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Moon Hunter Keep no death

GlorphNoldorin
GlorphNoldorin
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I'm trying for the no death achieve as tank. I have tanked this vet dungeon many times and cleared hard mode several times. On trying to clear no death we have gotten the last boss to 30% twice and I have been one shot through block. I run 39k health and iirc the death recap is a rend attack of about 35k and a 4-5k bleed. At both times I have been blocking. The first time I thought maybe there was a delay between block casting a skill and block being down but the second time I was straight blocking. I haven't seen this in clearing hard mode or other times regular vet. I seem to remember there was some bugs with scale and fang where tanks were one shot through block.

Anyone have any insight please?
Edited by GlorphNoldorin on August 19, 2018 9:02AM
  • erlewine
    erlewine
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    on the last boss?

    not sure what the problem is. on hardmode the last boss can enrage thus making it hit hard, but I dont think it enrages on non-HM. When I did it, we didn't have any problems with the last boss.
    eisley the worst
  • profundidob16_ESO
    profundidob16_ESO
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    I'm trying for the no death achieve as tank. I have tanked this vet dungeon many times and cleared hard mode several times. On trying to clear no death we have gotten the last boss to 30% twice and I have been one shot through block. I run 39k health and iirc the death recap is a rend attack of about 35k and a 4-5k bleed. At both times I have been blocking. The first time I thought maybe there was a delay between block casting a skill and block being down but the second time I was straight blocking. I haven't seen this in clearing hard mode or other times regular vet. I seem to remember there was some bugs with scale and fang where tanks were one shot through block.

    Anyone have any insight please?

    I had this as well. The server at ZOS (as opposed to the client software on your pc) calculates the effects and whether your action is considered as blocking or not. Therefore even when blocking in time on your screen the server might consider it 'too late' like dying in vSP HM to red area's while you are litteraly lying 2meters outside the red area.

    The second is the fear mechanic that hits you a split second before the heavy attack lands. In the eyes of the server your block mode was first taken away by the fear and after that (unnoticeably fast on your screen) you die to an unblocked heavy attack.

    Stay in block longer and adapt your build to something more towards permablocking in order to eliminate the risks from the first. The second keep moving away from adds and totem
  • GlorphNoldorin
    GlorphNoldorin
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    I understand what you are saying and on oceanic ping the server delay can be intolerable, especially for the poison phase in vSCP but I am built for permablock and I was full blocking, at least 100% for the second occurrence ....which is why I posted.

    I was not feared by the totem.

    Truly frustrating to be one shot while blocking when I have successfully blocked/tanked other runs in regular vet and hard mode with out this happening.

    I am wondering if it was perhaps a collision thing with the arena wall as both times I was very close/against the back wall.
  • Left4Daud
    Left4Daud
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    I’ve successfully tanked this fight on a few no death runs and haven’t had any issues getting killed through block. If it happens to you again, take a screenshot of your death recap, should help us maybe identify the problem.

    Otherwise hang in there and try again!
  • GlorphNoldorin
    GlorphNoldorin
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    I cleared no death but kept well away from the wall, dont know if that was the problem but glad to be done with it.
  • Left4Daud
    Left4Daud
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    Congrats!

    It’s definitely a stressful one to get on a tank.
  • profundidob16_ESO
    profundidob16_ESO
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    I understand what you are saying and on oceanic ping the server delay can be intolerable, especially for the poison phase in vSCP but I am built for permablock and I was full blocking, at least 100% for the second occurrence ....which is why I posted.

    I was not feared by the totem.

    Truly frustrating to be one shot while blocking when I have successfully blocked/tanked other runs in regular vet and hard mode with out this happening.

    I am wondering if it was perhaps a collision thing with the arena wall as both times I was very close/against the back wall.

    Last night I went back in and tanked HM and must say I stand corrected as this exactly happened to me on several occasions. I was tanking the dogs 1 at a time right at the entrance left and right in those mini corners with my back against the wall. I made sure there were no totems or adds near me and while being in full block mode the dog just 1 shot insta-killed me sometimes (not always) with it's heavy attack as if I had not been in block mode. The log shows an unblocked heavy attack from the dog which killed me while I clearly was in permablock the whole time when it happened. There was no lag at all and it's not the daily.

    I'm now convinced you're right and I definetely think there is a bug going on that causes block wrongfully to be ignored. I don't know whether it is due to being close to the walls or specifically related to the extra HM mechanics. Considering you had it during your no-death (non-HM I assume) veteran run I assume it is the first.

