Upcoming New and Imbalanced Cyrodiil Map Changes (Update 20/Murkmire)

Gilvoth

Darkmage1337 wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

Map seems fine for me also I believe lots of us are ready for challenge

AD's new Outpost faces DC. DC's new Outpost faces EP.
EP's new Outpost faces EP.

Do you see the discrepancy now?

just want to answer to this that "NO" i do not think nor see anything unbalanced in that map, im sorry but i really think it looks fair and balanced and strategically correct and fair.

again i say "Hats off to the developer of this idea"
well done, and i cant wait to see it on Live.

Minnesinger

I have heard some new ideas how to trol..I mean have fun fights with an enemy. This s**t is really becoming like a whole new chapter in pvp.

LarsS

ZOS have tried to upgrade the outer keeps 8% extra AP for each. With next update you need the outer keeps to port to cities and new outposts. I think that will change the play spreading it out more.

There is a last way to cross the borders if all gates/bridges are down. A narrow bridge between ad and ep and tunnels at the other borders.

LegacyDM

Is the masonry and carpenters Union still on strike? I mean seriously they built entirely new structures but still refuse to add the doors back onto outposts? What an outrage.

Who cares about placement as long as it does what it is supposed to do, spread people out and fixes the lag!

Galarthor

Well given that AD had to live with 2 towns close to it's key keeps, while DC and EP were pretty much not threatened by the towns, I say: "Suck it up!"

TequilaFire

You have also have had the advantage those towns give, close armor vendors and quest hubs.
Not to mention AD still has the only ocean fishing spots!

Nord_Raseri

the only disadvantage I see with EPs new outpost being behind drake is that there's no travel line to that outpost if drake gets flagged. I understand that it's the same for ADs and DCs new outposts, but those outposts are ahead of their respective keeps, not behind like EPs. granted the map layout doesn't mean the opposing armies will gor for what ever is directly in front of them, but from the maps standpoint(hitting what comes first) dc hits brin outpost, ad travels to brin. ep hits dragon outpost, dc travels to dragon. because drake comes first- ad hits drake, ep cannot travel(unless by deadspawn). seeing the travel lines, it would have made more sense to have outpost connected to EPs gate, then to drakelowe, than from gate to drke, then outpost. FYI this is an unbiased perspective, as I am not EP.

idk

I would have to give this more thought but some of OPs logic is not logic at all.

People have been clamoring for Zos to do more for PvP and this is it. I expect Zos will consider reasonable and well worded thoughts on the matter which would not include the sky is falling type of replies. Unfortunately most are not interested in testing things out on the PTS which is why Zos cannot really test anything out for PvP.

SirDopey

Soooo AD is just going to be constantly bombing those bridges to stop EP incursions??

IZZEFlameLash

Bridge/Gate building simulator 2018

Darkmage1337

idk wrote: »

I would have to give this more thought but some of OPs logic is not logic at all.

People have been clamoring for Zos to do more for PvP and this is it. I expect Zos will consider reasonable and well worded thoughts on the matter which would not include the sky is falling type of replies. Unfortunately most are not interested in testing things out on the PTS which is why Zos cannot really test anything out for PvP.

I think you are confusing logic with opinion and analysis.

This picture does not lie.
AD gets 2 Outposts at DC's 3 Mile-Gates. (Nikel Outpost + Carmala Outpost)
DC gets 2 Outposts at EP's 3 Mile-Gates. (Bleaker's Outpost + Winter's Reach)
EP gets 1 Outpost at AD's 3 Bridges. (Sejanus Outpost)
That is the new Cyrodiil map. That is ZOS's current design logic. Not mine.

There is nothing illogical about my analysis of these Cyrodiil map changes, there is only your blatant misuse of diction.

Darkmage1337

NBrookus wrote: »

I just realized something -- are the X and ! icons to show "destroyed" and "under attack"?

Yes. The map icons will indicate if a Bridge/Gate is under-attack (!) or completely destroyed (X), as seen in the screenshot.
You, or anyone else interested, can watch the changes here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/304316055##
(skip to 21 minutes to 26 minutes in the video for the Cyrodiil PvP content section [the other parts are definitely worth watching, too, but not relevant to this thread's topic.])

Enkil

Galarthor wrote: »

Well given that AD had to live with 2 towns close to it's key keeps, while DC and EP were pretty much not threatened by the towns, I say: "Suck it up!"

