Feedback: ESO+ Subscription

Acrolas

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

I don't think you get the same email as I do. I'm on Xbox One, and all I received was a notification from Microsoft Billing about the cancelled sub. I never saw anything suggesting feedback, as I clearly explained in the first post.

Like... maybe, don't jump to conclusions?

Well, you have the feedback email now. So sit down.

callen4492

DoonerSeraph wrote: »

Unfortunately, game companies only have 2 filters for actions.

1. Is it profitable?
2. Is it legal?

"Are our customers satisfied?" is no longer of any importance to ZOS or most (if not all) game companies. So they probably dont want to hear our feedbacks, they want the reports of the bean counters.

It’s silly to think that ZoS doesn’t care about customer satisfaction. Customer Satisfaction = profit. Lack of customer satisfaction = business failure. There’s no way around that rule. They’re not greedy. They’re not taking your money. They don’t have to improve their content just like you don’t have to pay for a subscription. Don’t be silly.

I think this forum is an example of groupthink. One person comes on the forum and says, “ZoS is terrible, they don’t care about their customers!” because the game lagged and others agree and that becomes the consensus because ZoS doesn’t defend themselves on the forums. Nor should they. Maybe the issues with lag and performance and producing more interesting content are a lot more complicated and time-consuming than we assume. For one, if ZoS toned down the visual effects on the game, it would make it easier for their servers to perform well but people would complain about bad visuals too.

I, for one, play on xbox one so ESO is my only option for an MMO. I appreciate the game ZoS
has developed. Despite it’s many glaring issues, it’s my favorite game I have ever played. I pay for ESO+ because I love the game and I also want to support a development team that has created such a great mmo with a very creative combat system. I hope and believe that they will only make it better in the future and I hope my subscription helps that dream become a reality.

Maybe ZoS needs some competition. Maybe, if another company developed an MMO for consoles, they would have to work harder for customers and we would get a better product. That’s really what I hope.

To the OP, you are well within your rights to cancel your sub and I’m sure if ZoS sees it, they would appreciate you leaving feedback for their game. However, this idea that ZoS doesn’t care about customer satisfaction is preposterous.

Bubbles43

I totally agree with you, I have been a monthly subscriber since 2014, i too just recently cancelled my sub.

This game is unplayable, every thing you mentioned i too have issues with. Long loading screens, environment missing when in a delve, having to reload my ui when in a bg because i cant see all the people in my group, getting stuck in game, constant disconnects from game and not being able to log in. while in pvp i have to drop my graphics to low just to keep from lagging out. That happened last night again in Pvp, i got dc'd in Vivec and had a hard time logging back in every time i was booted off game the error was i didn't have an internet connection, which i have an excellent connection. This was also the same error my other guild mates where receiving upon disconnect too.

When i cancelled my sub i did get an email asking why i am leaving and did get a reply and got a customer service person to respond, I have been working with him for 2 days.

Greetings,

In this instance, we have an option which will default all settings and repair the game files.

First, follow these steps:
Close the ESO Launcher.
Navigate to the patch installation folder,
By default, this folder will be located here: C:\Program Files (x86)\Zenimax Online\Launcher\ProgramData.
Locate and delete the ProgramData folder.
Navigate to C:\Users\[USERNAME]\My Documents\ and grab the entire Elder Scrolls Online folder, and drag it to the desktop for safe keeping.
Open the launcher again and you should be able to repair the game.
Once repaired, please try launching the game to see if the issue remains..

Warm regards,
Brian
The Elder Scrolls Online Team

Oakmontowls_ESO

Sounds like the real problem is that all the people complaining in this thread play on console. On pc I haven't encountered much in the way of performance issues other than the occasional infinite loading screen. Granted I don't pvp and I understand that pvp is extremely laggy during this event due to the extra people playing.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

Acrolas wrote: »

It's arguably better than a radio button survey that can be randomly filled in. I personally don't like using quantitative data gathering methods for qualitative data.

