4 years and I've been doing it wrong. Still can't get 10k DPS. :'(

Violynne

What's the difference between weapon damage and spell damage?

Sounds simple, right? But let's focus on a specific weapon: the staff.

For years, I believe the damage was dictated by spell damage, because the weapon never makes contact with the enemy. Today, someone told me all weapons get their base damage from weapon damage, no matter what.

To say I'm angry is an understatement. I just tried it out by changing my mundus stone and sure enough, my staff damage went up by 257 changing to Thief on my magSorc.

I'm pretty much getting tired of the game, honestly. I can't even break 10k on a f[censored]ing dummy throwing everything I have at it, and these things don't fight back. Now that I see my weapon damage may be at fault, and I don't even know what to do at this point. I want to do dungeons with groups, but if I can't even do a measly 10k, the minimum 25k is out of the question.

What I'm wearing:
5x Julianos w/Divines
5x Elegant
2x Assassin's Guile (inferno, lightning) w/Nirnhoned

Magicka pool is nearly 39k.

Every video and topic says to keep AoEs down, AC, and repeat, and this should easily break 10k.

Nope. My max out of 3 runs was 8500 and that was after changing Mundus to Thief on my Altmer magSorc.

I'm about fed up with this game. It shouldn't be this [censored] complicated to play it.

So, any advice or should I just go play Skyrim?

redspecter23

If you use julianos and elegant, you should be able to point a lightning staff at the dummy and hold the left mouse button to get 10k. Not trying to be snarky at all. Just try that out as a baseline to see what you're at.

Violynne

redspecter23 wrote: »

If you use julianos and elegant, you should be able to point a lightning staff at the dummy and hold the left mouse button to get 10k. Not trying to be snarky at all. Just try that out as a baseline to see what you're at.

I didn't read this as snarky, because that's pretty much what I expect too. I just crafted my Nirnhoned staff today after spending 2 hours rummaging Craglorn for the Nirncrux.

The only thing I can think of is my numbers drop because it's a 3.5M dummy, and I'm sure I flub up a few times during the 6-7 minute attack, but to not even hit 10k minimum tells me something's wrong.

Either with me or my game.

RedRook

Only weapons that restore stamina with a heavy attack get their damage from weapon damage. For staves, you were right: it's spell damage that matters.

Source: St Gilliam the Rogue

With WOE and heavy attacks only I'm at almost 9k on a mageblade with a smaller magicka pool than yours; I'm perplexed by your under 10k-ness too, particularly with 5 pieces of Elegant.

JWinHD

Can I see a video of your DPS test?

Violynne

I just ran 3 two minute tests using nothing but HA + Mages' Wrath + Power Surge and my average DPS is 4.5k. I have 38.2k Magicka, my spell damage (if staff doesn't use weapon damage stat) is 2156 and my spell crit is 48.2% (I see quite a few crit hits).

4.5k dps. This is ridiculous.

No wonder I keep dying. I'm hitting as hard as a fly into a window.

Violynne

RedRook wrote: »

Only weapons that restore stamina with a heavy attack get their damage from weapon damage. For staves, you were right: it's spell damage that matters.

Interesting. I'll restore my Mundus stone to see if changes back.

Source: St Gilliam the Rogue

Who?

With WOE and heavy attacks only I'm at almost 9k on a mageblade with a smaller magicka pool than yours; I'm perplexed by your under 10k-ness too, particularly with 5 pieces of Elegant.

Me too. This isn't the only character suffering from very low dps. My stamblade can't hit above 8k either, and she's wearing Hundings + nirnhoned weapons + another set whose name I forget for the weapon dmg increase.

I've been working all my characters since the 5/5/2 change. None can hit above 10k.

RedRook

Violynne wrote: »

RedRook wrote: »

Only weapons that restore stamina with a heavy attack get their damage from weapon damage. For staves, you were right: it's spell damage that matters.

Interesting. I'll restore my Mundus stone to see if changes back.

Source: St Gilliam the Rogue

Who?

With WOE and heavy attacks only I'm at almost 9k on a mageblade with a smaller magicka pool than yours; I'm perplexed by your under 10k-ness too, particularly with 5 pieces of Elegant.

