You're building it wrong? Is there any point with the Health attribute?

Bam_Bam

Bored witless waiting for maintenance to end. So my mind is drifting.

People always seem to be searching for or playing the next or latest meta. Are there any classes or builds that would be completely pointless and (LOL) has anyone ever tried or accidentally made such a character? I have - my Nord Stamplar with his attributes divided between all 3. Eventually, I remade him as an Orc Stamplar, all stamina and he's now my main crafter.

But has anyone ever made Healthblade, for example? Actually. while I'm thinking - why does health seem to be completely neglected? OK, I mean I know some tanks only use health. But most builds I see are either magicka or stamina only.

OK someone else continue please because I've forgotten what my point was lol.

Consum98

Health is normally completely neglected because it doesn't add to your base damage, and is easy to acquire almost freely from other sources, such as from tri-stat glyphs. That being said some abilities benefit from high health pools in extreme situations, such as a lot of the warden skills, or blazing shield.

In terms of tanks, even they need certain sizes of resource pools, so even then its uncommon or foolish to stack fully into health.

code65536

You stack stamina when you're a stamina DD.

You stack magicka when you're a magicka DD or a healer.

You stack health when you're a tank.

My trials tank has all 64 points in health. It's the only way I can reach a safe level of health for vAS HM while wearing a decidedly non-healthy setup like Torug/Alkosh. Not that much point in putting points into stamina, as all of the newer trials don't require permablocking and there are ample opportunities to regain stamina via heavy attacks.

ResTandRespeC

There are a few specific skills that scale with max health, like stam or magic skills scale with their respective max stat. It just so happens that most of those skills basically only contribute to tanking. There are also skills like the mages guild skill (balance morph?) that works best with high health as they replace some of your health with other resources. I imagine the reason Zeni doesnt design max health scaling damage skills os that it would be pretty crazy to be able to deal maximum damage while maintaining crazy high health . At least that's the way it would have to work under the current system with skills scaling off max resource pools.

jaws343

I use the health attribute only when my character is severely lacking it for PVP. For example, my bow/bow nightblade is sitting at 15K health outside of Cyrodil and using a handful of points in health to boost that up a bit will outweigh the loss to stamina I will take.

However, many builds can get by without needing to do that and still running full magicka or stamina glyphs due to passives or gear sets being used.

jypcy

Yeah I can’t speak much from a pvp perspective, but for pve, healers and dps really get the best performance from the other stats, stamina or Magicka, and it’s possible to survive without putting extra points into health. So while you could build up your health more and not have to worry about mechanics as much because you can survive more damage, this will hurt your potential performance because your skills aren’t dealing as much damage/healing as much as they could. The ideal is to know mechanics well enough to be able to survive them with the lowest health manageable so that you can use those resources that could’ve gone to health to boost your stam or Magicka instead, and consequently boost your damage/healing output. There are some set procs and skills that deal damage or heal others based on max health, but the output from these is nowhere near the output from stamina or Magicka based skills, so health isn’t really a viable resource to output damage or healing. The tank role isn’t really concerned with outputting either of those, so can be more survivable by stacking resources into health instead.

Also, you might encounter situations that do require a little bit of extra health. For these, I just carry an extra piece of armor that’s the same that I’m wearing but with a health enchantment instead. That way I can put all of my attribute points into stamina or Magicka, but if I ever do need more health, it’s just changing gear instead of having to port to a shrine and pay gold to respec.

nevik073

Health tanks are awesome. The Green Dragon Blood self heal scales off of missing health.... the more missing health, the bigger the heal. I believe Igneous Sheild also scales off of total health.

josiahva

Bam_Bam wrote: »

Bored witless waiting for maintenance to end. So my mind is drifting.

People always seem to be searching for or playing the next or latest meta. Are there any classes or builds that would be completely pointless and (LOL) has anyone ever tried or accidentally made such a character? I have - my Nord Stamplar with his attributes divided between all 3. Eventually, I remade him as an Orc Stamplar, all stamina and he's now my main crafter.

