Immersion and the justice system

Nightfall12
Nightfall12
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First off there are quirks to the system that I know are just eh. Like how guards in riften instantly know if you lifted a tomato from daggerfall, like come on those places are at war with each other arnt you happy i brought home a precious red free from the enemy clutches! they surely were planning to do bad things to it. Or how any crime is reported when there were no surviving witnesses. And how if you start a new toon it is automatically set to " GO FOR IT attack innocents!" and then the beginner mission for DC at least has bloodthorn cultists appear and attack you from stealth, in a crowded inn full of NPCS that for some reason are invisible, oh yeah and the invincible dragonknight guards are always right there and never see the cultist that is you know plotting to murder the king!? And indoors it is always a kill on sight level of bounty...
these are all quirks that are eh....
..but what really gets me is that same guard that can hear an accidental attack in the crowded inn with bards and loads of drunken revelry, never stops to look at the ridiculous murder sprees that are going on in the streets. How many massive bloodbaths have struck the streets as folk not even pick.pick.stab everyone in sight, but blatantly full on chop down everyone in sight! Why are there never any guards in these moments! I would think if there was that level of carnage going on the screams would warrant investigating...Maybe increased guard presence when someones accrues a bounty you know over 10k!

SO what changes would you want to see to this system.....and player bounties will most likely never happen.....i dont need 18 baby Templars jabbing me every time i accidentally steal a tomato.
Ummm stuff… about stuff…or something.
  • Taleof2Cities
    Taleof2Cities
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    ..but what really gets me is that same guard that can hear an accidental attack in the crowded inn with bards and loads of drunken revelry, never stops to look at the ridiculous murder sprees that are going on in the streets.

    A Master Thief does not care about what others have going on in the streets ... he (she) only cares about not getting caught.
    "May you walk on warm sands."
    "First, I would ask that you look to the poor and the suffering around Cyrodiil. Look into their hearts, and then look into your own."
    "May Auri-El's light guide you in your darkest hours."

    North American (NA) PC Megaserver / Daggerfall Covenant (click to view):
    Vilerihala - Magicka Templar (Altmer ~ Dedicated Healer) ~ Màisalihna - Stamina Dragonknight (Bosmer) ~ Áhliaselia - Stamina Templar (Bosmer) ~ Thraccenia Vendicci - Stamina Sorcerer (Imperial) ~ Wenayastare - Magicka Dragonknight (Altmer) ~ Aráliavina - Stamina Nightblade (Bosmer) ~ Ysyna Rielle - Magicka Warden (Breton) ~ Rhusannah - Stamina Nightblade (Redguard) ~ Eirellonye - Magicka Nightblade (Altmer) ~ Lae'Suuriávia - Stamina Warden (Bosmer) ~ Dralora Savani - Magicka Sorcerer (Dunmer) ~ Vilinalara - Magicka Sorcerer (Altmer ~ Grand Master Crafter) ~ Billows-With-Incense - Magicka Warden (Argonian; Aldmeri Dominion)
  • TheShadowScout
    TheShadowScout
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    Immersion and the justice system
    ...and that is why some people want more Justice! Better Justice! Great Justice!
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/384538/for-great-justice/p1 ;)
    "True understanding can be found only in the Shadow between Light and Dark..."
    Leskandera - Sneaky Dunmer Bounty Huntress
    Kelasendar - Sorcerous Dunmer Goth Librarian
    Kes dre-Lana - Amazonian Orsimer Craftsmistress
  • Aesthier
    Aesthier
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    Immersion and the justice system
    ...and that is why some people want more Justice! Better Justice! Great Justice!
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/384538/for-great-justice/p1 ;)


    ^ Only if it's an opt-in system.
  • TheShadowScout
    TheShadowScout
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    Aesthier wrote: »
    Immersion and the justice system
    ...and that is why some people want more Justice! Better Justice! Great Justice!
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/384538/for-great-justice/p1 ;)
    ^ Only if it's an opt-in system.
    All Justice is an opt-in system. After all, you can decide not to have your characters break the law... (or at least work on not get caught doing it :p )
    "True understanding can be found only in the Shadow between Light and Dark..."
    Leskandera - Sneaky Dunmer Bounty Huntress
    Kelasendar - Sorcerous Dunmer Goth Librarian
    Kes dre-Lana - Amazonian Orsimer Craftsmistress
  • Aesthier
    Aesthier
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    Aesthier wrote: »
    Immersion and the justice system
    ...and that is why some people want more Justice! Better Justice! Great Justice!
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/384538/for-great-justice/p1 ;)
    ^ Only if it's an opt-in system.
    All Justice is an opt-in system. After all, you can decide not to have your characters break the law... (or at least work on not get caught doing it :p )

    Then no absolutely not.