Me too. This isn't the only character suffering from very low dps. My stamblade can't hit above 8k either, and she's wearing Hundings + nirnhoned weapons + another set whose name I forget for the weapon dmg increase.

I've been working all my characters since the 5/5/2 change. None can hit above 10k.

Gilliam the Rogue - he has a lot of useful stuff on YouTube, breaks down all the various math and explains it in a friendly sort of way. Highly recommended, might want to go search for those just for all that general info. ZOS hired him recently though, so no more new stuff will be coming to his channel.

If you're not weaving light attacks, you're going to take a hit - a bigger hit now than ever, since they buffed them - but not this big a hit. Same with forgoing elemental drain, you take a hit, but not this big. Your gear seems fine. Can't imagine what's going on with your deeps, but I'm interested to hear about it when you figure it out!

Violynne

Thanks. I'll check out his channel for more insight.

Morgul667

This is not normal so ill ask stupid questions, are you crafted sets cp160?

Violynne

Morgul667 wrote: »

This is not normal so ill ask stupid questions, are you crafted sets cp160?

Yes, and legendary. All enchants legendary. Only jewelry is purple.

I haven't played the magSorc much until recently, and saw she was getting creamed by mobs. I put Elegant on her today (after getting to legendary) and crafted new staves (Nirnhoned).

I expected her to get better, not worse.

GreenHere

Try this, and let us know:

Get Elemental Susceptibility from the Destruction Staff skill line, and put it on your bar. You don't need the Drain morph, since you'll be doing nothing but heavy attacks.

Get Inner Light from the Mages Guild skill line, put it on your bar. It'll increase your stats in a very meaningful way.

Get a skill (or use a potion if you prefer) that gives you the Major Sorcery buff to boost your Spell Damage by 20%. It's different for different classes, and unless I missed it you didn't mention yours. Here's a list of buffs and where they can be had, if you need it. MAJOR SORCERY is the one you need.

Get Elemental Blockade, and put it on your bar. This is a staple dps skill for magicka users. If you're using a Lightning staff, Blockade lasts for exactly three heavy attacks.

Get a heal and/or shield to help keep you alive during fights, and put it on your bar. You don't need it for dummy testing, but you don't need an empty skill slot either.

SO, that's 5 skills on your bar. You even get to pick whatever Ultimate you like best, just for funsies. (Elemental Rage recommended, though)
- First apply the Susceptibility to weaken the target. EDIT:: This morph makes the debuff last as long as you're fighting the target; you never have to reapply it. ::EDIT
- Then do whatever you need to get the Major Sorcery buff going (and do it again before it runs out, you want this at all times).
- Then put down the Blockade under your target, and heavy attack away! Reapply Blockade after three heavies.
- Drop your Ultimate when it comes up. Don't worry about trying to time it with Off-Balance or anything like that. Just drop it like it's hot.
- That's it. You don't need to activate Inner Light, ever. It's on the bar to provide entirely passive bonuses.

If you aren't getting 10k with that, then you may want to try changing gear.
Undaunted Infiltrator is a good set for boosting Lightning Staff heavy attacks. It comes from Arx Corinium, an easyish dungeon on normal. Torug's Pact is a good set too, and can be easily crafted. Try different Glyphs on your staff. Shock glyphs do well, especially with Torug's boosting them. Maybe experiment with different Mundus stones too. Thief, Mage, Apprentice, and Lover should all be good choices. At the level of dps we're looking at, I wouldn't expect any of them to be far ahead of the others, though. Lover would be my guess for the winner.

You can hit 10k pretty easily if you're in CP levels and have the right gear. You just need to gear up for your strengths, and not fall into the trap of trying to emulate what others can achieve. I've helped a fair few people with disabilities or disinclinations to doing the standard weaving/animation canceling/skillskillskillskill off cool down thing that most people think of as "easy". The thing I noticed in each of those situations was they were aspiring to guides not made with people like them in mind. Try this one-bar, no-swapping, no-animation-canceling setup. Even with your current gear, I think you'll see an improvement.