But has anyone ever made Healthblade, for example? Actually. while I'm thinking - why does health seem to be completely neglected? OK, I mean I know some tanks only use health. But most builds I see are either magicka or stamina only.

OK someone else continue please because I've forgotten what my point was lol.

Even on tanks you NEVER put points into health, only stamina and magicka. I am able to hit 50k health easily with just gear and enchants...why in the world would I ever use an attribute point for that nearly worthless stat? The advantage of never putting points in health is that with a simple gear and skill change I go from tank to wannabe-DPS(useful for fights where a tank is worthless) you cant do this if you have points in health...or not as effectively. The ONLY time a health build is useful is if you focus on skills that scale off of health...and those are few and far between...what? Igneous Shield, Bone Shield, and that Ice warden skill that does damage? Not enough to even consider a health based build...the days of blazing shield health templar are long gone...

pelle412

josiahva wrote: »

Bam_Bam wrote: »

Bored witless waiting for maintenance to end. So my mind is drifting.

People always seem to be searching for or playing the next or latest meta. Are there any classes or builds that would be completely pointless and (LOL) has anyone ever tried or accidentally made such a character? I have - my Nord Stamplar with his attributes divided between all 3. Eventually, I remade him as an Orc Stamplar, all stamina and he's now my main crafter.

But has anyone ever made Healthblade, for example? Actually. while I'm thinking - why does health seem to be completely neglected? OK, I mean I know some tanks only use health. But most builds I see are either magicka or stamina only.

OK someone else continue please because I've forgotten what my point was lol.

Even on tanks you NEVER put points into health, only stamina and magicka. I am able to hit 50k health easily with just gear and enchants...why in the world would I ever use an attribute point for that nearly worthless stat? The advantage of never putting points in health is that with a simple gear and skill change I go from tank to wannabe-DPS(useful for fights where a tank is worthless) you cant do this if you have points in health...or not as effectively. The ONLY time a health build is useful is if you focus on skills that scale off of health...and those are few and far between...what? Igneous Shield, Bone Shield, and that Ice warden skill that does damage? Not enough to even consider a health based build...the days of blazing shield health templar are long gone...

Like code said above, to push the limits of tanking you sometimes need to wear buff sets that doesn't give you much health, like Torugs+Alkosh and to not have any points into health, you run the risk of nearly dying to certain hits.

Dagoth_Rac

Because the content in this game revolves around one thing and one thing only: maximum DPS. Ideally, your DPS need to DPS. Ideally, your Healers need to do as little actual healing as possible and as much buffing DPS as possible. Ideally, your Tanks need to do as little actual tanking as possible and as much buffing DPS as possible. Most of the high end PvE content cannot be completed without extremely high DPS. Even if it can be completed without extremely high DPS, high DPS lets you skip mechanics or face one-shot mechanics far fewer times over course of a fight. If you mess up a mechanic, you are going to get hit with some insane 100,000 damage attack. Running 20k or 25k health will not help you there. But running 20k or 25k health will prevent you from maximizing your DPS and making the content either impossible or much harder than it would be otherwise.

People are not putting 0 points into Health because it is some kind of fad. People are putting 0 points into Health because the game design all but requires it.

code65536

josiahva wrote: »

Even on tanks you NEVER put points into health, only stamina and magicka. I am able to hit 50k health easily with just gear and enchants...why in the world would I ever use an attribute point for that nearly worthless stat? The advantage of never putting points in health is that with a simple gear and skill change I go from tank to wannabe-DPS(useful for fights where a tank is worthless) you cant do this if you have points in health...or not as effectively.

@josiahva One would assume from that statement that "you NEVER" have tanked a vet trial.

When I started tanking, it was for dungeons, and on a DPS character who would, with a swap of gear, be a tank. Doesn't matter what you do when you PUG a dungeon, as long as you taunt and don't die.

That kind of tank would be wholly inadequate in a vet trial. First, because you are limited in your gear selection. Your group expects the tank to wear certain sets that buff the group or debuff the enemy. You don't get much health if you're expected to wear Torug+Alkosh (Ebon+Alkosh is slightly better but still not that much health).

