MagDks do you even use wings anymore?

ak_pvp

Hutch679 wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Not really. As you said nothing decent is reflected, and often just for LAs, status effects go through, and super expensive.

I do have a flex spot, so occasionally use them in BGs where a stray clench stun knocks you on ur ass and costs near 6k to break.

Nothing decent is reflected? How about clench? Frags? Dark flare? Snipe? Staff and bow light/heavy attacks? Caluurions legacy proc? Hmmmm.

How about literally all the other abilities that go through it. Shall we make cloak only cloak the wings specific reflectables?

Wings is ***, by far the worst defense when outnumbered, and those defending it are generally ranged mains who cry when something is reflected. You know the defiles from flare/snipe still go through. How is that a decent def?

Hmmmm.

WhoThenNow7

ak_pvp wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Not really. As you said nothing decent is reflected, and often just for LAs, status effects go through, and super expensive.

I do have a flex spot, so occasionally use them in BGs where a stray clench stun knocks you on ur ass and costs near 6k to break.

Nothing decent is reflected? How about clench? Frags? Dark flare? Snipe? Staff and bow light/heavy attacks? Caluurions legacy proc? Hmmmm.

How about literally all the other abilities that go through it. Shall we make cloak only cloak the wings specific reflectables?

Wings is ***, by far the worst defense when outnumbered, and those defending it are generally ranged mains who cry when something is reflected. You know the defiles from flare/snipe still go through. How is that a decent def?

Hmmmm.

I'm a magdk main and I love wings. So.......?

FloppyTouch

I still find them useful for the reason of so many nb snipe spammers and overload sorcs and mag nb in open world pvp. Yes only a few skill can be reflecting but those skills are used none stop.

MaximillianDiE

I have tried to run without them but there are just so many snipers and sorc overload spammers out there that I really have to keep them on my bar - especially on my side trips to non-CP where every second player is a bowtard.

Emma_Overload

LOL at this idea that wings are dead... If only.

Just re-roll to Magicka Sorc, and you'll find wing flapping DKs popping out of the woodwork!

Mr_Nobody

wings is a skill that defines MagDk ~

ak_pvp

BohnT wrote: »

KingLogix wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Yes i do, they're extremely strong vs a good amount of classes, completely remove the issues with snipers and heavily reduce pressure you face in 1vX.

It's a hardcounter that gives you a free pass in many situations and is useless in many others.

With the current amount of snipers, magsorcs, the increased LA damage with staves and that most magclasses now run fire staff it's really better than many players say

Hey John! I think we cross paths alot on dragon knight related posts. I'm currently not a huge fan of wings. As a stam dk, I have 10k stam and really cant afford to slot another magic ability. I have just enough magic to keep up igneous, and volatile(This can be a huge magic dump when taking NB out of cloak). I guess its situational, but I am curious to hear what your thoughts on it.

I had some fights where i tried to escape a zerg and had 100% wings uptime vs 12 players while sprinting from Alessia to Chalman (i survived in the end due to 2 friends showing up)

That is probably because a tone of ranged skills aren't reflected.

Emma_Overload wrote: »

LOL at this idea that wings are dead... If only.

Just re-roll to Magicka Sorc, and you'll find wing flapping DKs popping out of the woodwork!

And have all but 1 skill (and 1 niche ult I suppose) not reflected. Magsorcs have it easy vs wings.

ak_pvp

If you think wings are good lets give cloak the wings treatment aye?

IZZEFlameLash

If wings make me invisible, I will use it. As is, Mist Form does much more at similar cost AND gives snare immunity.

WhoThenNow7

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

If wings make me invisible, I will use it. As is, Mist Form does much more at similar cost AND gives snare immunity.

Not exactly. You can't attack while you are in mist form. Now mist form does have its benefits don't get me wrong. Snare immunity, positioning yourself better, defending yourself from a high attack; but in the end, mist form is more or less running away from death whereas wings is standing your ground and not giving a **** about a ranged projectile while you go in for the kill. If you are a heavy armor dk I can see mist form being better. But I main a light armor destro resto dk- wings all day for me. If it's any type of ranged build i already know I won the fight, while still having other types of defense against melee attackers (shields and fossilize)

IZZEFlameLash

WhoThenNow7 wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

If wings make me invisible, I will use it. As is, Mist Form does much more at similar cost AND gives snare immunity.

