one last try on bows

barbarian340

i still dont understand why we dont have a ranged stamina option that is viable in endgame like we do for magic...ppl say bows arent a main weapon...but thats because the game made it so...they're the main weapon for many people in the lore...for goodness sakes, archers are some of the most popular figures when you think about the combat in this era...simply because the game developers chose to make them a secondary weapon doesnt mean they should remain so

magic has a ranged option...stamina should too....devs please make this happen...even if it is something as simple as a passive for all bow users (not tied to gear, but an inherited passive that can benefit anyone of any level) that gives double the damage output if they have a bow on each bar...that way the bow buff wouldnt cause builds with bow as the back bar to be OP...

a rework of some of the lesser used powers in bow would be nice too

Epona222

2016 called and wants its complaint back...

Bows are ok now, the bow ult is really good, several abilities are pretty much essential for stam builds in both PvE and PvP

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/381498/everything-needed-to-know-about-bow-bow-in-pve/p1

starkerealm

While I agree that the bow could use some love, I wouldn't pay too much attention to the whole, "you can't use a bow for DPS at endgame." It does require a different outlook, but bows can deliver more than enough damage to clear any endgame content.

barbarian340

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/381498/everything-needed-to-know-about-bow-bow-in-pve/p1

isnt this outdated?

starkerealm

barbarian340 wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/381498/everything-needed-to-know-about-bow-bow-in-pve/p1

isnt this outdated?

No, that was updated on the 17th. Also, I know @Xynode has at least one dual bow build that's current.

coplannb16_ESO

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/410499/shadow-thorn-stamina-nb-42k-dps-bow-bow-build-summerset#latest

more damage than many magDK builds, lolz

Jamdarius

Bows are ok, ppl playing them are not... From healer experience: bow/bow tends to stand outside of springs/blossom, gets behind healer even though healer said stand in front of me even though I said I am not templar healer and need them all in front of me, they do not receive combat prayer because they tend to stand behind me, they needlessly dodge roll 24/7 and I end up thinking they are pro heal avoiders instead of enemy damage (glad my warden healer got healing vines without it they would be constantly dead. Also they forget about shuffle/elude (you name it) and do not have the survivability dual wield or even 2 handed gives (brawler and rally). So far I have met only 3 pro bow/bow users, all were wardens 2 DPS and 1 amazing stam healer bowman. PS: Do not forget Bow got quite nice close range self heal Draining Shot, it is worth sloting if u have nothing better.

rumple9

They should do the bow line like staves - so we have long bows for single target DPS, crossbows for AOE and short bows for ranged tanking.

Current bow line is woefully inadequate

Epona222

rumple9 wrote: »

They should do the bow line like staves - so we have long bows for single target DPS, crossbows for AOE and short bows for ranged tanking.

Current bow line is woefully inadequate

I can't imagine having to switch bars between a ranged single target weapon and a ranged AOE weapon skill bar tbh... that sounds horrendous and more limiting than liberating.

Toc de Malsvi

Archers work. Could use some love, but they are functional. Archers are not BiS, that is all.

Sparr0w

rumple9 wrote: »

They should do the bow line like staves - so we have long bows for single target DPS, crossbows for AOE and short bows for ranged tanking.

Current bow line is woefully inadequate

DW = Inferno
2H = Shock
1h/s = Ice

Bows =/= Resto, these are just extra.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

barbarian340 wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/381498/everything-needed-to-know-about-bow-bow-in-pve/p1

isnt this outdated?

maybe actually read the thread before asking such an easily answerable question? if every bow/bow user would read what @SodanTok has there, there would be no stigma against them, his guild is simmply of the best. i personally have a bowden, it is a lot of fun, gets as much dps as the other 6 dps i have, around 30k dps, mostly cause i suck at weaving.

SodanTok

barbarian340 wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/381498/everything-needed-to-know-about-bow-bow-in-pve/p1

isnt this outdated?

I try to keep it up (see changelog)

But yes many things changed since the guide creation. There are some good builds now doing numbers well above what is considered just viable for most vet trials (tho obv still falling behind dw or magic), so most of the guide goal is now helping people not knowing much to know more and reach those numbers (even if not the highest possible).

Builds worth mentioning are (already linked up) Masel92's build or few builds on fearturbo's site

notyuu

barbarian340 wrote: »

i still dont understand why we dont have a ranged stamina option that is viable in endgame like we do for magic

magic has a ranged option...stamina should too....

For the same reason that we have no melee magicka options, also known as the devs hate the idea of flexibility and fun

TheInfernalRage

Jamdarius wrote: »

Bows are ok, ppl playing them are not... From healer experience: bow/bow tends to stand outside of springs/blossom, gets behind healer even though healer said stand in front of me even though I said I am not templar healer and need them all in front of me, they do not receive combat prayer because they tend to stand behind me, they needlessly dodge roll 24/7 and I end up thinking they are pro heal avoiders instead of enemy damage (glad my warden healer got healing vines without it they would be constantly dead. Also they forget about shuffle/elude (you name it) and do not have the survivability dual wield or even 2 handed gives (brawler and rally). So far I have met only 3 pro bow/bow users, all were wardens 2 DPS and 1 amazing stam healer bowman. PS: Do not forget Bow got quite nice close range self heal Draining Shot, it is worth sloting if u have nothing better.

I have experienced this so many times. Their logic is: because I am using bow, I must be very far away even to the back of the healer. Although there is indeed a passive that grants more damage with greater distance, but that's just an added bonus. All my bow/bow builds in all classes are designed to be just like staves users and not right there out of the visual range of the healers.