Second, because you do need a lot of health in many vet trials. If you're a tank in vAS HM, you want around 40K if you are an experienced tank running with an experienced group. If you or your group is inexperienced, you'd want even more. The only way to get 40K while still wearing the kinds of non-selfish sets expected of a good tank is to have all 64 points in health.

Third, for tanks with good resource management, large magicka and stamina pools are useless. If you use more resources than you get back, then a larger pool merely delays the inevitable moment when you run dry. And if you have good resource management and get back more resources than you use, then the size of the resource pool is largely irrelevant. Health is far more useful, as it means your shields and self-heals are more effective.

D0PAMINE

Trial builds or people with very good control of their chars will usually stack in one resource. Those of us with solo builds tend to put at least 10-20 in health to get to like 17-18k un buffed. PVP is also spec'd based on that individual players needs, so it depends.

D0PAMINE

@code65536 Im terrible with resource management on a tank. I still need practice

LeagueTroll

josiahva wrote: »

Bam_Bam wrote: »

Bored witless waiting for maintenance to end. So my mind is drifting.

People always seem to be searching for or playing the next or latest meta. Are there any classes or builds that would be completely pointless and (LOL) has anyone ever tried or accidentally made such a character? I have - my Nord Stamplar with his attributes divided between all 3. Eventually, I remade him as an Orc Stamplar, all stamina and he's now my main crafter.

But has anyone ever made Healthblade, for example? Actually. while I'm thinking - why does health seem to be completely neglected? OK, I mean I know some tanks only use health. But most builds I see are either magicka or stamina only.

OK someone else continue please because I've forgotten what my point was lol.

Even on tanks you NEVER put points into health, only stamina and magicka. I am able to hit 50k health easily with just gear and enchants...why in the world would I ever use an attribute point for that nearly worthless stat? The advantage of never putting points in health is that with a simple gear and skill change I go from tank to wannabe-DPS(useful for fights where a tank is worthless) you cant do this if you have points in health...or not as effectively. The ONLY time a health build is useful is if you focus on skills that scale off of health...and those are few and far between...what? Igneous Shield, Bone Shield, and that Ice warden skill that does damage? Not enough to even consider a health based build...the days of blazing shield health templar are long gone...

Why would a dk tank not go full health? Dragon blood and igneous shield scale to health. Why would a nb or sorc tank not go health? New clock and pet heal scale to health too.

DuskMarine

Bam_Bam wrote: »

Bored witless waiting for maintenance to end. So my mind is drifting.

People always seem to be searching for or playing the next or latest meta. Are there any classes or builds that would be completely pointless and (LOL) has anyone ever tried or accidentally made such a character? I have - my Nord Stamplar with his attributes divided between all 3. Eventually, I remade him as an Orc Stamplar, all stamina and he's now my main crafter.

But has anyone ever made Healthblade, for example? Actually. while I'm thinking - why does health seem to be completely neglected? OK, I mean I know some tanks only use health. But most builds I see are either magicka or stamina only.

OK someone else continue please because I've forgotten what my point was lol.

the health attribute is litterally useless it helps nothing on any build dps sweet spot is 16k easily youll live any vet hardmode trial. tanks health sweet spot 35k youll hit that with just armor and passives dump enchants and attributes into stamina attribute and tri glyph enchants. dps magicka or stamina respectively there is no reason to have anything in the health attribute.

josiahva

code65536 wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Even on tanks you NEVER put points into health, only stamina and magicka. I am able to hit 50k health easily with just gear and enchants...why in the world would I ever use an attribute point for that nearly worthless stat? The advantage of never putting points in health is that with a simple gear and skill change I go from tank to wannabe-DPS(useful for fights where a tank is worthless) you cant do this if you have points in health...or not as effectively.

@josiahva One would assume from that statement that "you NEVER" have tanked a vet trial.

When I started tanking, it was for dungeons, and on a DPS character who would, with a swap of gear, be a tank. Doesn't matter what you do when you PUG a dungeon, as long as you taunt and don't die.

