How does eso line up with the lore of other elder scrolls games?

Enslaved

Aliyavana wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

yeah, quick damage control character where they didnt even write the year he was alive. Shadow magic is related to Sithis

the character has existed since before eso tho

That is what they changed to fit in this bs.

are you going to address the fact that zos isn't the only one that "bends" lore and Bethesda does it all the time with retcons and other explanations?

tbh that sounds same as when a zergling says "I use zaan because other use zaan and sload and other procs"

Aliyavana

Enslaved wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

yeah, quick damage control character where they didnt even write the year he was alive. Shadow magic is related to Sithis

the character has existed since before eso tho

That is what they changed to fit in this bs.

are you going to address the fact that zos isn't the only one that "bends" lore and Bethesda does it all the time with retcons and other explanations?

tbh that sounds same as when a zergling says "I use zaan because other use zaan and sload and other procs"

also sounds like you are cherry picking at what you find wrong. Eso has done a pretty good job at keeping the game lore friendly

Androconium

I haven't paid much attention.

IMO most lore was defined in Daggerfall and refined in Morrowind. Can't say about Daggerfall, but Morrowind had dedicated bookstores and books were a centeral part of the game, not just a peripheral thing to make the purists happy. Books had value and were inventory items.

Microsoft started the corruption when its evil hand stirred the Oblivion development.

The alternate view is that they're making it up as they go along.

Danikat

swippy wrote: »

i really think they're doing great with the lore. it lines up cleanly (along with the inherent messiness of our Aurbis), and -- as already mentioned -- it's adding to it greatly.

i was worried at first, because so many people were saying that because it's not a "real" (i guess they mean numbered?) TES game that it wouldn't be canon anyway, so they expected it to suck at lore. then i played for a while and saw that they were wrong, but some of them stuck to their guns. now every time i see those people talk with real lorehounds on point-by-point theory they get embarrassed. (i usually stay out of it unless i recall a specific detail that's gone unaddressed too long.)

i think it's cool how they chose an era that allows such freedom, too. most of these these NPCs live in the same Tamriel i know, but only the things that would logically persist are ever mentioned in later times. my point is i set a low bar and by playing the game i see the creators just keep raising it.

I think some people say it's not a real TES game because it's not made by Bethesda.

When I first found out about ESO I'd never heard of Zenimax Media (I don't tend to worry about the corporate structure of games developers, I just play the games) so when I saw it was being released by some company called Zenimax Online Studio and not Bethesda I was worried it was going to be one of those games where someone makes a generic MMO and then buys the rights to an existing franchise to skin it with and you end up with a half-done job where the lore and setting is changed to fit what they'd already built rather than the game being changed to fit the lore.

I sorted that out by looking up ZOS on Google and finding out how and why they were started and that they actually do have very close ties to Bethesda, but I really wanted to like this game so that was worth it to me. I suspect a lot of people just went on thinking it's just some studio who isn't Bethesda.

zaria

vometia wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Cyrodil not being an jungle dates back to TES 4. The southern parts are jungle the northern part as in Bruma is cold.
This is repeated in Skyrim, and yes its to not have all having one climate without seasons.

The complaints about Cyrodiil in TES4 used to drive me nuts: they tended to be twofold, that it was bad because wasn't a jungle and it was also bad because it was all the same. In spite of being snow-capped peaks in the north to jungle in the south and featuring woodland, rolling hills, crags, moorland, farmland and all the other stuff in between.

All the same was to some degree true for dungeons who was a bit low on variations even if it was lots of cool places if you did not farm the same over and over. Found one with an dead forest in an huge underground cave once.
Its an reason why the respawn timer was far longer in Skyrim

geekboy09

No one has explained to me why daedric princes want to open the plains of Oblivion. One is Molag Bal. the other was in game four which I never played.

VaranisArano

geekboy09 wrote: »

No one has explained to me why daedric princes want to open the plains of Oblivion. One is Molag Bal. the other was in game four which I never played.