Except there was a little feedback box in the survey you could actually type useful feedback in. (Maybe more than one; it's been a while. )

GrumpyDuckling

Acrolas wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

I don't think you get the same email as I do. I'm on Xbox One, and all I received was a notification from Microsoft Billing about the cancelled sub. I never saw anything suggesting feedback, as I clearly explained in the first post.

Like... maybe, don't jump to conclusions?

Well, you have the feedback email now. So sit down.

Sit down?

Olen_Mikko

Zos is shielding themselves from truth

GrumpyDuckling

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Hmm. I feel like complaints 2 and 3 kind of fit in the category of "yeah, it's an MMO." At least, the MMOs I've played before were all like that was well.

(also , wtf is "immersive gameplay" in an MMO? Seriously, I've a hard enough time grasping what "immersive gameplay" could mean in the first place, but based on years of "OMG, X runed mah immershuns" complaints in game forum after game forum, I can't imagine that any MMO could ever be 'immersive')

In the context of what I am talking about in my original post, my desire for immersive gameplay would be best described as absorption into the game to the point where it feels more like I am playing as the character within a fantasy world, and less like I am maintaining the character and playing against a clock (by maintaining timers and cooldowns).

Unfortunately, end game content highly encourages "rotations" that reward precise clock management, which means that instead of the game feeling like I am fighting against a really cool monster in a fantasy world, it's more of a feeling that I am fighting against a clock, and if I perform well against the clock, the better chance there is that the monster will die.

Instead of "skill" being defined as our ability to aim a precise shot into an enemy weak spot, or dodge the sword swings of a hulking boss, or utilize clever tactics like environmental traps to our advantage, the game really pushes us towards "skill" being defined as clock management.

I don't think clock management feels immersive.

@Kiralyn2000

Shadow-Fighter

@GrumpyDuckling

Thank you, you hit the nail on the head

Zardayne

Yea I noticed that too OP when I cancelled my ESO +. Every MMO I've ever played always asks you for feedback as to why your quitting on the cancellation page. Not this one. Sure you get an email afterward but if I'm quitting right now I was to tell you right now before I log off, possibly for good. There's a damn good chance i'm not going to read your email I get later telling me to email you elsewhere for feedback.

Zardayne

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

Acrolas wrote: »

It's arguably better than a radio button survey that can be randomly filled in. I personally don't like using quantitative data gathering methods for qualitative data.

Except there was a little feedback box in the survey you could actually type useful feedback in. (Maybe more than one; it's been a while. )

Damn I forgot about that long ass survey I was sent a year or two ago. Maybe it was longer. I complained about the same crap then that lead me cancel my subscription a few weeks ago. Guess that survey didn't help much.

DanteYoda

I have not canceled ESO+ "yet", but your feelings are my feelings OP.

Wolfpaw

Huyen wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Dropped my sub.

Performance, Warden, & eso+ perks are not that great (10%boosts?, how about 100%). Crafting bag is not much of a loss to me as I only play one character, and outside of 160 mats that take little space on a mule/bank why have it?

Base game, Expansions, too much crown store releases over ingame rewards, gamble boxes, expensive services (crown store), & a sub....&......PS4 Plus is needed, c'mon. Fun game when working, and will continue to play, but pass on the sub.

Ps plus isnt in zos control sadly...

I wonder how Tera, FFRR, & maybe some others (didn't check) get away with not needing PS Plus to play?

ADarklore

The reason ZOS doesn't care if people unsub or not is because they don't rely on subscriptions for their financial success... they rely on the Crown Store, which makes them a LOT more money. So when people feel they have to announce that they unsubbed, I always chuckle, because it doesn't matter to ZOS one way or another. A sub is a drop in the bucket compared to the money they make in the Crown Store, hence the reason the 'perks' of being ESO+ are not that great. If ESO+ were a major financial point for them, they would be making it increasingly better... but they're really not; instead, their focus is Crown Store sales.