    To many people get hit with bounties because they tried to turn in crafting writs or talk to a Guild Trader and accidentally picked up an apple.

    I did read your full post btw and for my playstyle, it's not immersive at all but I understand for some it would be.

    I am not against adding more options but removing already existing options for others is simply selfish.
  • TheShadowScout
    TheShadowScout
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    Aesthier wrote: »
    Aesthier wrote: »
    Immersion and the justice system
    ...and that is why some people want more Justice! Better Justice! Great Justice!
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/384538/for-great-justice/p1 ;)
    ^ Only if it's an opt-in system.
    All Justice is an opt-in system. After all, you can decide not to have your characters break the law... (or at least work on not get caught doing it :p )

    Then no absolutely not.

    To many people get hit with bounties because they tried to turn in crafting writs or talk to a Guild Trader and accidentally picked up an apple...
    And they would just have to pay the fine. Instead of just waiting for the bounty to go away. Or...
    Stop_b7e4cb_1063655.jpg
    :p ;)

    The ideas I am having are not for low bounty apple thieves. But for those who blatantly murder in borad daylight just because it lets them pickpocket more... who realized the punishments are laughable for a player character, and way too easily evaded.
    "True understanding can be found only in the Shadow between Light and Dark..."
    Leskandera - Sneaky Dunmer Bounty Huntress
    Kelasendar - Sorcerous Dunmer Goth Librarian
    Kes dre-Lana - Amazonian Orsimer Craftsmistress
  • Aesthier
    Aesthier
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    Aesthier wrote: »
    Aesthier wrote: »
    Immersion and the justice system
    ...and that is why some people want more Justice! Better Justice! Great Justice!
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/384538/for-great-justice/p1 ;)
    ^ Only if it's an opt-in system.
    All Justice is an opt-in system. After all, you can decide not to have your characters break the law... (or at least work on not get caught doing it :p )

    Then no absolutely not.

    To many people get hit with bounties because they tried to turn in crafting writs or talk to a Guild Trader and accidentally picked up an apple...
    And they would just have to pay the fine. Instead of just waiting for the bounty to go away. Or...
    Stop_b7e4cb_1063655.jpg
    :p ;)

    The ideas I am having are not for low bounty apple thieves. But for those who blatantly murder in borad daylight just because it lets them pickpocket more... who realized the punishments are laughable for a player character, and way too easily evaded.

    And again having the option added so that you can play in ^ that manner is fine however suggesting that it become the new standard is simply selfish and shortsighted by taking away a playstyle that already exists and some enjoy.

    I worked hard to become the thief/assassin I am I would find it more immersive if you could kill any witnesses thereby negating the bounty if done quickly and without more witnesses. I would also find it more immersive if guards were killable instead of the unkillable behemoths that they are. It isn't very immersive that everyone in Tamriel wants my help stopping Daedra when any single guard in a town could slaughter the lot of them because guards can't die. However, I recognize that some others enjoy the fact they can't kill witnesses or guards to reduce bounties and I wouldn't suggest it unless there was a way to make it an optional choice.

    I also find a plethora of character names to be immersion breaking but I understand that some players simply enjoy making ridiculous names; that is their playstyle and makes the game more enjoyable for them. But I do have the option to turn those names off.

    So yeah if you want to add an opt in or opt out choice to your suggestion then sure I would support it but without that then my vote will remain hell no.





  • UnseenCat
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    Just tweaking it so your bounty is only valid within one zone (or maybe group of adjacent zones for high bounties) would add some dimension and immersion for RPing a thief/assassin character.

