Obtain items quicker then you could as a single character against TOS?

Epona222

If you want to accuse me of cheating, do so by reporting me to Zenimax. They will look into the activity on all my accounts and find that you have wasted their time entirely.

Watchdog

I may not have understood the issue with hirelings correctly. Could someone clarify this for me, please?

I have three characters on my one and only ESO+ account. If I train all three of them as crafters and learn the hireling passives with each of them, would I be violating the rules by accepting the in-game mail from all the hirelings every day?

Epona222

Watchdog wrote: »

I may not have understood the issue with hirelings correctly. Could someone clarify this for me, please?

I have three characters on my one and only ESO+ account. If I train all three of them as crafters and learn the hireling passives with each of them, would I be violating the rules by accepting the in-game mail from all the hirelings every day?

Of course not

Malamar1229

Turelus wrote: »

You can have as many accounts and characters as you want.

You can't use any kind of automation to play multiple at once (this includes basic macros), however there is some leeway with add-ons (Lazy Writ Crafter) when it comes to automation.

You're not meant to log into two accounts at once and play them together, and it is technically against the ToS. I've not heard of anyone being banned for doing so but I personally wouldn't recommend it.

From the same computer....

I see nothing wrong with logging into two account from separate computers that are next to each other.

Jayman1000

starkerealm wrote: »

You want to log in on more than one at a time? You're on your own.

What do you mean "you're on your own"? Are you saying that logging into more than one account at a time is not allowed? If so, where is this specified? If not, then what do you mean with "you're on your own"?

Jayman1000

Epona222 wrote: »

I would have earned every reward as I would have had to fight for it separately on each character

I don't think this is relevant in this discussion, at least it does not apply to what were talking about. I could bring up players that get 100% carried. They do nothing, but staying near the carrier. They certainly didn't fight for anything and didn't earn the rewards, yet they aren't breaking any rules.

Merlin13KAGL

What you're describing without automation is basically impossible, unless you have 4 arms or some very talented feet, anyway.

I realize you probably won't, but I'd ask anyway. What specific thing are you wondering about, because I'm fairly certain you have something in mind, but have not provided said details..

TL;DR; You probably already knew the answer before you asked the question.

Epona222

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Exstazik wrote: »

I would have earned every reward as I would have had to fight for it separately on each character

I don't think this is relevant in this discussion, at least it does not apply to what were talking about. I could bring up players that get 100% carried. They do nothing, but staying near the carrier. They certainly didn't fight for anything and didn't earn the rewards, yet they aren't breaking any rules.

I want to correct you for the sake of clarity - you have muddled the quote - you are quoting something I said but in quote brackets that make it look as though someone else said it.

Even though you are quoting it and arguing with it, I feel the need to point out that you have got your quote brackets in a tizzy and are attributing something I said to another person, which is wrong. If you want to discuss it with me, that is fine, but don't misquote it to another poster and get on their back about it.

(And I don't do being carried - I take advice and try to better my performance, but I am not carried through content - it seems as though an awful lot of people have issues with me today for some reason - people who don't know me, and don't ever do content with me - just forum warriors no doubt).

Jayman1000

Epona222 wrote: »

I want to correct you for the sake of clarity - you have muddled the quote - you are quoting something I said but in quote brackets that make it look as though someone else said it.

Even though you are quoting it and arguing with it, I feel the need to point out that you have got your quote brackets in a tizzy and are attributing something I said to another person, which is wrong. If you want to discuss it with me, that is fine, but don't misquote it to another poster.

Whoops, Im sorry I didn't notice that. That certainly was not on purpose, I apologize for the confusion. Yes I was aware that it was you that said it I and I was trying to address you

Epona222

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

I want to correct you for the sake of clarity - you have muddled the quote - you are quoting something I said but in quote brackets that make it look as though someone else said it.

Even though you are quoting it and arguing with it, I feel the need to point out that you have got your quote brackets in a tizzy and are attributing something I said to another person, which is wrong. If you want to discuss it with me, that is fine, but don't misquote it to another poster.

Whoops, Im sorry I didn't notice that. That certainly was not on purpose, I apologize for the confusion. Yes I was aware that it was you that said it I and I was trying to address you

OK. What content have you seen me be carried through? Do we even play on the same server, or are you just making assumptions?

Watchdog

Epona222 wrote: »

Watchdog wrote: »

I may not have understood the issue with hirelings correctly. Could someone clarify this for me, please?

