Why Zaan Is Bad

elijafire

Whenever you are looking at item you have to look at what it replaces. Experienced MMORPGers will all tell you that real application almost always differs drastically from target dummies which seems like where ZoS is getting their primary feedback.

Why Zaan is bad:

* Too easily broken/countered (dodge roll, cleanse, distance)
* Too small percentage chance of proc
* Too short a range in order to proc
* Too long of a time to be forced to stay at a certain range of the target
* Too slow of a buildup
* Too visible in PvP so easy to counter (unless you are wearing Zaan and aren't sure whose proc it is)
* You are giving up Valky Skoria which has none of these problems and does very similar dps
* You are giving up Valky Skoria which has none of these problems and gives you more survivability

I've died to Zaan twice in PvP once because I was semi afk holding block on a flag in a BG and the other because I was wearing Zaan and thought it was mine that had procced. Zaan fails.
I've had Zaan proc 5 times in what I consider "hard" fights vet DLC dungeons and trials out of those 5 times zero of them have gotten all ticks off because of game mechanics. Conversely my Valkyn procs all the time with a satisfying BOOM and I can now forget about it.


TLDNR: Taking the Zaan monster helmet set over Valkyn Skoria is a DPS loss in every scenario except fights that are easy and the DPS gain become irrelevant. In order to be viable this set will need to be buffed considerably including its proc range and its cleansability as well as reverted to it's original state.

So why did ZoS decide to nerf Zaan over and over in spite of it being a very niche (just okay) set from the start? My observations are that ZoS relies heavily on inexperienced testers who use a set on a target dummy then declare it to be "over powered" without any further testing or real experience. This set should have been tested in most if not all difficult content such as DLC hard modes and pvp extensively before making it worse (now useless) with needless nerfs.

DuskMarine

elijafire wrote: »

Whenever you are looking at item you have to look at what it replaces. Experienced MMORPGers will all tell you that real application almost always differs drastically from target dummies which seems like where ZoS is getting their primary feedback.

Why Zaan is bad:

* Too easily broken/countered (dodge roll, cleanse, distance)
* Too small percentage chance of proc
* Too short a range in order to proc
* Too long of a time to be forced to stay at a certain range of the target
* Too slow of a buildup
* Too visible in PvP so easy to counter (unless you are wearing Zaan and aren't sure whose proc it is)
* You are giving up Valky Skoria which has none of these problems and does very similar dps
* You are giving up Valky Skoria which has none of these problems and gives you more survivability

I've died to Zaan twice in PvP once because I was semi afk holding block on a flag in a BG and the other because I was wearing Zaan and thought it was mine that had procced. Zaan fails.
I've had Zaan proc 5 times in what I consider "hard" fights vet DLC dungeons and trials out of those 5 times zero of them have gotten all ticks off because of game mechanics. Conversely my Valkyn procs all the time with a satisfying BOOM and I can now forget about it.


TLDNR: Taking the Zaan monster helmet set over Valkyn Skoria is a DPS loss in every scenario except fights that are easy and the DPS gain become irrelevant. In order to be viable this set will need to be buffed considerably including its proc range and its cleansability as well as reverted to it's original state.

So why did ZoS decide to nerf Zaan over and over in spite of it being a very niche (just okay) set from the start? My observations are that ZoS relies heavily on inexperienced testers who use a set on a target dummy then declare it to be "over powered" without any further testing or real experience. This set should have been tested in most if not all difficult content such as DLC hard modes and pvp extensively before making it worse (now useless) with needless nerfs.

zaans very strong in pve but in pvp its practically worthless.

elijafire

I would agree but for the fact that I have used it in vSP HM vFL HM CR +3 etc etc etc and it fails to outperform Valkyn in every fight.

The only place it does outperform is on a target dummy, really easy pve content where you can just sit there on a boss and do your rotation and against people who don't know how to dodge roll, cleanse, block or sprint in pvp.

All of these cases the Valkyn would perform just as well anyway so the point is moot, the person is dead either way.

Chibs

Zaan is mainly a DPS test set kinda similar to Ilambris. I’ve found that Skoria is better in pretty much any dungeon/pvp/bg/trial/any content you can think of scenario. Zaan is BIS at inflating dps numbers on target dummies.

elijafire

Chibs wrote: »

Zaan is mainly a DPS test set kinda similar to Ilambris. I’ve found that Skoria is better in pretty much any dungeon/pvp/bg/trial/any content you can think of scenario. Zaan is BIS at inflating dps numbers on target dummies.

^ couldn't have said it better.

Carbonised

Exactly. The set has so many conditions to its damage, vs the instant damage of other proc sets.

But oh no, the bawling and screaming proc-hating minority of pvp'ers just had to make a gazillion posts about this on the last PTS and then the general forum, spamming screenshots of parses vs a stupid, inanimate combat doll that stands absolutely still.

