Bummed-- :-(

generalmyrick

Lost another friend in ESO and my guild is losing 250K bids for terrible traders to guilds advertising being bought in their name with 11 items in there store total.

I'm just exasperated!

No = can't have my stuff!

Looking for inspiration! Please?

FloppyTouch

Big guilds abusing the guild trader system and locking out other guilds from selling totally better then an AH where everyone can sell.

/end sarcasm

generalmyrick

Its a dead horse and they, whoever they may be, have beat me.

But floppy has cheered me up a bit! Thanks @FloppyTouch !

Judas Helviaryn

I dunno. I used to be very open and tolerant of most people in this community, but I've since come to hate, genuinely hate, just about everyone I come across anymore. I don't show it, I keep it wrapped up, and it's not healthy.

This community is dead, it's mismanaged (and moderated), and it's definitely one of the biggest factors driving me away from the game, not towards it.

I guess the only inspiration I can offer is that they don't matter. The game's still there to play, no matter how many hateful, toxic you-know-whats log in to ruin your day.

DragonRacer

Ghost guilds certainly suck all of the fun out of being a non-dues-charging trading guild, that’s for sure.

Threw a bid in Rawl’kha that should NOT have lost tonight. Ghosts moved in anyway. And offered a gross price for a small city that the ghost had yet ANOTHER ghost in, since our stall from this past week had already been sold to a guild that got booted out of Belkarth.

Edited for inappropriate content... well... guess the mods know what that acronym stood for. In replacement, I will simply say that I have an incredibly low opinion of the ghost guild GMs and those who support them. Surely one is allowed to say that much?

[Edited for inappropriate content]

Runs

250k isn't enough to reliably bid on even the worst traders.

I remember when 25k was more than enough to secure them.

weedgenius

It's fun to go around on Sunday nights and see which spots are ghost traders, then go back on Monday morning and check out which big capital city trading guild shelled out cash for the spot.

AlienatedGoat

generalmyrick wrote: »

Lost another friend in ESO and my guild is losing 250K bids for terrible traders to guilds advertising being bought in their name with 11 items in there store total.

I'm just exasperated!

No = can't have my stuff!

Looking for inspiration! Please?

It'll be ok bud. Just hang in there.

Tasear

DragonRacer wrote: »

Ghost guilds certainly suck all of the fun out of being a non-dues-charging trading guild, that’s for sure.

Threw a bid in Rawl’kha that should NOT have lost tonight. Ghosts moved in anyway. And offered a gross price for a small city that the ghost had yet ANOTHER ghost in, since our stall from this past week had already been sold to a guild that got booted out of Belkarth.

EABOD, every last one of you ghost guild GMs and anyone who supports you.

Rawkla is one of the best places in the game to sell even in zone chat too.

FinneganFroth

I have not heard this term before. Can someone explain ghost guilds to me? Kthx

Glurin

FinneganFroth wrote: »

I have not heard this term before. Can someone explain ghost guilds to me? Kthx

The general idea is that a guild will buy up a spot for the sole purpose of selling that spot to another guild or ransoming it to the guild that normally has it or otherwise try to profit from surrendering the spot later.

They typically won't have anything for sale in their store. The point is not to sell items. It's to extort money from other guilds, sometimes in the form of game cards (ie. RL money), which is wildly in violation of the ToS.

Although sometimes the motives are less malevolent. Some large trade guilds will use a ghost guild to buy a less desirable spot as a backup if they lose their primary spot. If they lose the primary spot, they just take the less desirable one from the ghost guild. Different motives, but same result nonetheless.

I've also heard that some of these guilds are run by larger guilds to stop competition. Kinda like the conspiracy theory that oil companies are buying up water powered car technology specifically to make sure it never sees the light of day. Fortunately there are way too many traders for any one guild to pull that one off. At least not without a massive level of coordination and way more gold than they could hope to earn back for the investment required. Not to mention ZoS would likely step in and break that up if that ever happened.

Kelces

Back to classic trading then, if other options fail as much as most uf us dislike that idea.

I'm really curious, which position those people who monopolize trade through the NPC's take on real life oligarchs. Because that's exactly the same method they operate on...

Edit: There are traders in keeps of Cyrodiil, you need to fight for those, but at least they are for free. Better than nothing.

DanteYoda

I would think Guild leaders being abused this way would have reason to seek support and have those guild banned/disbanded?

weedgenius

@Glurin explained it perfectly. The ghost guilds disband and their trader spot becomes open which they coordinate with whoever they are selling/passing it to.

I know personally GMs who have been tracking this for years, sending multiple support tickets with screenshots of trader spots before and after sale, etc, with absolutely zero response from ZOS.

weedgenius

Glurin wrote: »

FinneganFroth wrote: »

I have not heard this term before. Can someone explain ghost guilds to me? Kthx

I've also heard that some of these guilds are run by larger guilds to stop competition. Kinda like the conspiracy theory that oil companies are buying up water powered car technology specifically to make sure it never sees the light of day. Fortunately there are way too many traders for any one guild to pull that one off. At least not without a massive level of coordination and way more gold than they could hope to earn back for the investment required. Not to mention ZoS would likely step in and break that up if that ever happened.