The Daedric Princes cant actually create life or creatures that react with all the interesting complexities of mortals because they refused to lend some of their power to creation as did the Aedra. So while the Daedric Princes are very powerful, technically more powerful than the Aedra, they are also easily bored and mortals are great entertainment. That's the basic reason for why the Daedric Princes keep interfering. Mortals are a lot more fun to mess with than any of the minor daedra.

So the aims of Daedric Princes vary. Mehrunes Dagon in Oblivion wants to remake Nirn and we see a glimpse of that in his Paradise, which at first looks like a pastoral forest, but hides vicious daedra and lava torture pits were his creatures hunt his followers. Molag Bal wants to dominate Nirn, melding it into Coldharbor. Major Spoilers for Summerset

Nocturnal wants to use the Crystal Tower to make herself the central point of the cosmos, usurping the Aedra and Daedra alike and making herself an all-powerful goddess

Other Daedric Princes have different goals. Azura, Boethiah, and Mephala test and aide the Dunmer people, and eventually take revenge on the false Tribunal through the Nerevarine in the plot of Morrowind. In Skyrim, the Princes make the Dragonborn a lot of offers, and hermaeus Mora succeeds in making the Dragonborn serve as his champion after fighting Miraak.

Elsonso

Ydrisselle wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

madchuska83 wrote: »

The most logical consensus is that ESO takes place during a Dragon Break.

Nah. Nothing is happening in ESO that requires something as extreme as a Dragon Break.

That's why I think that we are before it. It would also explain why nobody remembers the Planemeld in Morrowind, Oblivion or Skyrim - although it's a pretty big event for Tamriel.

The thing is that I feel that Tamriel does remember those things. I figure that these things will be mentioned in TES 6, and no one will bother (or need) to explain why they were not in Skyrim and earlier games. ESO references will simply be added to TES 6 as if they were in every TES game that came before it.

If they decide to explain why "suddenly" there are books about talking about ESO, well, they can always blame it on Hermaeus Mora. Again. Pesky Daedric Prince, that one. But, in this case, a simple "retcon" that the books talking about ESO were always there, and past protagonists just never noticed them, is all that is necessary.

Of course, the decision is all up to BGS as to what they include, and how much of it. ESO is a successful Elder Scrolls title, and players of ESO will expect a nod to this game in the next TES. I figure that BGS has to see this, and they will include references to ESO, just as they include references to Skyrim, Oblivion, Morrowind, Daggerfall... etc. As appropriate for the setting of TES 6, of course.

geekboy09

VaranisArano wrote: »

geekboy09 wrote: »

No one has explained to me why daedric princes want to open the plains of Oblivion. One is Molag Bal. the other was in game four which I never played.

The Daedric Princes cant actually create life or creatures that react with all the interesting complexities of mortals because they refused to lend some of their power to creation as did the Aedra. So while the Daedric Princes are very powerful, technically more powerful than the Aedra, they are also easily bored and mortals are great entertainment. That's the basic reason for why the Daedric Princes keep interfering. Mortals are a lot more fun to mess with than any of the minor daedra.

So the aims of Daedric Princes vary. Mehrunes Dagon in Oblivion wants to remake Nirn and we see a glimpse of that in his Paradise, which at first looks like a pastoral forest, but hides vicious daedra and lava torture pits were his creatures hunt his followers. Molag Bal wants to dominate Nirn, melding it into Coldharbor. Major Spoilers for Summerset

Nocturnal wants to use the Crystal Tower to make herself the central point of the cosmos, usurping the Aedra and Daedra alike and making herself an all-powerful goddess

Other Daedric Princes have different goals. Azura, Boethiah, and Mephala test and aide the Dunmer people, and eventually take revenge on the false Tribunal through the Nerevarine in the plot of Morrowind. In Skyrim, the Princes make the Dragonborn a lot of offers, and hermaeus Mora succeeds in making the Dragonborn serve as his champion after fighting Miraak.

Interesting. I only played Skyrim, and it seemed the Daedric princes only played minor roles. I encountered them but from what I remember, they show up in minor quest lines. Of course, I thought that the main quest line was weak and not engaging so I only got 25 percent into it. I thought the dark brotherhood quest was so much better than the main one in Skyrim.