That kind of tank would be wholly inadequate in a vet trial. First, because you are limited in your gear selection. Your group expects the tank to wear certain sets that buff the group or debuff the enemy. You don't get much health if you're expected to wear Torug+Alkosh (Ebon+Alkosh is slightly better but still not that much health).

Second, because you do need a lot of health in many vet trials. If you're a tank in vAS HM, you want around 40K if you are an experienced tank running with an experienced group. If you or your group is inexperienced, you'd want even more. The only way to get 40K while still wearing the kinds of non-selfish sets expected of a good tank is to have all 64 points in health.

Third, for tanks with good resource management, large magicka and stamina pools are useless. If you use more resources than you get back, then a larger pool merely delays the inevitable moment when you run dry. And if you have good resource management and get back more resources than you use, then the size of the resource pool is largely irrelevant. Health is far more useful, as it means your shields and self-heals are more effective.

I am very much aware of this. With 0 points in health, using purple gear I end up with 50.5k Health, 22k Stam, and 12k Magicka(focusing on stamina and magicka regen over large pools). Now, that 50.5K health is using Plague Doctor+Imperium...replace that with Alkosh+Torug's and you are at 40936 health using the same setup. It is true I play an Imperial and mostly health enchants, so that helps a bit...but still...if I can hit 40k health without ever putting a point in health stat...why would I? I also use the health Mundus though. My point is you are wrong...you dont need a single point in health to hit 40k. If you are still short of 40k you could always use Thorvukun for an extra 1206 health(though it might not be the best choice...its still a tempting choice with the minor maim(and less useful minor defile). Now going into a trial I change up the enchants for a bit more stam and a bit less health so I usually end up about 39k health, 24k stam, and 11k Magicka if using Alkosh and Torug's. (or 38k health if Alkosh+Powerful Asssault). The only time you need to put points in health is if you need more than 40k while wearing those sets...or more than 50k wearing plague doctor.

jypcy

josiahva wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Even on tanks you NEVER put points into health, only stamina and magicka. I am able to hit 50k health easily with just gear and enchants...why in the world would I ever use an attribute point for that nearly worthless stat? The advantage of never putting points in health is that with a simple gear and skill change I go from tank to wannabe-DPS(useful for fights where a tank is worthless) you cant do this if you have points in health...or not as effectively.

@josiahva One would assume from that statement that "you NEVER" have tanked a vet trial.

When I started tanking, it was for dungeons, and on a DPS character who would, with a swap of gear, be a tank. Doesn't matter what you do when you PUG a dungeon, as long as you taunt and don't die.

That kind of tank would be wholly inadequate in a vet trial. First, because you are limited in your gear selection. Your group expects the tank to wear certain sets that buff the group or debuff the enemy. You don't get much health if you're expected to wear Torug+Alkosh (Ebon+Alkosh is slightly better but still not that much health).

Second, because you do need a lot of health in many vet trials. If you're a tank in vAS HM, you want around 40K if you are an experienced tank running with an experienced group. If you or your group is inexperienced, you'd want even more. The only way to get 40K while still wearing the kinds of non-selfish sets expected of a good tank is to have all 64 points in health.

Third, for tanks with good resource management, large magicka and stamina pools are useless. If you use more resources than you get back, then a larger pool merely delays the inevitable moment when you run dry. And if you have good resource management and get back more resources than you use, then the size of the resource pool is largely irrelevant. Health is far more useful, as it means your shields and self-heals are more effective.

I am very much aware of this. With 0 points in health, using purple gear I end up with 50.5k Health, 22k Stam, and 12k Magicka(focusing on stamina and magicka regen over large pools). Now, that 50.5K health is using Plague Doctor+Imperium...replace that with Alkosh+Torug's and you are at 40936 health using the same setup. It is true I play an Imperial and mostly health enchants, so that helps a bit...but still...if I can hit 40k health without ever putting a point in health stat...why would I? I also use the health Mundus though. My point is you are wrong...you dont need a single point in health to hit 40k. If you are still short of 40k you could always use Thorvukun for an extra 1206 health(though it might not be the best choice...its still a tempting choice with the minor maim(and less useful minor defile). Now going into a trial I change up the enchants for a bit more stam and a bit less health so I usually end up about 39k health, 24k stam, and 11k Magicka if using Alkosh and Torug's. (or 38k health if Alkosh+Powerful Asssault). The only time you need to put points in health is if you need more than 40k while wearing those sets...or more than 50k wearing plague doctor.