Sorry for the Great Wall of Text ;P

Skullstachio

@Violynne wrote: »

What's the difference between weapon damage and spell damage?

Sounds simple, right? But let's focus on a specific weapon: the staff.

For years, I believe the damage was dictated by spell damage, because the weapon never makes contact with the enemy. Today, someone told me all weapons get their base damage from weapon damage, no matter what.

To say I'm angry is an understatement. I just tried it out by changing my mundus stone and sure enough, my staff damage went up by 257 changing to Thief on my magSorc.

I'm pretty much getting tired of the game, honestly. I can't even break 10k on a f[censored]ing dummy throwing everything I have at it, and these things don't fight back. Now that I see my weapon damage may be at fault, and I don't even know what to do at this point. I want to do dungeons with groups, but if I can't even do a measly 10k, the minimum 25k is out of the question.

What I'm wearing:
5x Julianos w/Divines
5x Elegant
2x Assassin's Guile (inferno, lightning) w/Nirnhoned

Magicka pool is nearly 39k.

Every video and topic says to keep AoEs down, AC, and repeat, and this should easily break 10k.

Nope. My max out of 3 runs was 8500 and that was after changing Mundus to Thief on my Altmer magSorc.

I'm about fed up with this game. It shouldn't be this [censored] complicated to play it.

So, any advice or should I just go play Skyrim?

Whoever told you that all weapons get their damage from weapon damage is obviously Lying to you through their teeth, because I can tell you right now through my 3 years of elder scrolls on console, that Spell Damage And Max Magicka (about 6% of it) dictates how much damage you do with Magicka abilities, Restoration and Destruction Staves and their abilities.

5x Julianos w/Divines
5x Elegant
2x Assassin's Guile (inferno, lightning) w/Nirnhoned

From the Armor you wear, I see that the 2 assassins guile is what’s holding back your Damage, because for all I know, you could be rocking two five piece sets and a monster set on the Head and Shoulders, and as for elegance, try using Rattlecage or Bahrahas Curse, the reason for rattlecage is so sorcerers can resort to critical surge for increased healing on critical hits, but otherwise, You could also try the Scathing Mage set dropped in the White Gold Tower dungeon which increases your spell damage drastically for 6 seconds 20% of the time when you land a critical hit.

In short: Juliana’s is good for beginners, I recommend the Apprentice stone which increases “Spell Damage” (you can find it in the rift, bangkorai or reapers March.)[/i) I would recommend switching out elegance for something else, and I recommend replacing the two assassins guile weapons with a monster set, if necessary, I’ll include some links to a list of sets from the UESP.

Also, I think you may be somewhat Semi-familiar with “Rotations” as rotations are key to being able to output near maximum damage output, but always remember, with each parse on a dummy, there will always be different results, no matter how miniscule. That is why one can only practice until you have it down real well.

Craftable Sets
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Craftable_Sets

Dungeon Sets
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Dungeon_Sets

Overland Sets
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Overland_Sets

Monster Helm Sets
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Monster_Helm_Sets

GreenHere

I should add, Undaunted Infiltrator is a Medium armor set, so ideally you'd need 3 jewels that you can transmute into Arcane, and two armor pieces (Chest and Legs are my recommendation). You may already know, but you DEFINITELY want 5 pieces of Light armor for the passive bonuses they provide, so the two Medium Infiltrator pieces are all you can afford, unless you luck out and get a Lightning Staff.

If you can swing it, try getting any Magicka-based monster set. I'm not on Xbox, or I'd be happy to take you through any non-DLC dungeon you like, dps be damned. I'm confident there are kind souls on all platforms willing to do the same. Valkyn Skoria would help you a lot, me thinks.

Violynne

Alpha-Lupi wrote: »

From the Armor you wear, I see that the 2 assassins guile is what’s holding back your Damage, because for all I know, you could be rocking two five piece sets and a monster set on the Head and Shoulders, and as for elegance, try using Rattlecage or Bahrahas Curse

The AG is only on the staves, for the extra spell damage. It's the only set which offers this at 2. I could go for extra magica, but I'd rather have the spell damage.