VaranisArano

geekboy09 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

geekboy09 wrote: »

No one has explained to me why daedric princes want to open the plains of Oblivion. One is Molag Bal. the other was in game four which I never played.

The Daedric Princes cant actually create life or creatures that react with all the interesting complexities of mortals because they refused to lend some of their power to creation as did the Aedra. So while the Daedric Princes are very powerful, technically more powerful than the Aedra, they are also easily bored and mortals are great entertainment. That's the basic reason for why the Daedric Princes keep interfering. Mortals are a lot more fun to mess with than any of the minor daedra.

So the aims of Daedric Princes vary. Mehrunes Dagon in Oblivion wants to remake Nirn and we see a glimpse of that in his Paradise, which at first looks like a pastoral forest, but hides vicious daedra and lava torture pits were his creatures hunt his followers. Molag Bal wants to dominate Nirn, melding it into Coldharbor. Major Spoilers for Summerset

Nocturnal wants to use the Crystal Tower to make herself the central point of the cosmos, usurping the Aedra and Daedra alike and making herself an all-powerful goddess

Other Daedric Princes have different goals. Azura, Boethiah, and Mephala test and aide the Dunmer people, and eventually take revenge on the false Tribunal through the Nerevarine in the plot of Morrowind. In Skyrim, the Princes make the Dragonborn a lot of offers, and hermaeus Mora succeeds in making the Dragonborn serve as his champion after fighting Miraak.

Interesting. I only played Skyrim, and it seemed the Daedric princes only played minor roles. I encountered them but from what I remember, they show up in minor quest lines. Of course, I thought that the main quest line was weak and not engaging so I only got 25 percent into it. I thought the dark brotherhood quest was so much better than the main one in Skyrim.

Yeah, most of them show up in quests in different holds. Hircine's in Falkreath, Vaermina in Dawnstar trying to pull a Stormhaven 2.0, Sheogorath in Solitude and so on. Its very similar to the minor Daedric quests in the other TES games where you do a quest, get a cool artifact. Nocturnal probably gets the most plot importance if you did the Thieves Guild or Hircine with the Companions.

The only major player in Skyrim, iirc, is Hermaeus Mora in the Dragonborn DLC where his champion Miraak is trying to escape Apocrypha and Hermaeus Mora "helps" the Dragonborn and basically traps the Dragonborn into becoming his Champion. Molag Bal isn't actively involved in the Dawnguard DLC, though its vampires, so its dealing with a bunch of Molag Bal worshipers trying to put out the sun.

Largely I think Skyrim tried to steer clear of the Big Bad Daedra plot that anchored TES IV Oblivion by bringing in Alduin and some of the Aedrc lore with Akatosh, Kynareth, and Talos. And then ESO decided to go full on TES IV Oblivion: The Prequel/Remake with a Totally Different Big Bad Daedra in terms of its main plot, to my disappointment.

Pink_Violinz

Ydrisselle wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

madchuska83 wrote: »

The most logical consensus is that ESO takes place during a Dragon Break.

Nah. Nothing is happening in ESO that requires something as extreme as a Dragon Break.

That's why I think that we are before it. It would also explain why nobody remembers the Planemeld in Morrowind, Oblivion or Skyrim - although it's a pretty big event for Tamriel.

I mean, even playing Skyrim we rarely hear about the Oblivion Crisis. Yeah there are references here and there, but there isn't even an old portal to be found, and that was only 200 years prior. Considering the Planemeld is a good thousand years before, it's not surprising it isn't spoken of much.

Elsonso

VaranisArano wrote: »

Largely I think Skyrim tried to steer clear of the Big Bad Daedra plot that anchored TES IV Oblivion by bringing in Alduin and some of the Aedrc lore with Akatosh, Kynareth, and Talos. And then ESO decided to go full on TES IV Oblivion: The Prequel/Remake with a Totally Different Big Bad Daedra in terms of its main plot, to my disappointment.

Well, I think that the fact that ESO is largely a TES 3 Oblivion remake is because TES 3 was the Elder Scrolls game that was currently out when they started to make ESO. I don't think that the combined leadership at ZOS knew enough about Elder Scrolls back then to fill a thimble, so the easy route to getting that knowledge was to simply look at what had already been done and copy it.

