Wings is OP. /s | A way to improve wings, whilst giving adequate counterplay. [Updated]

ak_pvp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3zEQg5K60Q

4 light attacks and none of the projectiles needed. If that was cloak I would have survived. Meanwhile: The NB and sorc discords had called for even less projectiles to be reflected.

[UPDATE:] Basically a copy of my other thread since it got deleted:

I was thinking about the original purpose of wings to force melee encounters. DKs unique stand your ground style with low mobility but good control, getting ranged into your turf was needed. IMO it has kind of been eroded a bit too much and the new DK is a discount magblade. The new change I propose would be to instead return the indirect form of range control without making wings as overpowered with an infinite counterless reflect as before.

Wings base: Deflects any direct damage from 15m+ for 4s. This doesn't reflect anymore on base, and like cloak, it has no projectile limit.

Fire scale: Would now reflect. No damage increase.

Plate would grant snare immunity/removal for 4s. No reflect. Why 4s, because 2s is not great for a slow class who can't avoid direct damage (and thus snares/roots) and an expensive ability as seen, its not enough for shuffle either. It would still be below FM.

This means that it becomes either a; Ranged offensive tool, where if you don't want to be hit with your own stuff. You should get closer. OR a solid flee tool that gives basic mobility (no speed, and less than momentum) that limits ranged hits, where you can't stop them. Unlike current use, it won't break almost instantly under pressure either or have illogical exceptions. So bird, ballista, shade bow, valkyn, and force pulse would all be reflect/deflectable after 15m.

It has counters in that you can get within 15m, and deal any ranged damage fine, which means if the DK has you in range (still slightly out of reach,) they lose the ability to nullify damage. Its a trade off for both sides. It is also a lot shorter duration and only one morph reflects so its less pressure to eat. It no longer becomes a hard counter to certain builds in a 1v1, but instead a strong but balanced openworld or battle ground tool.

Outside of that 15m, only full delayed damage and full AoEs would get through, i.e. curse, POTL, cripple, swarm, etc. But not things that are direct with dot AoE components (reach, poison injection and crystal blast examples of those that are direct first and would still be reflectable beyond) Basically the normal non projectiles but adding swarm and cripple since they don't have a direct portion and it doesn't make sense. Pressure would still be applicable, but mindless direct spamming to break wings would not. As for the implementation, range interaction differentiating is possible, bird does it to a lesser degree.

@ZOS_Wrobel @zos_Ginabruno

Savos_Saren

But, hey, with the changes to Sloads- you'll be able to dodge roll constantly to ignore yet another exception to the "unreflectable abilities" rule.

DKsUnite

let all light attacks bypass wings. Would rather take that dmg than reflect it.

Rianai

Cloak doesn't save you from running out of magicka and might have been broken by fury or other random stuff ...

Ankael07

Werent they talking about ''consistent combat mechanics'' the other patch? Where a bunch of AOE skills became undodgeable and single target skills became dodgeable and such? Why the inconsistency the next patch?

ak_pvp

Rianai wrote: »

Cloak doesn't save you from running out of magicka and might have been broken by fury or other random stuff ...

Cloak in that specific occasion would have force missed all of the light attacks, and made me untargettable to send out the the frags and will that eventually killed me there. I would have also suppressed any dots too. I press it at the 4s mark, so cloak would have lasted until 6.5s I got hit by the will/frag at the 7s mark, being sent at the 6s mark, so I would have been safer.

Ankael07

ak_pvp wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

Cloak doesn't save you from running out of magicka and might have been broken by fury or other random stuff ...

Cloak in that specific occasion would have force missed all of the light attacks, and made me untargettable to send out the the frags and will that eventually killed me there. I would have also suppressed any dots too. I press it at the 4s mark, so cloak would have lasted until 6.5s I got hit by the will/frag at the 7s mark, being sent at the 6s mark, so I would have been safer.

This mechanic is the same with Ball of Lightning. If its castet after the enemy casts his projectile you arent protected from it. This doesnt really reward reflexive gameplay

Rianai

You got hit by Fury at that moment, and Fury application can break Cloak.

ak_pvp

Rianai wrote: »

You got hit by Fury at that moment, and Fury application can break Cloak.

It shouldn't. I know cloak can be silly occasionally, but if it does it is a bug. My video however has wings working as intended, and specifically that is intended to be weak OW.

NBrookus

Savos_Saren wrote: »

But, hey, with the changes to Sloads- you'll be able to dodge roll constantly to ignore yet another exception to the "unreflectable abilities" rule.