    At the very least, bounties shouldn't cross alliance borders.

    For more fun, make bribe options (And bribe amounts) more frequent and variable in more lawless/corrupt areas like the Gold Coast and Hew's Bane.
  • TheShadowScout
    TheShadowScout
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    Aesthier wrote: »
    And again having the option added so that you can play in ^ that manner is fine however suggesting that it become the new standard is simply selfish and shortsighted by taking away a playstyle that already exists and some enjoy...
    You know, I have hear the -exact- same kind of argument before.
    ...
    Back when the justice system first came online, and people were "Oh, noes, I used to be able to steal everything, and now I gotta watch my sticky fingers? Can't we opt out of the justice system, let people who like that play with guards and bounty, and let us have the lawless playstyle we enjoyed since launch"...
    And I can understand that some people want to steal or murder in a virtual world without consequence (or at least with neglectable ones like we currently get in ESO - which was not how they planned it actually from all I know, the PvP portion of the justice system was supposed to pick up that slack, but they later changed their mind about mixing PvP into PvE regions, and so it was shelved...)
    Aesthier wrote: »
    I worked hard to become the thief/assassin I am I would find it more immersive if you could kill any witnesses thereby negating the bounty if done quickly and without more witnesses.
    ...yeah, riiiight. In a world with -magic- that lets the law question the darn frigging spirits of the murdered???
    Think again.
    (and yes, this is actually a thing in tamriel, as we learn during a certain summerset quest.)

    I would suggest you work just as hard at stealing and murdering smarter instead of more. My main is a thief and assassin, and I hardly ever get in trouble, because I simply have the patience to bide my time until my dark sister Leska can do her dastardly deeds when no worrysome witness is walking within watching distance.

    Remember, none of the things I suggested in that thread take effect until you rack up the bounties... and for most of them, quite a bit of bounties at that. (though I left out any ammounts, as that is the easiest way to regulate the unpleasentness of great justice)
    Aesthier wrote: »
    I also find a plethora of character names to be immersion breaking but I understand that some players simply enjoy making ridiculous names...
    Sadly so, yes.
    And I really wish there could be a "roleplay server" where you can only apply to transfer characters you have properly named in immersive ways, and written backstories for as well, with GMs checking every single one.
    But alas...
    Aesthier wrote: »
    So yeah if you want to add an opt in or opt out choice...
    You mean, like the opt-out choice PvE players have when they go into cyrodil?
    Or, like the opt out choice those aforementioned older players have from the whole justice system?
    Or how about an opt-out choice from mob attacks, for those people who just want to craft and gather?
    See how silly the argument really is?

    The only "opt out choice" that is needed is an "Disable Stealing" function right next to the "Disable Attacking Innocents" (which would be a really good thing for those who pay less attention then they ought to when clicking things). But if you want to do the crime, you better be prepared to do the time!
    UnseenCat wrote: »
    Just tweaking it so your bounty is only valid within one zone (or maybe group of adjacent zones for high bounties) would add some dimension and immersion for RPing a thief/assassin character.

    At the very least, bounties shouldn't cross alliance borders.
    True.
    But that -would- then also have to include one of two other changes... either make the bounty never degrade like I suggested, or remove all fast travel from the game and post justice guards to every slow travel harbour, cart ot stilt strider station.
    Because otherwise it would be way too easy to wayshrine away from any consequence...
    UnseenCat wrote: »
    For more fun, make bribe options (And bribe amounts) more frequent and variable in more lawless/corrupt areas like the Gold Coast and Hew's Bane.
    ...and THAT is one thing I would love to see!
    An dialoge option that allows you to escape arrest, and clear your bounty while keeping your ill-gotten gains... by paying a hefty sum of money.
    I had the same idea for y "merchant guild" suggestion I once posted: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/387560/additional-guild-ideas-mk-ii
    "True understanding can be found only in the Shadow between Light and Dark..."
    Leskandera - Sneaky Dunmer Bounty Huntress
    Kelasendar - Sorcerous Dunmer Goth Librarian
    Kes dre-Lana - Amazonian Orsimer Craftsmistress
  • Aesthier
    Aesthier
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    Aesthier wrote: »
    And again having the option added so that you can play in ^ that manner is fine however suggesting that it become the new standard is simply selfish and shortsighted by taking away a playstyle that already exists and some enjoy...
    You know, I have hear the -exact- same kind of argument before.
    Probably in response to the exact same suggestion you made. Thats just the nature of the forums you can't please everyone all the time.
    ...
    Back when the justice system first came online, and people were "Oh, noes, I used to be able to steal everything, and now I gotta watch my sticky fingers? Can't we opt out of the justice system, let people who like that play with guards and bounty, and let us have the lawless playstyle we enjoyed since launch"...
    And I can understand that some people want to steal or murder in a virtual world without consequence (or at least with neglectable ones like we currently get in ESO - which was not how they planned it actually from all I know, the PvP portion of the justice system was supposed to pick up that slack, but they later changed their mind about mixing PvP into PvE regions, and so it was shelved...)
    ^ Smart decision by ZoS on not mixing the PvP into the bounty system. I applaud them for that.

