Why Zaan Is Bad

Emmagoldman

elijafire wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

You’re Zaan’ing wrong. It is extremely strong in PvP, CC as soon as it procs, if it proc’ed on an opponent under 70% HP they die.

Bonus points on NB where you can use incap and minor berserk to increase its damage.

Zaan is absurd when used properly, it’s far more devastating than even Sload’s. If you CC someone and drop your burst during a zaan then you won that fight.

It also doesn’t always render properly which gives you more uncountered ticks. On console it’s not uncommon to get your whole zaan proc to go off without the beam showing up

This is false. CC is unreliable. If you manage to CC someone long enough to get a full zaan proc off on them you could light attack them to death and don't need a monster helmet proc.

IDK about console, on PC it shows instantly and I can choose to get out of it or mitigate it.

Lexy is one of the more knowledable nbs, im pretty sure they can build around the set to land kills np.

In general it still seems if you build around it you can make it strong. ccs, major expedition, speed snare ect. Sets shouldnt be strong in every situation and should be designed around play styles

adeptusminor

Zaan is awful, and nobody should ever use it! (except me)

Waffennacht

I don't think I wanna farm for a heavy helm...

Skoria it is

Jamdarius

Zaan is very good only in special situations, like target dummy and uhm target dummy? Ok joking stops it is also good for immobile bosses whose special 1 hit kill attacks are lesser than 10m range (soon 8m range) or got none of those or u can easily survive them by blocking. TBH there are only few of such creatures, even World Bosses cannot be killed with zaan's help faster cause new ones are highly mobile (take Gryphon for example in Summerset). Well I will keep it locked in my stash, probably forever like most of the sets, theory speaking when zaan somehow procs on PvP use fossilize and u have small chance to keep enemy long enough but to do it u need to try very hard... Now all I wanna say is those damn youtubers making builds that are "sooooo gooood" can go bang their heads on walls. Sure ElF BANE helps sustain, sure you can be target dummy hero with ZAAN, but nothing beats Skoria in real fight... I find BSW + Skoria + Sun Set the best setup (for pve) as I deal only fire dmg. And fire sun set staves come so easy now that u can transmute them, if you know what quest I am talkin about you can get Sun Set special named staff in less than 10 minutes with bad trait, happy googling my fellow Mag DK.

Lexxypwns

Emmagoldman wrote: »

elijafire wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

You’re Zaan’ing wrong. It is extremely strong in PvP, CC as soon as it procs, if it proc’ed on an opponent under 70% HP they die.

Bonus points on NB where you can use incap and minor berserk to increase its damage.

Zaan is absurd when used properly, it’s far more devastating than even Sload’s. If you CC someone and drop your burst during a zaan then you won that fight.

It also doesn’t always render properly which gives you more uncountered ticks. On console it’s not uncommon to get your whole zaan proc to go off without the beam showing up

This is false. CC is unreliable. If you manage to CC someone long enough to get a full zaan proc off on them you could light attack them to death and don't need a monster helmet proc.

IDK about console, on PC it shows instantly and I can choose to get out of it or mitigate it.

Lexy is one of the more knowledable nbs, im pretty sure they can build around the set to land kills np.

In general it still seems if you build around it you can make it strong. ccs, major expedition, speed snare ect. Sets shouldnt be strong in every situation and should be designed around play styles

Aww shucks, thanks for that.

The fact that it’s one of the few sets you can base an entire build around speaks volumes. The fact that the other sets are 5pc sets whereas Zaan is a 2pc is a clear indicator it’s too strong. Keep in mind that there is other incoming damage during the proc as well, which is what pushes it over the edge. You could tank a full zaan proc on basically any class if there weren’t concurrent damage occurring. Obviously any seasoned PVPer knows the value of concurrent damage so I won’t get into all that here.

Let’s look at the math. Base tooltip is ~1700 in PvP, the second tick is ~2550, the third is ~3800, and the fourth is ~5400. I’m ignoring the last two ticks because they’re rarely not countered/the opponent is dead before they occur.

Now let’s factor mitigation/penetration, which leaves heavy armor opponents at 18% with medium and light being between 6-10% less. This gives us ticks of ~1400, ~2100, ~3100, and ~4,400. This is the minimum amount of damage you can expect on a non-tank opponent in heavy armor.