Not exactly. You can't attack while you are in mist form. Now mist form does have its benefits don't get me wrong. Snare immunity, positioning yourself better, defending yourself from a high attack; but in the end, mist form is more or less running away from death whereas wings is standing your ground and not giving a **** about a ranged projectile while you go in for the kill. If you are a heavy armor dk I can see mist form being better. But I main a light armor destro resto dk- wings all day for me. If it's any type of ranged build i already know I won the fight, while still having other types of defense against melee attackers (shields and fossilize)

Standing your ground doesn't work in this game except for maybe Healthden. Which is exactly why wings are shite. This game requires moblitiy which is why FM is crucial in this snarefest and why MF(Mist Form) is crucial for Templars and DKs. I like the reflect yes but it is not really something to boast about. If it had snare immunity though, sure, I'd flap my wings again.

Still_Mind

My experience with the MDK tells me that wings are only useful against potatoes.

As much as I like watching a scrub sorc blow himself up with overload, I don't feel like adding wings to my bar at the expense of another well-established skill.

Mist seems like a better, more universal defensive tool, despite the drawbacks.

Also, wings can screw you up if you get Eclipsed and don't break fast enough-your reflected damage will be re-reflected to you, and that's a shameful way to die.

Kadoin

I don't use wings...I simply block instead.

bardx86

ak_pvp wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Not really. As you said nothing decent is reflected, and often just for LAs, status effects go through, and super expensive.

I do have a flex spot, so occasionally use them in BGs where a stray clench stun knocks you on ur ass and costs near 6k to break.

Snipe, poison injection, Spectral bow, and Crystal Frags are why you should use wings.

Or, ya know I can just block it, and LOS, taking a lot less damage and for cheaper. I get defiled through the wings anyway. Also taking 4 snipes up the arse in 1s, my reactive use of wings won't help.

Also not much point wasting 4k mag when the other 3 things reflected are light attacks.

BohnT wrote: »

Yes i do, they're extremely strong vs a good amount of classes, completely remove the issues with snipers and heavily reduce pressure you face in 1vX.

It's a hardcounter that gives you a free pass in many situations and is useless in many others.

With the current amount of snipers, magsorcs, the increased LA damage with staves and that most magclasses now run fire staff it's really better than many players say

Its a soft counter. Hard would be vs all ranged, but its all "projectiles" with an asterisk, and doesn't include their status effects (does reflect dots now thankfully)

It also really does little vs a magsorc. It can be psychological that they don't want to frag themselves in a 1v1, so basically allows me to go offense, but I have taken magsorcs who just burn right through it or just pressure with everything but frags, and in openworld its just gone so no one really stops.

I did however reflect a cripple and a spectral, killing some zergblade with that and my skoria postmortemly. Which was nice.

It's a hardcounter for all projectiles.
A sniper can't do anything against me, a magnb can't do anything against me, a sorc can only use curse and wrath against me.

If I'm fighting 3 people: a magnb, a sniper and a normal stamnb then I'm fighting 1 player the others are completely unable to touch me.
And that's happening all the time.
You’re too much in cancergrounds to see the viability of wings.

Projectiles that don't include bird, or pulse for some reason, nor status effects they carry. I can kinda see pulse as a beam, but bird is indeed a projectile. A sorc can also pulse, fury and cage to get around that. And if you have those 3 specs around, and they aren't total ***, they will just do 2 LAs and break it every 1.2~s draining your mag. Even reacting to the snipes (assuming it doesn't desync) is kinda futile.

Its a hard counter to ranged NB, that is about it.

Feanor wrote: »

I think it’s an ability that’s tough to find the sweet spot for - by design. It either shuts down the opponent completely or doesn’t help at all. Very much like cloak in that regard actually. I have yet to read a buff suggestion that wasn’t bringing too much to the table.

I say 4s, 3 per person. Inc pulse and bird, (maybe exempt cripple/swarm) Drops on CC. Possibly make the snare removal morph only a deflect. Much better on all ends. Also stops status effects.

Stops less 1v1 and is shorter, stops more out numbered, has a way to drop it, as well as more sensical soft countering ranged abilities (dots like cripple/swarm and delayed curse/potl/fury style things.) but is better reactively vs direct instant damage abilities.

Are you seriously going to argue with someone who says he uses it and uses it effectively? losing some credibility here. Wings are hella strong vs a Sorc, I feel like its almost a required skill in the current meta.

bardx86

ak_pvp wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

KingLogix wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Yes i do, they're extremely strong vs a good amount of classes, completely remove the issues with snipers and heavily reduce pressure you face in 1vX.

It's a hardcounter that gives you a free pass in many situations and is useless in many others.

With the current amount of snipers, magsorcs, the increased LA damage with staves and that most magclasses now run fire staff it's really better than many players say

Hey John! I think we cross paths alot on dragon knight related posts. I'm currently not a huge fan of wings. As a stam dk, I have 10k stam and really cant afford to slot another magic ability. I have just enough magic to keep up igneous, and volatile(This can be a huge magic dump when taking NB out of cloak). I guess its situational, but I am curious to hear what your thoughts on it.

