Necromancer Skill Line NOT Class

Juponen

I want it as a whole new class, no watering down the necromancy experience pls.

Btw I'm an optimist as I still haven't purchased the last available char slot because I wait for the necro to come available...

Ectheliontnacil

I'd rather have it be a seperate class. Cramming in one necromancer buff skill and backbarring the ulti is most likely what would happen with a necro skill line, or at least it happened with the psijic skills.

If they introduce necromancers, they should do it right. Awesome class with a unique feel to it.

jlmurra2

Juponen wrote: »

I want it as a whole new class, no watering down the necromancy experience pls.

Btw I'm an optimist as I still haven't purchased the last available char slot because I wait for the necro to come available...

I feel the opposite about that, due to the only gameplay difference between a class, and a skill line is one skill line vs three. Having to fill out more skills slots is the process of watering down, or deluding the most effective skills. I would rather have better more useful skills concentrated into one skill line of the most useful skills.

Other then one skill line or three everything else class related is superficial. The title then could be the reward for mastering the skill line.

Lord_Ninka

Necromantic skills like Blood Altar, Bone Shield or maybe Necrotic Orb, you mean? We can even throw in some poison damage and big bad spiders as a creepy if not completely necromantic bonus.

Unit117

I think it’s more worthy of being a class than any other class in this game. It should be a class

eso_nya

Necromancer Class or Skilline wont happen.

Spoiler containing lore from Traiters Vault on Aertaeum.

During the ne time quest of traitors vault, we learn the past of Mannimacro, Vanus Galerion and the psijic order.
In short, Mannimacro and Vanus were friends and students of the psijics. Mannimacro secretly studied necromancy, vanus found out and tried to get him imprisoned/executed for it.
However Leader of the psijics "Employer of Valsirenn" decided to "just" ban mannimacro from aerteaum and send him to tamriel mainland.
Vanus was furious, that such a monster was unleashed onto mankind and left the order, to follow him and founded the mages guild partly on purpose to fight mannimacro and his wormcult.

As in the storylines, the vestige joines the mages guild and the six companions (counting maiq), the chances of getting a necromancer class/skilltree r as likely (and lorebreaking) as getting an alternative mainstory where u get to play as deadra and join molag bals forces.

Technically, i honestly cant imagine a necro class thats anything but a reskin of current sorcerer or warden class. U now have "Undead Bees of Wrath".

Maura_Neysa

Lord_Ninka wrote: »

Necromantic skills like Blood Altar, Bone Shield or maybe Necrotic Orb, you mean? We can even throw in some poison damage and big bad spiders as a creepy if not completely necromantic bonus.

Think it should more be a split between Disease and Bleed, or something to bring back Melee mag builds

Cheetac19

INB4 but lore!!
As though they haven't already *** all over the lore.

I'm 100% always for new classes, so I'd prefer a class. Give the game some variety! A skill line would be just like every other dang skill line. People would use like.. a skill and maybe a passive. Maybe the ultimate if it worked like the Warden's bear and conjured a skeleton.

It would be nice to have an illusion class, I saw someone mention that.

But yes, a necromancer with a Raise Dead line, and maybe a Blood Magic/buff and Pestilence/debuff line.

MLGProPlayer

Asardes wrote: »

I keep seeing all those discussion pop up from time to time. Is there any concrete hint from the developers about a necromancer class or skill line? At least Warden was in the game files since Beta but was only fully developed as of Morrowind.

Nope. They even confirmed in Summerset in multiple quests that necromancy is unequivocally evil.

WaltherCarraway

Necromancer as an extended class skill line of Sorcerer would be cool. However I'd also like to see something like Pyromaniac for Dragonknight, Taijutsu for Nightblade, Telekinesis for Templars or Nature Ranger for Warden...

Juponen

Nope. They even confirmed in Summerset in multiple quests that necromancy is unequivocally evil.

Yep. On the other hand slaying random townsfolk isn't because the assassins are just misunderstood nice chaps and thieving then, it's just socialism

Lum1on

Mojmir wrote: »

No,they'd punish us again with another psijic style grindy questline.just add the class.