Now, Minor berserk, incap damage bonus, and minor vulnerability push those numbers to ~1,800, 2,730, 4,000, and 5,700. That’s 14.2k in 3 Global Cooldowns, or greater than half a typical opponents health pool. This means if Zaan procs on an opponent with less than 23k health remaining 4 ticks will reliably generate a kill.

Now we have to debunk the myth that countering Zaan is easy. I’ve demonstrated that you have 2 GCD to react to Zaan, since the third GCD/4th tick of Zaan is likely to either be lethal or so compromising to you health that you can’t recover. Since a Zaan proc should always be instantly accompanied by a hard CC as well as standing directly on top of your target this leaves you exactly 1 GCD in which to counter.

Dodge roll does not cover 8m and does not mitigate Zaan damage, trying to dodge roll will get you killed more often than it will break the Zaan proc because the length of a roll animation can cause you to take a 5th tick of ~8.5k.

Ritual/Cleanse is a theoretically viable counter, but in the scenario I’ve layed out you have 2 Effects from Elemental Drain, at least 1 status effect from Elemental weapon, 2 from incap, 2 from Double DoT poison, 2 from Fear, and 1 from Zaan. At most you can remove 5, leaving a very high chance that you won’t even remove Zaan and will eat a 5th tick at a lower damage point of around 7.8k(bringing total Zaan damage above 21k).

Damage shields are a viable option on builds that can produce a single cast shield of 11k or higher, but you must still leave the area or you’ll likely die anyway. That basically eliminates all Mag builds except for sorc.

Heals work, block works, but often doing enough of either of those to survive puts your resources in a bad state and only delays the kill

CaliMade

Valrien wrote: »

CaliMade wrote: »

You guys are trying way too hard to justify this set. Counterable or not, it does too much damage for somthin so damn free. Unless you play the game with your eyes closed you know absolutely nothing is as cut and dry as "move away from them".

Stop comparing it to skoria, skoria does maybe 4k on decent players at best. and last time i checked no other 2pc forces you to outplay it. Your reaching and its very noticeable.

Most 2 pc sets used in PvP require counterplay though

it only two and you know it, Zaan and TK

elijafire

Lexxypwns wrote: »

CaliMade wrote: »

Shadowmaster wrote: »

CaliMade wrote: »

Counterable or not, it does too much damage for somthin so damn free.

Dude you can't walk away? Sprint away? Streak away? Dodge roll away?

Barely anyone is dying to Zaan anymore unless they are in BGs and out of stam. They hardcore nerfed the last 2 ticks with EB/Zaan

Unless you play the game with your eyes closed you know absolutely nothing is as cut and dry as "move away from them".

Streak is a 100% valid counter as long as the Zaan proc starts while your shields are up and have a decent amount of “HP” left on them and your timing is good. If you’re a bit too slow you’ll get the 5th tick and it’s GG. Particularly since you’ll be taking almost the full damage from the Zaan proc and whatever other damage you’re receiving.

All of the counters work in a vacuum some of them even work in practice against a single opponent. None of them are adequate against multiple opponents, even if only 1 is a Zaan build.

TBH I been zaaned twice since this post and I simply walked out of it.

Waffennacht

The last time I got to see Zaan was when I was out numbered.

Pretty sure I died.

I think the dungeon itself is why we see so little of it

testd4n1

Waffennacht wrote: »

The last time I got to see Zaan was when I was out numbered.

Pretty sure I died.

I think the dungeon itself is why we see so little of it

It is not hard to be honest. I fall asleep doing it now.

elijafire

Jamdarius wrote: »

Zaan is very good only in special situations, like target dummy and uhm target dummy? Ok joking stops it is also good for immobile bosses whose special 1 hit kill attacks are lesser than 10m range (soon 8m range) or got none of those or u can easily survive them by blocking. TBH there are only few of such creatures, even World Bosses cannot be killed with zaan's help faster cause new ones are highly mobile (take Gryphon for example in Summerset). Well I will keep it locked in my stash, probably forever like most of the sets, theory speaking when zaan somehow procs on PvP use fossilize and u have small chance to keep enemy long enough but to do it u need to try very hard... Now all I wanna say is those damn youtubers making builds that are "sooooo gooood" can go bang their heads on walls. Sure ElF BANE helps sustain, sure you can be target dummy hero with ZAAN, but nothing beats Skoria in real fight... I find BSW + Skoria + Sun Set the best setup (for pve) as I deal only fire dmg. And fire sun set staves come so easy now that u can transmute them, if you know what quest I am talkin about you can get Sun Set special named staff in less than 10 minutes with bad trait, happy googling my fellow Mag DK.

