Which Templar skill do you think needs most needs a buff?

JinMori

geonsocal wrote: »

Templar
Dawn’s Wrath
Radiant Destruction: Increased the maximum bonus execute damage dealt by this ability and its morphs to 480% from 400%.

heck, who needs soul assault

someone on another thread brought up the idea of re-trailing some magplar jewelry to bloodthirsty...

had a chance to take some different characters through battlegrounds this weekend - radiant sure does work well there...

Yes, now it will actually work as an EXECUTE.

Joy_Division

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Why is my templar stamina management tool useless on bosses?

Do a Google search for "Restoring Aura" and set the date before January 2015.

DocFrost72

Restoring Aura

Joy_Division wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Why is my templar stamina management tool useless on bosses?

Do a Google search for "Restoring Aura" and set the date before January 2015.

Restoring Aura
When slotted: Increases stamina and health regeneration by 15. When activated: Increases the health and stamina regeneration of nearby allies by an additional 80% for 6 seconds. Unlocks at Restoring Light rank 20.

Back before soft cap removal, I remember. Granted, from the two second Google safari I did this got bugged to crap, but to be blunt even this, in its current form, would be underwhelming. Trading a global cooldown for, likely in pve, 2400 stam over 6 seconds.

They have also since changed it so that repentance did not give stamina to allies. Needed change so templars were not the only reasonable healer choice. I'm missing something though, *why is my stam sustain entirely useless on boss fights, the literal only spec to have this issue.*

Sdk: Poisoned effect returns stam, ultimates return stam, molten weapons returns stam.
Mdk: burning effect returns mag, ultimates return mag, magicka steal returns mag.

Snb: leeching, killer's blade (with passive).
Mnb: siphoning attacks, ele drain, impale (with passive).

Swdn: bull netch, green balance passive
Mwdn: betty netch, green balance passive, ele drain.

Storc: Dark deal (weakest of the working abilities in pve by a landslide, but at least freaking functions)
Msorc: fury, dark conversion (equally weak as dark deal but again, is a freaking option), ele drain.

Magtemplar: Almost joined the stam party, but were rightfully saved last ts patch with rune changes. I'm glad they got something to help them. Oh, and in case we forgot, ele drain.
Stam templars restore stamina through heavy attacks and potions, that's it.

It is just highly infuriating to the point of me switching to stamina sorc (really, I hate storcs) recently.

ZeroXFF

Sun Shield

Sun shield is literally useless. Turn one of the morphs into an HP% based self heal to make it actually useful for tanks, and add to the other morph scaling with the highest stat (mag/stam) to make it useful for all templars.

dodgehopper_ESO

Solariken wrote: »

For reasons @Minno stated above, Radiant Aura would be the best place to start.

1. The 10% Regens should just be included in Restoring Spirit.

2. Radiant Aura should grant Minor Expedition while slotted.

3. Hasty Prayer should just be a magicka Vigor.

4. Repentance can be used once per corpse PER TEMPLAR.

5. On activation, Radiant Aura causes all enemies within X meters to miss their next attack. Also grants Major Sorcery and Brutality for Y seconds.

Holy smokes if I were a Stamplar I'd probably go Radiant Aura with the changes you described. I've been practicing playing without Repentance and at this point I'm comfortable not using it. Its a crap skill anyway and we all know it. Its just too situational and it helps you when you need help least. I have to say I love the changes you suggest though.

Joy_Division

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Why is my templar stamina management tool useless on bosses?

Do a Google search for "Restoring Aura" and set the date before January 2015.

Restoring Aura
When slotted: Increases stamina and health regeneration by 15. When activated: Increases the health and stamina regeneration of nearby allies by an additional 80% for 6 seconds. Unlocks at Restoring Light rank 20.

Back before soft cap removal, I remember. Granted, from the two second Google safari I did this got bugged to crap, but to be blunt even this, in its current form, would be underwhelming. Trading a global cooldown for, likely in pve, 2400 stam over 6 seconds.