"... psijic style grindy questline ..."?

Do tell me, how in the world you think getting Psijic skills is even near to grinding? Okay, you can get Fighter's guild by just simply leveling your character in a boring way in Alik'r dolmens or Skyreach. But Mage's guild and especially Undaunted? Mage's guild is exactly the same than Psijic (sort of) but Undaunted is really grindy skill line.

To get Psijic all you need is run from a place to another and that's about it. It only takes like 2-3 hours and it's not even close to a "grindy questline".

Maura_Neysa

Lum1on wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

No,they'd punish us again with another psijic style grindy questline.just add the class.

"... psijic style grindy questline ..."?

Do tell me, how in the world you think getting Psijic skills is even near to grinding? Okay, you can get Fighter's guild by just simply leveling your character in a boring way in Alik'r dolmens or Skyreach. But Mage's guild and especially Undaunted? Mage's guild is exactly the same than Psijic (sort of) but Undaunted is really grindy skill line.

To get Psijic all you need is run from a place to another and that's about it. It only takes like 2-3 hours and it's not even close to a "grindy questline".

Only 2-3 hours on a fully leveled charater sure. On someone with no Wayshirnes, and crap mount speed, its a hell of a lot longer. However I agree, Psjic is the easiest of any of the guilds to level, followed be Mage (with the internet), Fighters, Undaunted (with a good groups) DB, Thieves, Ledgermen.
Sadly the only reason to level Psjic is for L9 or maybe if you want the spamable.

Edit: Yeah Time Stop.... for now.

MLGProPlayer

One argument against a necromancer skill line is that it forces people to become necroamancers to be BiS, or even just complete the story, which can be immersion-breaking. Joining the Psijic Order was fine because the Psijics use very "neutral magic" (in terms of the lore). Their skills can be used by both good and evil characters (see an evil mer NPC casting Psijic skills in the Summerset story) without any issues. Now imagine a templar character decked out in gold and white armour casting plague AOEs and summoning rotting zombie minions because those are the new BiS skills. It would look dumb and mess with people's visual styles.

Sergykid

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

One argument against a necromancer skill line is that it forces people to become necroamancers to be BiS, or even just complete the story, which can be immersion-breaking. Joining the Psijic Order was fine because the Psijics use very "neutral magic" (in terms of the lore). Their skills can be used by both good and evil characters (see an evil mer NPC casting Psijic skills in the Summerset story) without any issues. Now imagine a templar character decked out in gold and white armour casting plague AOEs and summoning rotting zombie minions because those are the new BiS skills. It would look dumb and mess with people's visual styles.

who cares anymore, it's Elder Fashion Online now, just like you can be a vampire magplar healer in psijic order with dark broterhood and thieves guild skill lines maxed out.

TheShadowScout

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Nope. They even confirmed in Summerset in multiple quests that necromancy is unequivocally evil.

Tell that to Vastarie...
...or to any of your characters after creating a flesh atronarch to rescue Abner Tharn. Remember that one?
Yes, -most- necromancers are very, very much on the evil side.
And playing through the story as one -would- be a little... iffy. Another point against classes.

It would be doable tho, as post-mainstory option... after all, as a wise man once said, if you fight monsters you might become a monster yourself, as you stare into the abyss, it looks back into you and all that. Stands to reason that some of our characters might decide to fight fire with fire and learn a bit of necromancy themselves...

And as I keep mentioning, it -would- make a good DLC storyline. "Take this magical mask and infiltrate the remains of the worm cult, stop their new dastardly plan..." and all that. With an option to just pose as witless minion in your infiltration, or go elbow deep into necromancy...

As for evil... yes, necromancy still is I suppose. So is murder. Dark Brotherhood, anyone?

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

Necromancer as an extended class skill line of Sorcerer would be cool. However I'd also like to see something like Pyromaniac for Dragonknight, Taijutsu for Nightblade, Telekinesis for Templars or Nature Ranger for Warden...