    @ZOS_Finn @ZOS_GinaBruno

    Edited by profundidob16_ESO on August 22, 2018 12:17PM
  • snegurd
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    I have noticed the same thing tanking WHK and MOS. It seems that sometimes the block is not registering even when I am blocking. At first I thought it was my mouse but after switching hardware it persisted. Good to know I'm not just going crazy...
    PC | NA
    Guildmaster of Noob Nation

    Snegurd Limp-Spear: Nord DK tank
    Milamber of Midkemia: Breton Sorc dps

    Flawless Conqueror | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Assistant Alienist | Shadow Breaker | Blackrose Executioner
  • code65536
    code65536
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    I was tanking this fight for my first time ever yesterday, on HM. We were also getting a couple of friends their first HM clears, so we did several pulls.

    I, too, noticed something strange. The first few pulls, I never had any unusual deaths to heavy attacks--I died only when the rest of the group wiped (and once when a fear totem spawned while the wolf was doing its heavy attack). On the final pull, I died three times to heavy attacks, and I couldn't explain it (ironically, despite those tank deaths, that was the pull where we cleared HM). I was blocking, I wasn't feared, and the enemy wasn't enraged.

    I didn't think much of it, though, since it was my first time there as a tank and I just assumed at the time that I was doing something wrong on that pull, even though I had no idea what that could've been.
    Edited by code65536 on August 23, 2018 11:53AM
    PC/NA ― Officer of Nightfighters ― Officer and former GM of The Merchant's Reserve
    @code65536
    DC – Breton Nightblade – DD – Snow Oryx   ☙
    DC – Dunmer Dragonknight – DD/Tank – Cinder Oryx   ☙
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    AD – Bosmer Nightblade – DD – Higgs Bosmer
    DC – Argonian Dragonknight – Tank – Erects-the-Horns-of-War
    DC – Redguard Sorceress – DD – Rallina Oryx
    DC – Altmer Nightblade – DD – Joyèd

    @code4096
    DC – Dunmer Nightblade – DD – Raven Oryx   ☙
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    DC – Altmer Sorceress – DD – Codegasm

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  • Mureel
    Mureel
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    code65536 wrote: »
    I was tanking this fight for my first time ever yesterday, on HM. We were also getting a couple of friends their first HM clears, so we did several pulls.

    I, too, noticed something strange. The first few pulls, I never had any unusual deaths to heavy attacks--I died only when the rest of the group wiped (and once when a fear totem spawned while the wolf was doing its heavy attack). On the final pull, I died three times to heavy attacks, and I couldn't explain it (ironically, despite those tank deaths, that was the pull where we cleared HM). I was blocking, I wasn't feared, and the enemy wasn't enraged.

    I didn't think much of it, though, since it was my first time there as a tank and I just assumed at the time that I was doing something wrong on that pull, even though I had no idea what that could've been.

    I tank it, and I've had this happen. Cannot explain- just appears like I haven't blocked *shrugs*
    You know you don't have to be here right?
  • profundidob16_ESO
    profundidob16_ESO
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    snegurd wrote: »
    I have noticed the same thing tanking WHK and MOS. It seems that sometimes the block is not registering even when I am blocking. At first I thought it was my mouse but after switching hardware it persisted. Good to know I'm not just going crazy...

    I'm starting to consider the possibility that there is a bigger general combat issue going on that causes block to be ignored on alot more occasions than i'm aware off. Since I usually press igneous right before the incoming big blows (e.g. hulking werewolves) throughout the dungeon I easily survive hits even if they count as nonblocked. In other words this issue could very well have been happening alot more to me right under my nose and I wouldn't have noticed it until some exceptional huge ones are able to 1-shot me.

    I think I'm going to start a little troubleshooting tonight in order to try and simulate this bug and prove it
    Edited by profundidob16_ESO on August 23, 2018 12:51PM
  • GlorphNoldorin
    GlorphNoldorin
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    Enraged MHK final boss attacks usually only take me to about 40-50% from full health through block. The one shots here seems like a regular heavy attack that is not blocked at all, these attacks typically take me about 25-40% from full health. I haven't experienced this in MOS that I can remember but once I moved well away from the wall in MHK, I have not seen this again.
  • profundidob16_ESO
    profundidob16_ESO
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    Enraged MHK final boss attacks usually only take me to about 40-50% from full health through block. The one shots here seems like a regular heavy attack that is not blocked at all, these attacks typically take me about 25-40% from full health. I haven't experienced this in MOS that I can remember but once I moved well away from the wall in MHK, I have not seen this again.