IIRC, each rank increased the duration by a second. It also would let the rest of the group reach nightblade levels of sustain. It's precisely the type of skill we need more of because it brings something to the group besides a DPS parse.

hedna123b14_ESO

Puncturing Sweeps

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Why is my templar stamina management tool useless on bosses?

Do a Google search for "Restoring Aura" and set the date before January 2015.

Restoring Aura
When slotted: Increases stamina and health regeneration by 15. When activated: Increases the health and stamina regeneration of nearby allies by an additional 80% for 6 seconds. Unlocks at Restoring Light rank 20.

Back before soft cap removal, I remember. Granted, from the two second Google safari I did this got bugged to crap, but to be blunt even this, in its current form, would be underwhelming. Trading a global cooldown for, likely in pve, 2400 stam over 6 seconds.

They have also since changed it so that repentance did not give stamina to allies. Needed change so templars were not the only reasonable healer choice. I'm missing something though, *why is my stam sustain entirely useless on boss fights, the literal only spec to have this issue.*

Sdk: Poisoned effect returns stam, ultimates return stam, molten weapons returns stam.
Mdk: burning effect returns mag, ultimates return mag, magicka steal returns mag.

Snb: leeching, killer's blade (with passive).
Mnb: siphoning attacks, ele drain, impale (with passive).

Swdn: bull netch, green balance passive
Mwdn: betty netch, green balance passive, ele drain.

Storc: Dark deal (weakest of the working abilities in pve by a landslide, but at least freaking functions)
Msorc: fury, dark conversion (equally weak as dark deal but again, is a freaking option), ele drain.

Magtemplar: Almost joined the stam party, but were rightfully saved last ts patch with rune changes. I'm glad they got something to help them. Oh, and in case we forgot, ele drain.
Stam templars restore stamina through heavy attacks and potions, that's it.

It is just highly infuriating to the point of me switching to stamina sorc (really, I hate storcs) recently.

80% buff to stam regen would be very nice. You can use it once per rotation on stamplar and you could get away with bi-stat food and zero or 1 heavy, which would actually be a dps increase. On live a stamplar does 1-2 heavies every rotation in stam/regen food and 3 heavies per rotation in bi stat food. Heavies are a huge dps loss for stamplar, so I'd love to get rid of that...

DocFrost72

Restoring Aura

Joy_Division wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Why is my templar stamina management tool useless on bosses?

Do a Google search for "Restoring Aura" and set the date before January 2015.

Restoring Aura
When slotted: Increases stamina and health regeneration by 15. When activated: Increases the health and stamina regeneration of nearby allies by an additional 80% for 6 seconds. Unlocks at Restoring Light rank 20.

Back before soft cap removal, I remember. Granted, from the two second Google safari I did this got bugged to crap, but to be blunt even this, in its current form, would be underwhelming. Trading a global cooldown for, likely in pve, 2400 stam over 6 seconds.

IIRC, each rank increased the duration by a second. It also would let the rest of the group reach nightblade levels of sustain. It's precisely the type of skill we need more of because it brings something to the group besides a DPS parse.

At this point I will literally take anything over repentance.

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Why is my templar stamina management tool useless on bosses?

Do a Google search for "Restoring Aura" and set the date before January 2015.

Restoring Aura
When slotted: Increases stamina and health regeneration by 15. When activated: Increases the health and stamina regeneration of nearby allies by an additional 80% for 6 seconds. Unlocks at Restoring Light rank 20.

Back before soft cap removal, I remember. Granted, from the two second Google safari I did this got bugged to crap, but to be blunt even this, in its current form, would be underwhelming. Trading a global cooldown for, likely in pve, 2400 stam over 6 seconds.

They have also since changed it so that repentance did not give stamina to allies. Needed change so templars were not the only reasonable healer choice. I'm missing something though, *why is my stam sustain entirely useless on boss fights, the literal only spec to have this issue.*

Sdk: Poisoned effect returns stam, ultimates return stam, molten weapons returns stam.
Mdk: burning effect returns mag, ultimates return mag, magicka steal returns mag.

Snb: leeching, killer's blade (with passive).
Mnb: siphoning attacks, ele drain, impale (with passive).

Swdn: bull netch, green balance passive
Mwdn: betty netch, green balance passive, ele drain.