BGS was off working on Fallout 3 during the formative years of ESO. By the time BGS turned the big guns on TES 5, ZOS was already well down the road on ESO.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

not very well, they have towns that don't exist in this era and also the towns are in the wrong places, they try and get around the holes in the lore by saying dragon breath

geekboy09

This is the only quest I clearly remember in Skyrim with Molag Bal in it because it scared me so bad @VaranisArano
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Nopedsr3sxI&t=339s

esotoon

Ydrisselle wrote: »

That's why I think that we are before it. It would also explain why nobody remembers the Planemeld in Morrowind, Oblivion or Skyrim - although it's a pretty big event for Tamriel.

In fairness, only a small number of people existing in the time of ESO even notice the whole Planemeld thing. Think of all the towns right next to anchors, yet none of the townsfolk even mention it, let alone react to it. And the faction leaders choose to fight over a Throne, instead of dealing with the slightly more pressing matter of the imminent destruction of their world.

It’s not so much the Oblivion Crisis, as it is the Oblivious Crisis! So what hope is there of it being remembered 10 years later, let alone hundreds of years?

MinuitPro

Dragon Break: to break time reality and excuse the alternate. Best explained by one Dr. Emmett Brown.

Kiralyn2000

Yeah. TES lore is a convoluted mess, but it's ok because they have several godlike and beyond-godlike forces & concepts out there to say "It's ok! the convoluted mess makes sense!"

Enslaved wrote: »

... yet we have 10 000 000 accounts with ppl using these

Eh, that's not lore, that's just "MMO".... story-wise, you're the only Destined Hero/Vestige running around. (Just like 8 million people didn't kill Onyxia - multiple time each! - in World of Warcraft, or only one Amazing Time Traveling Captain stopped the Iconian War in Star Trek Online. Etc) Those other players don't really exist.

Bladerunner1

I would have liked for Greenshade to have more shade and green things, otherwise really good lore-wise.

JD2013

Grand.

ESO, to me is the most interesting game lore wise since Morrowind.

Apache_Kid

Maybe Im just not a "lore guy" but it seems pretty pointless to worry about stuff like this in a universe where something like "dragon breaks" exist to cover up discrepancies. Anything and everything can just be explained away by that.

vometia

Recremen wrote: »

vometia wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Cyrodil not being an jungle dates back to TES 4. The southern parts are jungle the northern part as in Bruma is cold.
This is repeated in Skyrim, and yes its to not have all having one climate without seasons.

The complaints about Cyrodiil in TES4 used to drive me nuts: they tended to be twofold, that it was bad because wasn't a jungle and it was also bad because it was all the same. In spite of being snow-capped peaks in the north to jungle in the south and featuring woodland, rolling hills, crags, moorland, farmland and all the other stuff in between.

It's not really jungle to the south, as I recall. There's some wetland type environments in Blackwood, but that's not reaaaaaally Cyrodiil that's newly-annexed territory of Elsweyr and possible also Black Marsh (my Black Marsh lore is fuzzy). In any case, you're quite right that it isn't all the same, but the Pocket Guides had been pretty explicit about a central grassland valley around the Imperial City surrounded by dense jungle, with mangroves and some deciduous forests as you go west petering out into a wet/dry climatic area along the Gold Coast. They weren't bad environments, they just went against like 7 years or so of established canon.

That's interesting (and have an upvote!) because for all the complaints I'd seen, and there were many, nobody ever made a point of nor explained any of that stuff.

ESO seems to have a bit of a mish-mash with the Imperial gear being obviously Romanesque hot-weather sort of stuff but Cyrodiil maintaining that sort of Tolkien fantasy classic of the "home" area (as it was in Oblivion) being a very mediaeval Ye Olde Englande sort of thing. Which I quite like, personally, but I guess some of the more valid criticism of the time is that it was perhaps unduly influenced by the roughly contemporary Peter Jackson take on LotR; which oddly enough I'm not very keen on, but that's another subject.