    I'll try just that as well, tank them away from the walls
  • xRIVALENx
    xRIVALENx
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    With these one shot attacks I have noticed they actually fully deplete your stamina bar before they kill you. Perhaps it is a bug or a mechanic we are missing. I have only noticed this happening in HM of course. The fear is easy enough to avoid unless the boss drops a totem on you. Walk out of the fear aoe, hold block for the roar, roll dodge the heavy attack jump, block the next roar, rinse and repeat.
  • profundidob16_ESO
    profundidob16_ESO
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    With the current state of ESO buginess on all fronts I somehow really would like the following addon to be revived by someone and improved further so that:


    -it doesn't cause errors on the current version of ESO client which it currently does
    -it contains more entries when you increase the windows size so that things stay longer
    -Allows you to filter out stuff so you can keep an oversight on only incoming damage. Then you watch it as you replay your video in slow motion...
    -the full log can be exported to a text file on your local pc including exact timestamps for each log entry
    -it includes timestamps for each log entry so they can be compared to a video afterwards

    http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info23-CombatLogStatisticsCLS.html

    I really like how it can be run next to the chatbox at the same time so when you replay a video of your fight while it was on would show you all details at once

    wouldn't that be a job for you @code65536 since I believe you have experience with making eso addons ? ;)

    Edited by profundidob16_ESO on August 23, 2018 3:18PM
  • Mureel
    Mureel
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    Slightly off topic; but one thing that makes me LOL is how similar the CC the plants make your character do looks to /dancedrunk

    My first time tanking it I got a bear too far to the back and got CCd by a plant and burst out laughing xD
    Edited by Mureel on August 23, 2018 6:15PM
    You know you don't have to be here right?
  • Mureel
    Mureel
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    xRIVALENx wrote: »
    With these one shot attacks I have noticed they actually fully deplete your stamina bar before they kill you. Perhaps it is a bug or a mechanic we are missing. I have only noticed this happening in HM of course. The fear is easy enough to avoid unless the boss drops a totem on you. Walk out of the fear aoe, hold block for the roar, roll dodge the heavy attack jump, block the next roar, rinse and repeat.

    I love when she drops a totem on you then fears you with roar or whatever. I feel like I hear circus music in my head.
    You know you don't have to be here right?
  • TheNightflame
    TheNightflame
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    xRIVALENx wrote: »
    With these one shot attacks I have noticed they actually fully deplete your stamina bar before they kill you. Perhaps it is a bug or a mechanic we are missing. I have only noticed this happening in HM of course. The fear is easy enough to avoid unless the boss drops a totem on you. Walk out of the fear aoe, hold block for the roar, roll dodge the heavy attack jump, block the next roar, rinse and repeat.

    death can be de-sync'd sometimes, it'll happen in battle grounds where your health will sill be there for a second and your resources will go to zero for a bit before you actually die
  • Sebar80
    Sebar80
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    I have been insta-killed there as a tank but only in HM. If it happens its usually one and the same thing. Fear, wolf leap combo.
    I don't think dog leap in normal vet, at least i did not noticed it myself, but I only did it once in non hm. If they do the leap is not telegraphed, they look like the sitting on hind legs for a second an jump on random player, usually tank (it may have something to do with aggro). It can be dodged by dps/healer but not blocked and tank can dodge or block unless he is feared.
    PC EU
    PVE

    Tanks: DK, Warden, Templar, Nb, Sorc
    PVP Sotha Sil/BGS
    MagSorc
    Mag DK
    StamBlade
    MagBlade
    MagPlar
    StamDen

    StamDK
    MagDen
    StamSorc
    WW(StamSorc)
  • code65536
    code65536
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    Sebar80 wrote: »
    If they do the leap is not telegraphed, they look like the sitting on hind legs for a second an jump on random player, usually tank (it may have something to do with aggro).

    The Pounce (not the Lunge, which is well-telegraphed) from Ary and Zel is not well-telegraphed. It happens when one has been restrained for too long. Typically, the tank will hold one near the boss's spawn, which restrains the other. However, if you restrain them for too long (approx. 30s), the one that the tank has taunted will shed aggro and become untauntable and the other wolf will do a Pounce on a random player, which is an AoE and will 1-shot any DD or healer who don't dodge it. It hits so hard that blocking will not save you unless you are the tank, so dodging is the only option.