I don’t doubt that you can make your build work, but you do get more resources spending attribute points in health and other glyphs and food to accommodate. Values are from gold glyphs applied to gold, infused large pieces (if you include shield as well). Feel free to check the math as I did it mostly in my head haha

Health Glyphs: 3432 (1144)
Mag/Stam Attributes: 7104
Total: 10,536 (11,680)

Prismatic Glyphs: 4836 (1612)
Health Attribute: 7808
Total: 12,644 (14,256)

Of course it doesn’t boil down to strictly which is the bigger number in practice, but certainly there’s value in using health attribute points. Especially since sets like plague doctor really aren’t all that useful for the vast majority of end game content. And they’re definitely not necessary for any of it.

huschdeguddzje

I don't even put points into health on mys tanks, you can easily hit 38k with only enchants and passives

Violynne

Bam_Bam wrote: »

But has anyone ever made Healthblade, for example?

Once. Got killed because I couldn't take the boss down fast enough. When it came to health vs. health... 300k > 30k.

I lost.

Actually. while I'm thinking - why does health seem to be completely neglected?

I have a hybrid who splits mag and stamina 50/50.

I hit as hard as a 5 year old girl.

I can't even finish a delve boss without using Ultimates.

This is why health is neglected.

OK someone else continue please because I've forgotten what my point was lol.

I found your point, and it sold for a nice 10k gold.

I can craft you another one, if you'd like. I'll get it up to Epic as I found it, but if you want it Legendary (as all points should be), I'll need the mats.

inthecoconut

I guess it is useful for tanks? Although I personally don't use it on mine. I still just put into stam or mag, even when tanking, because I feel that extra bit of damage is superior to having more health. The faster we kill things, the less damage I'll take, the shorter the fight also means less resource management for my team. It seems to work fine so I've never really felt a need to dump into health.

josiahva

jypcy wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Even on tanks you NEVER put points into health, only stamina and magicka. I am able to hit 50k health easily with just gear and enchants...why in the world would I ever use an attribute point for that nearly worthless stat? The advantage of never putting points in health is that with a simple gear and skill change I go from tank to wannabe-DPS(useful for fights where a tank is worthless) you cant do this if you have points in health...or not as effectively.

@josiahva One would assume from that statement that "you NEVER" have tanked a vet trial.

When I started tanking, it was for dungeons, and on a DPS character who would, with a swap of gear, be a tank. Doesn't matter what you do when you PUG a dungeon, as long as you taunt and don't die.

That kind of tank would be wholly inadequate in a vet trial. First, because you are limited in your gear selection. Your group expects the tank to wear certain sets that buff the group or debuff the enemy. You don't get much health if you're expected to wear Torug+Alkosh (Ebon+Alkosh is slightly better but still not that much health).

Second, because you do need a lot of health in many vet trials. If you're a tank in vAS HM, you want around 40K if you are an experienced tank running with an experienced group. If you or your group is inexperienced, you'd want even more. The only way to get 40K while still wearing the kinds of non-selfish sets expected of a good tank is to have all 64 points in health.

Third, for tanks with good resource management, large magicka and stamina pools are useless. If you use more resources than you get back, then a larger pool merely delays the inevitable moment when you run dry. And if you have good resource management and get back more resources than you use, then the size of the resource pool is largely irrelevant. Health is far more useful, as it means your shields and self-heals are more effective.