Storc: Dark deal (weakest of the working abilities in pve by a landslide, but at least freaking functions)
Msorc: fury, dark conversion (equally weak as dark deal but again, is a freaking option), ele drain.

Magtemplar: Almost joined the stam party, but were rightfully saved last ts patch with rune changes. I'm glad they got something to help them. Oh, and in case we forgot, ele drain.
Stam templars restore stamina through heavy attacks and potions, that's it.

It is just highly infuriating to the point of me switching to stamina sorc (really, I hate storcs) recently.

80% buff to stam regen would be very nice. You can use it once per rotation on stamplar and you could get away with bi-stat food and zero or 1 heavy, which would actually be a dps increase. On live a stamplar does 1-2 heavies every rotation in stam/regen food and 3 heavies per rotation in bi stat food. Heavies are a huge dps loss for stamplar, so I'd love to get rid of that...

A heavy attack does (insert value) damage and restores 2k stam, this ability is the equivalent of 1.25 heavy attacks for a global cooldown, though it can be weaved (which is important for damage). It'd be something, but hardly groundbreaking.

I'm torn on it affecting the group. On one hand it would be really good for templars in general for group value, but it doesn't seem to be best utilized on stam dps. My fear would be the healer would use this and stamplar would still be unwanted.

TL;DR: It's better, but I'd have to test to see by how much.

hedna123b14_ESO

Puncturing Sweeps

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Why is my templar stamina management tool useless on bosses?

Do a Google search for "Restoring Aura" and set the date before January 2015.

Restoring Aura
When slotted: Increases stamina and health regeneration by 15. When activated: Increases the health and stamina regeneration of nearby allies by an additional 80% for 6 seconds. Unlocks at Restoring Light rank 20.

Back before soft cap removal, I remember. Granted, from the two second Google safari I did this got bugged to crap, but to be blunt even this, in its current form, would be underwhelming. Trading a global cooldown for, likely in pve, 2400 stam over 6 seconds.

IIRC, each rank increased the duration by a second. It also would let the rest of the group reach nightblade levels of sustain. It's precisely the type of skill we need more of because it brings something to the group besides a DPS parse.

At this point I will literally take anything over repentance.

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Why is my templar stamina management tool useless on bosses?

Do a Google search for "Restoring Aura" and set the date before January 2015.

Restoring Aura
When slotted: Increases stamina and health regeneration by 15. When activated: Increases the health and stamina regeneration of nearby allies by an additional 80% for 6 seconds. Unlocks at Restoring Light rank 20.

Back before soft cap removal, I remember. Granted, from the two second Google safari I did this got bugged to crap, but to be blunt even this, in its current form, would be underwhelming. Trading a global cooldown for, likely in pve, 2400 stam over 6 seconds.

They have also since changed it so that repentance did not give stamina to allies. Needed change so templars were not the only reasonable healer choice. I'm missing something though, *why is my stam sustain entirely useless on boss fights, the literal only spec to have this issue.*

Sdk: Poisoned effect returns stam, ultimates return stam, molten weapons returns stam.
Mdk: burning effect returns mag, ultimates return mag, magicka steal returns mag.

Snb: leeching, killer's blade (with passive).
Mnb: siphoning attacks, ele drain, impale (with passive).

Swdn: bull netch, green balance passive
Mwdn: betty netch, green balance passive, ele drain.

Storc: Dark deal (weakest of the working abilities in pve by a landslide, but at least freaking functions)
Msorc: fury, dark conversion (equally weak as dark deal but again, is a freaking option), ele drain.

Magtemplar: Almost joined the stam party, but were rightfully saved last ts patch with rune changes. I'm glad they got something to help them. Oh, and in case we forgot, ele drain.
Stam templars restore stamina through heavy attacks and potions, that's it.

It is just highly infuriating to the point of me switching to stamina sorc (really, I hate storcs) recently.

80% buff to stam regen would be very nice. You can use it once per rotation on stamplar and you could get away with bi-stat food and zero or 1 heavy, which would actually be a dps increase. On live a stamplar does 1-2 heavies every rotation in stam/regen food and 3 heavies per rotation in bi stat food. Heavies are a huge dps loss for stamplar, so I'd love to get rid of that...