The competition part is more about direct competition than general and it definitely happens. For example, somewhere that is a smaller town with only 3 traders you might see one trader run by a known trading guild and the other two are ghost traders. The idea is that the trading guild uses the ghost traders to cut off competition and drive people to buy from them.

Dojohoda

I'm sorry that you lost another ESO friend!

Beardimus

First of all chin up OP, it's just one aspect of the game. It's a vast game with many facets.

People do suck the fun out. For me its AP boosters and alliance switching emp flippers. They wreck cyrodiil.

As for trade, whilst that sucks it doesn't read like you were bidding on a high end option. Personally all I focus on is being in a couple of top tier trader guilds so I know my stuffs gunna sell in prime locations Then actually a trader for my small guilds is more just a nice to have.

Three things. One its not all platforms, each has different ways trade runs some better than others. Two no to AH. that would wreck things for all platforms in other ways as three the dodgy billionaires you fear now would still be about and wanting to make a buck.

Really tho surely the answer (worth a new thread even poll?) is ZOS to lock the trader for the week. No trading of traders and issue gone. Unless they like this function and feel the behavior you have seen is legit?

Glurin

Beardimus wrote: »

Really tho surely the answer (worth a new thread even poll?) is ZOS to lock the trader for the week. No trading of traders and issue gone. Unless they like this function and feel the behavior you have seen is legit?

I've actually been mulling that one over since I posted. True, it would solve the ransom problem, as it would just be a giant money sink for any guild doing it. However, it might also encourage the ones buying out competition.

As for the behavior being legit, well, to a degree it is. It's not that different from buying and selling real estate if you think about it. Not very sporting though.

FloppyTouch

Beardimus wrote: »

First of all chin up OP, it's just one aspect of the game. It's a vast game with many facets.

People do suck the fun out. For me its AP boosters and alliance switching emp flippers. They wreck cyrodiil.

As for trade, whilst that sucks it doesn't read like you were bidding on a high end option. Personally all I focus on is being in a couple of top tier trader guilds so I know my stuffs gunna sell in prime locations Then actually a trader for my small guilds is more just a nice to have.

Three things. One its not all platforms, each has different ways trade runs some better than others. Two no to AH. that would wreck things for all platforms in other ways as three the dodgy billionaires you fear now would still be about and wanting to make a buck.

Really tho surely the answer (worth a new thread even poll?) is ZOS to lock the trader for the week. No trading of traders and issue gone. Unless they like this function and feel the behavior you have seen is legit?

The big difference with AH and the part ur missing is every one can sell. Do rich guild traders control the guild traders? Yes will they controle the AH yes.

Do the big guild traders stop some players from selling? Yes. Will they stop players from selling with AH? No that's the issue and the answer back is just join them pay dues and deal with it, sorry no we should all be able to sell.

Fyi I'm in 2 big guild traders make plenty of gold and still think it's wrong to lock players out of selling. Sure they can use zone chat but you almost need to give items away for free and is a huge waste of time.

MISTRESS_DARKNESb14a_ESO

One way to solves the issue and save guilds from grinding to make enough gold to keep vendor is to do a world vendor.
We can go to a bank and list, sell collect the gold we make from items.
One world vendor would open up time for players to have fun, No more quotas
Guild leaders could focus upon events.. More loyalty to guild.
The huge guilds that are taking over the market will fight this idea ....

In the end we are here to have fun not stress out over do we have our store full and meeting requirements to keep from being booted..or oh my god we lost our vendor again headache.

Mureel

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

First of all chin up OP, it's just one aspect of the game. It's a vast game with many facets.

People do suck the fun out. For me its AP boosters and alliance switching emp flippers. They wreck cyrodiil.

As for trade, whilst that sucks it doesn't read like you were bidding on a high end option. Personally all I focus on is being in a couple of top tier trader guilds so I know my stuffs gunna sell in prime locations Then actually a trader for my small guilds is more just a nice to have.

Three things. One its not all platforms, each has different ways trade runs some better than others. Two no to AH. that would wreck things for all platforms in other ways as three the dodgy billionaires you fear now would still be about and wanting to make a buck.

Really tho surely the answer (worth a new thread even poll?) is ZOS to lock the trader for the week. No trading of traders and issue gone. Unless they like this function and feel the behavior you have seen is legit?

The big difference with AH and the part ur missing is every one can sell. Do rich guild traders control the guild traders? Yes will they controle the AH yes.

Do the big guild traders stop some players from selling? Yes. Will they stop players from selling with AH? No that's the issue and the answer back is just join them pay dues and deal with it, sorry no we should all be able to sell.