I am very much aware of this. With 0 points in health, using purple gear I end up with 50.5k Health, 22k Stam, and 12k Magicka(focusing on stamina and magicka regen over large pools). Now, that 50.5K health is using Plague Doctor+Imperium...replace that with Alkosh+Torug's and you are at 40936 health using the same setup. It is true I play an Imperial and mostly health enchants, so that helps a bit...but still...if I can hit 40k health without ever putting a point in health stat...why would I? I also use the health Mundus though. My point is you are wrong...you dont need a single point in health to hit 40k. If you are still short of 40k you could always use Thorvukun for an extra 1206 health(though it might not be the best choice...its still a tempting choice with the minor maim(and less useful minor defile). Now going into a trial I change up the enchants for a bit more stam and a bit less health so I usually end up about 39k health, 24k stam, and 11k Magicka if using Alkosh and Torug's. (or 38k health if Alkosh+Powerful Asssault). The only time you need to put points in health is if you need more than 40k while wearing those sets...or more than 50k wearing plague doctor.

I don’t doubt that you can make your build work, but you do get more resources spending attribute points in health and other glyphs and food to accommodate. Values are from gold glyphs applied to gold, infused large pieces (if you include shield as well). Feel free to check the math as I did it mostly in my head haha

Health Glyphs: 3432 (1144)
Mag/Stam Attributes: 7104
Total: 10,536 (11,680)

Prismatic Glyphs: 4836 (1612)
Health Attribute: 7808
Total: 12,644 (14,256)

Of course it doesn’t boil down to strictly which is the bigger number in practice, but certainly there’s value in using health attribute points. Especially since sets like plague doctor really aren’t all that useful for the vast majority of end game content. And they’re definitely not necessary for any of it.

I suppose it depends on what you mean by end game content. I don't use plague doctor to run vet trials...but I do use it for vet DLC dungeons, not because I need 50k health(though that is useful for surviving Dranos in a pug in vCoS when your group members don't interrupt ads pinning you) but because the larger my health pool, the larger my shields...it makes igneous shield and bone shield much more effective for the group...top it off with imperium and barrier and you can hit 50k shield stacking for the entire group(plus more for you with psijiic passive and ice staff taunt shield) It has a dramatic effect of group survivability if you pug a lot of vet DLC dungeons...essentially anyone who stays relatively close to you as the tank will be hard to kill, especially if the DPS bother to hit the spinal surge synergy.

Jameliel

Lazy design is lazy.

jypcy

@josiahva I consider end game anything set to vet difficulty. But yeah, I think I ran a build pretty similar to yours back around Morrowind or hotr: 50k health, igneous, and bone shield (iirc it had more Max Magicka and less max stam, but doesn’t matter). Point is, you can build a perfectly viable tank with or without points into health, so neither your approach nor Code’s is wrong.

Samadhi

Bam_Bam wrote: »

...

But has anyone ever made Healthblade, for example? Actually. while I'm thinking - why does health seem to be completely neglected? OK, I mean I know some tanks only use health. But most builds I see are either magicka or stamina only.
...

Have a Nord Healthblade; focused on HP and HP Regen
5 Green Pact, 5 Orgnum's Scales, 2 Troll King

it 'works' but mostly because of being able to squeeze damage output from Focus proccing after light attacks
kind of fun with the Imbue Weapon skill from Psiijic skills -- Imbue, attack, Imbue, attack, imbue, attack....then proc Focus for some decent damage

With that said, also put the same setup on my Nord Warden and have it work even better
biggest benefit of Warden is having a couple of skills that damage scales with Health stat -- by no means a high DPS build, but tanky and capable of soloing content without going totally mad over length of fights

Preyfar

I may put 6 or so points into health but the rest goes into stam or magicka. Those 6 points don't usually do a lot but I tend to prefer just a bit of extra padding there. The benefits of health are negative if you have a good healer so there's almost no point in having them.

PlagueSD

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Why would a dk tank not go full health? Dragon blood and igneous shield scale to health. Why would a nb or sorc tank not go health? New clock and pet heal scale to health too.

