Battle reviving needs nerfing.

pieratsos

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Max horse speed and rez cooldown in battle spirit and remove camps again. There you go, people natuarally start spreading creating small scale battles in between keeps and reducing stress on the server.

Actually this would have exactly the opposite effect. Players would stack even greater numbers to reduce the risk of death in small fights and having to ride back causing larger fights and more lag. Exactly as we saw when camps were removed.

I agree that a change should be made but removing camps is one of the worst ideas zos ever had. They spread fights more than they caused stacking. Imo they should have no "Radius" again but keep the cooldown. Allowing players to see a camp up somewhere completely different from the laggy zerg fight they are at and swap over there to check it out without a boring ride.

Before camps came back there were plenty of fights in between keeps. Right now the entire map in between keeps is dead. No one goes in between keeps expecting to find a fight. I also said put max horse speed in battle spirit to avoid horse simulator so people can get back into the fight faster.

Dunno if removing the radius will help but right now camps are better off removed completely than stay as they are.

leepalmer95

pieratsos wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Max horse speed and rez cooldown in battle spirit and remove camps again. There you go, people natuarally start spreading creating small scale battles in between keeps and reducing stress on the server.

Actually this would have exactly the opposite effect. Players would stack even greater numbers to reduce the risk of death in small fights and having to ride back causing larger fights and more lag. Exactly as we saw when camps were removed.

I agree that a change should be made but removing camps is one of the worst ideas zos ever had. They spread fights more than they caused stacking. Imo they should have no "Radius" again but keep the cooldown. Allowing players to see a camp up somewhere completely different from the laggy zerg fight they are at and swap over there to check it out without a boring ride.

Before camps came back there were plenty of fights in between keeps. Right now the entire map in between keeps is dead. No one goes in between keeps expecting to find a fight. I also said put max horse speed in battle spirit to avoid horse simulator so people can get back into the fight faster.

Dunno if removing the radius will help but right now camps are better off removed completely than stay as they are.

Doesn't help the most ap comes from taking resources and keeps. Thats what giving a set amount of AP to every person does to a game.

Hence why you have 40/ 50 man hordes running between keeps now. Thats the highest ap/hr you can get.

Before the most ap you could get was small scaling or solo as players gave a max of 950ap for a max cp player and keep a/d ticks didn't give too much even after an hour or two fights. I remember getting 10k d ticks and thinking it was good after a good hour defence.

Now i run to a resources in this event and got nearly 8k ap. Or zerg a keep with 50 man and take it within 3 mins and get 14k.

Qbiken

leepalmer95 wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Max horse speed and rez cooldown in battle spirit and remove camps again. There you go, people natuarally start spreading creating small scale battles in between keeps and reducing stress on the server.

Actually this would have exactly the opposite effect. Players would stack even greater numbers to reduce the risk of death in small fights and having to ride back causing larger fights and more lag. Exactly as we saw when camps were removed.

I agree that a change should be made but removing camps is one of the worst ideas zos ever had. They spread fights more than they caused stacking. Imo they should have no "Radius" again but keep the cooldown. Allowing players to see a camp up somewhere completely different from the laggy zerg fight they are at and swap over there to check it out without a boring ride.

Before camps came back there were plenty of fights in between keeps. Right now the entire map in between keeps is dead. No one goes in between keeps expecting to find a fight. I also said put max horse speed in battle spirit to avoid horse simulator so people can get back into the fight faster.

Dunno if removing the radius will help but right now camps are better off removed completely than stay as they are.

Doesn't help the most ap comes from taking resources and keeps. Thats what giving a set amount of AP to every person does to a game.

Hence why you have 40/ 50 man hordes running between keeps now. Thats the highest ap/hr you can get.

Before the most ap you could get was small scaling or solo as players gave a max of 950ap for a max cp player and keep a/d ticks didn't give too much even after an hour or two fights. I remember getting 10k d ticks and thinking it was good after a good hour defence.

Now i run to a resources in this event and got nearly 8k ap. Or zerg a keep with 50 man and take it within 3 mins and get 14k.

*flipping flags in IC

Berenhir

When we are at it, could we make people loose all their gear and inventory in PvP when they die? And no rezzing in Cyrodiil but when people die, they need to respawn in their alliance capital, re-equip and go to Cyro again? Like in EVE, where death really has an effect?

As long as PvP is just a funny casual meaningless minigame, there is no need to make meaningless deaths and victories less... meaningless.