Combat dummies have done so much harm to the balance of this game. People blindly judge every set's worth against something that stands perfectly still and is vulnerable all the time, whereas every new content whether it be trials or dungeons, as well as pvp, is nothing but people and bosses milling about constantly, bosses often flying to the other end of the room, having invulnerability phases and small windows where you can actually put on the DPS etc etc etc.

Stupid people thinking stupid thoughts is what led to this stupid situation. Congrats on getting Zaan nerfed into uselessnes. I hope you enjoy getting Skoria proc'ed to Oblivion.

jaschacasadiob16_ESO

I remember I used Zaan in a couple of occasions:

• Test on a dummy.
• Cos I left Skoria/Ilambris on another toon.

But hey, it's just two spaces in the bank. It does not hurt to have it stored there.

themaddaedra

Well Zaan is not bad at all. I mean it's not stupid strong or sth but it's not bad either.

You don't have to use it in every single scenario. There are quite some boss fights (including vCR) where you can make the best out using Zaan. Not every monster has to work the same. I for one only use Valkyn or Ilambris if i desperately have to stay ranged (such as vAS +2).

For PvP, it's def stupid strong on magdk. Especially in BGs where fight is heavily stuck by snares, roots and huge, disabling aoe affects. Just run across a group of a magdk, a magden, 2 templar healbots. They'll just nail you where you stand and won't let go. All a magdk has to do is to spam roots and light attacks at this point. Zaan will do the rest.

Mayrael

PvE wise this set is realy bad. PvP when used wise can be deadly as it hit like a Mac truck (15-20k death recaps on live) all you need to do is to make sure it won't get cloaked (mages light, det pot, piercing mark etc.) or broken (snares, roots, hard cc, gapclosers). If you fail, you don't deserve the kill that's all. It's high risk/high reward set. You can't expect that set that deals over 15k dmg in PvP will have no counterplay (no cleanse or cloak), short cool down and fast channel.

themaddaedra

Mayrael wrote: »

PvE wise this set is realy bad. PvP when used wise can be deadly as it hit like a Mac truck (15-20k death recaps on live) all you need to do is to make sure it won't get cloaked (mages light, det pot, piercing mark etc.) or broken (snares, roots, hard cc, gapclosers). If you fail, you don't deserve the kill that's all. It's high risk/high reward set. You can't expect that set that deals over 15k dmg in PvP will have no counterplay (no cleanse or cloak), short cool down and fast channel.

You don't really need to bother avoiding cloak lol, there's no such ability in BGs. Just sneezing is enough for someone to break/avoid cloak.

Not even saying Sload, which has been f**ing cloak for 2 months (3 including PTS) now and they say it was unintended. Unintendedly killing a class for months without a fix lol.

MLGProPlayer

Chibs wrote: »

Zaan is mainly a DPS test set kinda similar to Ilambris. I’ve found that Skoria is better in pretty much any dungeon/pvp/bg/trial/any content you can think of scenario. Zaan is BIS at inflating dps numbers on target dummies.

Zaan is fantastic in stack and burn fights, which is a lot of boss fights. It adds a huge amount of DPS over Skoria (like 3-4k).

I have both and I prefer Skoria because it's more versatile, but Zaan is much stronger in the fights where you can use it.

MrGarlic

It's a situational set.

I find in Aetherian Archive it is excellent. Anywhere you have a static target it works really well. For me in those situations, it can be better than Illambris.

Valkyn Skoria is much better on mobile targets.

If Zaans is good or bad really comes down to how and where you use it.

Jurand80

Imho zaan needs a cool sound effect that reflects dmg increase over time. Skoria has the satisfying sudden meteor ooompf.

ZeroXFF

I tested Zaan on my magblade, and it's definitely an improvement when I can stay in melee range. But nobody wants a magblade to stay in melee, so this is only useful on low movement fights in dungeons. This set is also not very good on stam builds.

So conclusion:
This set is made for magDKs and magplars to keep them at least somewhat competitive in PvE.

Guppet

Chibs wrote: »

Zaan is mainly a DPS test set kinda similar to Ilambris. I’ve found that Skoria is better in pretty much any dungeon/pvp/bg/trial/any content you can think of scenario. Zaan is BIS at inflating dps numbers on target dummies.

Are you suggesting that real world performance and testing in laboratory conditions may produce differing results?

Burn him!! Kill him with fire!!!

Raammzzaa

Zaan can be good in pvp on some magblade gank builds. Grothdarr is probably still better.

Lexxypwns

You’re Zaan’ing wrong. It is extremely strong in PvP, CC as soon as it procs, if it proc’ed on an opponent under 70% HP they die.

Bonus points on NB where you can use incap and minor berserk to increase its damage.

Zaan is absurd when used properly, it’s far more devastating than even Sload’s. If you CC someone and drop your burst during a zaan then you won that fight.

It also doesn’t always render properly which gives you more uncountered ticks. On console it’s not uncommon to get your whole zaan proc to go off without the beam showing up

Prabooo

ZeroXFF wrote: »

This set is also not very good on stam builds.