I haven't done any dungeons. With 4.5k dps, I'd be kicked for knocking on the door. The entire purpose of me figuring out what's going on is so I can do dungeons. I won't let a group carry me.

Elegant was upgraded today. I had them for some time, but worked on my sorc today to get her 5/5/2.

Beginner is fine for me. I have to start somewhere.

Thanks for the help. I'll keep this in mind when I'm no longer a beginner.

Violynne

GreenHere wrote: »

If you can swing it, try getting any Magicka-based monster set. I'm not on Xbox, or I'd be happy to take you through any non-DLC dungeon you like, dps be damned. I'm confident there are kind souls on all platforms willing to do the same. Valkyn Skoria would help you a lot, me thinks.

LOL. At this rate, a girl scout cookie would help me.

I'm now confident there's something wrong with my game. I think an update may have gone awry because I also get weird issues in the game, like lute players in dungeons. Today, the sound just cut completely out.

Man, this kills my Sunday play time. All day investigating this issue and now I have to reinstall.

Now, I cry.

Skullstachio

Hmm...

Might I ask what abilities you use?

Smitch_59

I share the OP's frustration.

My wife and I have both been playing on Xbox for just over three years. ESO was our first and only MMO; we play ESO because we were huge Elder Scrolls fans, not MMO fans. We are both at max CP. Yet, my best character can only crit for 25K max, with sustained damage barely over 10K, and my wife can't even do that much DPS. We've had lots of fun grouping for overland content, delves, and a few non-vet dungeons. We've dabbled in PvP but we didn't enjoy it very much. It feels like we're stuck, unable to progress beyond our current plateau.

I've watched YouTube videos, but as already mentioned many of them are 2 or 3 years old, so I don't know much of it is still valid. Also, I try to visit these forums for tips but so much of what I read here is so full of acronyms and unfamiliar MMO terms that I often don't get much out of it. There's definitely a learning curve that I seem to be unable to overcome.

So lately I've been feeling frustrated and bored with the game. About all I ever do any more is writs. Summerset was fun, as it gave us some new quests in a new zone, but now that we've finished those quests, I'm thinking that I need a break. Maybe it's time to revisit Elder Scrolls III, now that it's backward-compatible.

Skullstachio

When parsing on a skeleton dummy, I find that I do three rounds against the dummy, add up all the DPS from the 3 rounds and divide it by 2, you may find some interesting results.

smacx250

You really don't need to keep shuffling your gear to get to this level. As a MagSorc, you should also grab liquid lightning, and keep that up along with elemental blockade. You should hit 10K DPS just with elemental blockade, liquid lightning, and lightning heavy attacks - ulti is gravy. I'd recommend to throw in a spell damage buff (and healing) with power surge. A pretty easy rotation (though not optimal) that you should be able to sustain is:

* power surge
* 3 x (elemental blockade, liquid lightning, 3x lightning heavy attack)

Repeat above until done.

For general solo type activities, if you need some more self-protection, mines does good damage and CC's (cast first and back up to put it between you and the mobs), and hardened ward is a strong shield. Keep the DoTs up as they will give you good heals with power surge. You can kite around the mobs to help keep them in your DoTs.

Violynne

I've a new update!

A player who reads the forums helped me out and we discovered the issue was my controller. The right trigger wasn't doing AC correctly, which lead me to believe it was. Once he showed me, and I repeated, the LA just didn't fire off as it should (at least fast enough for the AC to kick in).

He also recommended I make an adjustment with my jewelry, which I did. I also restored the Apprentice mundus stone, and playing around briefly, I finally hit 10k!

Can't wait to see what I can do once the controller is replaced.

Thanks to all for your help!

RedRook

Violynne wrote: »

I've a new update!

A player who reads the forums helped me out and we discovered the issue was my controller. The right trigger wasn't doing AC correctly, which lead me to believe it was. Once he showed me, and I repeated, the LA just didn't fire off as it should (at least fast enough for the AC to kick in).

He also recommended I make an adjustment with my jewelry, which I did. I also restored the Apprentice mundus stone, and playing around briefly, I finally hit 10k!

Can't wait to see what I can do once the controller is replaced.

Thanks to all for your help!

