MagDks do you even use wings anymore?

ReverseVenom

Seems like it only reflects a handful of things and is just eaten up by some wood elf with a bow light attack spamming, do you guys still have it slotted? I've been thinking of switching it out for inferno

ak_pvp

Not really. As you said nothing decent is reflected, and often just for LAs, status effects go through, and super expensive.

I do have a flex spot, so occasionally use them in BGs where a stray clench stun knocks you on ur ass and costs near 6k to break.

CatchMeTrolling

I see some of them with it because my light attacks and swarm have been deflected

IZZEFlameLash

It's really not that great. Snare cleanse is really useless. Reflect also isn't that good when damage starts scaling with your own stats. Doesn't really justify 3k costs.

BohnT

Yes i do, they're extremely strong vs a good amount of classes, completely remove the issues with snipers and heavily reduce pressure you face in 1vX.

It's a hardcounter that gives you a free pass in many situations and is useless in many others.

With the current amount of snipers, magsorcs, the increased LA damage with staves and that most magclasses now run fire staff it's really better than many players say

Lichbourne90

^^^ what they said plus it works very well for root removal. The snare removal is moot unless a short immunity is added.

Strider__Roshin

All the freaking time.

Strider__Roshin

ak_pvp wrote: »

Not really. As you said nothing decent is reflected, and often just for LAs, status effects go through, and super expensive.

I do have a flex spot, so occasionally use them in BGs where a stray clench stun knocks you on ur ass and costs near 6k to break.

Snipe, poison injection, Spectral bow, and Crystal Frags are why you should use wings.

Toc de Malsvi

I see it on a regular basis, very annoying. It really is all or nothing though, very strong vs certain builds and worthless vs others. Although I'm starting to find that more and more in BG's it pays to adjust your skill bar/gear after about 5min in the match. Each composition is different and you need different things depending on what you are facing. I see this in other players as well, I have killed plenty of players who didn't use and appeared to not have wings, only for them to come back out of the spawn virtually spamming wings in combat.

Damage wise reflects do not feel all that impactful if you aren't dualing, what I mean is you might, because of players in your face, not notice things being reflected. While I can guarantee the guy getting his skills reflected notices. Also as players move to meta builds that use significantly less reflectable skills, it is increasing less common for players to encounter builds that heavily use reflectable skills.

The nature of reflecting projectiles for damage to the projectile source results in a skill that is far to powerful versus certain effects and far to weak versus everything else. As I have detailed elsewhere a reactive cast of wings to a single Snipe or Frag is always a resource exchange advantage. Then provided more than one projectile is reflected, the skill becomes very very strong. Ideally the reflect portion could be toned down further, either reduced damage or reduced number of reflects, while at the same time adding more benefits to the skill ie more armor, longer duration, movement speed, root/snare immunity. This would make the skill far more versatile against all combatants while being less imbalanced versus projectiles.

brandonv516

Procs sloads
Procs zaan (within range)
Flex spot is open
Can lock down ranged attackers

Haven't played with it much but I'm leaning toward trying it.

ak_pvp

Daus wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Not really. As you said nothing decent is reflected, and often just for LAs, status effects go through, and super expensive.

I do have a flex spot, so occasionally use them in BGs where a stray clench stun knocks you on ur ass and costs near 6k to break.

Snipe, poison injection, Spectral bow, and Crystal Frags are why you should use wings.

Or, ya know I can just block it, and LOS, taking a lot less damage and for cheaper. I get defiled through the wings anyway. Also taking 4 snipes up the arse in 1s, my reactive use of wings won't help.

Also not much point wasting 4k mag when the other 3 things reflected are light attacks.

BohnT wrote: »

Yes i do, they're extremely strong vs a good amount of classes, completely remove the issues with snipers and heavily reduce pressure you face in 1vX.

It's a hardcounter that gives you a free pass in many situations and is useless in many others.

