from the bow proc on blocking or cc immune targets? The heal from draining shot does not. Also I would like to note (per your criticism) high resistance targets, which bleeds help counteract, are generally blocking a lot.

It applies yes, but will deal even less damage since the initial damage will be mitigated by blocking.

swirve

The feedback would be better if organised into clear PvE and PvP considerations / sections.

Sadly most feedback and balancing suggestions come with just a PvP angle and to suit a players style.

Banana

I do like the look of that resto.

ccfeeling

Thanks your effort !

ChefZero

This restro is BiS on every backbar restro in solo and small scale PvP. Time to get a new PvP vendor eith arena weapons.

lassitershawn

Resto is best by far. If the destro is to be useful the DoT needs to be able to crit (not sure if it can or not). If it can, this is probably a pretty strong DoT to add into a rotation where good cleave is necessary and significant. Problem being of course that you drop your front bar 5pc for it -.-. As for S/B, it is terrible and ZoS has a terrible track record with unique S/B weapons.

Liofa

Except Resto, these weapons are so bad, ZOS decided to give them another stat bonus to make them look good while keeping other weapons same. That's all I got to say.

Masel

Liofa wrote: »

Except Resto, these weapons are so bad, ZOS decided to give them another stat bonus to make them look good while keeping other weapons same. That's all I got to say.

Yeah I'm kinda bummed too. I really thought we'd get 1pc bonuses on the old weapons, but nope

Alcast

Not implementing 1 piece bonus on other ability altering weapons is just so freaking lazy lmfao.

Aliyavana

Blackrose 2h should affect all enemies in your targets radius. Dizzying swing is the most counterable skill and should be rewarded.

RaptorRodeoGod

How do you think the bow would do on bow/bow PvE builds? Does the dot do enough damage to slot the weapon and skill in PvE situations?

Additionally, I'm not really surprised with the DW set, blade cloak is a weird skill to add flavor to. Hopefully a future DW set that buffs shrouded daggers knocks my socks off.

DPShiro

Alcast wrote: »

Not implementing 1 piece bonus on other ability altering weapons is just so freaking lazy lmfao.

This^^

Masel

Alcast wrote: »

Not implementing 1 piece bonus on other ability altering weapons is just so freaking lazy lmfao.

The Blackrose stats are 2 piece bonuses, you can't even combine them

Aliyavana

pretty important feedback here

Avran_Sylt

I'd love to see the Uppercut one reward just standing still and spamming Uppercut.

Part of the "Rooted Swing" Set.

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Uppercut gains 10% more damage after each cast, to a maximum of 50%. Moving resets this bonus.

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Could prolly make it more thematic with some of the local flora.

Likely make it good for certain PvE content (especially the old dungeons where the bosses are static), and niche in PvP.

A good way to visually indicate the Buff on Uppercut would be to make the Weapon steadily glow brighter and brighter based on the % Damage bonus.

IAVITNI

For the 2h, could they just make it so 70% off the damage is dealt instantly on cast and the Empower/Stun is granted after the full cast duration along with an additional 40% damage after the full channel? This would make the skill much more reliable in PvP and still be a 10% damage boost in both PvE and PvP.

Nox_Noir

Another very dissapointing collection for the useless arena weapon pile.
I had high hopes for at least a few to be useful, particularly the Dualwield ones so there would finally be an alternative to Master axes for backbar-set builds, but the DW turned out to be the weakest of the bunch lmao.

These weapon effects are designed so out of touch with reality, that even if the numbers on them were tweaked to make em stronger, most of them would still be too niche for anyone to ever use.

And the final disappointment is that the 2nd bonus is indeed part of the 2-piece, and also other Arena weapons still didn't get a 2-piece update. So we can't even combine different ones to at least get the first piece bonus as set-filler items.

There will be no incentive to farm Blackrose prison at all.

Toc de Malsvi

I like the idea behind the bow one, but it isn't very effective against high resistance targets as stated above. I think they may have been trying to get away from flat ticks, but did not fully consider how this would play out.