I know, right? -> https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/369966/class-morph-idea-mk-ii
And as I outlined there, any such "specializations" should come with -choices-; not merely one added skill line, but several you can choose from, to diversify your character. I made up three for my concept, but there is no reason to stop there, could be a few more if someone has another good idea...

Chrysa1is

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

Taijutsu for Nightblade

Is your character a girl and do you love anime?

TheShadowScout

Chrysa1is wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

Taijutsu for Nightblade

Is your character a girl and do you love anime?

Did someone say anime?

Soella

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

One argument against a necromancer skill line is that it forces people to become necroamancers to be BiS, or even just complete the story, which can be immersion-breaking.

BiS and immersion are not compatible, IMHO. Necromancer class will contradict the immersion on many-many quests, so it is much worse from this point of view.

Tyrobag

No, it 100% needs to be a new class. People have been asking for a Necromancer class since before we even know that they would add new classes. I don't want a half @** skill line like Psijic, I want a new class that will actually let me play back through the whole game without getting board after 2 alliances. I want to see a new playstyle, instead of just slightly changing one of the few we've been using since launch.

Anything less than a full class would be a massive waste of time and ZoS' resources since it wouldn't actually get people playing again. A proper Necromancer class would not only get current players to spend more money & be in game longer, it can be used in an add campaign to draw in new players.

If your argument is "well warden didn't do that well", that's because not many people wanted it in the first place, and it was terrible and weak from the start. With Necromancer, they should have learned their lesson from warden and make it a viable class at the start.

TheShadowScout

Tyrobag wrote: »

...I want a new class that will actually let me play back through the whole game without getting board after 2 alliances...

See, the problem is, that's an easy thought to follow if you have only played through the game a couple times. but at some point it just gets a drag, playing a new class through all that content you already played through a dozend times and more yet again...

Trust me, I know. I did it. I defended repeated playthroughs back when I had been playing half a dozend characters... the new playstyle did lessen the boredom of going through all the all too well remembered questings, thinking "Oh, yea, I remember this one, my nightblade had troubles, let's see how my templar does it..." but that only lasts so long... eventually you begin to realize how similar some different combinations are in effect.

So, even the "next new playstyle" thing doesn't really help, because it won't be new, the -style- will just be a different shade of flavor you already experienced ion some way with one of your other alts... just with new abilities.

...and thus it would make -more- sense to just hand out the new abilities, and let people assemble their own playstyle as they choose - give them -more options- and let them play as they want... that sort of IS something ZOS has always been big on, right?
That way -everyone- will enjoy something new to play for in their game, no matter if they have three characters, or fifteen. And many people will redo their old characters to a new incarnation, needing an entirely new wardrobe for them, and thus spend on costumes and mounts and so on... feeding crowns into the machine...

So, anything less then new skill lines for -everyone- would be a massive waste of time and ZOS resources... when you spend your resources on something only a minority will truly enjoy, and more people would groan about, it is not a good business model.

The situation would be different if they had a class change token... but they don't, so it isn't. And that one IS the one thing they are on record stating they do not intend to do, so unless they change their minds about that, well... I stand by my opinion that skill lines for everyone would be a better choice!

Facefister

Do you guys really want to stuff "Necromancer" into a barebone skillline with 1 Ultimate, 4 Skills and 5 passives?

This whole dilemma would be solved with a class-change token which has a certain cooldown to avoid class-hopping.

WaltherCarraway

Chrysa1is wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

Taijutsu for Nightblade

Is your character a girl and do you love anime?

Taijutsu is a kind of martial art. Check that out.

Tyrobag

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Tyrobag wrote: »

...I want a new class that will actually let me play back through the whole game without getting board after 2 alliances...

See, the problem is, that's an easy thought to follow if you have only played through the game a couple times. but at some point it just gets a drag, playing a new class through all that content you already played through a dozend times and more yet again...