Steel_Brightblade

All your reasons match mine for not resubbing.

Franieck

"Characters Either Feel too Strong, or Not Strong Enough. Neither is Fun.". I absolutely agree with this. ESO feels truly bipolar... while I do enjoy the difficulty of the dungeons (normal and vet), hard modes can be ridiculously challenging (i guess it's alright, it just bugs me that some cosmetics are locked behind it) but what annoys me the most in this game is how pathetic overland is... It's like GTA on god mode. I wish they would make overland more challenging (let people pick overland easy,normal hard with different xp rewards for mobs)

maboleth

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

25% - End Game is too DPS-Obsessed, to the Detriment of Immersive Gameplay
Most of the game’s tougher content highly encourages the player to perfect button presses based on cooldown timers. This game design decision makes me feel more like I am maintaining the character, and less like I am playing as the character. I don’t feel like I’m immersed inside the game -- instead, I’m very much aware that I’m managing it from the outside with cooldown timers and rotations absorbing most of my attention. Other players may like games that are designed like this, but paying to manage a game (especially an Elder Scrolls game) instead of feeling immersed in it is not my cup of tea.

You do realize that your idea completely destroys the idea of fun for a large sum of Dungeon and Trial elitists that obsessively meter their DPS on skeletons, spit and ragequit on all other group members that didn't get to their level?

With your immersion thing, you'd completely ruin the elitism of dungeons and trials - and I like it. Though it's not gonna happen for the very same reason.

LifenLemons

Silent84 wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

When I unsubscribed from ESO+, I didn’t notice any prompt to give feedback as to why I was unsubscribing. (Often, companies will ask for feedback on why the customer has decided to “leave” a subscription). Since I was never prompted, I’m leaving my percentage-based reasons for unsubscribing here (if you even care… probably not, because you didn’t ask when I cancelled the subscription). Anyway, here it is:

50% - Lag, Crashing, and the all-too Common “Unusually Long” Loading Screens.
If I’m paying every month to play, then I want competent performance.

25% - End Game is too DPS-Obsessed, to the Detriment of Immersive Gameplay
Most of the game’s tougher content highly encourages the player to perfect button presses based on cooldown timers. This game design decision makes me feel more like I am maintaining the character, and less like I am playing as the character. I don’t feel like I’m immersed inside the game -- instead, I’m very much aware that I’m managing it from the outside with cooldown timers and rotations absorbing most of my attention. Other players may like games that are designed like this, but paying to manage a game (especially an Elder Scrolls game) instead of feeling immersed in it is not my cup of tea.

24% - Characters Either Feel too Strong, or Not Strong Enough. Neither is Fun.
Overland content is laughably easy, with the exception of fighting some World Bosses on certain solo builds. On the flipside, there are times where watching a tough boss’ health meter slowly drop feels more like the team is fighting with tree branch twigs rather than swords and magic. Where is the in-between, rewarding gameplay where I don’t feel overpowered to the point where I am one-shotting most of the overland enemies, but also don’t feel weak when fighting bullet-sponge bosses? Why is so much of the game designed to have the character either be too strong, or feel weak?

1% - Feeble Move with Crafting Bag
This is a small percentage because I understand the business decision behind it, but I still think it’s a feeble move to have ESO+ offer an exclusive crafting bag that makes the game less annoying to play for subscribers (especially since one of the staples of TES series is item collection). I mean, a large part of my reason for the subscription was to pay for a “perk” that made the game less annoying to play. Am I paying for fun content? Eh... maybe? DLCs usually have easy overland content and bullet-sponge bosses. So... nope, I was for the most part paying to feel less annoyed.