What stambuild would use this set? Doesn't the damage for fire scale with mag/spell dmg?

Odovacar

#LongLiveValkynSkoria

Sparr0w

I main a stam char so even when on mag I rarely play ranged. If you can keep the beam Zaan will far out do Skoria, PvE and PvP.

Valrien

Zaan + Elf Bane + CC = GG

Asardes

I considered it for PvP but I ended up staying with Skoria since it's far more reliable, especially on classes such as Templar and DK that have 4-5 DoTs running all the time. It drops like clockwork after the cooldown is over.

Shadowmaster

Valrien wrote: »

Zaan + Elf Bane + CC = GG

they nerfed this.

what fool char is standing next to me for 6 ticks now cmon

Shadowmaster

themaddaedra wrote: »

Not even saying Sload, which has been f**ing cloak for 2 months (3 including PTS) now and they say it was unintended. Unintendedly killing a class for months without a fix lol.

Maybe you just arrived, I dont know, but I'd say some aspect of cloak has been broken for roughly 60% of this games existence.

themaddaedra

Shadowmaster wrote: »

themaddaedra wrote: »

Not even saying Sload, which has been f**ing cloak for 2 months (3 including PTS) now and they say it was unintended. Unintendedly killing a class for months without a fix lol.

Maybe you just arrived, I dont know, but I'd say some aspect of cloak has been broken for roughly 60% of this games existence.

? That's what i already said?

Enslaved

elijafire wrote: »

Whenever you are looking at item you have to look at what it replaces. Experienced MMORPGers will all tell you that real application almost always differs drastically from target dummies which seems like where ZoS is getting their primary feedback.

Why Zaan is bad:

* Too easily broken/countered (dodge roll, cleanse, distance)
* Too small percentage chance of proc
* Too short a range in order to proc
* Too long of a time to be forced to stay at a certain range of the target
* Too slow of a buildup
* Too visible in PvP so easy to counter (unless you are wearing Zaan and aren't sure whose proc it is)
* You are giving up Valky Skoria which has none of these problems and does very similar dps
* You are giving up Valky Skoria which has none of these problems and gives you more survivability

I've died to Zaan twice in PvP once because I was semi afk holding block on a flag in a BG and the other because I was wearing Zaan and thought it was mine that had procced. Zaan fails.
I've had Zaan proc 5 times in what I consider "hard" fights vet DLC dungeons and trials out of those 5 times zero of them have gotten all ticks off because of game mechanics. Conversely my Valkyn procs all the time with a satisfying BOOM and I can now forget about it.


TLDNR: Taking the Zaan monster helmet set over Valkyn Skoria is a DPS loss in every scenario except fights that are easy and the DPS gain become irrelevant. In order to be viable this set will need to be buffed considerably including its proc range and its cleansability as well as reverted to it's original state.

So why did ZoS decide to nerf Zaan over and over in spite of it being a very niche (just okay) set from the start? My observations are that ZoS relies heavily on inexperienced testers who use a set on a target dummy then declare it to be "over powered" without any further testing or real experience. This set should have been tested in most if not all difficult content such as DLC hard modes and pvp extensively before making it worse (now useless) with needless nerfs.

0/10 troll thread, or just blatant lies.

King_Thelon

0/10 troll thread

testd4n1

Prabooo wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

This set is also not very good on stam builds.

What stambuild would use this set? Doesn't the damage for fire scale with mag/spell dmg?

Your stats outside of penetration don't affect Za'an. Except for Elfbane.

Lexxypwns

testd4n1 wrote: »

Prabooo wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

This set is also not very good on stam builds.

What stambuild would use this set? Doesn't the damage for fire scale with mag/spell dmg?

Your stats outside of penetration don't affect Za'an. Except for Elfbane.

CP does though

elijafire

Lexxypwns wrote: »

You’re Zaan’ing wrong. It is extremely strong in PvP, CC as soon as it procs, if it proc’ed on an opponent under 70% HP they die.

Bonus points on NB where you can use incap and minor berserk to increase its damage.

Zaan is absurd when used properly, it’s far more devastating than even Sload’s. If you CC someone and drop your burst during a zaan then you won that fight.

It also doesn’t always render properly which gives you more uncountered ticks. On console it’s not uncommon to get your whole zaan proc to go off without the beam showing up

This is false. CC is unreliable. If you manage to CC someone long enough to get a full zaan proc off on them you could light attack them to death and don't need a monster helmet proc.

IDK about console, on PC it shows instantly and I can choose to get out of it or mitigate it.

CaliMade

You guys are trying way too hard to justify this set. Counterable or not, it does too much damage for somthin so damn free. Unless you play the game with your eyes closed you know absolutely nothing is as cut and dry as "move away from them".

Stop comparing it to skoria, skoria does maybe 4k on decent players at best. and last time i checked no other 2pc forces you to outplay it. Your reaching and its very noticeable.