Yep, you nailed it. This is the solid argument. For giggles I ran Zaan last night in vSO HM to see how it would far on very stationary bosses.

First boss FAIL the few times Zaan went off it got broken before 3rd tick often before 2nd. As anyone who has used the set knows, 3 ticks is garbage. Even with full tick Elf bane niche build it does just enough to beat Skoria the problem is all the conditions make this impossible.

Every boss in between FAIL, not stationary enough and constantly have to stop and do pins.


On trash, FAIL, zaan will often fire off on something besides the target you are clearly aiming your crosshairs at.


On last boss FAIL. 5 times Zaan went off and I had to dodge roll away from it and it broke, the range to keep it up is far too short. 3 times I tried to stay in at its max range and FAIL died every time to one shot mechanic.

This is why you rarely see anyone in bg's use this because against hard content it is utterly useless. Skoria goes BOOM and I can forget it resting assured that it WILL hit its target and do all the damage it is intended to do, barring any mitigation which in itself is a great tool in PvP to get a target on the defense.

It used to be funny when they took advice from people who have obvious hidden agendas or no knowledge of the set in order to decide what to nerf, now it's just getting tiresome.


Eli

ak_pvp

Oh lookie here. The forums were outraged and scared of zaans big scaryy deathrecaps. Dealing 30k damage in 1s, instantly murdering poor players, deleting your character and killing your dog. But it doesn't, I was right. It is instead a normal set that requires thoughts into it to kill and changes playstyle.

The only problem is when you have to LOS but zaan cuts through it and *** you. Also not a fan of it being too easy and RNG to proc.

Runefang

I know it's pretty much never worn in pve anymore. My parses with skoria are just as good and it gives me plenty of health so I can wear regen food.

Waffennacht

testd4n1 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

The last time I got to see Zaan was when I was out numbered.

Pretty sure I died.

I think the dungeon itself is why we see so little of it

It is not hard to be honest. I fall asleep doing it now.

@testd4n1 while once you get the mechanics down it is straight forward. But most players can only PuG, and then the uncertainty of being able to do it keeps people away.

If it comes to the golden vendor.... Uh oh

Tetrafy

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Emmagoldman wrote: »

elijafire wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

You’re Zaan’ing wrong. It is extremely strong in PvP, CC as soon as it procs, if it proc’ed on an opponent under 70% HP they die.

Bonus points on NB where you can use incap and minor berserk to increase its damage.

Zaan is absurd when used properly, it’s far more devastating than even Sload’s. If you CC someone and drop your burst during a zaan then you won that fight.

It also doesn’t always render properly which gives you more uncountered ticks. On console it’s not uncommon to get your whole zaan proc to go off without the beam showing up

This is false. CC is unreliable. If you manage to CC someone long enough to get a full zaan proc off on them you could light attack them to death and don't need a monster helmet proc.

IDK about console, on PC it shows instantly and I can choose to get out of it or mitigate it.

Lexy is one of the more knowledable nbs, im pretty sure they can build around the set to land kills np.

In general it still seems if you build around it you can make it strong. ccs, major expedition, speed snare ect. Sets shouldnt be strong in every situation and should be designed around play styles

Aww shucks, thanks for that.

The fact that it’s one of the few sets you can base an entire build around speaks volumes. The fact that the other sets are 5pc sets whereas Zaan is a 2pc is a clear indicator it’s too strong. Keep in mind that there is other incoming damage during the proc as well, which is what pushes it over the edge. You could tank a full zaan proc on basically any class if there weren’t concurrent damage occurring. Obviously any seasoned PVPer knows the value of concurrent damage so I won’t get into all that here.

Let’s look at the math. Base tooltip is ~1700 in PvP, the second tick is ~2550, the third is ~3800, and the fourth is ~5400. I’m ignoring the last two ticks because they’re rarely not countered/the opponent is dead before they occur.