With the current amount of snipers, magsorcs, the increased LA damage with staves and that most magclasses now run fire staff it's really better than many players say

Its a soft counter. Hard would be vs all ranged, but its all "projectiles" with an asterisk, and doesn't include their status effects (does reflect dots now thankfully)

It also really does little vs a magsorc. It can be psychological that they don't want to frag themselves in a 1v1, so basically allows me to go offense, but I have taken magsorcs who just burn right through it or just pressure with everything but frags, and in openworld its just gone so no one really stops.

I did however reflect a cripple and a spectral, killing some zergblade with that and my skoria postmortemly. Which was nice.

IZZEFlameLash

ak_pvp wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Not really. As you said nothing decent is reflected, and often just for LAs, status effects go through, and super expensive.

I do have a flex spot, so occasionally use them in BGs where a stray clench stun knocks you on ur ass and costs near 6k to break.

Snipe, poison injection, Spectral bow, and Crystal Frags are why you should use wings.

Or, ya know I can just block it, and LOS, taking a lot less damage and for cheaper. I get defiled through the wings anyway. Also taking 4 snipes up the arse in 1s, my reactive use of wings won't help.

Also not much point wasting 4k mag when the other 3 things reflected are light attacks.

BohnT wrote: »

Yes i do, they're extremely strong vs a good amount of classes, completely remove the issues with snipers and heavily reduce pressure you face in 1vX.

It's a hardcounter that gives you a free pass in many situations and is useless in many others.

With the current amount of snipers, magsorcs, the increased LA damage with staves and that most magclasses now run fire staff it's really better than many players say

Its a soft counter. Hard would be vs all ranged, but its all "projectiles" with an asterisk, and doesn't include their status effects (does reflect dots now thankfully)

It also really does little vs a magsorc. It can be psychological that they don't want to frag themselves in a 1v1, so basically allows me to go offense, but I have taken magsorcs who just burn right through it or just pressure with everything but frags, and in openworld its just gone so no one really stops.

I did however reflect a cripple and a spectral, killing some zergblade with that and my skoria postmortemly. Which was nice.

My best reflect kill was Assassin's Will reflect on a scrub running all damage build with all divines. Lol and Overload. But I would rather Mist Form and block than flap wings. I do miss Meteor pingpong though.

Metemsycosis

Daus wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Not really. As you said nothing decent is reflected, and often just for LAs, status effects go through, and super expensive.

I do have a flex spot, so occasionally use them in BGs where a stray clench stun knocks you on ur ass and costs near 6k to break.

Snipe, poison injection, Spectral bow, and Crystal Frags are why you should use wings.

Don't forget cripple.

Vapirko

I feel like there has actually been a wings revival. I rarely see Mag DKs without it and even some Stam DKs although that might indicate a lack of experience if anything. Man, the days when stamina DK could use wings almost constantly, and infinite stamina and all those tasty heavy armor and Dk passives with black rose armor.

Gnozo

I Love Wings. When you fight 2 players close range u can easily deal with the snipers in the back with using wings.

Gnozo

Vapirko wrote: »

I feel like there has actually been a wings revival. I rarely see Mag DKs without it and even some Stam DKs although that might indicate a lack of experience if anything. Man, the days when stamina DK could use wings almost constantly, and infinite stamina and all those tasty heavy armor and Dk passives with black rose armor.

Actually no. Wings on stamDk are viable. I testet Wings in heavy armor for snare removal so i can use rally over forward momentum. Its not that Bad.

Vapirko

Gnozo wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

I feel like there has actually been a wings revival. I rarely see Mag DKs without it and even some Stam DKs although that might indicate a lack of experience if anything. Man, the days when stamina DK could use wings almost constantly, and infinite stamina and all those tasty heavy armor and Dk passives with black rose armor.

Actually no. Wings on stamDk are viable. I testet Wings in heavy armor for snare removal so i can use rally over forward momentum. Its not that Bad.

Interesting.

Vanzen

Wings make DK almost immortal from range in Ciro zerg environment.

