Open World PvP in Fallout 76

runagate

Watching the Fallout 76 panel on Twitch.

I'm gonna say this because a lot of others are going to, as well: I want this in ESO.

When you attack another player you just do a little damage. If you engage, then both do full damage.

You can, eventually, whittle someone down and kill them that's unwilling. But they then become a "wanted murderer" and you can't get caps or xp during that time, and others get rewards for hunting you down and killing you. Thus griefing removes most rewards. But instead creates "interesting content"

Carbonised

No. Go away.

VaranisArano

Sorry, if I wanted to PVP in the middle of my PVE, I'd farm in Cyrodiil or Imperial City.

anamenobodyelsehas

runagate wrote: »

Watching the Fallout 76 panel on Twitch.

I'm gonna say this because a lot of others are going to, as well: I want this in ESO.

When you attack another player you just do a little damage. If you engage, then both do full damage.

You can, eventually, whittle someone down and kill them that's unwilling. But they then become a "wanted murderer" and you can't get caps or xp during that time, and others get rewards for hunting you down and killing you. Thus griefing removes most rewards. But instead creates "interesting content"

Color me skeptical. Everyone always thinks the next open-world PVP game will be the one to solve the griefing problem, but it won't. Sweeping generalization time: the only people who want open-world PVP are people who like griefing, or at least accept it as the cost of open-world PVP. All the talk over the years about ways to mitigate griefing in open-world PVP is just a honey pot to draw in more targets to feed the griefers.

Personally, I have no concerns one way or another; griefing was the norm in all the online games I grew up with, so I think people should just embrace it, or leave it alone, rather than trying to come up with silly systems of mitigation that will never work when exposed to a player population that is determined to grief.

Watchdog

runagate wrote: »

Watching the Fallout 76 panel on Twitch.

I'm gonna say this because a lot of others are going to, as well: I want this in ESO.

When you attack another player you just do a little damage. If you engage, then both do full damage.

You can, eventually, whittle someone down and kill them that's unwilling. But they then become a "wanted murderer" and you can't get caps or xp during that time, and others get rewards for hunting you down and killing you. Thus griefing removes most rewards. But instead creates "interesting content"

No, thanks, I am happy to have found a game that allows me to quest without people like you bothering me with PvP. You have Cyrodiil and consensual duels for PvP.

The autodecline duel function in ESO is awesome.

zParallaxz

runagate wrote: »

Watching the Fallout 76 panel on Twitch.

I'm gonna say this because a lot of others are going to, as well: I want this in ESO.

When you attack another player you just do a little damage. If you engage, then both do full damage.

You can, eventually, whittle someone down and kill them that's unwilling. But they then become a "wanted murderer" and you can't get caps or xp during that time, and others get rewards for hunting you down and killing you. Thus griefing removes most rewards. But instead creates "interesting content"

Bro that’s what essentially the justice system was going to be. I for one would of loved it and many would learn to love also. The reason it was scrapped was due to over whelming pve players complaining, EVEN THOUGH THE OPTION WAS GOING TO BE OFF AUTOMATICALLY IN THE MENU.

Neoauspex

runagate wrote: »

Watching the Fallout 76 panel on Twitch.

I'm gonna say this because a lot of others are going to, as well: I want this in ESO.

When you attack another player you just do a little damage. If you engage, then both do full damage.

You can, eventually, whittle someone down and kill them that's unwilling. But they then become a "wanted murderer" and you can't get caps or xp during that time, and others get rewards for hunting you down and killing you. Thus griefing removes most rewards. But instead creates "interesting content"

I'm down. I wish they'd never scrapped the justice system in ESO. But there's gonna be the beating-a-dead-horse gif in this thread any minute.

RaddlemanNumber7

So you grief some poor unwilling player to death, and then your buddy immediately kills you to get the bounty. This doesn't sound like very interesting content to me.

That sort of behaviour may be acceptable in West Virginia, but thankfully ESO is set in Tamriel.

Micah_Bayer

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

So you grief some poor unwilling player to death, and then your buddy immediately kills you to get the bounty. This doesn't sound like very interesting content to me.

That sort of behaviour may be acceptable in West Virginia, but thankfully ESO is set in Tamriel.

Make the rewards small then. I want it for the fun.

Watchdog

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

So you grief some poor unwilling player to death, and then your buddy immediately kills you to get the bounty. This doesn't sound like very interesting content to me.

That sort of behaviour may be acceptable in West Virginia, but thankfully ESO is set in Tamriel.

Make the rewards small then. I want it for the fun.