Trust me, I know. I did it. I defended repeated playthroughs back when I had been playing half a dozend characters... the new playstyle did lessen the boredom of going through all the all too well remembered questings, thinking "Oh, yea, I remember this one, my nightblade had troubles, let's see how my templar does it..." but that only lasts so long... eventually you begin to realize how similar some different combinations are in effect.

So, even the "next new playstyle" thing doesn't really help, because it won't be new, the -style- will just be a different shade of flavor you already experienced ion some way with one of your other alts... just with new abilities.

...and thus it would make -more- sense to just hand out the new abilities, and let people assemble their own playstyle as they choose - give them -more options- and let them play as they want... that sort of IS something ZOS has always been big on, right?
That way -everyone- will enjoy something new to play for in their game, no matter if they have three characters, or fifteen. And many people will redo their old characters to a new incarnation, needing an entirely new wardrobe for them, and thus spend on costumes and mounts and so on... feeding crowns into the machine...

So, anything less then new skill lines for -everyone- would be a massive waste of time and ZOS resources... when you spend your resources on something only a minority will truly enjoy, and more people would groan about, it is not a good business model.

The situation would be different if they had a class change token... but they don't, so it isn't. And that one IS the one thing they are on record stating they do not intend to do, so unless they change their minds about that, well... I stand by my opinion that skill lines for everyone would be a better choice!

I've played through plenty of times, although its been a while since I did a full playthrough of all alliances and DLCs. I have the desire to do a full playthrough now, but I'm waiting for Necromancer because I know that if I do a class that I've already done 3 times I'll get board. Having a full set of new abilities/passives and an undeveloped playstyle will let me truly enjoy the playthrough as much as I did on my 2nd, 3rd, and 4th playthroughs when Templar, DK, and NB were new to me.

Just adding it as a skill line means that all Im going to get to do is add it to my existing characters, which means no new playthrough at all, which means that instead of a few months of entertainment I get a couple of weeks while I decide if I can use any of the abilities.
Being a skill line would also push it the way of Psijic, where there are only a couple of abilities that are even useful, and those aren't even bis, so you may not be able to get away with using it. I want to be able to play a Necromancer, not a NB or a Sorc with one necromantic spell.

As for profit, I think that the fact that releasing a new class makes many people buy up to 4 new character slots, in addition to holding evryone's attention for more than a week (which means more eso plus, and more crown store purchases) thoroughly outclasses the money they make by adding a skill line that comes with dlcs (if you want it in the base game that's 0 profit, and it would be clear p2w if they put individual skill lines exclusively in the crown store).

Unit117

It needs to be a full class. I want to do another play through of something different and be able to take on a full theme. Not one skill line that does nothing for me.

TheShadowScout

Unit117 wrote: »

It needs to be a full class. I want to do another play through of something different and be able to take on a full theme. Not one skill line that does nothing for me.

You do want that.
I do not. Not after doing it fifteen times already...

And therein lies the problem.
Yes, there are some who would love and adore playing a "necromancer". There are also just as many who would scoff at the very thought and cry lore-foul if it happened. And in between are those who might vaguely enjoy it... if it wasn't vexing them. And while the new ones might not care, the older hands who have been in ESO for quite a while might feel vexed, for reasons I outlined before.

I know, I know, you and others are saying "gimme what I want, and fu... uhm... forget about what everyone else might prefer", but that is not exactly the best business model for ZOS to follow - they want the -maximum- possible people to buy their DLCs and other stuff for their charactersa after all, yes?

Facefister

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Unit117 wrote: »

It needs to be a full class. I want to do another play through of something different and be able to take on a full theme. Not one skill line that does nothing for me.

You do want that.
I do not. Not after doing it fifteen times already...

And therein lies the problem.
Yes, there are some who would love and adore playing a "necromancer". There are also just as many who would scoff at the very thought and cry lore-foul if it happened. And in between are those who might vaguely enjoy it... if it wasn't vexing them. And while the new ones might not care, the older hands who have been in ESO for quite a while might feel vexed, for reasons I outlined before.