My Kill/death ratio zerging with destro thanks to wing is usually between 80 et 150. Meaning with wings it takes 80/150 people to kill me ...

So, yup I use wings ...

raasdal

I could not imagine not using wings on either my Stam or MagDK. It is just so good. Can't comprehend anyone not feeling the same.

On my MagDK, my entire playmode is different. Normally, my first "scan" on an enemy is to identify what class and type (Sorcerer, Stam as an example). Then i will know how to deal with the fight from there. But on my MagDK, the very first thing i identify, is wether opponent is ranged or melee. If the opponent is ranged, i already won. Sure sure, some skills go through wings and so on. But no Sorcerer is ever going to kill a Magicka DK, by spamming Curse, Fury and CS. If he does, then the DK deserved it. When outnumbered, i will keep up wings 24/7, which basically allows me to ignore all the ranged casters, and focus on eliminating the Melee (usually Stam) opponents first, since they will hurt the most.

I think Wings are hella stronk.

BohnT

ak_pvp wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Not really. As you said nothing decent is reflected, and often just for LAs, status effects go through, and super expensive.

I do have a flex spot, so occasionally use them in BGs where a stray clench stun knocks you on ur ass and costs near 6k to break.

Snipe, poison injection, Spectral bow, and Crystal Frags are why you should use wings.

Or, ya know I can just block it, and LOS, taking a lot less damage and for cheaper. I get defiled through the wings anyway. Also taking 4 snipes up the arse in 1s, my reactive use of wings won't help.

Also not much point wasting 4k mag when the other 3 things reflected are light attacks.

BohnT wrote: »

Yes i do, they're extremely strong vs a good amount of classes, completely remove the issues with snipers and heavily reduce pressure you face in 1vX.

It's a hardcounter that gives you a free pass in many situations and is useless in many others.

With the current amount of snipers, magsorcs, the increased LA damage with staves and that most magclasses now run fire staff it's really better than many players say

Its a soft counter. Hard would be vs all ranged, but its all "projectiles" with an asterisk, and doesn't include their status effects (does reflect dots now thankfully)

It also really does little vs a magsorc. It can be psychological that they don't want to frag themselves in a 1v1, so basically allows me to go offense, but I have taken magsorcs who just burn right through it or just pressure with everything but frags, and in openworld its just gone so no one really stops.

I did however reflect a cripple and a spectral, killing some zergblade with that and my skoria postmortemly. Which was nice.

It's a hardcounter for all projectiles.
A sniper can't do anything against me, a magnb can't do anything against me, a sorc can only use curse and wrath against me.

If I'm fighting 3 people: a magnb, a sniper and a normal stamnb then I'm fighting 1 player the others are completely unable to touch me.
And that's happening all the time.
You’re too much in cancergrounds to see the viability of wings.

Luigi_Vampa

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Not really. As you said nothing decent is reflected, and often just for LAs, status effects go through, and super expensive.

I do have a flex spot, so occasionally use them in BGs where a stray clench stun knocks you on ur ass and costs near 6k to break.

Snipe, poison injection, Spectral bow, and Crystal Frags are why you should use wings.

Or, ya know I can just block it, and LOS, taking a lot less damage and for cheaper. I get defiled through the wings anyway. Also taking 4 snipes up the arse in 1s, my reactive use of wings won't help.

Also not much point wasting 4k mag when the other 3 things reflected are light attacks.

BohnT wrote: »

Yes i do, they're extremely strong vs a good amount of classes, completely remove the issues with snipers and heavily reduce pressure you face in 1vX.

It's a hardcounter that gives you a free pass in many situations and is useless in many others.

With the current amount of snipers, magsorcs, the increased LA damage with staves and that most magclasses now run fire staff it's really better than many players say

Its a soft counter. Hard would be vs all ranged, but its all "projectiles" with an asterisk, and doesn't include their status effects (does reflect dots now thankfully)

It also really does little vs a magsorc. It can be psychological that they don't want to frag themselves in a 1v1, so basically allows me to go offense, but I have taken magsorcs who just burn right through it or just pressure with everything but frags, and in openworld its just gone so no one really stops.