A heavy attack does (insert value) damage and restores 2k stam, this ability is the equivalent of 1.25 heavy attacks for a global cooldown, though it can be weaved (which is important for damage). It'd be something, but hardly groundbreaking.

I'm torn on it affecting the group. On one hand it would be really good for templars in general for group value, but it doesn't seem to be best utilized on stam dps. My fear would be the healer would use this and stamplar would still be unwanted.

TL;DR: It's better, but I'd have to test to see by how much.

That's a good point. I think to make it a dps only ability it should boost the regen of the entire group by the 25% of the caster's stam regen. On a healer it wouldn't be much, but on a dps it would be a lot.
As for heavy attacks, here is how this works on live:
1. When you dont cast ballista you have a mandatory 1 heavy attack per rotation.
2. When you are low on stam you do a total of 3 heavy attacks per rotation and 3 light attacks, 1 cast of jabs.
3. When you are good on stam you do 1 heavy attack, 6 light attacks and 2 jabs. I can tell you that 3 heavies is a lot less damage than 6 light attacks and 1 jabs.
If the skill was changed to my suggestion it would allow us to drop heavies completely...

Princess_Ciri

Puncturing Sweeps

Sweeps. But only because radiant destruction wasn't an option.

In PvP I kill more people using my absorb magicka enchant and structured entropy than I do with radiant destruction. A class execute that doesn't execute. I'd probably get more killing blows spamming vampire's bane and that's a DoT

But sweeps. Well, it's a decent skill but often misses, lags terribly in PvP and is clunky to use. Not to mention considering it is rare anyone is ever close enough to get hit by sweeps, the damage is pretty meh.

six2fall

Where's the ALL option

Joy_Division

six2fall wrote: »

Where's the ALL option

Haha. I haven't even voted in my own poll yet because I can't decide. Leaning Sweeps or Sun Shield.

Amdar_Godkiller

Piercing Javelin

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

I've not played much with Magplar but does sweeps not function basically the same as jabs? Jabs hardly ever misses anybody, and the splash damage that comes with it makes templar really OP in BGs. Why do magplars struggle with it so much?

The best explanation I've heard/personally feel for why Jabs feels good on stamplar and clunky on magplar is that stamplars tend to have strong HOTs running (vigor, rally, often bloodcraze bleed) while magplar typically only has ritual heal+sweeps heal (which has been nerfed down to a pretty marginal amount, despite the recent readjustment).

So damage-built stamplars have enough incoming healing to actually channel jabs, while a damage built magplar often has to interrupt their own channel to cast a relatively expensive self-heal.

This has been mitigated a bit by the little buff sweeps got a few patches ago, and magplars can run defensive sets/roll Rapid Regen to let themselves stay locked in a channel, but even then they don't have the mobility of a stam toon to roll in, drop ult, channel a few times, and run away. Generally, if a magplar is jabbing they are committed to that fight, win or lose.

That makes sense, I think.

Sounds like what sweeps needs then is a buff in the direction of Brawler from the 2H skill line: a little baby damage shield for each target hit or for each hit that lands on a single target.

Might be too OP, but then again, it might be just what is needed.

Cage_Lizardman

Sun Shield

Javelin is fun in pvp.

Jabs/sweep tends to miss a lot in pvp, but it needs a bug fix, not buffs.

The charge I at least use as a ranged interrupt on the tiger in Fang Lair.

Sun shield on the other hand is garbage in every possible situation, and it's garbage by design.

Strider__Roshin

Piercing Javelin

Javelin is useless. I'm not going to slot a CC that moves my opponent out of the range of my Jabs. Also Sweeps does not deserve a buff unless you make it single target and dodgeable. AoEs should not compete with ST spammables.

Amdar_Godkiller

Piercing Javelin

Daus wrote: »

Javelin is useless. I'm not going to slot a CC that moves my opponent out of the range of my Jabs. Also Sweeps does not deserve a buff unless you make it single target and dodgeable. AoEs should not compete with ST spammables.