Man i feel the same way, this are my last 30 days of eso-plus, i will never ever give my money to this greedy people, i pay every month to play this game and i get in return bugs, high pings, i got 3 weeks of no textures in open world, dungeons, i still can't believe who can be so damn greedy, and ignore the problems of the game, and milk more money from this community that loves this fu game so much, and lies they will fix the game after each stream, i don't care about dlc man, stop it with dlcs, we have content for the moment, fix the servers!!!!!!!!

Mines getting cancelled too. It's just too much in ZAR for what you get, and frankly not worth it to me. There's a lot to do without the sub so I won't be renewing.

maboleth

That being said, I think that E+ is worth it for so many reasons. One of major things for me are DLC unlocking, craft bag and 1500 crowns. Those features alone justify the price.

I run a well maintained and relatively high end PC (i7-16gb-1060 Nvidia) and I don't experience any of the aforementioned issues with speed or crashing (absolutely none) and lag is much better in Cyrodiil than it used to be or is nonexistent (ping 40-80 for EU). Sure I had issues with textures, but it's fixed now. Similar happened when ESO migrated from 32 to 64bit. It took them like 2 months or so to completely fix pink textures.

Anyway, for anyone having graphic issues, I'd delete usersettings.txt and shadercache files in documents/eso/live folder first.

Merlin13KAGL

Anotherone773 wrote: »

I agree with most of the issues here. I still sub because at the end of the day its 50 cents a day and i simply am not going to spend all my time trying to manage inventory. This game has a lot of issues and it takes far far to long to fix them. But if i quit subbing, i quit playing. There is no way i would play this game without a sub.

Lol...the hell you're not. ESO+ doesn't eliminate the inventory management, it simply prolongs it.

Universe wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

1% - Feeble Move with Crafting Bag
This is a small percentage because I understand the business decision behind it, but I still think it’s a feeble move to have ESO+ offer an exclusive crafting bag that makes the game less annoying to play for subscribers (especially since one of the staples of TES series is item collection). I mean, a large part of my reason for the subscription was to pay for a “perk” that made the game less annoying to play. Am I paying for fun content? Eh... maybe? DLCs usually have easy overland content and bullet-sponge bosses. So... nope, I was for the most part paying to feel less annoyed.

I agree with all points, but this one I couldn't agree more.
I'm a farmer and a crafter(on multiple characters) so the only reason why I keep my sub is the crafting bag.
Sadly, ZOS knows that the crafting bag is the only reason why many players still keep their subs, so it is highly unlikely that the crafting bag will ever reach the crown store, for like 5k/10k crowns.

It's not about "making he game less annoying to play."

It's about the fact they know once you've gone that route, unless you never plan to pick up another item ever again, they know they've got you. Otherwise, it's nay impossible to play the game.

(Why do you think so many things purposely don't stack or have limited stack size? Why do you think Events are designed to clog up your mail and inventory with single use coffers and boxes containing even more inventory clogging items?)

GrumpyDuckling

Franieck wrote: »

"Characters Either Feel too Strong, or Not Strong Enough. Neither is Fun.". I absolutely agree with this. ESO feels truly bipolar... while I do enjoy the difficulty of the dungeons (normal and vet), hard modes can be ridiculously challenging (i guess it's alright, it just bugs me that some cosmetics are locked behind it) but what annoys me the most in this game is how pathetic overland is... It's like GTA on god mode. I wish they would make overland more challenging (let people pick overland easy,normal hard with different xp rewards for mobs)

This reminds me about cross content play. The whole design of switching across content is poorly implemented because different content prioritizes or overvalues different parts of builds.

Cyrodiil - build for survival and burst damage, while wearing impenetrable (and uses different CP nodes)
Overland Questing - who cares facerolling easy
VMA - mostly about memorizing spawn locations and enemy priorities, but encourages DPS
Dungeons - solid DPS or else it's going to take forever
Trials - good DPS or don't bother

There is almost no way to build a character who can seamlessly transition across content without having to constantly switch up a build because this game appears to have no idea about what to prioritize or value, so everything is an ugly mix of chaos.