BuddyAces

leepalmer95 wrote: »

BuddyAces wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

BuddyAces wrote: »

Of all the stupid crap I've read on these forums. How do some of you folks manage to, I dunno, survive life in general?

Thank God zos doesn't balance this game around the forums.

Why? Because then it would require more than one finger to play the game?

Thank god ZOS keeps catering to massive groups of players.

Yes, let's add a freakin timer so everyone gets to stare at a death recap instead of, oh I don't know, playing the game.

Dunno what awesome setup you have going on but I need more than one finger to play the game.

Whats this? Having a consequence to dying in pvp isn't too far!. You's are happy enough to wait for camp timers when yous run into 10 oils and can't be revived.

Zergers man, so used to just playing without a brain because if they don't build, manage their resources, line of sight, get out of siege etc... properly it doesn't matter the 50 man horde behind them will revive them. People with mindsets like you are the reason this games pvp has gone so downhill.

I don't zerg so um, awkward.

Marginis

jaime1982 wrote: »

Marginis wrote: »

Aaaaaaaaand this is why I don't PVP. Too many selfish players worrying about how things are hard for them instead of what's best for the game and too many casual players the ZOS caters to. Of course, they could cater solely to hardcore players but I can only imagine how toxic THAT would be.

Doesn't pvp, yet posts opinion in pvp forum.

why I don't like to PVP, even though I have fairly often*

Sorry 'bout that. Thought it was clearly implied.

leepalmer95

BuddyAces wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

BuddyAces wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

BuddyAces wrote: »

Of all the stupid crap I've read on these forums. How do some of you folks manage to, I dunno, survive life in general?

Thank God zos doesn't balance this game around the forums.

Why? Because then it would require more than one finger to play the game?

Thank god ZOS keeps catering to massive groups of players.

Yes, let's add a freakin timer so everyone gets to stare at a death recap instead of, oh I don't know, playing the game.

Dunno what awesome setup you have going on but I need more than one finger to play the game.

Whats this? Having a consequence to dying in pvp isn't too far!. You's are happy enough to wait for camp timers when yous run into 10 oils and can't be revived.

Zergers man, so used to just playing without a brain because if they don't build, manage their resources, line of sight, get out of siege etc... properly it doesn't matter the 50 man horde behind them will revive them. People with mindsets like you are the reason this games pvp has gone so downhill.

I don't zerg so um, awkward.

So tell me? How would this change effect you? If your solo a timer literally wouldn't effect you and you wouldn't be staring at a screen.

If you was small scale this would benefit you.

So either you are a zerger or you have some weird fetish of supporting zerging in general.

leepalmer95

Marginis wrote: »

jaime1982 wrote: »

Marginis wrote: »

Aaaaaaaaand this is why I don't PVP. Too many selfish players worrying about how things are hard for them instead of what's best for the game and too many casual players the ZOS caters to. Of course, they could cater solely to hardcore players but I can only imagine how toxic THAT would be.

Doesn't pvp, yet posts opinion in pvp forum.

why I don't like to PVP, even though I have fairly often*

Sorry 'bout that. Thought it was clearly implied.

Nah stating 'This is why i don't pvp' is stating that you don't pvp.

idk

No one is rezed instantly. If you are seeing this video it and send it to Zos

Small groups with solid tactics (and good leaders) can take out larger zergs. It has been that way for ages.

pieratsos

leepalmer95 wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Max horse speed and rez cooldown in battle spirit and remove camps again. There you go, people natuarally start spreading creating small scale battles in between keeps and reducing stress on the server.

Actually this would have exactly the opposite effect. Players would stack even greater numbers to reduce the risk of death in small fights and having to ride back causing larger fights and more lag. Exactly as we saw when camps were removed.

I agree that a change should be made but removing camps is one of the worst ideas zos ever had. They spread fights more than they caused stacking. Imo they should have no "Radius" again but keep the cooldown. Allowing players to see a camp up somewhere completely different from the laggy zerg fight they are at and swap over there to check it out without a boring ride.

Before camps came back there were plenty of fights in between keeps. Right now the entire map in between keeps is dead. No one goes in between keeps expecting to find a fight. I also said put max horse speed in battle spirit to avoid horse simulator so people can get back into the fight faster.

Dunno if removing the radius will help but right now camps are better off removed completely than stay as they are.

Doesn't help the most ap comes from taking resources and keeps. Thats what giving a set amount of AP to every person does to a game.

Hence why you have 40/ 50 man hordes running between keeps now. Thats the highest ap/hr you can get.