Ah ha! Hardware glitch!

Good, identified and easily fixed, best kind of problem.

Kikke

Hey, you can take these tips as you self please. Tho they have helped TONS of sorcs running around on EU xD

Build: Yours is Ok, no real need for change. Tho you might want too replace the 2 parts with a monster set, Ilambris works fine
and is easy to get.

Bars: If your able to use your backbar a tiny bit you can allways run backbar buffbar for Drain and frontbar DPS bar.

So front bar would be [Inner light, Power Surge. Elemental Blockade, liquid lightning, Bound Aegis - Destro Ult]

Rotation: Keep power surge up 100%,and if you're using a backbar then keep drain up 100% aswell.
Then rotation will be Liquid Lightning -> Elemental Blockade -> 3x Heavy Attacks - then repeat.

CP: abit to tired now, but CP is abit important. Just split 50 or so into what looks logical for now xD

With these steps you should EASLY do 20k+ dps. Enjoy

nuttytom

Violynne wrote: »

I just ran 3 two minute tests using nothing but HA + Mages' Wrath + Power Surge

Why no liquid lightning, elemental blockade, curse?

BozzyTheDrummer

For a while, I thought I was doing great, damage wise. I was running dungeons with friends, but I noticed it was taking me WAY too long to kill things.

Came to the forums to ask some questions about what I am doing wrong. Some users on here (who have been very, very helpful) advised me to try a test dummy. I did just that, on a 6m health dummy. I think it was taking me over 5 minutes to get it to zero and I was doing no more the 5.5K DPS.

After some insight from a user on here, giving me instructions on what skills to use, what gear to use, rotations, etc...I followed all of it.

The end result came after about a month of testing.

I had a friend craft me some gear that I could not yet craft, and I farmed the rest. My gear is as follows:

On both bars: 5/5 Julianos, 5/5 Necropotence and 2/2 Ilambris (also use skoria, but I get better DPS with Ilambris)

Julianos: Chest, Gloves, Shoes - light armor - divines, 2 lightning staves - infused.
Necropotence: Sash, Legs - light armor - one divines, one infused, 2 rings and necklace - arcane
Ilambris Head and shoulders - Head is heavy and shoulders are light - Infused
All max magicka enchants. Think my jewelry is magicka recovery.

Mundus stone; The Lover. I have tried my rotations with The Mage and The Apprentice stones, but my DPS is higher with The Lover.

Skills:

Frontbar (Infused Lightning Staff of Julianos - Shock Enchant): Deadric Prey - Volatile Familiar - Hardened Ward - Twilight Matriarch - Inner Light | Ulti: Elemental Rage

Backbar (Infused Lightning Staff of Julianos - Weapon Damage Enchant): Power Surge - Volatile familiar - Liquid Lightning - Twilight Matriarch - Blockade of Storms | Ulti: Greater Storm Atronach

My Rotation once pets are summoned:

LA = Light Attack, HA = Heavy Attack, VF = Volatile Familiar's AoE ability

*On bosses I will start with Elemental Rage*

Power Surge > Blockade of Storms > LA >Liquid Lightning > LA > switch
Hardened Ward > Deadric Prey > HA > VF >HA > Switch

On the 6m health dummy, I can take it to 0 in about 2 minutes 50 seconds and deal out 19K-20K DPS each time.

With the Mage or Apprentice stones, my DPS is about 18.5K-19K.

I am currently in the process of switching my Julianos pieces to Mothers Sorrow, so we will see how that goes.

Also, my only gold gear are my two staves, chest and legs. Everything else is purple.

I really hope this information helps you. I too got extremely frustrated when i found out what my numbers are. I am only cp431, and was in the mid 200's when I first started using this gear/rotation.

You can do it!

BozzyTheDrummer

Alpha-Lupi wrote: »

When parsing on a skeleton dummy, I find that I do three rounds against the dummy, add up all the DPS from the 3 rounds and divide it by 2, you may find some interesting results.

@Alpha-Lupi Wait, sorry for a dumb question, but what does this do? I will try this lol

Skayaq

BozzyTheDrummer wrote: »

Alpha-Lupi wrote: »

When parsing on a skeleton dummy, I find that I do three rounds against the dummy, add up all the DPS from the 3 rounds and divide it by 2, you may find some interesting results.