Now let’s factor mitigation/penetration, which leaves heavy armor opponents at 18% with medium and light being between 6-10% less. This gives us ticks of ~1400, ~2100, ~3100, and ~4,400. This is the minimum amount of damage you can expect on a non-tank opponent in heavy armor.

Now, Minor berserk, incap damage bonus, and minor vulnerability push those numbers to ~1,800, 2,730, 4,000, and 5,700. That’s 14.2k in 3 Global Cooldowns, or greater than half a typical opponents health pool. This means if Zaan procs on an opponent with less than 23k health remaining 4 ticks will reliably generate a kill.

Now we have to debunk the myth that countering Zaan is easy. I’ve demonstrated that you have 2 GCD to react to Zaan, since the third GCD/4th tick of Zaan is likely to either be lethal or so compromising to you health that you can’t recover. Since a Zaan proc should always be instantly accompanied by a hard CC as well as standing directly on top of your target this leaves you exactly 1 GCD in which to counter.

Dodge roll does not cover 8m and does not mitigate Zaan damage, trying to dodge roll will get you killed more often than it will break the Zaan proc because the length of a roll animation can cause you to take a 5th tick of ~8.5k.

Ritual/Cleanse is a theoretically viable counter, but in the scenario I’ve layed out you have 2 Effects from Elemental Drain, at least 1 status effect from Elemental weapon, 2 from incap, 2 from Double DoT poison, 2 from Fear, and 1 from Zaan. At most you can remove 5, leaving a very high chance that you won’t even remove Zaan and will eat a 5th tick at a lower damage point of around 7.8k(bringing total Zaan damage above 21k).

Damage shields are a viable option on builds that can produce a single cast shield of 11k or higher, but you must still leave the area or you’ll likely die anyway. That basically eliminates all Mag builds except for sorc.

Heals work, block works, but often doing enough of either of those to survive puts your resources in a bad state and only delays the kill

Instead of nerfing everything why don't we make other things better? Seriously nothing like the same old stale completely balanced gameplay. You're exageratting and it's good to have a counter to gankblades everywhere stealthing out. Lets nerf steath too while we are at it. Nerf sorc because well it shouldnt be powerful either. And take away dawnies too because its op plz nerf. You act like there arent counters to zaan and there are a ton.

Kadoin

Zaan is only "fine" if you are a speed build or a shieldstacker, otherwise when you get snared + stunned and its on you...

LjAnimalchin

Look all talk of mechanics, counters, whatever aside.. I just don't think there should be any set in the game that can hit you for as much as zaan does, standing in it, not standing in it, wether it's hard to proceed, easy to acquire, none of that matters, the only thing that matters is sets like zaan (and also skoria, sload, viper etc) are *** brain-dead and require little to no thought or skill to use, and I think this is bad for the game. I don't care about any additional factors, just that PROC SETS SHOULDNT DO SO MUCH DAMAGE. I honestly think Zos is unable to bring back proper PvP to this game so they give people these sets to pretend like we still PvP, in reality we are all just at the mercy of our rng procs.

Tetrafy

LjAnimalchin wrote: »

Look all talk of mechanics, counters, whatever aside.. I just don't think there should be any set in the game that can hit you for as much as zaan does, standing in it, not standing in it, wether it's hard to proceed, easy to acquire, none of that matters, the only thing that matters is sets like zaan (and also skoria, sload, viper etc) are *** brain-dead and require little to no thought or skill to use, and I think this is bad for the game. I don't care about any additional factors, just that PROC SETS SHOULDNT DO SO MUCH DAMAGE. I honestly think Zos is unable to bring back proper PvP to this game so they give people these sets to pretend like we still PvP, in reality we are all just at the mercy of our rng procs.

Lets the Devs balance the game out with the new sets like sloads etc. Its giving more choices to the player. There are a ton of good sets that are just as good as zaan including Troll King, Engine Guardian, Skoria, Selenes, Veli, Any pen set, lolbonepirate and duvbious. And a ton of non meta builds that are good. People are just mad they cant be aggressive anymlre because zaan put a stop to gankblade 1 second combo your dead before have time to think. LOL and sorcs are run cage meteoring finishing and some are worried about a set you know why? Not because it's broken but because a select elite few in the pvp community are crying. But if they were actually "good" they would be able to counter play lolzaans mechanics.

webrgesner

DuskMarine wrote: »

elijafire wrote: »

Whenever you are looking at item you have to look at what it replaces. Experienced MMORPGers will all tell you that real application almost always differs drastically from target dummies which seems like where ZoS is getting their primary feedback.