I did however reflect a cripple and a spectral, killing some zergblade with that and my skoria postmortemly. Which was nice.

My best reflect kill was Assassin's Will reflect on a scrub running all damage build with all divines. Lol and Overload. But I would rather Mist Form and block than flap wings. I do miss Meteor pingpong though.

Meteor ping pong was the best. ZOS needs to look at wings. It is becoming useless.

Feanor

I think it’s an ability that’s tough to find the sweet spot for - by design. It either shuts down the opponent completely or doesn’t help at all. Very much like cloak in that regard actually. I have yet to read a buff suggestion that wasn’t bringing too much to the table.

ak_pvp

BohnT wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Not really. As you said nothing decent is reflected, and often just for LAs, status effects go through, and super expensive.

I do have a flex spot, so occasionally use them in BGs where a stray clench stun knocks you on ur ass and costs near 6k to break.

Snipe, poison injection, Spectral bow, and Crystal Frags are why you should use wings.

Or, ya know I can just block it, and LOS, taking a lot less damage and for cheaper. I get defiled through the wings anyway. Also taking 4 snipes up the arse in 1s, my reactive use of wings won't help.

Also not much point wasting 4k mag when the other 3 things reflected are light attacks.

BohnT wrote: »

Yes i do, they're extremely strong vs a good amount of classes, completely remove the issues with snipers and heavily reduce pressure you face in 1vX.

It's a hardcounter that gives you a free pass in many situations and is useless in many others.

With the current amount of snipers, magsorcs, the increased LA damage with staves and that most magclasses now run fire staff it's really better than many players say

Its a soft counter. Hard would be vs all ranged, but its all "projectiles" with an asterisk, and doesn't include their status effects (does reflect dots now thankfully)

It also really does little vs a magsorc. It can be psychological that they don't want to frag themselves in a 1v1, so basically allows me to go offense, but I have taken magsorcs who just burn right through it or just pressure with everything but frags, and in openworld its just gone so no one really stops.

I did however reflect a cripple and a spectral, killing some zergblade with that and my skoria postmortemly. Which was nice.

It's a hardcounter for all projectiles.
A sniper can't do anything against me, a magnb can't do anything against me, a sorc can only use curse and wrath against me.

If I'm fighting 3 people: a magnb, a sniper and a normal stamnb then I'm fighting 1 player the others are completely unable to touch me.
And that's happening all the time.
You’re too much in cancergrounds to see the viability of wings.

Projectiles that don't include bird, or pulse for some reason, nor status effects they carry. I can kinda see pulse as a beam, but bird is indeed a projectile. A sorc can also pulse, fury and cage to get around that. And if you have those 3 specs around, and they aren't total ***, they will just do 2 LAs and break it every 1.2~s draining your mag. Even reacting to the snipes (assuming it doesn't desync) is kinda futile.

Its a hard counter to ranged NB, that is about it.

Feanor wrote: »

I think it’s an ability that’s tough to find the sweet spot for - by design. It either shuts down the opponent completely or doesn’t help at all. Very much like cloak in that regard actually. I have yet to read a buff suggestion that wasn’t bringing too much to the table.

I say 4s, 3 per person. Inc pulse and bird, (maybe exempt cripple/swarm) Drops on CC. Possibly make the snare removal morph only a deflect. Much better on all ends. Also stops status effects.

Stops less 1v1 and is shorter, stops more out numbered, has a way to drop it, as well as more sensical soft countering ranged abilities (dots like cripple/swarm and delayed curse/potl/fury style things.) but is better reactively vs direct instant damage abilities.

Ashamray

Worse than Shimmering Shield but still good ability.

Diddly_D_Potatoes

Yes, because it is incredibly satisfying to kill someone with a reflect.