Before the most ap you could get was small scaling or solo as players gave a max of 950ap for a max cp player and keep a/d ticks didn't give too much even after an hour or two fights. I remember getting 10k d ticks and thinking it was good after a good hour defence.

Now i run to a resources in this event and got nearly 8k ap. Or zerg a keep with 50 man and take it within 3 mins and get 14k.

Ok, then adjust AP gains too. Didnt say that its good as it is. Both offensive and defensive ticks are stupid. However you could adjust AP and it wouldnt really change anything. People would still go to keeps and resources to fight cause simply those are the only places you can get into a fight and its also a lot easier to kill people by just running around a tower.

bongtokin420insd16

So, anyone realize if you made this change it would be impossible to defeat a zerg while defending too right?

The strength of a 10 man defense vs a 30 man zerg is the ability to use siege and keep pressure on. If you had to wait to respawn, zergs would focus fire the walls and take out defenders and overwhelm them while their friends are on a rez timer. Best part of defending is your buddy can pick u up before your catapult resets after you fire even if you die lol.

Also, i see plenty of fighting that doesn't occur at keeps, especially on the bridges. Yes these are "Keep adjacent" but not in range for a defensive tick.

leepalmer95

bongtokin420insd16 wrote: »

So, anyone realize if you made this change it would be impossible to defeat a zerg while defending too right?

The strength of a 10 man defense vs a 30 man zerg is the ability to use siege and keep pressure on. If you had to wait to respawn, zergs would focus fire the walls and take out defenders and overwhelm them while their friends are on a rez timer. Best part of defending is your buddy can pick u up before your catapult resets after you fire even if you die lol.

Also, i see plenty of fighting that doesn't occur at keeps, especially on the bridges. Yes these are "Keep adjacent" but not in range for a defensive tick.

Well maybe defending should do a bit more to be careful and not snipe their little heat at with 20k hp at the other zerg and get caught out and die.

Because currently defenders can do whatever they want while the other is sieging, doesn't matter how many times they die they'll just be picked up.

This game desperately needs mechanics that encourage people to get better in pvp. I've been away for a couple months and came back for the event. A lot of the good pvpers i knew quit and im running into max cp lvl 40+ pvp rank players who play like 100cp players. It's confusing how they could of played for so long yet still be that bad. I have sorc's hard casting frags at me with no shields. Snipers with 18k hp in the backs of groups.

Of course me or my small group punish these players and burst them but they they're just back up within 2s while the resources we wasted to interrupt the revive and actually kill them aren't.

bongtokin420insd16

I agree that is frustrating. I was simply pointing out to the OP that it would hurt both sides (There was a tad bit of sarcasm there too but apparently it was missed lol)

Raammzzaa

A nerf res thread?!?! Now I’ve seen it all!

Chilly-McFreeze

Raammzzaa wrote: »

A nerf res thread?!?! Now I’ve seen it all!

No, you haven't. Some people will always find something to complain about.

See the lates Rune Cage changes on PTS:
SummerSet PTS: Rune Cage get's garantueed damage - people complained about 10k added damage
Current PTS: Rune Cage damage change reverted - people complain "damage was never the problem"

There will always be something that "have to" be nerfed. Even if it's rezzing because small scalers never rez

Thogard

Raammzzaa wrote: »

A nerf res thread?!?! Now I’ve seen it all!

You’ve seen it all.. just not any other MMO with combat rezzing apparently.

It’s a really important game mechanic for the genre and it’s really tough to balance.

ESO has the easiest rez and lowest consequence death of any MMO I’ve ever played.

Anyone member when you had to be a dedicated healer to resurrect someone?

I member

leepalmer95

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Raammzzaa wrote: »

A nerf res thread?!?! Now I’ve seen it all!

No, you haven't. Some people will always find something to complain about.

See the lates Rune Cage changes on PTS:
SummerSet PTS: Rune Cage get's garantueed damage - people complained about 10k added damage
Current PTS: Rune Cage damage change reverted - people complain "damage was never the problem"

There will always be something that "have to" be nerfed. Even if it's rezzing because small scalers never rez

It's not even just small scaling.

It's when you catch people out in sieges or something, you kill a few but they're all immediately revived. There isn't even a point.

bongtokin420insd16

I member.....

Tiphis

The issue is that any change would most likely end up hurting casuals.

Who dies the most in pvp? The casuals.

Who if they do die and there was a limited amount of rezzes per person wouldn’t get picked up because someone is saving their rez for a guild or group member. The casuals.