Why Zaan is bad:

* Too easily broken/countered (dodge roll, cleanse, distance)
* Too small percentage chance of proc
* Too short a range in order to proc
* Too long of a time to be forced to stay at a certain range of the target
* Too slow of a buildup
* Too visible in PvP so easy to counter (unless you are wearing Zaan and aren't sure whose proc it is)
* You are giving up Valky Skoria which has none of these problems and does very similar dps
* You are giving up Valky Skoria which has none of these problems and gives you more survivability

I've died to Zaan twice in PvP once because I was semi afk holding block on a flag in a BG and the other because I was wearing Zaan and thought it was mine that had procced. Zaan fails.
I've had Zaan proc 5 times in what I consider "hard" fights vet DLC dungeons and trials out of those 5 times zero of them have gotten all ticks off because of game mechanics. Conversely my Valkyn procs all the time with a satisfying BOOM and I can now forget about it.


TLDNR: Taking the Zaan monster helmet set over Valkyn Skoria is a DPS loss in every scenario except fights that are easy and the DPS gain become irrelevant. In order to be viable this set will need to be buffed considerably including its proc range and its cleansability as well as reverted to it's original state.

So why did ZoS decide to nerf Zaan over and over in spite of it being a very niche (just okay) set from the start? My observations are that ZoS relies heavily on inexperienced testers who use a set on a target dummy then declare it to be "over powered" without any further testing or real experience. This set should have been tested in most if not all difficult content such as DLC hard modes and pvp extensively before making it worse (now useless) with needless nerfs.

zaans very strong in pve but in pvp its practically worthless.

Useless in PvP? YOu can make some crazy dueling build with it. not only that, but in BG my deathrecap from zaan was 22k couldnt clense through it since i had other debuffs and im a stamplar. you cant even outheal it in bg. In cp campaign it hit me for 14k on my deathrecap. I dont use it but its cheese and op. So think twice when you say its useless in PvP @DuskMarine

XiDiabolismiX

elijafire wrote: »

Jamdarius wrote: »

Zaan is very good only in special situations, like target dummy and uhm target dummy? Ok joking stops it is also good for immobile bosses whose special 1 hit kill attacks are lesser than 10m range (soon 8m range) or got none of those or u can easily survive them by blocking. TBH there are only few of such creatures, even World Bosses cannot be killed with zaan's help faster cause new ones are highly mobile (take Gryphon for example in Summerset). Well I will keep it locked in my stash, probably forever like most of the sets, theory speaking when zaan somehow procs on PvP use fossilize and u have small chance to keep enemy long enough but to do it u need to try very hard... Now all I wanna say is those damn youtubers making builds that are "sooooo gooood" can go bang their heads on walls. Sure ElF BANE helps sustain, sure you can be target dummy hero with ZAAN, but nothing beats Skoria in real fight... I find BSW + Skoria + Sun Set the best setup (for pve) as I deal only fire dmg. And fire sun set staves come so easy now that u can transmute them, if you know what quest I am talkin about you can get Sun Set special named staff in less than 10 minutes with bad trait, happy googling my fellow Mag DK.

Yep, you nailed it. This is the solid argument. For giggles I ran Zaan last night in vSO HM to see how it would far on very stationary bosses.

First boss FAIL the few times Zaan went off it got broken before 3rd tick often before 2nd. As anyone who has used the set knows, 3 ticks is garbage. Even with full tick Elf bane niche build it does just enough to beat Skoria the problem is all the conditions make this impossible.

Every boss in between FAIL, not stationary enough and constantly have to stop and do pins.


On trash, FAIL, zaan will often fire off on something besides the target you are clearly aiming your crosshairs at.


On last boss FAIL. 5 times Zaan went off and I had to dodge roll away from it and it broke, the range to keep it up is far too short. 3 times I tried to stay in at its max range and FAIL died every time to one shot mechanic.