Grimlok_S

Vapirko wrote: »

I feel like there has actually been a wings revival. I rarely see Mag DKs without it and even some Stam DKs although that might indicate a lack of experience if anything. Man, the days when stamina DK could use wings almost constantly, and infinite stamina and all those tasty heavy armor and Dk passives with black rose armor.

I run wings on my solo stamdk in Shor. I don't need to tell you why, lol.

The damage % amp morph is actually hilarious.

KingLogix

BohnT wrote: »

Yes i do, they're extremely strong vs a good amount of classes, completely remove the issues with snipers and heavily reduce pressure you face in 1vX.

It's a hardcounter that gives you a free pass in many situations and is useless in many others.

With the current amount of snipers, magsorcs, the increased LA damage with staves and that most magclasses now run fire staff it's really better than many players say

Hey John! I think we cross paths alot on dragon knight related posts. I'm currently not a huge fan of wings. As a stam dk, I have 10k stam and really cant afford to slot another magic ability. I have just enough magic to keep up igneous, and volatile(This can be a huge magic dump when taking NB out of cloak). I guess its situational, but I am curious to hear what your thoughts on it.

BohnT

KingLogix wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Yes i do, they're extremely strong vs a good amount of classes, completely remove the issues with snipers and heavily reduce pressure you face in 1vX.

It's a hardcounter that gives you a free pass in many situations and is useless in many others.

With the current amount of snipers, magsorcs, the increased LA damage with staves and that most magclasses now run fire staff it's really better than many players say

Hey John! I think we cross paths alot on dragon knight related posts. I'm currently not a huge fan of wings. As a stam dk, I have 10k stam and really cant afford to slot another magic ability. I have just enough magic to keep up igneous, and volatile(This can be a huge magic dump when taking NB out of cloak). I guess its situational, but I am curious to hear what your thoughts on it.

I guess the useage of Wings on stamdk comes down to used sets, food and mindset in cyro.

I don't slot wings when i'm running with 10k mag or without backbarred prisoners rags.

If i use tristat food or shackle or prisoners / or tristat + one of the sets i always slot wings especially with prisoners you will never have any mag issues, with medium armor and some cp you i can sprint and use igneous without losing resources.

I had some fights where i tried to escape a zerg and had 100% wings uptime vs 12 players while sprinting from Alessia to Chalman (i survived in the end due to 2 friends showing up)

However i can understand why people don't use wings and slot a different ability, it's very reliant on which enemies you are fighting and it doesn't really help you against one of the biggest threats for stamdks, stamnbs.
But when i'm playing stamdk i don't chase any stamnb and know that i can't kill them if they are somewhat decent, i don't even try to reveal them anymore with volatile armor as you just waste resources and in the end they will still heal back to full health while you are out of magicka when they come back meaning you won't have major mending.

For me wings is my insurance to not get rekt by snipers, Caluurion magnbs, overload gankers and Sorcs in general. It shuts them down very nicely but you have to be able to sustain it and it can leave you in a wrong sense of security if you don't take much damage vs. 4 ranged enemies and then you get rekt quickly vs 2 meele dds because you were too offensive.

But i just want to say one last thing, i don't bother with stamdk in pvp at this point anymore, in any fight i had another spec would've been better as much as i want to play stamdk it's simply not viable to play atm.
I really tried to play stamdk in Summerset but i just can't, i can't find a reason to use it and everytime i think i can try it again i'm let down again by how bad the class is

Hutch679

ak_pvp wrote: »

Not really. As you said nothing decent is reflected, and often just for LAs, status effects go through, and super expensive.

I do have a flex spot, so occasionally use them in BGs where a stray clench stun knocks you on ur ass and costs near 6k to break.

Nothing decent is reflected? How about clench? Frags? Dark flare? Snipe? Staff and bow light/heavy attacks? Caluurions legacy proc? Hmmmm.

VirtualElizabeth

Hands down its the best freakin' animation in the game. Why would you not use it LOL!

imokie2609

I love wings. As already said, its a single skill that counters so much. I cannot imagine why anyone would run a MagDk without wings...