How short-sighted. When AD is going on offense and wants to make inroads into EP territory, AD would be the ones benefiting from having an Outpost where Crops is instead of of easily flagged/retaken town. Balance is Balance.

It would require a little more work on the devs part to move the 3 flags and NPCs to Cheydinhal, but it needs to be done to make sure new changes are balanced in a PvP landscape. There have been minimal changes to Cyro since launch so it will be great to have some fresh additions, but if we've waited this long, we can wait a little longer for it to be done properly and not rushed.

Darkmage1337

Enkil wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

Well given that AD had to live with 2 towns close to it's key keeps, while DC and EP were pretty much not threatened by the towns, I say: "Suck it up!"

How short-sighted. When AD is going on offense and wants to make inroads into EP territory, AD would be the ones benefiting from having an Outpost where Crops is instead of of easily flagged/retaken town. Balance is Balance.

It would require a little more work no the devs part to move the 3 flags and NPCs to Cheydinhal, but it needs to be done to make sure new changes are balanced in a PvP landscape. There have been minimal changes to Cyro since launch so it will be great to have some fresh additions, but if we've waited this long, we can wait for it to be done properly and not rushed.

Exactly.

geonsocal

thanks for the post and sharing the link @Darkmage1337 ...

we've been asking for changes to the environment for quite a while...

thanks @Zos ...let's go fight at some new spots on the map, let's go blow up *** with our ballistas and trebuchets...

please though - also, figure out a way to not only increase pvp participation amongst the predominantly pve playerbase but, increase pop caps and stabilize game performance in cyrodiil...

we need more people to fulfill that initial vision of cyrodiil...we need to trust the game's performance...

Xsorus

I gotta say, this change is probably the best one they've done in a long time to spread out PvP in Cyrodiil.

This is going to force different paths in PVP which is nifty.

Darkmage1337

Xsorus wrote: »

I gotta say, this change is probably the best one they've done in a long time to spread out PvP in Cyrodiil.

This is going to force different paths in PVP which is nifty.

The destructible Bridges and Mile-Gates? Yeah, for sure. Very excited, can't wait!

Gilvoth

it looks perfectly balanced, the people saying "map is not balanced" i dont agree.

looks good and should stay as is, it's perfect.

Darkmage1337

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

i LOVE this!
man i hope this stays Exactly the same as that map is showing.
it's PERFECT!
made this man very happy

1.

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Darkmage1337 wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

Map seems fine for me also I believe lots of us are ready for challenge

AD's new Outpost faces DC. DC's new Outpost faces EP.
EP's new Outpost faces EP.

Do you see the discrepancy now?

just want to answer to this that "NO" i do not think nor see anything unbalanced in that map, im sorry but i really think it looks fair and balanced and strategically correct and fair.

again i say "Hats off to the developer of this idea"
well done, and i cant wait to see it on Live.

2.

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

it looks perfectly balanced, the people saying "map is not balanced" i dont agree.

looks good and should stay as is, it's perfect.

3.

--

Yeah.
Sure.
We heard you.
Now comment with actual substance and value, for once.
Or, QFT.
Thanks.

Minnesinger

Now that the map is changing they should add an outpost for each faction in IC too. Maybe a turn the bases so that you could capture them and even put scrolls in.

Gnozo

I like the changes even tho the placement of EP Outpost is kinda strange .

But with all these new changes they should actually increase population to make the map more active but we all know, this will kill the server.

Dreyloch

Darkmage1337 wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

I think the additions are good because it will definately bring more action to Drake/Dragon, which are already pretty good places to fight, and Bruma tends to not get enough action so maybe now it will.

DC has a strategic advantage on this map with Warden being so remote from enemy respawn, but AD/EP looks balanced. Sure, AD can snake Crops fast and head to Drake, but EP can now port from that outpost instead of the long long ride from Sej.

The new EP Outpost is attached to Drakelowe Keep, so if AD 'snakes Cropsford' and then immediately flags Drakelowe there-afterwards (which we know they will), then the new EP Outpost would be useless because EP players would not be able to port to the new Outpost to go defend Drakelowe since the Transit runs through Drakelowe itself. Again, a disadvantage. EP would still have to transit to Sejanus Outpost to get to Drakelowe (unless you blood-port to the new EP Outpost and go from there, but that would be more inconvenient and unrealistic to do every single time Drakelowe ever gets flagged, which would be more frequent, given how easy it is to take a Town [Cropsford] versus an Outpost [Sejanus]). Also, the new EP Outpost seems to be the same distance to Drakelowe as Sejanus already is.