This is why you rarely see anyone in bg's use this because against hard content it is utterly useless. Skoria goes BOOM and I can forget it resting assured that it WILL hit its target and do all the damage it is intended to do, barring any mitigation which in itself is a great tool in PvP to get a target on the defense.

It used to be funny when they took advice from people who have obvious hidden agendas or no knowledge of the set in order to decide what to nerf, now it's just getting tiresome.


Eli

Poor testing because you’re obviously not stacking correctly. If anything, Zaan should be OP in the specific trial you mentioned, so gg.

Mantikora - stacked around boss unless on shard team, close enough for proc. Popcorn and portal should be the only thing you move away from, then it’s a straight stack and burn (Zaan op)

Troll - like Manti, stacked around boss and just block casting... close enough for full procs and should never break (Zaan op)

Ozara - again, stacked around boss close enough for Zaan proc, and you should never have to run far enough to grab a pin... (Zaan op)

Serpent - .... guess what... stacked again! Only time a Zaan break will happen is during world shaper or pink bubble phase if your group cannot kill it before the first bubble phase, so again.... (Zaan op)

Trash - understandable, but as long as you prioritize your targets, ie.. lightning dudes, trolls, serpent fang, then everything else... it should far outweigh the damage done regardless of your target. Everything needs to die in trash right? So why not kill anything quicker.

As I’ve highlighted, it is a situational set to a certain extent. Due to general group strategy in a pve environment, I’d say 85% of the boss fights in craglorn and vmaw it is viable, with only a few bosses in vhof. The new dlc trials are where it is iffy. So please don’t compare a set to crappy group play, at least in pve.

You also fail to realize the set has been tested with live combat metrics during every trial scenario and compared with other sets, that’s why people are using it. The dummy comparison is a poor argument and it always has been.

So I’m assuming this is a troll post...

DuskMarine

webrgesner wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

elijafire wrote: »

Whenever you are looking at item you have to look at what it replaces. Experienced MMORPGers will all tell you that real application almost always differs drastically from target dummies which seems like where ZoS is getting their primary feedback.

Why Zaan is bad:

* Too easily broken/countered (dodge roll, cleanse, distance)
* Too small percentage chance of proc
* Too short a range in order to proc
* Too long of a time to be forced to stay at a certain range of the target
* Too slow of a buildup
* Too visible in PvP so easy to counter (unless you are wearing Zaan and aren't sure whose proc it is)
* You are giving up Valky Skoria which has none of these problems and does very similar dps
* You are giving up Valky Skoria which has none of these problems and gives you more survivability

I've died to Zaan twice in PvP once because I was semi afk holding block on a flag in a BG and the other because I was wearing Zaan and thought it was mine that had procced. Zaan fails.
I've had Zaan proc 5 times in what I consider "hard" fights vet DLC dungeons and trials out of those 5 times zero of them have gotten all ticks off because of game mechanics. Conversely my Valkyn procs all the time with a satisfying BOOM and I can now forget about it.


TLDNR: Taking the Zaan monster helmet set over Valkyn Skoria is a DPS loss in every scenario except fights that are easy and the DPS gain become irrelevant. In order to be viable this set will need to be buffed considerably including its proc range and its cleansability as well as reverted to it's original state.

So why did ZoS decide to nerf Zaan over and over in spite of it being a very niche (just okay) set from the start? My observations are that ZoS relies heavily on inexperienced testers who use a set on a target dummy then declare it to be "over powered" without any further testing or real experience. This set should have been tested in most if not all difficult content such as DLC hard modes and pvp extensively before making it worse (now useless) with needless nerfs.

zaans very strong in pve but in pvp its practically worthless.

Useless in PvP? YOu can make some crazy dueling build with it. not only that, but in BG my deathrecap from zaan was 22k couldnt clense through it since i had other debuffs and im a stamplar. you cant even outheal it in bg. In cp campaign it hit me for 14k on my deathrecap. I dont use it but its cheese and op. So think twice when you say its useless in PvP @DuskMarine

what your saying is a l2p issue man. cause that set in pvp is useless you have to be right on your opponents seat to make it work but even then they move or roll dodge(which actually dodges the first ticks as well as breaks the line) theyll come back around and rip you in half before you can breathe. so yea its a useless set in pvp.

Waffennacht

Let's be far, I did make a Zaan video of BG slaughter

So when everyone says it's just videos against dummies just remember that.