KraziJoe

The only thing that is really annoying me is that the game feels like it's becoming FASHION Scrolls Online and I expect Tim Gunn and Heidi Klum to appear as the Daedric King and Queen any day now...

Azuramoonstar

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I stopped subbing when Morrowind came out. Subbing + buying expansions is too much.

I just buy the DLC/expansions now along with some crown packs.

that how most mmo are.

Azuramoonstar

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

When I unsubscribed from ESO+, I didn’t notice any prompt to give feedback as to why I was unsubscribing. (Often, companies will ask for feedback on why the customer has decided to “leave” a subscription). Since I was never prompted, I’m leaving my percentage-based reasons for unsubscribing here (if you even care… probably not, because you didn’t ask when I cancelled the subscription). Anyway, here it is:

hi as a vet mmo gamer, and gamer in general I have a question, are you new to MMO? f2p mmo? freemium mmo? buy to play mmo? as your points make next to no sense, and not real feedbAck
1) your point:

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

50% - Lag, Crashing, and the all-too Common “Unusually Long” Loading Screens.
If I’m paying every month to play, then I want competent performance.

every mmo has lag at some points, if you read the Tos and Eua you will find a line that states you are not guarantee 100% connectivity, as stuff can happen to cause the lag. Stuff that is outside the control of Zenimax, your internet, sony, or microsoft.

2) your point

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

25% - End Game is too DPS-Obsessed, to the Detriment of Immersive Gameplay
Most of the game’s tougher content highly encourages the player to perfect button presses based on cooldown timers. This game design decision makes me feel more like I am maintaining the character, and less like I am playing as the character. I don’t feel like I’m immersed inside the game -- instead, I’m very much aware that I’m managing it from the outside with cooldown timers and rotations absorbing most of my attention. Other players may like games that are designed like this, but paying to manage a game (especially an Elder Scrolls game) instead of feeling immersed in it is not my cup of tea.

All rpg since the 70s with table top has at it core been a numbers game. And dps is required to kill stuff, you don't have to follow the meta, but if others find it fun that is there thing. all games require what you are complaining about. Why should eso be different?

3) you point:

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

24% - Characters Either Feel too Strong, or Not Strong Enough. Neither is Fun.
Overland content is laughably easy, with the exception of fighting some World Bosses on certain solo builds. On the flipside, there are times where watching a tough boss’ health meter slowly drop feels more like the team is fighting with tree branch twigs rather than swords and magic. Where is the in-between, rewarding gameplay where I don’t feel overpowered to the point where I am one-shotting most of the overland enemies, but also don’t feel weak when fighting bullet-sponge bosses? Why is so much of the game designed to have the character either be too strong, or feel weak?

no game has perfect balance. all mmo over-world outside ff11 has been "easy" people need to be-able to traverse it hourly and running into dark souls difficulty can make it more of a hindrance then fun. partly why i ask if you are new to mmo and gaming in-general.

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

1% - Feeble Move with Crafting Bag
This is a small percentage because I understand the business decision behind it, but I still think it’s a feeble move to have ESO+ offer an exclusive crafting bag that makes the game less annoying to play for subscribers (especially since one of the staples of TES series is item collection). I mean, a large part of my reason for the subscription was to pay for a “perk” that made the game less annoying to play. Am I paying for fun content? Eh... maybe? DLCs usually have easy overland content and bullet-sponge bosses. So... nope, I was for the most part paying to feel less annoyed.

free to play and buy to play all have perks to their sub. I think ESO has the best bang for your buck when it comes to the sub. It wasn't long ago that all the f2p games were pay to win. Now a days that pay to win mindset is going down. Most everything is cosmetic or a boost to speed stuff up. you don't need to pay a sub to enjoy eso. You can use gold to buy bag space and they added other forms of storage.

with eso+ you get equal amount of crowns, craft bag, dlc for free. you can save up those crowns to buy the dlc. And buy more storage to make the craft bag less needed.