    The best way to deal with this mechanic is to defeat the restrained wolf quickly, before they become restless. But if that doesn't happen, then the tank should switch taunt (since the wolf that the tank had taunted will become untauntable for a period of time after it sheds aggro) and everyone else should be prepared to dodge an imminent Pounce.

    (The latest version of the Combat Alerts addon will alert when the tank has to switch taunt on Ary/Zel, and a couple of seconds later it will sound a dodge alert for the Pounce.)
    Edited by code65536 on August 23, 2018 9:39PM
    PC/NA ― Officer of Nightfighters ― Officer and former GM of The Merchant's Reserve
    @code65536
    DC – Breton Nightblade – DD – Snow Oryx   ☙
    DC – Dunmer Dragonknight – DD/Tank – Cinder Oryx   ☙
    EP – Altmer Sorcerer – DD – Elim Crake
    DC – Breton Templar – Healer – Zebulon the Spirit Bear
    AD – Bosmer Nightblade – DD – Higgs Bosmer
    DC – Argonian Dragonknight – Tank – Erects-the-Horns-of-War
    DC – Redguard Sorceress – DD – Rallina Oryx
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    @code4096
    DC – Dunmer Nightblade – DD – Raven Oryx   ☙
    DC – Argonian Dragonknight – Tank – Takes-All-Blame
    DC – Altmer Sorceress – DD – Codegasm

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  • BANK_IT_HERE
    BANK_IT_HERE
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    code65536 wrote: »
    Sebar80 wrote: »
    If they do the leap is not telegraphed, they look like the sitting on hind legs for a second an jump on random player, usually tank (it may have something to do with aggro).

    The Pounce (not the Lunge, which is well-telegraphed) from Ary and Zel is not well-telegraphed. It happens when one has been restrained for too long. Typically, the tank will hold one near the boss's spawn, which restrains the other. However, if you restrain them for too long (approx. 30s), the one that the tank has taunted will shed aggro and become untauntable and the other wolf will do a Pounce on a random player, which is an AoE and will 1-shot any DD or healer who don't dodge it. It hits so hard that blocking will not save you unless you are the tank, so dodging is the only option.

    The best way to deal with this mechanic is to defeat the restrained wolf quickly, before they become restless. But if that doesn't happen, then the tank should switch taunt (since the wolf that the tank had taunted will become untauntable for a period of time after it sheds aggro) and everyone else should be prepared to dodge an imminent Pounce.

    (The latest version of the Combat Alerts addon will alert when the tank has to switch taunt on Ary/Zel, and a couple of seconds later it will sound a dodge alert for the Pounce.)

    The world of PC.....
  • TheMythicDawn
    TheMythicDawn
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    The world of PC.....

    not everyone on PC uses crutch addons
  • code65536
    code65536
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    The world of PC.....

    not everyone on PC uses crutch addons

    Not everyone on PC gets annoyed when they die to mechanics that have no telegraphing or cues. :trollface:
    PC/NA ― Officer of Nightfighters ― Officer and former GM of The Merchant's Reserve
    @code65536
    DC – Breton Nightblade – DD – Snow Oryx   ☙
    DC – Dunmer Dragonknight – DD/Tank – Cinder Oryx   ☙
    EP – Altmer Sorcerer – DD – Elim Crake
    DC – Breton Templar – Healer – Zebulon the Spirit Bear
    AD – Bosmer Nightblade – DD – Higgs Bosmer
    DC – Argonian Dragonknight – Tank – Erects-the-Horns-of-War
    DC – Redguard Sorceress – DD – Rallina Oryx
    DC – Altmer Nightblade – DD – Joyèd

    @code4096
    DC – Dunmer Nightblade – DD – Raven Oryx   ☙
    DC – Argonian Dragonknight – Tank – Takes-All-Blame
    DC – Altmer Sorceress – DD – Codegasm

    The Flawless Conqueror  •  Dro-m'Athra Destroyer  •  Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor  •  Voice of Reason  •  Bringer of Light  •  Blackrose Executioner

    Add-Ons: Itemization BrowserLoot LogDeconstruction Junk MarkerRaidificatorPurge TrackervHoF Status PanelAsylum Status PanelDungeon TimerCombat Alerts
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