I have three characters on my one and only ESO+ account. If I train all three of them as crafters and learn the hireling passives with each of them, would I be violating the rules by accepting the in-game mail from all the hirelings every day?

Of course not

Thank you.

Epona222

And it is relevant, because the point I was making (even if it wasn't clear to everyone) was that if I beat a boss on 1 character, I could not simply loot that on all my other characters - which is where the thread starter seemed to take issue, because they thought I could beat a boss on 1 character then simply loot it on all my other characters with no effort because 1 of my characters killed it - which we all know is not possible.

Jayman1000

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

What you're describing without automation is basically impossible, unless you have 4 arms or some very talented feet, anyway.

I realize you probably won't, but I'd ask anyway. What specific thing are you wondering about, because I'm fairly certain you have something in mind, but have not provided said details..

TL;DR; You probably already knew the answer before you asked the question.

It's not impossible. Surely you can imagine how it is possible to login to two accounts, then first move character #1 then character #2 (thus not at the same time, but one after the other). So you could position character #1 in a dungeon close to a boss and then just play on #2 to defeat the boss while #1 stands idle by, but it would get loot and achievements from #2 defeating the boss. This is the type of situation we are debating whether is prohibited or not. Imo as I see the TOS there is nothing there that prohibits it. It mentions you can't play simultaneously (=at the same time). But in the scenario I just described I am only playing one account at a time; I am not multiboxing, I am not playing multiple characters/accounts simultaneously.

Merlin13KAGL

Exstazik wrote: »

I run several copies(accounts) of ESO .Group them.Stack at the center one by one of my farm circle.Then alt+tab on the first window which was killing mobs.After completing killing circle i alt+tab on 2d window and run by this circle to loot mobs.Then do it on window 3 and etc.I'm 100% know that was reported many times and have screenshots with chat where people whisper me about multiboxing/botting.
Since i do not use any programms/macros/software,have only 1 active(playing) account at the same time it's not multiboxing.ZOS told that i have advantage in loot.But i still need to run on each account by hands one by one to obtain it.

It changes the moment you group the characters together, because you're effectively increasing the drops rates on tradeable items.

Epona222 wrote: »

Exstazik wrote: »

Using multiple accounts can be considered " exploitation of in game resources" since its possible to obtain items quicker then you could as a single character. The terms of service can be read below for any further clarification.

Right, let's just sort this out. How is having multiple accounts, or even multiple characters, allowing you to get things faster in game?

Have you never experienced loading screens in this game? It's faster to get stuff if you DON'T relog!

The other problem is that you're not actively playing the game on the other accounts. Grouping and standing there in order to increase the number of characters that can loot a single kill, without those characters assisting in obtaining that kill is the dark grey area you're delving in.

4 man content ~= 1 man clearing while 3 others stand around, so man #1 can get more gear.

You can't realistically play multiple accounts at once without using automation. If you're not using automation, guess, what you're not actually playing multiple accounts at once.

If you're not playing the accounts, but you're still getting benefit as a result, you pretty much already know it's an issue.

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

You can have as many accounts and characters as you want.

You can't use any kind of automation to play multiple at once (this includes basic macros), however there is some leeway with add-ons (Lazy Writ Crafter) when it comes to automation.

You're not meant to log into two accounts at once and play them together, and it is technically against the ToS. I've not heard of anyone being banned for doing so but I personally wouldn't recommend it.

From the same computer....

I see nothing wrong with logging into two account from separate computers that are next to each other.

@Malamar1229 please upload video playing two accounts at the same time, not alternating back and forth, and not using automation.

Please explain to me how you can control two separate keyboards and two separate mice at the same time with only 10 fingers and 10 toes. Do that and we'll concede, otherwise I'm afraid your attempt at technicality is a tremendous failure.

There's nothing to figure out here. What's being proposed is vastly different than logging in to multiple characters in sequence to earn hireling mails and consolidating mats.

KraziJoe

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Please explain to me how you can control two separate keyboards and two separate mice at the same time with only 10 fingers and 10 toes. Do that and we'll concede, otherwise I'm afraid your attempt at technicality is a tremendous failure.

There's nothing to figure out here. What's being proposed is vastly different than logging in to multiple characters in sequence to earn hireling mails and consolidating mats.