A nightblade tank does not need to go full health because ALL of their siphoning abilities heal them. As long as they are around 30K health, they're fine. Case in point. My magblade tank (37M, 27H, 0S)



Soloing a world boss:
https://youtu.be/yuCeum-vQQk

inthecoconut

PlagueSD wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Why would a dk tank not go full health? Dragon blood and igneous shield scale to health. Why would a nb or sorc tank not go health? New clock and pet heal scale to health too.

A nightblade tank does not need to go full health because ALL of their siphoning abilities heal them. As long as they are around 30K health, they're fine. Case in point. My magblade tank (37M, 27H, 0S)

I know it is totally off topic, but can you offer any tips, insight, ect. into nightblade tank? It has been my favorite class to play as a tank, but I've been told it isn't the best option for end-game PvE. Has that been your experience?

jypcy

inthecoconut wrote: »

PlagueSD wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Why would a dk tank not go full health? Dragon blood and igneous shield scale to health. Why would a nb or sorc tank not go health? New clock and pet heal scale to health too.

A nightblade tank does not need to go full health because ALL of their siphoning abilities heal them. As long as they are around 30K health, they're fine. Case in point. My magblade tank (37M, 27H, 0S)

I know it is totally off topic, but can you offer any tips, insight, ect. into nightblade tank? It has been my favorite class to play as a tank, but I've been told it isn't the best option for end-game PvE. Has that been your experience?

NB is great for end game pve in my experience. However, I wouldn’t call it the best class for end game tanking just because the class doesn’t offer a few features which are often expected of end game tanks:

No pull: silver leash is a substitute, but can be costly to run.
No engulfing flames: Magicka dps tend to use a lot of flame damage, so the 10% buff this skill adds can be significant. It doesn’t stack, though, so this is moot if somebody else in group is applying it.
No Magma shell: not a necessary skill, but arguably the best ultimate in the game if you need a quick “save me” button.
No obsidian shield: not a huge shield for allies, but is useful to help a group survive during high damage phases. Bone shield is a possible substitute, but the group shield has a 20 second cooldown (and can be costly to run).
Poorer stamina sustain: there are workarounds for this, but I’ve found stamina sustain while tanking is easier on a warden or DK than my NB if only accounting for class abilities. Not to say it’s impossible on an NB, but it’s often more strained in situations that stress-test it.

Still, for the majority of critical tasks that a tank is expected to do (hold aggro, survive, buff allies and debuff enemies), NBs are absolutely viable. And fun to boot!

IronCrystal

I put a couple points into hp as a healer. I don't need even stronger heals my heals are strong enough and I have over 40k magicka with like 2700 regen.

It's important for a healer to survive and sometimes that extra few hundred hp helps.

Would I miss it if I put the last few points into magicka? Probably not. Would I get much better heals if I put them into magicka into hp? Not really.

DuskMarine

IronCrystal wrote: »

I put a couple points into hp as a healer. I don't need even stronger heals my heals are strong enough and I have over 40k magicka with like 2700 regen.

It's important for a healer to survive and sometimes that extra few hundred hp helps.

Would I miss it if I put the last few points into magicka? Probably not. Would I get much better heals if I put them into magicka into hp? Not really.

honestly you never need more than 16k health(which is easily broken with just passives and food and ebon) so dumping everything into magicka or stamina really is the best option in everything which is sad as theyve basically turned the health attribute into a why is this even here.

IronCrystal

DuskMarine wrote: »

IronCrystal wrote: »

I put a couple points into hp as a healer. I don't need even stronger heals my heals are strong enough and I have over 40k magicka with like 2700 regen.

It's important for a healer to survive and sometimes that extra few hundred hp helps.

Would I miss it if I put the last few points into magicka? Probably not. Would I get much better heals if I put them into magicka into hp? Not really.

honestly you never need more than 16k health(which is easily broken with just passives and food and ebon) so dumping everything into magicka or stamina really is the best option in everything which is sad as theyve basically turned the health attribute into a why is this even here.

16k hp is not really viable for a trial healer. Especially not when you are trying to guard someone. With the resistances I have with 18k hp I can often survive hits that many dps would get one shot by.