Dyride wrote: »

The reason the outpost is going there is to prevent a huge dead spot in EPs southern territory. I get what you mean about Cheydinhal as being a better location but it had more buildings and the destroyed keep which I guess they didn't want to mess with.

What about the HUGE dead-spot on DC's side, between Fort Warden and Fort Dragonclaw? DC's new Outpost could have easily been inward-facing like EP's, and could have been placed between Fort Warden and Fort Dragonclaw on the left/west-side, instead -- because there is literally no objective and therefore no action in that huge gap there on DC's side.

--

Again, I am simply just thoroughly analyzing the map and making counter-points. No faction/campaign/server politics involved here. I am excited for all the new Cyrodiil re-vamp changes (bridges/mile-gates destructibility, 'goat-paths,' etc.)
BUT my ideal, perfect vision for Cyrodiil, with all of the new changes, would have simply been the addition to make Cheydinhal into EP's capturable-Town to match AD's Vlastrus and DC's Bruma (Cheydinhal, Vlastrus, and Bruma -- these 3 Towns point-to-point-to-point on the Cyrodiil map make a pretty equilateral-triangle -- just like any of the triangles mirrored and created between any given 3 Keeps/Forts/Castles.

Cropsford has plenty of flat-land around it for ZOS to have easily 'pasted' an Outpost placement over there somewhere nearby. Cropsford also should have never been a capturable-Town to begin with due to it being so close to the 3 Bridges. Cropsford is literally 3 buildings and vast, open farm-land. Cheydinhal has several more buildings, like Bruma, and a giant wall, also like Bruma, and it made for better small-scale fights due to the 'street-fighting-like nature of its layout, again, like Bruma. Cropsford did not and does not. It has zero strategic and defensible value.

Cropsford should be discarded and turned into a non-capturable Town (like DC's Chorrol and AD's Hackdirt non-captureable Towns -- both of which have more buildings and a better layout for PvP game-play than Cropsford does), not to mention that it simply makes more sense balance-wise, design-wise, and gameplay-wise, according to the overall layout of the map. I just don't see how the ZOS PvP Devs could have missed this.

Cropsford is not at all defendable as a Town and will easily and constantly be taken by AD that travel the new 'goat-path' by the Skyshard in the river there. If it were an Outpost, or had an Outpost nearby it, like the other two alliances both get, then it would be fair, formidable, and defendable; otherwise, Cropsford is just a free objective to be taken/given away. Unless those farmers, you know, decided to build a wall.

So bolded parts here. First one. IMO, you are so totally wrong here. If that new EP outpost is intact while AD has taken Drakelowe and Cropsford...this is what the new port stones are for. Sure you can deathport if ya like, but w/e. Also adding in that playing pretty much daily gives me the knowledge that AD has easy access to Farragut running up thru that HUGE dead space. This will hopefully prevent some of that. It also gives EP another avenue to defend BRK. If Arrius, Chalman, AND Drakelowe are taken, you can still deathport/stone over to the new spot and get there.

On to the next point.Your shooting yourself in the foot thinking that an inward facing outpost by Warden is any kind of advantage for EP. If anything, it's another obstacle and "pre-warning" of EP coming to Warden. You have to look at these things as offensive and defensive. AD's new outpost gives them a shorter hop to Rayles on DC's side. Everyone has one advantage and one disadvantage. Your looking at this as if the southern EP territory is a total disadvantage. In reality it helps EP protect against AD from coming up to Farragut all the time with the potential of stealing a scroll. DC can't say the same because I'm sure EP has enough players to keep the 3 gates destroyed 24-7 between Dragonclaw and Kingsford. (least on vivec NA). Which leads me to the last point (speaking only of Vivec NA). EP has the forces and focus to have won the last...3? Campaigns in a row? So imo ya got no room to say anything. Yer covered. Literally...24-7, 365, with your euro/off hour presence. The other 2 factions can't say that.

StamWhipCultist

Ad is in best position.