It's BiS at Sejanus.

Strider__Roshin

Piercing Javelin

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Javelin is useless. I'm not going to slot a CC that moves my opponent out of the range of my Jabs. Also Sweeps does not deserve a buff unless you make it single target and dodgeable. AoEs should not compete with ST spammables.

It's BiS at Sejanus.

I'd rather have an ability that I can incorporate into a rotation rather than a trolling device.

Amdar_Godkiller

Piercing Javelin

Daus wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Javelin is useless. I'm not going to slot a CC that moves my opponent out of the range of my Jabs. Also Sweeps does not deserve a buff unless you make it single target and dodgeable. AoEs should not compete with ST spammables.

It's BiS at Sejanus.

I'd rather have an ability that I can incorporate into a rotation rather than a trolling device.

There are plenty of those though in the game, and so few trolling devices. What about making one of the morphs a root?

Mr_Nobody

Puncturing Sweeps

I took Sweeps because this is the most templar spell besides BoL/HotD ~ It needs target fixing, idk, maybe it could lock on a chosen target but also deal cone damage? That way each tick would act as a direct damage hit or something so we dont miss every hit while spamming it becase of minor lag, which doesnt happen on direct/instant cast abilities.

Also... Sun/Blazing shield.

that thing is a joke and I can assure combat devs/data analysts if they got any, no one above level 20 in this game is using it. No one. I am yet to see a person using it on PC-NA Vivec, and thats a main campaign for the event. Not even talking about prior event.

Aedaryl

Puncturing Sweeps

It doesn't need a real buff

It need to actually touch mobile target, aka anything stamina (because speed potion and snare removal and immunity).

Dunno how really it can be done, but when jabs touch the ennemy it's a strong skill. Remove the "when" condition like other spammable.

Amdar_Godkiller

Piercing Javelin

Aedaryl wrote: »

It doesn't need a real buff

It need to actually touch mobile target, aka anything stamina (because speed potion and snare removal and immunity).

Dunno how really it can be done, but when jabs touch the ennemy it's a strong skill. Remove the "when" condition like other spammable.

Speed is stamina's defense though. That would be like turning all damage abilities in the 2handed skill line into oblivion damage so that they could always deal damage to shielded targets.

My suggestion: use swift jewelry.

maxjapank

Aedaryl wrote: »

It doesn't need a real buff

It need to actually touch mobile target, aka anything stamina (because speed potion and snare removal and immunity).

Dunno how really it can be done, but when jabs touch the ennemy it's a strong skill. Remove the "when" condition like other spammable.

If you sprint ahead of the enemy and cast Sweeps, they will often run through the entire four hits. And then you get the benefit of the snare on the final hit. You need to start the cast just ahead of them. So I am often sprinting, casting Sweeps, sprinting, casting Sweeps. Give it a try.

maxjapank

Just wanted to post this here. But the main thing Templars need is access to Major Sorcery. If only they would make a spell pot that included Mag regen, Major Sorcery, and Immovable, we'd be set. We'd never need Entropy, and could use Inner light for more Magicka or any other spell. Even a speed pot with Major Sorcery, Mag Regen, and Speed would be wonderful.

Siliziumdioxid

Cleansing Ritual

I did not vote because of the Extended Ritual morph, which is relatively fine...
Ritual of Retribution however is a whole other story:
cleansing only two debuffs makes this bad in pvp... so the application of this skill must be in pve..
however here it becomes really useless.. sure it does many things but there is no situation where all aspects of this skill are needed... however if you want to use one aspect of this skill like it's damage/healing it performs really really bad...
now it basically has all that useless effects and all that at a very high magicka cost.
you can't trust this skill in vma as a healing ability, it will never appear in a dps rotation, etc.

Further notice ... cleansing Ritual may cleanse snares/roots (depending on how many debuffs are on you) however it gives no immunity.. thus practically still rendering you immobile.

(Another notice ... the value of this skill highly diminishes when faced with multiple attackers)
(Last Notice: is there any knowledge in how debuffs are prioritized for cleansing? does it for example cleanse minor maim from wizard's riposte, Fracture from nmg or snares from ground effects or other futile cleansing attempts?)