Who if they revive with a “sickness” would end up dying again because they don’t know what to do or have the skills to survive with the debuff? The casuals.

Who would die the most and so need the most rezzes which would be limited to a certain number? The casuals.

Who, if they made the rez channel significantly longer, would not get rezzed because others wouldn’t want to leave themselves exposed for so long just to rez somebody else whos just a casual? The casuals.

Who, if they made rezzing more difficult for the rezzer, would not get rezzed because others don’t want to put themselves at risk just to rez a “casual” who in their minds would just end up dying again? The casuals.

Unfortunately alot of the more experienced players have less respect for the casuals and as such would simply ignore the rez instead of helping because it would be more of a risk to themselves or it would be useless because they’d simply die again anyway if they have a debuff on rez. Again this is not my take but it is not uncommon.

Runs

Mount speed is also too fast, they should cut max speed in half and double the amount of time it takes to train characters. Then zergs wouldn't reach us so fast when we are trying to PvDoor an empty keep.

geonsocal

i think royaji nailed it when they stated that eso was geared towards a casual playing crowd...

i think it's even a broader concern for that for zos...creating an open world pvp environment with different objectives, scoring rules and player focused possibilities...

what's enjoyable for some players , may not be enjoyable for others...allowing for open world pvp play leads to some mechanics going against a particular player's preferred playstyle...

i like camps, and easy rez rules - i don't mind fighting the same fight over and over again...for others, i'm sure it's like torture...

i know though, some players have a much different view of what the alliance war should be...for myself, it's like a large, un-structured, non-timed battleground...some folks though i'm sure want to "feel" like they're actually accomplishing "something" - others just want to play in a cool looking sandbox...

p00tx

Irylia wrote: »

At the very least kag reduce rez/support and Templar rez passive could be nerfed or removed

But a sickness would be ideal. Either you rez and do reduced damage for x time or can’t be revived for a short duration after dying.
Not to mention the person who bashed a rez shouldn’t lose Stam instead the person who was trying to revive should lose that amount instead.

1. Please stop with the "nerf Templars" suggestions. This is about all we have left these days.
2. A long time ago, when I first hit my stride in PvP and began to see how I could best benefit the team I played with (and still play with), I decided to build a healer who could get into the middle of a battle and combat rez without being interrupted before the rez was completed. I made a set of heavy Kags, leveled the proper skill lines, and invested a stupid high amount of resources into making stacks of Unstoppable Mag/Health pots. As a result, this is what my healer is pigeon-holed to do. I am not super effective at killing, and my main burst heal has been nerfed into Oblivion, and now the burst from my monster helm has been spread out/nerfed. I run a group utility PvP Healplar, and I do it really freaking well, in spite of the constant nerfs to my character class. Don't be mad that someone found a counter to your interrupt play-style. I didn't blunder my way into this build or copy it from someone. I developed it contrary to the advice of so many others who thought I should adhere to a meta that existed back then, and I did it as a counter to the aggressive play styles of the damage dealers in Cyrodil. The bar was really freaking high, so I found a way over it. Now it's unfortunately becoming a more common build/gear combo, but it's still a legitimate set up and it's not unfairly imbalanced.
3. As someone earlier mentioned, PvE. What we change in PvP very often resonates very badly in PvE, and this change would be devastating for them. You guys HAVE to start thinking more broadly when suggesting changes and STOP thinking only in terms of "how can I make things easier/better/simpler for myself?".

This is, overall, a terrible suggestion from far too many people.



@leepalmer95 you can't log into a game during a double AP event (after a long absence) and freak out because people aren't playing the way you think they should be playing. There are a lot of people in here who lack your experience and have never stepped foot into Cyrodil before this event started, so of course they're going to be playing awkwardly. Cut them a little slack and just enjoy adding them to your kill count. The event will be over soon and things will go back to more or less the game you remember. Also, if you're not enjoying the 8k tics on resources and 14k tics on quick-flip keeps, don't read the Pellinal's Scroll.

bongtokin420insd16

Here's a thought, lets go the other way, and create a Hardcore Campaign. Separate from every other campaign (IE its always available as a campaign and does not count toward your Home or guest), with requirements to enter? CP, Rank, something that ensures you get the hardcore players only. Then you can strip it down and make it as hard as you want. Increase the rewards too sure, but make earning them actually tough. IE you have to actually lay siege, do a percentage of damage, be alive, etc. That way you cant just die at keeps and earn rewards and points.