It's pretty easy once you get it down...How do you think we did it many years ago with EQ, WOW, AC etc? We didn't have all the cool tools that are available today. If you wanted to play 2 toons at the same time, you set up 2 different boxes and maybe an A-B switch and go to town. And if you didn't have an AB switch, you used different Keyboard and Mice.

Merlin13KAGL

@KraziJoe so, you alternated between the accounts...

Epona222

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Exstazik wrote: »

I run several copies(accounts) of ESO .Group them.Stack at the center one by one of my farm circle.Then alt+tab on the first window which was killing mobs.After completing killing circle i alt+tab on 2d window and run by this circle to loot mobs.Then do it on window 3 and etc.I'm 100% know that was reported many times and have screenshots with chat where people whisper me about multiboxing/botting.
Since i do not use any programms/macros/software,have only 1 active(playing) account at the same time it's not multiboxing.ZOS told that i have advantage in loot.But i still need to run on each account by hands one by one to obtain it.

It changes the moment you group the characters together, because you're effectively increasing the drops rates on tradeable items.

Epona222 wrote: »

Using multiple accounts can be considered " exploitation of in game resources" since its possible to obtain items quicker then you could as a single character. The terms of service can be read below for any further clarification.

Right, let's just sort this out. How is having multiple accounts, or even multiple characters, allowing you to get things faster in game?

Have you never experienced loading screens in this game? It's faster to get stuff if you DON'T relog!

The other problem is that you're not actively playing the game on the other accounts. Grouping and standing there in order to increase the number of characters that can loot a single kill, without those characters assisting in obtaining that kill is the dark grey area you're delving in.

4 man content ~= 1 man clearing while 3 others stand around, so man #1 can get more gear.

You can't realistically play multiple accounts at once without using automation. If you're not using automation, guess, what you're not actually playing multiple accounts at once.

If you're not playing the accounts, but you're still getting benefit as a result, you pretty much already know it's an issue.

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

You can have as many accounts and characters as you want.

You can't use any kind of automation to play multiple at once (this includes basic macros), however there is some leeway with add-ons (Lazy Writ Crafter) when it comes to automation.

You're not meant to log into two accounts at once and play them together, and it is technically against the ToS. I've not heard of anyone being banned for doing so but I personally wouldn't recommend it.

From the same computer....

I see nothing wrong with logging into two account from separate computers that are next to each other.

@Malamar1229 please upload video playing two accounts at the same time, not alternating back and forth, and not using automation.

Please explain to me how you can control two separate keyboards and two separate mice at the same time with only 10 fingers and 10 toes. Do that and we'll concede, otherwise I'm afraid your attempt at technicality is a tremendous failure.

There's nothing to figure out here. What's being proposed is vastly different than logging in to multiple characters in sequence to earn hireling mails and consolidating mats.

[/quote]

Look, you're STILL messing up quotes - I did NOT say the things you have attributed to me in this quote, in fact YOU ARE AGREEING WITH ME! You are quoting things that have been said TO me in argument AGAINST me as if I said them, and asking me to answer to them!

Please please sort out how to quote people properly, and please edit this and any other thread where you have attributed quotes to people who didn't say them.

Basically don't mess up doing quotes so badly that you are attacking me for something that someone else said, when in actual fact we are in agreement.

I mean I might as well report myself to Zeni at this point, if people are going to be sticking stuff that I didn't say in quote brackets with my name on them. Thanks a lot. Learn to Forum.

I DIDN'T SAY WHAT YOU HAVE QUOTED ME AS SAYING, AND YOUR QUOTE TAGS ARE ALL OVER THE PLACE!

Epona222

Seriously, sort out your quote tags now, I did NOT say what you have quoted me as saying!

EDIT: OK thank you, that seems to be better now. In a thread where people are throwing cheating accusations around, you need to be a little careful about who is being quoted as saying what - thank you for rectifying that

Merlin13KAGL

@Epona222 Corrected the single internal quote that didn't carry over, kinda like how yours got messed up above.

Thanks a lot. Learn to Forum.

Dial it back and bit and take your own advice. Results of a crappy BBC editor does not translate to a personal affront on you.

I'm not the one doing the attacking here.

Also, perhaps learn the difference between questions and statements. In properly quoted version, all but the last are questions. There's no way to know if you're arguing for or against in that context. It could easily be taken as justification.

So, perhaps, be more clear in your intent and some of your complaint can be avoided.

danno8

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

What you're describing without automation is basically impossible, unless you have 4 arms or some very talented feet, anyway.