Unless of course you are melee magicka, in which case you are getting screwed even harder.

Minalan

I don’t see any reason to nerf wings.

It’s down in two woven attacks. Reach/light/dodge/reach/light. You take no reflected damage and wings are down.

Toc de Malsvi

Minalan wrote: »

I don’t see any reason to nerf wings.

It’s down in two woven attacks. Reach/light/dodge/reach/light. You take no reflected damage and wings are down.

You are discounting another dodge needed to make the second pair of projectiles miss.

Toc de Malsvi

ak_pvp wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3zEQg5K60Q

4 light attacks and none of the projectiles needed. If that was cloak I would have survived.

Meanwhile: The NB and sorc discords had called for even less projectiles to be reflected.

But Wings is not meant to be Cloak or a comparable skill. I mean I get the frustration when you don't get your desired skills reflected. But Wings is not meant to be immunity to ranged attacks. If it was then infinite reflects would never have been taken away.

Wings is only a counter to projectiles and provided enough sources then it will be overwhelmed which is the entire purpose of the limit to the number of reflects. For Wings to have projectile immunity without being OP it would need to lose its reflect and instead only deflect.

The reflected damage changes the balance of Wings. If we discount projectile skill cost entirely and even one player is forced to dodge roll then Wings is a fair trade of resources. If two players dodge then its a flat resource advantage.


It isn't designed or meant to be a pure defensive skill, it provides the opportunity to turn the table on a projectile user especially if they are using high damage projectiles. A poorly timed Relentless Bow proc into wings can be forced back into a NB with the use of Petrify before they dodge. Same thing works against Snipe or Frags.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying its a good universal skill. It has limited use because of how powerful it can be. On demand reflects are either OP or weak because of the nature of reflects. Its not merely mitigating damage, its returning that damage or forcing a resource advantage. That means for every reflect it has twice the value of a pure mitigation skill.

This is why I have repeatedly suggested that Wings needs to be buffed aside from the reflect to make it less niche and a more desirable skill.

Toc de Malsvi

Also further giving wings projectile immunity wouldn't help DK. Players would gravitate away from projectiles and DKs would end up dropping wings. The situation you have now would still exist, you wouldn't have it when you need it or it would be a worthless slot 90% of the time.

Toc de Malsvi

Another option, which was suggested years ago when balance was different, is to change Wings to a long duration percentage chance to reflect. Say 30% chance to reflect for 30 seconds, this would add to both stam and mag DK tool kit. Would balance the advantage of reflected damage and add surprise as an attacker wouldn't automatically dodge and wouldn't know when to dodge or not. It would also scale up well with increasing projectiles incoming. It wouldn't likely save you though the same way cloak would in the situation in the video.

Frawr

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Another option, which was suggested years ago when balance was different, is to change Wings to a long duration percentage chance to reflect. Say 30% chance to reflect for 30 seconds, this would add to both stam and mag DK tool kit. Would balance the advantage of reflected damage and add surprise as an attacker wouldn't automatically dodge and wouldn't know when to dodge or not. It would also scale up well with increasing projectiles incoming. It wouldn't likely save you though the same way cloak would in the situation in the video.

I disagree with this change because I believe that something such as wings is effective due to it being predictable. If it became a proc chance then that would make it unreliable and thus pointless.

I also think it utterly insane that skills are allowed to be unavoidable. Wings should reflect everything ranged. Dodge should dodge everything.

Removal of soft caps has led to 3 years(?) of crap 'sticking plaster' changes.

If they want us to be able to kill people who can avoid things, make avoiding more expensive and don't simply make skills unavoidable.

The whole mindset of making a skill unavoidable is just lazy and cheap design. It runs rife through this game's combat design. It is such a shame because the game really is good in general.

NBrookus

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Another option, which was suggested years ago when balance was different, is to change Wings to a long duration percentage chance to reflect. Say 30% chance to reflect for 30 seconds, this would add to both stam and mag DK tool kit. Would balance the advantage of reflected damage and add surprise as an attacker wouldn't automatically dodge and wouldn't know when to dodge or not. It would also scale up well with increasing projectiles incoming. It wouldn't likely save you though the same way cloak would in the situation in the video.

That change would kill Wings as a responsive defensive skill. At that point I have a 30% chance to not eat that 20k overload or 12k Will, which means a 30% chance to be 100% useless.

It would be a lot like when heavy permablock mDKs used Shuffle, except you'd be giving medium stam DKs evasion chance AND reflect chance.