Joy_Division

Siliziumdioxid wrote: »

I did not vote because of the Extended Ritual morph, which is relatively fine...
Ritual of Retribution however is a whole other story:
cleansing only two debuffs makes this bad in pvp... so the application of this skill must be in pve..
however here it becomes really useless.. sure it does many things but there is no situation where all aspects of this skill are needed... however if you want to use one aspect of this skill like it's damage/healing it performs really really bad...
now it basically has all that useless effects and all that at a very high magicka cost.
you can't trust this skill in vma as a healing ability, it will never appear in a dps rotation, etc.

Further notice ... cleansing Ritual may cleanse snares/roots (depending on how many debuffs are on you) however it gives no immunity.. thus practically still rendering you immobile.

(Another notice ... the value of this skill highly diminishes when faced with multiple attackers)
(Last Notice: is there any knowledge in how debuffs are prioritized for cleansing? does it for example cleanse minor maim from wizard's riposte, Fracture from nmg or snares from ground effects or other futile cleansing attempts?)

Rit of Retribution is why I included this in the options. It's woefully inadequate.

Valabrog

Piercing Javelin

We all know how templars perform in pvp..give back stun through block to javelin and maybe implement some kind of stamina return to the class..like "after using X dmg ability your sta regen increases by Y %".

Minno

Restoring Aura

Joy_Division wrote: »

Siliziumdioxid wrote: »

I did not vote because of the Extended Ritual morph, which is relatively fine...
Ritual of Retribution however is a whole other story:
cleansing only two debuffs makes this bad in pvp... so the application of this skill must be in pve..
however here it becomes really useless.. sure it does many things but there is no situation where all aspects of this skill are needed... however if you want to use one aspect of this skill like it's damage/healing it performs really really bad...
now it basically has all that useless effects and all that at a very high magicka cost.
you can't trust this skill in vma as a healing ability, it will never appear in a dps rotation, etc.

Further notice ... cleansing Ritual may cleanse snares/roots (depending on how many debuffs are on you) however it gives no immunity.. thus practically still rendering you immobile.

(Another notice ... the value of this skill highly diminishes when faced with multiple attackers)
(Last Notice: is there any knowledge in how debuffs are prioritized for cleansing? does it for example cleanse minor maim from wizard's riposte, Fracture from nmg or snares from ground effects or other futile cleansing attempts?)

Rit of Retribution is why I included this in the options. It's woefully inadequate.

Ritual of Retribution has no place in the temp kit:
- offers DOT but has no synergy with current Templar passives for damage
- procs defensive sets or defile sets but no way to turn off the spell without recasting it.
- doesn't offer 5 purge and doesn't offer negative effect reduction to compensate.
- heal is still not strong enough to compensate for the purge effect being at 2.

It's almost better going with extended in most situations.

RedRook

Sun Shield

Wouldn't it be amazing if templars had a class shield that people who play the class would want to use?

And wouldn't it be amazing if people, seeing a magplar in Cyrodiil, approached with caution instead of just mild annoyance we'll take a while to kill?

Minno

Restoring Aura

RedRook wrote: »

Wouldn't it be amazing if templars had a class shield that people who play the class would want to use?

And wouldn't it be amazing if people, seeing a magplar in Cyrodiil, approached with caution instead of just mild annoyance we'll take a while to kill?

We used to have it, and even then it was stated to have issues related to our miss chance being removed.

Look up any PVP video from Divine Cross; he has comments stated this feedback and you can see how potential he was at Magplar.

Raraaku

Puncturing Sweeps

Puncturing Sweeps for me as well, for reasons already stated. Sun Shield is a close second, outside of Radiant Ward for my tank, it doesn't really have too much utility within PvE/PvP; Blazing Shield in particularly needs a closer look.

I'd also like for Eclipse to not be labeled as CC so that it can be used within dungeons and trials. I was so excited to try out Total Dark on my Templar Tank on his first run through in a group dungeon... You can imagine the disappointment when I realized I had wasted a slot by the time the second boss fight had concluded.