Lord_Eomer

swirve wrote: »

The feedback would be better if organised into clear PvE and PvP considerations / sections.

Sadly most feedback and balancing suggestions come with just a PvP angle and to suit a players style.

Do you think any of Blackrose weapon deserve to be used in PVE? Currently weapons are two weaker to drop a monster set.

aeowulf

re: Blackrose One-handed and Shield

I'm thinking this might pair well with Tormentor set and heroic slash...

What's the minimum distance you need to be away from something you 'charge' ? About 3-4m if i remember correctly - will pair very nicely with the increased range on melee attacks DK's are about to get passively

Strider__Roshin

Before this patch I thought the resto was OP because of how strong damage shields are, but now I think it's perfectly balanced.

You made a valid point about the bow that I didn't consider. Increasing the percentage from 40% to 60% would be the best route.

My reasoning? I figured out what the strength of the bleed should be based on tool tip, then calculated how it would be affected against 25k resistance - 5280 (major fracture), then increased the % until I got a similar number to the 40% based on tool tip.

Joy_Division

I came to pretty much the same conclusions as the OP.

The dual wield is particualry bad, just like the Asylum dual wield and the overnefed Maelstrom dual wield. Why can;t ZOS make these at least decent? All the arena bows that have come out are quite useful.

And 1 piece bonus on older weps please.

Tryxus

That Resto Staff with Naga Shaman

Chilly-McFreeze

Stupid question: does shield charge also effect the ultimate?

ezio45

Ya im pretty disappointed with the destro staff honestly, I see maybe using this on my pvp magblade but even that idk about

problem is impulse is not the greatest skill, has a nice debuff for pvp but in pve the debuff doesnt apply to most things of importance. I mean reducing a trial bosses health by 25% would be broken. Without the debuff tho there is 0 reason to run this over force pulse

ChefZero

Daus wrote: »

Before this patch I thought the resto was OP because of how strong damage shields are, but now I think it's perfectly balanced.

Can you please explain this to me? I don't understand it. When do you think it has been negatively affected and what has that exactly to do with the Major Vitality proc?

Roger_kun

There is a way to change the skill of the staff of destruction so that it suits everyone!

Now the DOT of the black rose staff ticks every 3 seconds, causing 1111 damage to each element. This is not very convenient, because rotation with an 8 second step skips the last tick of the DOT.

Why not take a 1 second step that will cause 1111 damage to each element in turn? The first second - 1111 fire damage, the second - 1111 electricity damage, the third - 1111 cold damage. Then we start all over again: fire - lightning - cold.
This would suit both professional players with dynamic rotation, and beginners who would miss the last tick of the DOT

Sorry for Google translate

OneKhajiitCrimeWave

I've been playing around with a few of these and the only on i was massively in love with was the resto. Get that healing ward and combat prayer combo up and it's sweet.

The destro i was running for more aoe while i levelled vamp because ZOS still haven’t fixed the vamp not being levelled issue on PTS... the penetration on the perfected is nice but in PvP as a stave only set i'm probably going Master's destro.

The bow in PvP may find strong use with bow gankers or maybe a few niche builds.

Not had much of a play yet with the others. With that 2H though.... most people are running swift and/or dodging in and out. Chances are y'all ain't landing the hit.

AceAegis

I would like it if the weapons changed slightly to give better bonuses.
Radial Uppercut -> Swift Uppercut = Uppercut deals its damage instantly at a higher stamina cost

Gallant Charge = Reduces cost of shield... ... reduces cost of your next stamina ability by 3000 stamina

Spectral Cloak = Blade cloak grants major protection for half of its total duration

Razor shot = Scatter shot applies a bleed ... ... for 8 seconds that returns the damage done as health to you

Wild Impulse = Reduce cost by 10 percent increase damage by 25 percent

Mender's Ward = as is

Please give us Perfected vma/ master weps