I'd like to see wings scale better. Projectiles per attacker, perhaps. They are too expensive to sustain if heavily outnumbered, so that would only scale so far and wouldn't be OP.

Mureel

I can't even take this seriously because hAck3rz

Toc de Malsvi

NBrookus wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Another option, which was suggested years ago when balance was different, is to change Wings to a long duration percentage chance to reflect. Say 30% chance to reflect for 30 seconds, this would add to both stam and mag DK tool kit. Would balance the advantage of reflected damage and add surprise as an attacker wouldn't automatically dodge and wouldn't know when to dodge or not. It would also scale up well with increasing projectiles incoming. It wouldn't likely save you though the same way cloak would in the situation in the video.

That change would kill Wings as a responsive defensive skill. At that point I have a 30% chance to not eat that 20k overload or 12k Will, which means a 30% chance to be 100% useless.

It would be a lot like when heavy permablock mDKs used Shuffle, except you'd be giving medium stam DKs evasion chance AND reflect chance.

I'd like to see wings scale better. Projectiles per attacker, perhaps. They are too expensive to sustain if heavily outnumbered, so that would only scale so far and wouldn't be OP.

Well of course is wouldn't be responsive, it would also only need to be cast every 30 seconds. It could and would reflect much more projectiles over that period than it does now with the limit, as well as reducing the magicka strain. Enemies wouldn't save Merciless/Relentless procs when you throw wings up and they wouldn't know when it was going back at them. Yes you lose a small window of guaranteed reflects, but you gain far more advantage from a long duration chance based reflect.

It would scale worse for Medium than anyone because dodged projectiles would not get reflected. It would increase their defense slightly but not much as the primary issues for medium is undodgeables of which projectiles are not.

Per attacker at 6 seconds isn't much better than infinite reflects, you still have the situation of 1 DK being able to reflect 100 plus projectiles at once with one skill cast which is absurdly OP. Either you divorce yourself from the idea of immunity to projectiles and pursue options that offer more benefit, or you deal with a continuing cycle back and forth from OP to useless.

Toc de Malsvi

Frawr wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Another option, which was suggested years ago when balance was different, is to change Wings to a long duration percentage chance to reflect. Say 30% chance to reflect for 30 seconds, this would add to both stam and mag DK tool kit. Would balance the advantage of reflected damage and add surprise as an attacker wouldn't automatically dodge and wouldn't know when to dodge or not. It would also scale up well with increasing projectiles incoming. It wouldn't likely save you though the same way cloak would in the situation in the video.

I disagree with this change because I believe that something such as wings is effective due to it being predictable. If it became a proc chance then that would make it unreliable and thus pointless.

I also think it utterly insane that skills are allowed to be unavoidable. Wings should reflect everything ranged. Dodge should dodge everything.

Removal of soft caps has led to 3 years(?) of crap 'sticking plaster' changes.

If they want us to be able to kill people who can avoid things, make avoiding more expensive and don't simply make skills unavoidable.

The whole mindset of making a skill unavoidable is just lazy and cheap design. It runs rife through this game's combat design. It is such a shame because the game really is good in general.

Riiiiiiggggghhhhht because Shuffle is pointless... I don't know why stam ever run it because you just don't know when it will proc and there are so many undodgeable skills.....

Long duration buffs with percentage based mitigation scale very well in PVP.

Kelces

I know it's not optimal, but using a restoration staff instead to annoy a DK is better than getting all attacks backlashing at you...

The other thing would be using ground AoE, there are options. People nowadays seem clammering on certain abilities that are single target. Be creative, it's far from hopeless still...

ak_pvp

Mureel wrote: »

I can't even take this seriously because hAck3rz

Its not 1337speak. Its alternating case, which is more used as a mockery (or a /s) of a quote.

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Also further giving wings projectile immunity wouldn't help DK. Players would gravitate away from projectiles and DKs would end up dropping wings. The situation you have now would still exist, you wouldn't have it when you need it or it would be a worthless slot 90% of the time.

I kind of agree with you. Reflect is a difficult to balance concept, since it is too strong in a 1v1 depending on the build, but useless against certain builds and in outnumbered situations.

The 4s long 3 reflect per person idea that I and a few others have been talking about fixes this, since it has a lower uptime and reflect, but works better against higher numbers, and if it is broken quickly by one enemy, you have to choose whether to refresh it again to have it counter the enemy who broke it, or let it run for full duration against the other enemies who haven't and save resources.