Ad does not have any outpost near middle bridge, only cropsford that is a town with zero real defense.
Ad has outpost pressuring DC's fort Rayles.

DC is under pressure by new AD outpost, but also have new outpost that provide pressore on EP's Kingcrest.

EP has issues with new DC outpost. On the other side, EP got new outpost in the middle of nowhere that serves no purpose at all.

Suggestion. Make Cropsford an outpost. Make the new outpost a town just like Crops is now. This way EP is in serious disadvantage to both enemy alliances.

Dreyloch

There's only one sore spot in my mind that wasn't taken care of. The path between Ales Farm and Bleakers. There is no gate or bridge and the back and forth stupidity of both DC and EP pugs will continue there. All the other "pug highways" have been at least somewhat addressed. =/

Dreyloch

StamWhipCultist wrote: »

Ad is in best position.

Ad does not have any outpost near middle bridge, only cropsford that is a town with zero real defense.
Ad has outpost pressuring DC's fort Rayles.

DC is under pressure by new AD outpost, but also have new outpost that provide pressore on EP's Kingcrest.

EP has issues with new DC outpost. On the other side, EP got new outpost in the middle of nowhere that serves no purpose at all.

Suggestion. Make Cropsford an outpost. Make the new outpost a town just like Crops is now. This way EP is in serious disadvantage to both enemy alliances.

See my comment above yours, and realize what you might be missing =/

StamWhipCultist

Dreyloch wrote: »

StamWhipCultist wrote: »

Ad is in best position.

Ad does not have any outpost near middle bridge, only cropsford that is a town with zero real defense.
Ad has outpost pressuring DC's fort Rayles.

DC is under pressure by new AD outpost, but also have new outpost that provide pressore on EP's Kingcrest.

EP has issues with new DC outpost. On the other side, EP got new outpost in the middle of nowhere that serves no purpose at all.

Suggestion. Make Cropsford an outpost. Make the new outpost a town just like Crops is now. This way EP is in serious disadvantage to both enemy alliances.

See my comment above yours, and realize what you might be missing =/

What you might be missing is that EP has no offensive outpost anymore, since Sejanus has only alessia bridge near, and that one will most likely be own 24/7/365. Also, in case AD gets EP scroll they have zero worries since EP's outposts are far north. I mean, its simple logic, see for yourself.

Sheezabeast

Maneuvering around the map with busted bridges will still be easy with keep recall stones.

Sacredx

Darkmage1337 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I would have to give this more thought but some of OPs logic is not logic at all.

People have been clamoring for Zos to do more for PvP and this is it. I expect Zos will consider reasonable and well worded thoughts on the matter which would not include the sky is falling type of replies. Unfortunately most are not interested in testing things out on the PTS which is why Zos cannot really test anything out for PvP.

I think you are confusing logic with opinion and analysis.

This picture does not lie.
AD gets 2 Outposts at DC's 3 Mile-Gates. (Nikel Outpost + Carmala Outpost)
DC gets 2 Outposts at EP's 3 Mile-Gates. (Bleaker's Outpost + Winter's Reach)
EP gets 1 Outpost + 1 town at AD's 3 Bridges. (Sejanus Outpost)
That is the new Cyrodiil map. That is ZOS's current design logic. Not mine.

There is nothing illogical about my analysis of these Cyrodiil map changes, there is only your blatant misuse of diction.

Corrected in bold. Towns or outposts, as to which is better is all subjective. They both have pros and cons. Regardless, the keeps are what is important as they control the port lines, and these have not changed.

Enkil

Sacredx wrote: »

Towns or outposts, as to which is better is all subjective.

Better? I think all the towns are better looking than any outposts. That is subjective.Opinion. Debatable.

More defensible? An outpost is by a long shot. That is objective. Fact. Indisputable.

Some people that post on these forums seem to not know the difference or what is apropos when replying to a given thread. (General observation)

Anrose

Enkil wrote: »

Sacredx wrote: »

Towns or outposts, as to which is better is all subjective.

Better? I think all the towns are better looking than any outposts. That is subjective.Opinion. Debatable.

More defensible? An outpost is by a long shot. That is objective. Fact. Indisputable.

Some people that post on these forums seem to not know the difference or what is apropos when replying to a given thread.

Some other people on these forums are incapable of seeing things in a larger perspective or from a different point of view insisting that theirs is unquestionably superior.