It's all a bit tricky for me since Oblivion was my introduction to TES and retconned various stuff and established other bits which Skyrim and ESO either backed out or further retconned. So the Cyrodiil I know and love is from Oblivion, albeit with lots of mods; High Rock I was expecting to be full of Ralph Coshams and Catherine Flyes, the sort of place where Midsummer Murders could be happening, but instead there are too many people like that sleazy Breton from Whiterun in Skyrim. I'm not sure which if either is more authentic. But the Skyrim folk seem way less surly and unpleasant than they were in, well, Skyrim, which is definitely an improvement.

Varana

Retcons happen. Resources are limited so books are re-used. We shouldn't try to force an in-game explanation for every inconsistency in a long-running series that has been pretty lax with its lore at times. Because then we end up with, frankly, ridiculous "a wizard did it" like the Hermaeus Mora thing, or Tiber Septim retconning Cyrodiil in-universe, or the apparently ubiquitous Dragon Break ex machina.

It's usually just some minor detail. It should be collectively ignored and glossed over. "Yeah, this book shouldn't technically be here. Let's assume it's something similar and move on."

And in the case of actual major changes, like making Cyrodiil as boringly mundane as the landscape outside my window , just acknowledge that they changed things and older information doesn't apply any more. Those fanciful attempts at coming up with an in-universe explanation for every detail that clearly had real-life reasons, may be a nice brain exercise but doesn't usually help with anything.

swippy

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

not very well, they have towns that don't exist in this era and also the towns are in the wrong places, they try and get around the holes in the lore by saying dragon breath

towns actually do come and go, though. even in the short time that Europeans have been in North America there have been towns that sprung up and are now completely abandoned, sometimes with barely a trace of any human influence.

which ones are in different places, though? are you talking about in Cyrodiil? (that actually can be hand-waved with the existing "gameplay limitations" explanation. they had to try to balance those locations for the War. just like how Solitude is a gigantic thriving metropolis, but in TES5 it renders as a place with only about a hundred houses and a hundred residents. sacrifices are made for the games that don't ultimately affect the story of the lore.) i'd love to hear about other towns that moved; i'll investigate based on your suggestions.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

We also need to remember about ESO lore, is it is unique in it isn't "Set History", but observations from the "un-reliable observer".
We can even see how the debate over Cyrodiil "Jungle" can be related to real life....~
We read in a book that Cyrodiil was a lush jungle. In school I read Columbus discovered America. But he didn't.
History (and TES lore) is from a view of others, and it doesn't always match.

For those who wish to learn more about TES history and lore, check here. Huzzah!!
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/tamriel-timeline

BretonMage

I usually don't bother too much about minor inconsistencies, but - shallow as I am - I'm getting really bothered by every single damn Altmer male in ESO having beards (I think I can probably count on one hand those who don't). One rarely saw an Altmer with a beard in the original series, and seeing them now, many of them with huge, thick and curly ones, seems so absolutely wrong.

Davor

When I played from Day One, I HATED ESO because it broke the lore right from the start. The classes were never in TES. The skills and powers were not in TES. To this day the classes and spells are TES lore breaking because they were added for ESO.

That said, I love the game now after the changes that Zenimax has made. Still this is lore breaking for me. Other than that, it does feel like it finally belongs in The Elder Scrolls universe.

Shievarei

As long as c0da stays out of it the lore is fine.

geekboy09

It’s funny in this game Molag Bal is the major bad guy but yet in Skyrim he does nothing except try to scare us. We do find his mace though.

nimander99

@ZOS_Lawrence_Schick the Loremaster has done a great job keeping the lore in line and adding new exciting lore!

Ratzkifal

What you should know about ESO lore in relation to Skyrim, ESO is set in the second era, which means that Talos hasn't been born yet. So don't be suprised when people talk of the eight divines (and not the nine) - especially in Skyrim.

The statue of Azura hasn't been built yet, Winterhold is still completely fine (but we currently can't go there), Paarthurnax is waiting on the peak of the throat of the world (which we can't reach because of avalanche hazard) and west Skyrim has been mostly taken over by the Reachmen.

Fun fact a great great great great... great ancestor of Ulfric Stormcloak can be seen in Windhelm - Thane Mera Stormcloak.