The RNG chance on it wouldn't be good since unlike shuffle, it is only projectiles, not all non dodgable ST skills. DK isn't a mobile class that can avoid damage, DK is a class with all damage inc so needs some sort of way to reliably avoid the harder burst.

Qbiken

All I want after watching this video is endless fury to get changed. The "within 4 seconds" part of the skill is pure bs imo.

Aedaryl

ak_pvp wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3zEQg5K60Q

4 light attacks and none of the projectiles needed. If that was cloak I would have survived.

Meanwhile: The NB and sorc discords had called for even less projectiles to be reflected.

You didn't die because of wings, you died because you was OOM and because you didn't made a dodgeroll.

Priyasekarssk

ak_pvp wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3zEQg5K60Q

4 light attacks and none of the projectiles needed. If that was cloak I would have survived.

Meanwhile: The NB and sorc discords had called for even less projectiles to be reflected.

Light attacks & ulitmates should go through wings. Its horrible to see when ultimates coming back at you. Reflected ultimate wil one shot you will loads of damage.
This is one of the Overpowered skill in DKs tool kit. This is not a skill . This is an spammable ultimate far better than one hand and shield ultimate.
Against all magicka builds DKs are untouchable and pretty much ovepowered. Basically its free kill for DKs.

Cage_Lizardman

I pvp with a bow and I'm not worried about wings. Just spam light attacks and the DK runs out of resources before I do. So yeah that could probably use some adjustments.

Berenhir

ak_pvp wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

I can't even take this seriously because hAck3rz

Its not 1337speak. Its alternating case, which is more used as a mockery (or a /s) of a quote.

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Also further giving wings projectile immunity wouldn't help DK. Players would gravitate away from projectiles and DKs would end up dropping wings. The situation you have now would still exist, you wouldn't have it when you need it or it would be a worthless slot 90% of the time.

I kind of agree with you. Reflect is a difficult to balance concept, since it is too strong in a 1v1 depending on the build, but useless against certain builds and in outnumbered situations.

The 4s long 3 reflect per person idea that I and a few others have been talking about fixes this, since it has a lower uptime and reflect, but works better against higher numbers, and if it is broken quickly by one enemy, you have to choose whether to refresh it again to have it counter the enemy who broke it, or let it run for full duration against the other enemies who haven't and save resources.

The RNG chance on it wouldn't be good since unlike shuffle, it is only projectiles, not all non dodgable ST skills. DK isn't a mobile class that can avoid damage, DK is a class with all damage inc so needs some sort of way to reliably avoid the harder burst.

DKs have an undodgeable and unblockable gap closer that snares and gives major expedition, has the chance to apply a status effect and empowers two light attacks by 40%. You have a reflect that purges all snares, makes you immune against high damage ranged projectiles and gives you immunity to roots and snares on top of that.

Why are you not a mobile class? Because you fight in melee range? Or do you mean you are not able to (try to) escape a fight at will like a sorc/NB while also being in full control of every melee fight with unavoidable stuns, melee damage reflect, big heals from your main spammable and your main dot, access to healing ward, high resistances, on demand stamina return, a damage type that deals +20% against vampires, low cost offensive spells, access to major mending and an ult that makes you immortal for several seconds?

IZZEFlameLash

Rianai wrote: »

Cloak doesn't save you from running out of magicka and might have been broken by fury or other random stuff ...

Running out of magicka isn't the central point of this post. Fury doesn't break Cloak. Countless times have NBs escaped Fury with Cloak. Never seen it broken. And I also escaped Fury execute through Cloak before.

Berenhir wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

I can't even take this seriously because hAck3rz

Its not 1337speak. Its alternating case, which is more used as a mockery (or a /s) of a quote.

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Also further giving wings projectile immunity wouldn't help DK. Players would gravitate away from projectiles and DKs would end up dropping wings. The situation you have now would still exist, you wouldn't have it when you need it or it would be a worthless slot 90% of the time.

I kind of agree with you. Reflect is a difficult to balance concept, since it is too strong in a 1v1 depending on the build, but useless against certain builds and in outnumbered situations.

The 4s long 3 reflect per person idea that I and a few others have been talking about fixes this, since it has a lower uptime and reflect, but works better against higher numbers, and if it is broken quickly by one enemy, you have to choose whether to refresh it again to have it counter the enemy who broke it, or let it run for full duration against the other enemies who haven't and save resources.