Are you certain that the people you want to grief would consider getting griefed by you fun too?

Because I won't. If such a mechanism becomes a thing in ESO, I am off immediately and I won't spend a single Eurocent on ESO again.

AlnilamE

No, thank you. This game is not Fallout.

Savos_Saren

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

So you grief some poor unwilling player to death, and then your buddy immediately kills you to get the bounty. This doesn't sound like very interesting content to me.

That sort of behaviour may be acceptable in West Virginia, but thankfully ESO is set in Tamriel.

Make the rewards small then. I want it for the fun.

As a PVPer and PVEer- I think this would be a horrible idea. PVP can get pretty toxic with hate tells and griefers (which seems to be what you want to do) and some PVEers are in this game to relax and enjoy their time off work.

If it's fun for you to annoy the *** out of someone that doesn't want to fight- maybe you need to do some introspection.

logarifmik

Stop. Just... stop asking such... things, okay? First it was PUBG, now this.

MLGProPlayer

No because PvP and PvE gear are not the same in this game.

PvPers would just grief PvEers, who would have no way to defend themselves.

When I'm decked out in all divines light armour for PvE, I die in 1-2 hits from someone in PvP gear, while not being able to deal any damage to them since their gear is impenetrable.

If PvP and PvE gear were the same, then I'd have no issue with your proposition.

code65536

I feel as if nobody read the first post.

The part that's intriguing is that the damage done is reduced if you attack an unwilling participant.

How reduced is it? If it's something big, like a 90% reduction, they'd have a hard time outdamaging the natural health regeneration. And if they do tryhard enough and kill the unwilling player, they get punished for it. I'm curious to see how well it works when FO76 comes out, because I gotta admit, it sounds clever.

Franieck

a big no from my side as well. I would completely drop this game if they turned it into an open world pvp

Watchdog

code65536 wrote: »

I feel as if nobody read the first post.

The part that's intriguing is that the damage done is reduced if you attack an unwilling participant.

How reduced is it? If it's something big, like a 90% reduction, they'd have a hard time outdamaging the natural health regeneration. And if they do tryhard enough and kill the unwilling player, they get punished for it. I'm curious to see how well it works when FO76 comes out, because I gotta admit, it sounds clever.

Even if the reduction was 99.9%, I would still quit.

I have exactly zero interest in being bothered by any PvPers. That is what Cyrodiil and duels are for. I autodecline duels and I stay out of Cyrodiil for now.

You want unwilling targets, I don't want to be your target. I am prefectly happy with the current system where you cannot bother me.

max_only

If your health bar is 16k while picking flowers and turning in quests, a 90% reduction on the damage of a pvp player is still going to be terrible if they are insistent on fighting.

Gilvoth

sounds Awesome let's do it.
make the game soo much more fun and realistic.
i have been asking for open world pvp since beta.

MLGProPlayer

code65536 wrote: »

I feel as if nobody read the first post.

The part that's intriguing is that the damage done is reduced if you attack an unwilling participant.

How reduced is it? If it's something big, like a 90% reduction, they'd have a hard time outdamaging the natural health regeneration. And if they do tryhard enough and kill the unwilling player, they get punished for it. I'm curious to see how well it works when FO76 comes out, because I gotta admit, it sounds clever.

It's still pointless. If someone wants to fight you, they'll duel you.

And it will work in FO76 because there is no PvE/PvP gear schism in those games.

runagate

code65536 wrote: »

I feel as if nobody read the first post.

The part that's intriguing is that the damage done is reduced if you attack an unwilling participant.

How reduced is it? If it's something big, like a 90% reduction, they'd have a hard time outdamaging the natural health regeneration. And if they do tryhard enough and kill the unwilling player, they get punished for it. I'm curious to see how well it works when FO76 comes out, because I gotta admit, it sounds clever.

Well, obviously, I should have predicted that but I was playing and watching the stream.

What I meant was not "no opt-in open world pvp everywhere" but instead "I admire the well-thought out mechanisms they discussed and would like to see some content in ESO like that" but couldn't simply memorize the many paragraphs of information and quote it to share with people here. I think I captured the essence of their system, though, despite the brevity of the description.

I especially like the "wanted murderer" mechanism and have trouble understanding how they didn't end up finding a good way to implement this for the Justice system.

Vanzen

it would be a viable idea if it didnt inevitably end in no skills stealth NB noobs harrassing everyone.

Osteos

code65536 wrote: »

I feel as if nobody read the first post.

The part that's intriguing is that the damage done is reduced if you attack an unwilling participant.