NewBlacksmurf

This is a good list and good feedback...

-If I can add from an xbox perspective

*Subscribing to ESO Plus unlike other platforms only allows a 30-day option with no discount for multiple month.s
-When we do subscribe, we often do not get crown even after 48 hours unless we create a ticket.

When creating a ticket (I've done this over 24 times) there is a requirement to seemingly argue your situation each time with support even tho they see the prior tickets.

Sylvermynx

This is the third game I've paid a sub for, first two being WoW and RIFT, neither of which I play any more. I'm happy with ESO+ for the bag and the crowns.

I don't have a super duper mega gaming machine - it's okay, certainly not the latest and greatest - the only problem I really have is ping (because the only "broadband" I have is satellite). And that mean sometimes I get dropped to login screen and can't get logged back in. Still I'm really enjoying ESO - I'm a TES junkie so this fits for now.

Anyone who has lag probably is still in better shape than I am: mine averages 1.5 seconds on a GOOD day....

Azuramoonstar

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

This is a good list and good feedback...

-If I can add from an xbox perspective

*Subscribing to ESO Plus unlike other platforms only allows a 30-day option with no discount for multiple month.s
-When we do subscribe, we often do not get crown even after 48 hours unless we create a ticket.

When creating a ticket (I've done this over 24 times) there is a requirement to seemingly argue your situation each time with support even tho they see the prior tickets.

how is it good feedback? most of it comes from lack of mmo experience, and entitlement.

you have better feedback, as those are legit problems. On ps4 i never experienced a delay in crowns.
that seems more like a microsoft issue then zenimax.

lagrue

And here I am sitting another 3-4 years of subs already paid for 2 years ago lol.

I think ESO+ is great value itself. Now as for the game grievances OP mentioned, I do understand them, especially the lag and loading screens, but while those things reflect the state of ESO itself, not sure so much they reflect the services of Plus and what it is supposed to offer. Still, your money to do with as you please.

Crafting Bag debacle is a non-issue to me, because anybody can easily buy the game one day, just create - not even play - but create 8 toons and automatically have a minimum of 480 slots to them + bank + cheap upgrades + housing chests. To be quite frank, ESO+'s craft bag isn't even worth nearly as much now as it was 2-3 years ago. There's just so much freely and/or easily accessible storage in-game. Imo the craft bag only = less micromanagement. Interestingly despite most of us, for some reason, finding inventory management as some sort of annoyance... it's always been a staple part of ES games. Regardless the "need" or huge desire for Craft Bag kind of died with the addition of Storage Coffers. There is 100% no reason other than poor game choices and hoarding, to ever struggle with inventory anymore.

As for difficulty, think it's fine how it is. Overland is laughably easy because it's meant for narrative and material farming more than anything, it's not supposed to be the bulk of your combat experience.

Endgame content requiring semi-precise direction for builds is also kind of a huge non-issue. If you want to RP and immerse in chracter building, that's exactly what you laughably easy Overland is for. If you want to make the crappest build ever, feel free to indulge yourself - but why you would expect this mentality to carry over the END game is beyond me.

At the end of the day it's your dollars to spend, but I think targeting ESO+ won't get the message across. Your grievances all seem to stem from the game itself. Solution = stop playing the game entirely, as long as you keep playing the base game ZOS won't care. Cancelling ESO+ doesn't qualify as voting with your wallet because you're voting against one aspect of the game in lieu of other aspects which are unrelated.

LadyLethalla

If you do unsubscribe and don't buy the DLCs separately, do you regain access if you re-sub? Or is that a once-off access-to-all?

lagrue

LadyLethalla wrote: »

If you do unsubscribe and don't buy the DLCs separately, do you regain access if you re-sub? Or is that a once-off access-to-all?

You regain DLC Access on resub.

Any collectibles you earned so for example Bull Horns emote from Falkreath Keep, you keep regardless of Plus status.