I realize you probably won't, but I'd ask anyway. What specific thing are you wondering about, because I'm fairly certain you have something in mind, but have not provided said details..

TL;DR; You probably already knew the answer before you asked the question.

It's not impossible. Surely you can imagine how it is possible to login to two accounts, then first move character #1 then character #2 (thus not at the same time, but one after the other). So you could position character #1 in a dungeon close to a boss and then just play on #2 to defeat the boss while #1 stands idle by, but it would get loot and achievements from #2 defeating the boss. This is the type of situation we are debating whether is prohibited or not. Imo as I see the TOS there is nothing there that prohibits it. It mentions you can't play simultaneously (=at the same time). But in the scenario I just described I am only playing one account at a time; I am not multiboxing, I am not playing multiple characters/accounts simultaneously.

I could be wrong, but I thought in order to get on the loot table for any mob you had to do a certain amount of damage or healing to those doing the damage. Something like 10%?

Simply being near the boss wouldn't cut it.

Epona222

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

@Epona222 Corrected the single internal quote that didn't carry over, kinda like how yours got messed up above.

Thanks a lot. Learn to Forum.

Dial it back and bit and take your own advice. Results of a crappy BBC editor does not translate to a personal affront on you.

I'm not the one doing the attacking here.

Also, perhaps learn the difference between questions and statements. In properly quoted version, all but the last are questions. There's no way to know if you're arguing for or against in that context. It could easily be taken as justification.

So, perhaps, be more clear in your intent and some of your complaint can be avoided.

Don't have a go at me, it wasn't me that messed up the quotes, I know how to check that things are correct before hitting the submit button.

Merlin13KAGL

Epona222 wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

@Epona222 Corrected the single internal quote that didn't carry over, kinda like how yours got messed up above.

Thanks a lot. Learn to Forum.

Dial it back and bit and take your own advice. Results of a crappy BBC editor does not translate to a personal affront on you.

I'm not the one doing the attacking here.

Also, perhaps learn the difference between questions and statements. In properly quoted version, all but the last are questions. There's no way to know if you're arguing for or against in that context. It could easily be taken as justification.

So, perhaps, be more clear in your intent and some of your complaint can be avoided.

Don't have a go at me, it wasn't me that messed up the quotes, I know how to check that things are correct before hitting the submit button.

Actually, you did. Feel free to check it again.

Oh, and that was after at least one edit.

Get over yourself.

Epona222

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

@Epona222 Corrected the single internal quote that didn't carry over, kinda like how yours got messed up above.

Thanks a lot. Learn to Forum.

Dial it back and bit and take your own advice. Results of a crappy BBC editor does not translate to a personal affront on you.

I'm not the one doing the attacking here.

Also, perhaps learn the difference between questions and statements. In properly quoted version, all but the last are questions. There's no way to know if you're arguing for or against in that context. It could easily be taken as justification.

So, perhaps, be more clear in your intent and some of your complaint can be avoided.

Don't have a go at me, it wasn't me that messed up the quotes, I know how to check that things are correct before hitting the submit button.

Actually, you did. Feel free to check it again.

Oh, and that was after at least one edit.

Get over yourself.

Ugh no, this is what you don't seem to understand. You had ALREADY messed up the quoting. I simply hit quote on what you did, that was YOUR mess.

You might be used to your mum cleaning up after you, but I am not going to quote your hot mess and correct it all for you.

Merlin13KAGL

I get that for some reason you want to lose your f'ing mind over this, making it sound like it's a regular occurrence and was totally with the intent to somehow undermine your message.

"Still" implies previous occurrence.Considering it was my second post in this thread, doesn't really apply, does it?
I didn't feel the need to go all forum grammar police or flip out in the process.

It was never an attack on you.

It was fixed.

No need for 'mum,' because it's a pretty rare occurrence when a mistake is made. Learn to converse like a grown up and we can talk.

Get. Over. Your. Self.

Epona222

Why are you putting stuff in spoiler tags? Will I ruin the end of a film by looking at them?

Also all I ever asked you to do in the first place was sort out your quotes so you didn't have stuff I said attributed to other people and stuff other people said attributed to me - in the land of the free to sue for libel, that isn't the worst request in the world, is it?