Epona222

TheInfernalRage wrote: »

Jamdarius wrote: »

Bows are ok, ppl playing them are not... From healer experience: bow/bow tends to stand outside of springs/blossom, gets behind healer even though healer said stand in front of me even though I said I am not templar healer and need them all in front of me, they do not receive combat prayer because they tend to stand behind me, they needlessly dodge roll 24/7 and I end up thinking they are pro heal avoiders instead of enemy damage (glad my warden healer got healing vines without it they would be constantly dead. Also they forget about shuffle/elude (you name it) and do not have the survivability dual wield or even 2 handed gives (brawler and rally). So far I have met only 3 pro bow/bow users, all were wardens 2 DPS and 1 amazing stam healer bowman. PS: Do not forget Bow got quite nice close range self heal Draining Shot, it is worth sloting if u have nothing better.

I have experienced this so many times. Their logic is: because I am using bow, I must be very far away even to the back of the healer. Although there is indeed a passive that grants more damage with greater distance, but that's just an added bonus. All my bow/bow builds in all classes are designed to be just like staves users and not right there out of the visual range of the healers.

I agree, there's a sort of mentality whereby "I am using a bow therefore I need to be behind everyone else". Bow skills do have quite a long range compared to others, but actually a lot of the time they are no less effective at melee range and a bow user can position themselves closer to mobs in PvE in front of (and in view of) a healer in a group without losing any capability

JobooAGS

Jamdarius wrote: »

Bows are ok, ppl playing them are not... From healer experience: bow/bow tends to stand outside of springs/blossom, gets behind healer even though healer said stand in front of me even though I said I am not templar healer and need them all in front of me, they do not receive combat prayer because they tend to stand behind me, they needlessly dodge roll 24/7 and I end up thinking they are pro heal avoiders instead of enemy damage (glad my warden healer got healing vines without it they would be constantly dead. Also they forget about shuffle/elude (you name it) and do not have the survivability dual wield or even 2 handed gives (brawler and rally). So far I have met only 3 pro bow/bow users, all were wardens 2 DPS and 1 amazing stam healer bowman. PS: Do not forget Bow got quite nice close range self heal Draining Shot, it is worth sloting if u have nothing better.

Yeah bows at best are "OK". They arent competitive when compared to mag ranged otherwise you would see more of them. Draining shot is less useful than you think as the target had to be stunned to work (useless on bosses) and is only 10 m (so nearly useless in pvp, in fact is it the worse ranged cc. With its pitiful range, it is also dodgeable reflectable and even with its max range of 16 m, you are still in danger and inngap closer range. Honestly, it needs a buff. At leaat a buff to range, say 20 m).

People standing away from heals and boss is likely due to the fact that one of their passives encourages them to be at range (longshots) I say rework the pasive completely to something that helps bow users but not so much to melee stam. Here are a couple of examples.

1. Piercing arrows: For each stack of hawk eye above 5 on a single target, increase the damage taken on the target hit by 1% for a maximum of 5/10%. (Numbers can be tweaked, primarily used to give bow users some group utility. Can be made unstackble by 2 bow users or more)
2. Archer's discipline: For 5 or more stacks of hawk eye, gain a damage shield equal to 3/5% of your max health for 5 (2?) seconds for each additional stack. Once shield drops, shield counter is reset. (Give bow users some survivability reward for maintaining damage on the same target. Number can be tweaked)

Edit:

Option 3:
Hunter's respite: When you have 5 or more stacks of hawkeye on the same target, for each additional light attack you restore 50/100 stamina for each additonal heavy attack you restore an additonal 150/250 stamina.

Edit 2: numbers

DanteYoda

Staff > Bow in every way shape and form.. Ping affects bows way more, ground terrain effects bows skills... Honestly it needs a overhaul just like melee does..


Other than niche uses in PvP bows are obsolete in ESO.

coplannb16_ESO

yep, 42K DPS with Bow/Bow is totally obsolete... /sarcasm

fgulerneb18_ESO1

if u dont know how to dps in eso doesnt matter you are stamina or magicka.

JobooAGS

coplannb16_ESO wrote: »

yep, 42K DPS with Bow/Bow is totally obsolete... /sarcasm

I can hit that on my bowblade too, but I can hit 50k+ on my meleeblade and I know magblades that can hit 45k+.

Kuramas9tails

You have to remember, what they change for PVE will change for PVP.

FrancisCrawford

How about Imbue Weapon (whatever the stamina morph is called)? Is that a good bow spammable, or does Snipe (which morph?) wind up being better?

yurimodin

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

How about Imbue Weapon (whatever the stamina morph is called)? Is that a good bow spammable, or does Snipe (which morph?) wind up being better?

bow sucks pretty bad up until you get poison injection........its poison injection or go home.

Kel

https://youtu.be/7L327LsoGLo

kongkim

Would love to play a good Bow Bow build.
But to all you saying its good. Will a Bow Bow build get me kicked from a trail?

JobooAGS

jabrone77 wrote: »

https://youtu.be/7L327LsoGLo

Interesting build...
Not the way I did it, but I managed 40k on the 6 mil with war machine rather than gryphon and I used birds rather than snipe (my raid leader allowed me to bring my Bowden to raids due to major slayer to ranged, off heals with lotus flower, and aoe major fracture).

One major criticism is that why didn’t you use caltrops?

Tandor

Bows are ok, as are the players using them. It's the outdated bias against them of some elitist players that is the problem.

That, at least, is the conclusion I draw from my reading of the forums, and as a solo-cooperative PvE player with many characters among which the main weapon bow users are definitely among the most efficient.