(PS you'd probably recognize a few gamertag too)

callen4492

themaddaedra wrote: »

For PvP, it's def stupid strong on magdk. Especially in BGs where fight is heavily stuck by snares, roots and huge, disabling aoe affects. Just run across a group of a magdk, a magden, 2 templar healbots. They'll just nail you where you stand and won't let go. All a magdk has to do is to spam roots and light attacks at this point. Zaan will do the rest.

Anybody who says Zaan is strong in PvP just hasn’t used it. I used it for a while just to see what all the hullaballo was about and it was very lackluster. And yes, it was on my main- a dark elf mag dk. If you have used it and still think it’s good, you really need help designing your character because there are WAY better options aka Valkyn Skoria.

Lexxypwns

callen4492 wrote: »

themaddaedra wrote: »

For PvP, it's def stupid strong on magdk. Especially in BGs where fight is heavily stuck by snares, roots and huge, disabling aoe affects. Just run across a group of a magdk, a magden, 2 templar healbots. They'll just nail you where you stand and won't let go. All a magdk has to do is to spam roots and light attacks at this point. Zaan will do the rest.

Anybody who says Zaan is strong in PvP just hasn’t used it. I used it for a while just to see what all the hullaballo was about and it was very lackluster. And yes, it was on my main- a dark elf mag dk. If you have used it and still think it’s good, you really need help designing your character because there are WAY better options aka Valkyn Skoria.

And what did you do to build for Zaan? You running chains, speed pots, rooting poisons, holding your CC for when zaan procs?

Skoria is more pressure but far less burst

elijafire

Tetrafy wrote: »

anyone who cant beat zaan is a learn to play issue the set is horrible in pvp(especially against the ones its meant to kill being gankers) the set is only ever decent(not good) in some instances of pve. the damage it outputs in pve is almost required in some instances in pve but pvp it has no place and is completely useless against a skilled player. you roll dodge it renders zaan useless. anyone saying its one of the most op pvp sets is running into a learn to play wall. if you wanna say somethings broken keep poking sloads with a stick as thats still broken even in pts.

I'd agree except about the PvE "required" bit, it's far too unpredictable to be relied upon in any "required" instance. Even if you didn't light attack weave at all until you needed burst you could attack 10+ times and not even get a Zaan proc. More reliable sets will do in every burst situation.

Tetrafy wrote: »

Not everyone that disagrees with you is "mad". The only reason it is relevant to you is because you're a gank nightblade and zaan [could have been] one of your only counters to you going 50 and 2. You can counter zaan easily in many ways, again Im not sure why compared to skoria or selenes or loltrollking that zaan is even relevant. You need to get up close and sacrafice range to get a kill. I may not be the top 1 percent of this game, but I have in many others. So when I see other good players complaining about a skill when on a micro level you can counter zaan I give ny head a shake.

*fixed the part about Zaan being even remotely useful as it's obviously not and highlighted the most important point which is you in 5-7 light armor have to get up close and personal with aoe execute spamming melee all while light attacking every 1 second praying that that tiny tiny proc chance goes off only to watch it get countered easily once it does LOL!!!

Waffennacht

Something wrong with post.

I don't think I countered any argument tho

Also, Zaan is best on something like:

Warden "OP" Build

elijafire

Waffennacht wrote: »

Something wrong with post.

I don't think I countered any argument tho

Also, Zaan is best on something like:

Warden "OP" Build

'nough said.

[Deleted User]

Hello everyone,

Recently we've had to remove a few posts for flaming and baiting, both being against the Forum Rules. For further posts please be sure to stay on topic, constructive and respectful to prevent thread closure or action on one's own account.

Thank you for understanding.

DanteYoda

First its sloads now its zaan.. holy god..

Malacthulhu

Shadowmaster wrote: »

themaddaedra wrote: »

Not even saying Sload, which has been f**ing cloak for 2 months (3 including PTS) now and they say it was unintended. Unintendedly killing a class for months without a fix lol.

Maybe you just arrived, I dont know, but I'd say some aspect of cloak has been broken for roughly 60% of this games existence.

I assume you were not here for 100% of its existence or understating lol.

Waffennacht

DanteYoda wrote: »

First its sloads now its zaan.. holy god..

Scratch that
Reverse it