Fyi I'm in 2 big guild traders make plenty of gold and still think it's wrong to lock players out of selling. Sure they can use zone chat but you almost need to give items away for free and is a huge waste of time.

Well I happen to like it this way. Also, anyone can join a trade guild. Just because someone wants to be stroppy and stubborn is not anyone else's problem.

I like how you can find bargains and look for good deals.

I cannot stand auction houses where people can control the ENTIRE market so easily.

DirkRavenclaw

Find Guilds where you are accepted and where you like the Community, the reason i play so long is, Im in 5 awesome Guilds, doesnt look much at Zonechat anymore and a Big reason why i trade is, that they dont have a AH, i find a AH destroys the Economy utterly, luckily all the new MMOs that come out doesnt have the AH anymore, one Im looking atz has Caravans of Traders and the only way to get a Guiltrader is to PVP the Caravan, first to find it, and to take it over.

zaria

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Big guilds abusing the guild trader system and locking out other guilds from selling totally better then an AH where everyone can sell.

/end sarcasm

Some think they can make money grabbing an trader slot and sell back or sell to others. They have tried twice against us the last two years, did not get any gold and did not have stuff to sell
Last time they got in some trader the last couple of days, probably for far less than they paid.
Most stupid thing a guild can do is give in for this, they will obviously repeat it next week.

Androconium

Mother wants me to work in the mill.
But I aint nobody's slave.

1. don't donate.
2. guild hop
3. stop overpricing your stock, especially if you didn't buy it yourself.
4. Shop at your own guilds, exclusively, if you can.

Glurin

FloppyTouch wrote: »

The big difference with AH and the part ur missing is every one can sell. Do rich guild traders control the guild traders? Yes

Not really. They can get there hands on a few, but there's too many for them to corner the entire market. The whole purpose of guild traders is to fracture the market so that no one person can easily monopolize anything for very long.

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Do the big guild traders stop some players from selling? Yes. Will they stop players from selling with AH? No that's the issue and the answer back is just join them pay dues and deal with it, sorry no we should all be able to sell.

That's where you're wrong. The people who monopolize AHs do so by both buying out the cheap stuff and undercutting the competition to the point where the competition simply doesn't sell. You think you're gonna sell that stack of ore for a decent profit? Think again. I just posted fifty stacks at slightly less than what you can offer. And if you try to undercut me, I'll just do it again until there's no profit to be made and you're forced to go away, along with just about everyone else. Then I'll re-list everything at exorbitant prices and start the process over again. End result, either I control the market or there is no longer a market for that item. Either way, you get nothing and the buyer is screwed.

With guild traders, there's no reason for an undercut war. There's an average price for an item that is almost always at least semi-reasonable and multiple sellers of said item offering it at around that price. Some for more, some for less, but people will buy the items even if they aren't the absolute rock bottom global price. This not only means that the items maintain value a lot better than they do under a single AH, but also that anyone can make a decent profit from it even if they're not AH tycoons. Joining a guild is a small price to pay for that.

I'm not saying guild traders don't come with their own problems. But they are a definite improvement.

AlienSlof

What's the point of 'ghost guilds' and such? They still have to fork out gold to do it. I don't get it.

Glurin

AlienSlof wrote: »

What's the point of 'ghost guilds' and such? They still have to fork out gold to do it. I don't get it.

Picture this. You are trying to buy a house you consider your dream home for say, 200k. I find out you really want that house, so I buy it out from under you for 300k. Then I turn right around and offer to sell it to you for 400k. I may have spent a lot of money, but I also stand to make a lot if you go for it.

Coatmagic

All this stupid cloak and dagger world trader BS is the GAME for those people, and who am I to tell them how to enjoy their game time? Shopping sucks, and the 'ghosts' don't bloody help, but TTC site is there to save time (once in a while).

Like others have said, just try to get on with whatever (else) it is that you enjoy about the game

Also, if people are getting you down, go on holiday to the 'other' server ~~>
You'll either love it and wish you could transfer, or be a lot happier about you're going back to xD

Androconium

AlienSlof wrote: »

What's the point of 'ghost guilds' and such? They still have to fork out gold to do it. I don't get it.

They exclude competition at prime locations. This forces you to use their non-ghost guilds.
Inside Trading at it's worst.

Aesthier

Phage wrote: »

It'll be ok bud. Just hang in there.

Is ^ that three small trading guilds trying to bid on the Ghost?

generalmyrick

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

I dunno. I used to be very open and tolerant of most people in this community, but I've since come to hate, genuinely hate, just about everyone I come across anymore. I don't show it, I keep it wrapped up, and it's not healthy.

This community is dead, it's mismanaged (and moderated), and it's definitely one of the biggest factors driving me away from the game, not towards it.

I guess the only inspiration I can offer is that they don't matter. The game's still there to play, no matter how many hateful, toxic you-know-whats log in to ruin your day.

Thats why when our good friends move on from us it hurts more because of the nonsense out there.