The RNG chance on it wouldn't be good since unlike shuffle, it is only projectiles, not all non dodgable ST skills. DK isn't a mobile class that can avoid damage, DK is a class with all damage inc so needs some sort of way to reliably avoid the harder burst.

DKs have an undodgeable and unblockable gap closer that snares and gives major expedition, has the chance to apply a status effect and empowers two light attacks by 40%. You have a reflect that purges all snares, makes you immune against high damage ranged projectiles and gives you immunity to roots and snares on top of that.

Why are you not a mobile class? Because you fight in melee range? Or do you mean you are not able to (try to) escape a fight at will like a sorc/NB while also being in full control of every melee fight with unavoidable stuns, melee damage reflect, big heals from your main spammable and your main dot, access to healing ward, high resistances, on demand stamina return, a damage type that deals +20% against vampires, low cost offensive spells, access to major mending and an ult that makes you immortal for several seconds?

Yeah, wings that reflect 4 projectiles from EVERYONE is so OP all for 3k and up cost. Sooooo effective compared to a skill that forces miss on every single projectiles or even melee range skills. Healing Ward isn't reliable heal that may or may not shield someone else. Read the tooltip on Healing Ward. It is not "you AND your allies". It is "you OR your allies".

Big heals from main dot that can easily do meager amount of heal by not doing much damage (Miss Miss Miss anyone?) and cut by defile. On demand whopping 900 stamina return for 2~4k magicka. And resource return based on RNG (Combustion). And high spell resistance that does not really mean anything when DKs end up dying faster than any other classes in the game given the equal level of competency of players because of horrible sustain next to Stamplars.

And the chain that hands out free CC immunity is sooooo good of a gapcloser with useless buff like 2 Empowers. A skill that also doesn't work when the victim is blocking Yeah, DK is so OP man. Why won't they just lay down and be an AP pinata for you?

Toc de Malsvi

Cage_Lizardman wrote: »

I pvp with a bow and I'm not worried about wings. Just spam light attacks and the DK runs out of resources before I do. So yeah that could probably use some adjustments.

You are either running with a zerg, picking on players that are not fighting you, or playing against really bad players.

Yes you can light attack spam to pop wings but that requires ~2 seconds minimum. During which you are taking that damage back at yourself. During which the DK can pressure you with increased pressure, and no fear of retaliation, from your very own light attacks. Your own light attacks can hit for 2k easily, thats an additional 8k damage minimum back at you that is on top of any dots the DK has applied to you.

You need a minimum of two dodge rolls to make all reflected projectiles miss. So either it is a slightly disadvantaged resource exchange for the DK while you take extra damage, or it is a significantly advantaged resource exchange with neither of you taking damage.

This is of course assuming the wings are used proactively and not reactively. If used reactively to counter your Snipes then you face a much stiffer damage penalty if you do not dodge, as well as a resource exchange loss no matter the number of dodges.

Wings are not a purely defensive mechanic. They are not designed to be a purely defensive mechanic. They are best used reactively and with precision in fights to reverse the fight outcome and or provide additional pressure.

ak_pvp

Berenhir wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

I can't even take this seriously because hAck3rz

Its not 1337speak. Its alternating case, which is more used as a mockery (or a /s) of a quote.

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Also further giving wings projectile immunity wouldn't help DK. Players would gravitate away from projectiles and DKs would end up dropping wings. The situation you have now would still exist, you wouldn't have it when you need it or it would be a worthless slot 90% of the time.

I kind of agree with you. Reflect is a difficult to balance concept, since it is too strong in a 1v1 depending on the build, but useless against certain builds and in outnumbered situations.

The 4s long 3 reflect per person idea that I and a few others have been talking about fixes this, since it has a lower uptime and reflect, but works better against higher numbers, and if it is broken quickly by one enemy, you have to choose whether to refresh it again to have it counter the enemy who broke it, or let it run for full duration against the other enemies who haven't and save resources.

The RNG chance on it wouldn't be good since unlike shuffle, it is only projectiles, not all non dodgable ST skills. DK isn't a mobile class that can avoid damage, DK is a class with all damage inc so needs some sort of way to reliably avoid the harder burst.

DKs have an undodgeable and unblockable gap closer that snares and gives major expedition, has the chance to apply a status effect and empowers two light attacks by 40%. You have a reflect that purges all snares, makes you immune against high damage ranged projectiles and gives you immunity to roots and snares on top of that.