    Aesthier wrote: »
    I worked hard to become the thief/assassin I am I would find it more immersive if you could kill any witnesses thereby negating the bounty if done quickly and without more witnesses.
    ...yeah, riiiight. In a world with -magic- that lets the law question the darn frigging spirits of the murdered???
    Think again.
    (and yes, this is actually a thing in tamriel, as we learn during a certain summerset quest.)
    ROFL that was a special case, however and not applicable to what is currently happening. A section of a well-written questline should not be confused with coding guards on a general scale to make coding easier.

    I would suggest you work just as hard at stealing and murdering smarter instead of more. My main is a thief and assassin, and I hardly ever get in trouble, because I simply have the patience to bide my time until my dark sister Leska can do her dastardly deeds when no worrysome witness is walking within watching distance.[

    Remember, none of the things I suggested in that thread take effect until you rack up the bounties... and for most of them, quite a bit of bounties at that. (though I left out any ammounts, as that is the easiest way to regulate the unpleasentness of great justice)
    I hardly get bounties unless I feel like racking them up. There are achievements after all.

    Aesthier wrote: »
    I also find a plethora of character names to be immersion breaking but I understand that some players simply enjoy making ridiculous names...
    Sadly so, yes.
    And I really wish there could be a "roleplay server" where you can only apply to transfer characters you have properly named in immersive ways, and written backstories for as well, with GMs checking every single one.
    But alas...
    I would agree.

    Aesthier wrote: »
    So yeah if you want to add an opt in or opt out choice...
    You mean, like the opt-out choice PvE players have when they go into cyrodil?
    Or, like the opt out choice those aforementioned older players have from the whole justice system?
    Or how about an opt-out choice from mob attacks, for those people who just want to craft and gather?
    See how silly the argument really is?
    No sillier than any other suggestion like a toggle for werewolves or harder dungeon modes or even your own suggestion. That's the beauty of suggestions we are free to make them and others are free to disagree. :)

    The only "opt out choice" that is needed is an "Disable Stealing" function right next to the "Disable Attacking Innocents" (which would be a really good thing for those who pay less attention then they ought to when clicking things).
    Now that I can wholeheartedly support! Awesome idea in my opinion.

    But if you want to do the crime, you better be prepared to do the time!
    I am prepared and do when needed. Consequences are just fine where they are.


    UnseenCat wrote: »
    Just tweaking it so your bounty is only valid within one zone (or maybe group of adjacent zones for high bounties) would add some dimension and immersion for RPing a thief/assassin character.

    At the very least, bounties shouldn't cross alliance borders.

    For more fun, make bribe options (And bribe amounts) more frequent and variable in more lawless/corrupt areas like the Gold Coast and Hew's Bane.

    Fully agree Unseen!
    Edited by Aesthier on July 12, 2018 11:08PM
  • PlagueSD
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    I have no issues accidentally attacking innocents or stealing items...

    No Accidental Stealing means I can't accidentally steal anything.
    Troublemaker sets "Can't attack innocents" when not KOS. Will auto-toggle if you're KOS so you can defend yourself. Can also toggle via keybind for those times you want to go stabby stabby with Blade of Woe.
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