@Alpha-Lupi Wait, sorry for a dumb question, but what does this do? I will try this lol

The only thing that will do is artificially inflate your numbers by about 50%, it's completely meaningless.

Dubhliam

If you play on PC, what I find is the best way (for me) to give advice to people is if they send me a Screenshot of their build, using the Superstar addon.

Download BOTH links:
http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info946-SuperStar-CharacterBuilder.html
http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1928-SuperStar-DragonBonesUpdate.html

Hekatia

Sorry, it doesn’t allow me to start a new thread but my question is similar.

I would appreciate some tips on improving DPS from experienced players. I run a mag blade, a Magicka sorcerer, and I stand blade and am almost to 400 CP. I followed Alcast’s builds with only one or two skill modifications when I noticed something isn’t working well for me. I also use recommended dungeon armor sets as well as the two piece sets from veteran hard mode. Sets like Burning Spellweave, Mother’s Sorrow, Ilambris, Selene which may not quite be best in slot but from what I’ve read in the forums and the builds they seem to be solid and fairly competitive. All purple gear. I run the recommended drink buff, usually which mothers brew or dubious Camoran throne. I’m solid but not a superstar in PVP battle grounds, usually more kills than deaths and sometimes much more, and consistently many assists, usually score 2000s-low 3000s. I’ve read the forums and watch the videos and have practiced light attack weaving and heavy attack weaving which I do fairly consistently in dungeon runs. Sometimes I miss a weave but overall I get it in on most hits.

However, my DPS on vet dungeons is still 10-17k for single targets and 24-35k for AoE. Sometimes I get a pick up group where the other DPS is pulling 25-40k on single targets and I’m the weak link. I’m keeping my buffs and DOTs on uptime and at least from my perspective feel like I’m doing my class combos okay. I do look at my damage output regularly and evaluate what I need to improve, and this has resulted in incremental improvement but nothing spectacular.

I’d like to contribute more dps on vet mode and wonder how they do it. Usually they are a couple hundred CP above me, But from what I’ve understood, there are diminishing returns with higher champion points anyway. And probably they have more best in slot year. They may also use more buff potions for the boss fights, which I plan on starting doing more this week but haven’t done much before. And I’ll grant that they are more experienced players who may be more adept at the mechanics.

Still, I am lost as to how these veteran players are putting down 2 to 3 times as much DPS is I am. I understand that slightly better equipment, a potion buff, or slightly better proficiency at some of the combos and weaving might be able to explain marginally higher dps, maybe 50% or so. But 2-3x? The absolute numbers from the endgame set differences or weaving in an extra light attack somewhere are small and don’t seem to me to explain this discrepancy. On the other hand, maybe I’m a mediocre player who is in denial or lacks key skills.

I’d appreciate any tips from players who are routinely pulling down 25K plus single target DPS. How do you do it? What do I need to do to get better? I can also post my setups and action bars if need be. If there’s a secret meta someone would let me in on it would be much appreciated.

Dubhliam

@Hekatia I would once again give you the same advice I gave above:
Download the Superstar addon and the patch for it so we can have a detailed look at your build.

If you don't want your build to be public knowledge, you can always send the screenshot in a personal message.

My experience tells me people miss out on some important details from the build(s) they are trying to mimic, such as jewelry enchants.

Merlin13KAGL

Alpha-Lupi wrote: »

Whoever told you that all weapons get their damage from weapon damage is obviously Lying to you through their teeth, because I can tell you right now through my 3 years of elder scrolls on console, that Spell Damage And Max Magicka (about 6% of it) dictates how much damage you do with Magicka abilities, Restoration and Destruction Staves and their abilities.

Apparently it's taken you three years to be horribly wrong.

Alpha-Lupi wrote: »

When parsing on a skeleton dummy, I find that I do three rounds against the dummy, add up all the DPS from the 3 rounds and divide it by 2, you may find some interesting results.

And when you follow up with this, I'm gonna recommend you don't give any more advice. To anyone. Ever.