Obviously it would need more specifics, but you get the idea.

BuddyAces

leepalmer95 wrote: »

BuddyAces wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

BuddyAces wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

BuddyAces wrote: »

Of all the stupid crap I've read on these forums. How do some of you folks manage to, I dunno, survive life in general?

Thank God zos doesn't balance this game around the forums.

Why? Because then it would require more than one finger to play the game?

Thank god ZOS keeps catering to massive groups of players.

Yes, let's add a freakin timer so everyone gets to stare at a death recap instead of, oh I don't know, playing the game.

Dunno what awesome setup you have going on but I need more than one finger to play the game.

Whats this? Having a consequence to dying in pvp isn't too far!. You's are happy enough to wait for camp timers when yous run into 10 oils and can't be revived.

Zergers man, so used to just playing without a brain because if they don't build, manage their resources, line of sight, get out of siege etc... properly it doesn't matter the 50 man horde behind them will revive them. People with mindsets like you are the reason this games pvp has gone so downhill.

I don't zerg so um, awkward.

So tell me? How would this change effect you? If your solo a timer literally wouldn't effect you and you wouldn't be staring at a screen.

If you was small scale this would benefit you.

So either you are a zerger or you have some weird fetish of supporting zerging in general.

Could care less who does and doesn't zerg. Does it suck? Yeah, I guess? Does it bother me? Nope, not at all. But, dumbest nerf thread ever posted in the history of the forums.

Some people....

Chilly-McFreeze

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Raammzzaa wrote: »

A nerf res thread?!?! Now I’ve seen it all!

No, you haven't. Some people will always find something to complain about.

See the lates Rune Cage changes on PTS:
SummerSet PTS: Rune Cage get's garantueed damage - people complained about 10k added damage
Current PTS: Rune Cage damage change reverted - people complain "damage was never the problem"

There will always be something that "have to" be nerfed. Even if it's rezzing because small scalers never rez

It's not even just small scaling.

It's when you catch people out in sieges or something, you kill a few but they're all immediately revived. There isn't even a point.

But it goes the same way around. You can be a magnificent small scaler, all it needs is one guy in the back spamming Leathal Arrow (thanks Health D-Sync) or using a Coldharbour Ballista. I agree that it's easier for the "bigger" group to rez, but I'd argue that it's just as, if not even more important, for the smaller group to be able to rez when needed or the opportunity arises.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

pieratsos wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Max horse speed and rez cooldown in battle spirit and remove camps again. There you go, people natuarally start spreading creating small scale battles in between keeps and reducing stress on the server.

Actually this would have exactly the opposite effect. Players would stack even greater numbers to reduce the risk of death in small fights and having to ride back causing larger fights and more lag. Exactly as we saw when camps were removed.

I agree that a change should be made but removing camps is one of the worst ideas zos ever had. They spread fights more than they caused stacking. Imo they should have no "Radius" again but keep the cooldown. Allowing players to see a camp up somewhere completely different from the laggy zerg fight they are at and swap over there to check it out without a boring ride.

Before camps came back there were plenty of fights in between keeps. Right now the entire map in between keeps is dead. No one goes in between keeps expecting to find a fight. I also said put max horse speed in battle spirit to avoid horse simulator so people can get back into the fight faster.

Dunno if removing the radius will help but right now camps are better off removed completely than stay as they are.

The stacking at keeps is a combination of the following:
- Current tick mechanics
- current siege mechanics
- radius part of camps
- lack of strong groups who can confidently seperate from the frontline and go it alone successfully. (I'm not talking about the flip back line and leave immediately groups)
- server performance and population

Removing camps would just increase the other problems because people would play much safer just stacking/attacking in keeps with greater numbers even more to attempt to prevent deaths

usmcjdking

Needs a straight up execute mechanic. Maybe 1 second channel time that works akin to essentially "rezzing an enemy", upon when completed outright forces the person to respawn with no chance at any sort of revival to include forward camps.

p00tx

I think a lot of people are forgetting there are already rez penalties. Unless you're lucky enough to be rezzed by a Templar, you're coming back with essentially ZERO resources, on all bars. It's why it drives me bonkers when non-temps race me to get rezzes off for the team, just for that paltry AP.

Mojmir

For pvp only: must rez ar keep and run to corpse naked to get equipment.

geonsocal

Mojmir wrote: »

For pvp only: must rez at keep and run to corpse naked to get equipment.

this seems pretty fair actually...I'd go for this