Why are you not a mobile class? Because you fight in melee range? Or do you mean you are not able to (try to) escape a fight at will like a sorc/NB while also being in full control of every melee fight with unavoidable stuns, melee damage reflect, big heals from your main spammable and your main dot, access to healing ward, high resistances, on demand stamina return, a damage type that deals +20% against vampires, low cost offensive spells, access to major mending and an ult that makes you immortal for several seconds?

Chains: Undodgable, still blockable. Snare is kind of moot since your whip does it anyway. Maj expd.. after gapclosing to someone... hmm? Empower. But the empower means you have to run a destro... but your passives mean you have to run a s/b for the 10% more blocked... wait. Pretty solid for zerglings, and it finally works, but not for DK in general, 15m fossilize was better.

Wings immunity: Purges all snares, solid. For 2s... on a 4k ability... on a class that is melee and can't kite very well or roll to avoid direct damage (which is what snares) Shuffle users think 2.5s is too low, and that can be unchained, and is on a mobile class (more on that)

Wings reflect: You did watch the video right? Or are you just asspulling? "Immune" (For 4 only) to Type: Ranged. Subtype: Projectile. Sub subtype: Things that the dev team haven't randomly classed as exempt. Caveat: Any status effects. Newest addition, sloads, no bias at all right? Also, shimmering>>>>>>>>>Wings. Heroism, like a quarter cost > 1 less and no reflects, snare moot point since stamden runs FM with no sacrifice.

Meanwhile... Cloak: Any new single target ability since you are undetectable. Any on target dot. Invisibility. Unlimited targets for too. Bet you'd love if cloak let through 99% of damage and broke with 4 LAs in you general direction hmm? Also, if you are unsnared, cloak grants immunity since you won't be directly damaged by snaring attacks

Not a mobile class because: Not mobile. Mobility is bare min, lowest to only templars, 2s immunity is so low. And the 8s of gapcloser mobility is real useful after you are at the target or if you need to escape.

Stuns: I like these, they are pretty cool... until you look at fear/cripple or rune/mines, and realize 2 other who aren't "stand your ground" classes have them, both having better hardCCs and alright. Melee for both, and roots in general are a lot weaker now. Warden has better talons too lmao, no stun though.

Heals: Again nice. Until defile pops up, at that point i'd prefer shield that synergise well or an "immunity to nearly everything" button that the NBs have. Also, again not a DK unique thing 2 other classes have better heals

Quickfire round: Melee reflect, deals (seriously, its strangely low)100 damage per hit, procs eclipse which is 2k damage per tick. High resistances. Lmao no. On demand stam return. As opposed to better passive sustain, also eaten by overnerfed block being the main defense. Damage type: Moot, DK sacrifices more damage. Healing ward: Literally all mag can, and using heal ward means losing other main defense, HW is preferable for DKs literally only because crybabies got block/heavy nerfed. Low cost offensive spells: Lmao no again. Access to maj mend: Useless for mag, best of pressing the heal button twice, expensive and doesn't fit bar.

Pièce de résistance. The ult, magma armor: Amazing, truly amazing, 200 ult, for 8s of delayed death, because dots and sloads still tick for near full damage, sloads does, and you are still their sitting like a duck. S/B ult is better, since you gain free mitigation to whatever is blocked, and an infinite reflect for its up time, for 65 less ult. How often do you see this eh? Only stam morph on bleed builds who mix this with dots to melt someone.

In summery DK has: Average survivability, good healing but hit directly by meta. Slightly above average CC with 2 classes equaling or beating them, Average pressure with bleed builds being better, Average burst, with NBs/sorcs being better and below average (next patch) mobility, with any stam being better, and only magtemp/magden being worse.

Clear lack of knowledge mate. You want to make an excuse for DK being actually strong, use leap, its pretty insane tbh, decent healing with cauterize, and decent lock down, because everywhere else they are almost outclassed and there is no where they are top, so there is near no point running them. Most DKs I have spoke to only run DK because it is their main, meta MagDK is a worse magblade. Meta stamDK or heavy MagDK is a worse stamden.

ak_pvp

Aedaryl wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3zEQg5K60Q

4 light attacks and none of the projectiles needed. If that was cloak I would have survived.

Meanwhile: The NB and sorc discords had called for even less projectiles to be reflected.

You didn't die because of wings, you died because you was OOM and because you didn't made a dodgeroll.

Its not the OOM that is the problem. It is the performance of wings.

Even if I survived, its a showcase of how poor wings holds up for its price in an openworld scenario. Even an 8k harness *** magicka would have absorbed the light attacks, and gave me mag back for another harness, would it have guaranteed a live, no. But it would have performed better in that scenario.