It seems to be sorted now, so yes, we're good

Kikke

lol, best read I've had in a while xD

Feric51

danno8 wrote: »

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

What you're describing without automation is basically impossible, unless you have 4 arms or some very talented feet, anyway.

I realize you probably won't, but I'd ask anyway. What specific thing are you wondering about, because I'm fairly certain you have something in mind, but have not provided said details..

TL;DR; You probably already knew the answer before you asked the question.

It's not impossible. Surely you can imagine how it is possible to login to two accounts, then first move character #1 then character #2 (thus not at the same time, but one after the other). So you could position character #1 in a dungeon close to a boss and then just play on #2 to defeat the boss while #1 stands idle by, but it would get loot and achievements from #2 defeating the boss. This is the type of situation we are debating whether is prohibited or not. Imo as I see the TOS there is nothing there that prohibits it. It mentions you can't play simultaneously (=at the same time). But in the scenario I just described I am only playing one account at a time; I am not multiboxing, I am not playing multiple characters/accounts simultaneously.

I could be wrong, but I thought in order to get on the loot table for any mob you had to do a certain amount of damage or healing to those doing the damage. Something like 10%?

Simply being near the boss wouldn't cut it.

@danno8 If you're in a formed group then everyone will get loot regardless of who does the damage. ESO looks at the group as a single entity as far as dealing damage, distributing loot, etc. That's why you can get AP/XP when a group member kills something/someone that you may not have even seen. I do believe there is a certain cap, grouped or non-grouped when gathering loot from a single target does get determined by damage dealt, but usually it's 12+.

Exstazik

So 2 examles:
1)You logging on account A.Get hireling.Close A.Logging to acc B.Get hireling from B.
It's not against ToS.
2)You are logging to account A,then on B.You have 2 open clients and get hirelings from A first,then from B.It's an issue because when you switch to B,Account A will receive benefit as a result by mail while afk.


Next example:
1)You run 4 accounts.Kill mob on one of them and loot it one by one on accounts:2,3,4.It's against rules because you get more items and as ZOS post to me it's can be explotation of game resources.
2)You run 1 account with 3 friends.You kill mob ,your friends loot them and give you all loot.As a result you will get x4 loot and only you make dmg while friends just stand near.It's also should be against rules as in number 1 example.

Hokiewa

Exstazik wrote: »

So 2 examles:
1)You logging on account A.Get hireling.Close A.Logging to acc B.Get hireling from B.
It's not against ToS.
2)You are logging to account A,then on B.You have 2 open clients and get hirelings from A first,then from B.It's an issue because when you switch to B,Account A will receive benefit as a result by mail while afk.


Next example:
1)You run 4 accounts.Kill mob on one of them and loot it one by one on accounts:2,3,4.It's against rules because you get more items and as ZOS post to me it's can be explotation of game resources.
2)You run 1 account with 3 friends.You kill mob ,your friends loot them and give you all loot.As a result you will get x4 loot and only you make dmg while friends just stand near.It's also should be against rules as in number 1 example.

Just stop. If you can't understand the difference btw 1 and 2, no answer from anybody is going to satisfy you. Regardless, at this point you have to be trolling.

Merlin13KAGL

Exstazik wrote: »

So 2 examles:
1)You logging on account A.Get hireling.Close A.Logging to acc B.Get hireling from B.
It's not against ToS.
2)You are logging to account A,then on B.You have 2 open clients and get hirelings from A first,then from B.It's an issue because when you switch to B,Account A will receive benefit as a result by mail while afk.


Next example:
1)You run 4 accounts.Kill mob on one of them and loot it one by one on accounts:2,3,4.It's against rules because you get more items and as ZOS post to me it's can be explotation of game resources.
2)You run 1 account with 3 friends.You kill mob ,your friends loot them and give you all loot.As a result you will get x4 loot and only you make dmg while friends just stand near.It's also should be against rules as in number 1 example.

You're grasping here.

Hirelings don't require action beyond login, so it's not a reasonable comparison. You don't have to actually go to the virtual mail box. You don't even interact with an NPC. There's two keypresses involved, at most to collect a mail attachment, something you could probably do from multiple accounts at once.

Using your same logic, if you have two accounts, one of which has hirelings, the other of which does not, account #2 is not going to magically receive hireling drops by simply being grouped with account #1.

In your other examples, #1 has one person playing at any given time. #2 has four.

You're trying to justify getting the benefit of example two, with the unintended mechanic of example one.

They're not the same things, and you know it.