I know, I know, you and others are saying "gimme what I want, and fu... uhm... forget about what everyone else might prefer", but that is not exactly the best business model for ZOS to follow - they want the -maximum- possible people to buy their DLCs and other stuff for their charactersa after all, yes?

I am pretty sure that you, with 15 maxed out characters, are a minority. Besides, noone is going pay 30 bucks for a skillline, not after Summerset.

Unit117

Facefister wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Unit117 wrote: »

It needs to be a full class. I want to do another play through of something different and be able to take on a full theme. Not one skill line that does nothing for me.

You do want that.
I do not. Not after doing it fifteen times already...

And therein lies the problem.
Yes, there are some who would love and adore playing a "necromancer". There are also just as many who would scoff at the very thought and cry lore-foul if it happened. And in between are those who might vaguely enjoy it... if it wasn't vexing them. And while the new ones might not care, the older hands who have been in ESO for quite a while might feel vexed, for reasons I outlined before.

I know, I know, you and others are saying "gimme what I want, and fu... uhm... forget about what everyone else might prefer", but that is not exactly the best business model for ZOS to follow - they want the -maximum- possible people to buy their DLCs and other stuff for their charactersa after all, yes?

I am pretty sure that you, with 15 maxed out characters, are a minority. Besides, noone is going pay 30 bucks for a skillline, not after Summerset.

This. What would bring more people back and keep more people playing? A whole new class or one skill line?

Also saying forget about everyone else is the same thing asking for just a skilline or a class. It’s something the community has begged for sense release. It’s hardly anyone’s fault if you someone has done 15 run throughs on 15 characters too. Plus it too could get to 50 with it in less than a week with it if you wanted to.

Jack_Of_Shades

red_emu wrote: »

A templar necromancer? Conflict of interest I think...

You have clearly never seen a fallen paladin in a D&D game.

TheShadowScout

Facefister wrote: »

I am pretty sure that you, with 15 maxed out characters, are a minority...

Possibly. Considering the threads I have seen in the years here, almost certainly - most would have reached the "another playthrough is just too boring" point looong beforre hitting character #15...

Thus the question is - should ZOS cater only to those who are new, still keen on repeated playthroughs and want a new class, or should they make something that -both- the new players and the older hands can have fun with?

Facefister wrote: »

Besides, noone is going pay 30 bucks for a skillline, not after Summerset.

How were their sales for thieves guild and dark brotherhood again?

Besides, I would. Even after summerset, which I enjoyed quite a bit.

So, should they cater to those like me who are willing to pay for it, or those who are of the opinion that "noone is going to pay that..." and thus might feel disinclined to spend their money in the crown store?

Unit117 wrote: »

What would bring more people back and keep more people playing? A whole new class or one skill line?

A new skill line... or better yet, a bunch of new skill lines for prople to pick and choose from to "specialize" their characters!
(But of course I would say that, would I not? )

Jack_Of_Shades wrote: »

red_emu wrote: »

A templar necromancer? Conflict of interest I think...

You have clearly never seen a fallen paladin in a D&D game.

Fun fact - The Elder Scrolls is not Dungeons & Dragons!

And a necromancer templar would indeed be a conflict of interest in this setting, since templars in TES are very much aedric-powered, and none of the aedra like plqaying with necromancy or the undead...
...which is why I keep suggesting necromancer specializations for sorcerors; since those are already having one foot into conjuration, and we do know from the often mentioned lore that necromancy is a subset of conjuration...
No matter how you look at it, that does make the most sense.
Of course, then you would need a lot more other specializations for other classes too, so it would be more work then just slapping together a class... where sorcerors might specialize in necromancy, templars might specialize in witch hunting, nightblades in monk-ish martial arts, wardens in damage-dealing cryomancy and dragonknights in even more fire magic... and since only one specialization per class would be boring, you would need to add more choices... as the saying goes, one choice is no choice, two choices are a dilemma, only at three choices freedom starts, and giving players some degree of freedom in a game makes it all the more enjoyable. Which brings us back to my often mentioned take on specializations...