How reduced is it? If it's something big, like a 90% reduction, they'd have a hard time outdamaging the natural health regeneration. And if they do tryhard enough and kill the unwilling player, they get punished for it. I'm curious to see how well it works when FO76 comes out, because I gotta admit, it sounds clever.

It does sound interesting and clever. I'm really looking forward to Fallout 76.

Watchdog

max_only wrote: »

If your health bar is 16k while picking flowers and turning in quests, a 90% reduction on the damage of a pvp player is still going to be terrible if they are insistent on fighting.

Or 10 of them come for 100% damage total.

Acrolas

I'm in favor of more structured, objectives-based PVP modes being added to ESO.

If you want to randomly act like a turd toward other players, I guess go play Fallout 76 during launch week.

Watchdog

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

sounds Awesome let's do it.
make the game soo much more fun and realistic.
i have been asking for open world pvp since beta.

That would ultimately leave you in an empty open world, with only the NPC's and a few other griefers moaning and whining because of the lack of people to grief.

Your idea would kill ESO.

Gilvoth

Watchdog wrote: »

runagate wrote: »

Watching the Fallout 76 panel on Twitch.

I'm gonna say this because a lot of others are going to, as well: I want this in ESO.

When you attack another player you just do a little damage. If you engage, then both do full damage.

You can, eventually, whittle someone down and kill them that's unwilling. But they then become a "wanted murderer" and you can't get caps or xp during that time, and others get rewards for hunting you down and killing you. Thus griefing removes most rewards. But instead creates "interesting content"

No, thanks, I am happy to have found a game that allows me to quest without people like you bothering me with PvP. You have Cyrodiil and consensual duels for PvP.

The autodecline duel function in ESO is awesome.

that same thing would happen in open world pvp, all you would have to do is turn OFF pvp.

Valkysas154

I have a feeling there will be so much backlash / cancelled orders they will remove this any way.

RoyalPink06

Fallout 76 is a different animal and has its own identity. ESO is perfect the way it is (strictly speaking within the context of the topic of this thread). To change ESO now would be the death of it.

Watchdog

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Watchdog wrote: »

runagate wrote: »

Watching the Fallout 76 panel on Twitch.

I'm gonna say this because a lot of others are going to, as well: I want this in ESO.

When you attack another player you just do a little damage. If you engage, then both do full damage.

You can, eventually, whittle someone down and kill them that's unwilling. But they then become a "wanted murderer" and you can't get caps or xp during that time, and others get rewards for hunting you down and killing you. Thus griefing removes most rewards. But instead creates "interesting content"

No, thanks, I am happy to have found a game that allows me to quest without people like you bothering me with PvP. You have Cyrodiil and consensual duels for PvP.

The autodecline duel function in ESO is awesome.

that same thing would happen in open world pvp, all you would have to do is turn OFF pvp.

Well, it is basically there already, you ask for a duel, I autodecline it. No need for a change, then.

Tandor

zParallaxz wrote: »

runagate wrote: »

Watching the Fallout 76 panel on Twitch.

I'm gonna say this because a lot of others are going to, as well: I want this in ESO.

When you attack another player you just do a little damage. If you engage, then both do full damage.

You can, eventually, whittle someone down and kill them that's unwilling. But they then become a "wanted murderer" and you can't get caps or xp during that time, and others get rewards for hunting you down and killing you. Thus griefing removes most rewards. But instead creates "interesting content"

Bro that’s what essentially the justice system was going to be. I for one would of loved it and many would learn to love also. The reason it was scrapped was due to over whelming pve players complaining, EVEN THOUGH THE OPTION WAS GOING TO BE OFF AUTOMATICALLY IN THE MENU.

Actually, the main reason it was dropped was because ZOS knew they couldn't eliminate exploits. It was inevitable that mates would get together to play "Criminals and Enforcers" and feed each other xp and rewards etc. It's also true, of course, that they saw with Imperial City that mixing PvP and PvE in the same areas was a total disaster and one that they announced they wouldn't be repeating again.

As for open world PvP generally, it's undoubtedly the case that a lot of players would quit over it. Even if it was purely optional the effect on non-participants' performance would be an issue. It could only work with separate PvE and PvP servers which would be completely contrary to the megaserver setup. The cost and distraction of providing all that would be out of all proportion to the likely level of interest especially over the long term.

If Fallout 76 has open world PvP as default on all servers it will decimate the interest in the game, hopefully Bethesda aren't that daft and will have separate servers for it in which case it will be interesting to see how the different server populations turn out.