I had some fights where i tried to escape a zerg and had 100% wings uptime vs 12 players while sprinting from Alessia to Chalman (i survived in the end due to 2 friends showing up)

That is probably because a tone of ranged skills aren't reflected.

Emma_Overload wrote: »

LOL at this idea that wings are dead... If only.

Just re-roll to Magicka Sorc, and you'll find wing flapping DKs popping out of the woodwork!

And have all but 1 skill (and 1 niche ult I suppose) not reflected. Magsorcs have it easy vs wings.

Dude! I play a MSorc. I hate fighting DK's with wings

ak_pvp wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

KingLogix wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Yes i do, they're extremely strong vs a good amount of classes, completely remove the issues with snipers and heavily reduce pressure you face in 1vX.

It's a hardcounter that gives you a free pass in many situations and is useless in many others.

With the current amount of snipers, magsorcs, the increased LA damage with staves and that most magclasses now run fire staff it's really better than many players say

Hey John! I think we cross paths alot on dragon knight related posts. I'm currently not a huge fan of wings. As a stam dk, I have 10k stam and really cant afford to slot another magic ability. I have just enough magic to keep up igneous, and volatile(This can be a huge magic dump when taking NB out of cloak). I guess its situational, but I am curious to hear what your thoughts on it.

I had some fights where i tried to escape a zerg and had 100% wings uptime vs 12 players while sprinting from Alessia to Chalman (i survived in the end due to 2 friends showing up)

That is probably because a tone of ranged skills aren't reflected.

Emma_Overload wrote: »

LOL at this idea that wings are dead... If only.

Just re-roll to Magicka Sorc, and you'll find wing flapping DKs popping out of the woodwork!

And have all but 1 skill (and 1 niche ult I suppose) not reflected. Magsorcs have it easy vs wings.

GTFO. Dude! I play a MSorc. I hate fighting DK's with wings.

brandonv516

We shut down a team of 4 magsorcs last night between Reflective Plate and Total Dark.

Having wings was invaluable in that scenario. However, I run into a melee character or two and this spot on the bar becomes less useful.

I appreciate the snare removal from Reflective Plate but without a 3s+ immunity, I still need Mist Form too.

Hutch679

ak_pvp wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Not really. As you said nothing decent is reflected, and often just for LAs, status effects go through, and super expensive.

I do have a flex spot, so occasionally use them in BGs where a stray clench stun knocks you on ur ass and costs near 6k to break.

Nothing decent is reflected? How about clench? Frags? Dark flare? Snipe? Staff and bow light/heavy attacks? Caluurions legacy proc? Hmmmm.

How about literally all the other abilities that go through it. Shall we make cloak only cloak the wings specific reflectables?

Wings is ***, by far the worst defense when outnumbered, and those defending it are generally ranged mains who cry when something is reflected. You know the defiles from flare/snipe still go through. How is that a decent def?

Hmmmm.

Removes snares. Back at you now.

Hutch679

ak_pvp wrote: »

If you think wings are good lets give cloak the wings treatment aye?

Let's give cloak the streak treatment. Double the cost of cast within a certain amount of time, aye?

grannas211

Hutch679 wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

If you think wings are good lets give cloak the wings treatment aye?

Let's give cloak the streak treatment. Double the cost of cast within a certain amount of time, aye?

bUt STrEaK iS Op, cLoAk iS BAlAnCeD

usmguy1234

imokie2609 wrote: »

I love wings. As already said, its a single skill that counters so much. I cannot imagine why anyone would run a MagDk without wings...

It's a must for light armor dks in my honest opinion.

Minalan

Think of it this way, with the light attack changes - at a MINIMUM ranged Magicka is looking at a fat 16K tooltip of damage (assuming you didn’t take the increase damage morph) just to take down wings.

Given how much light attacks do now, it’s worth it to be able to pitch BACK that component of damage to the caster, and it doesn’t even consider if you reflect something even juicer back at them..

NBrookus

3500 magicka to reflect free to cast light attacks while still eating the crushing shock weave isn't a terribly good trade. Also, unless they changed it, the damge gets mitigated by you, THEN it adds the extra damage component on the reflect. So you don't really get any bonus damage, it's just a bit more than the other morph.

With the number of snipe/overload spammers right now, I absolutely slot wings. But they will suck your magicka dry in no time if you try to reflect everything.

Now, if they could reflect Sloads and status effects and siege projectiles...

idk

Use of wings on Varlariel is the only lace I can think of it is beneficial in PvE.. Very random in PvP.

ak_pvp

Hutch679 wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Not really. As you said nothing decent is reflected, and often just for LAs, status effects go through, and super expensive.

I do have a flex spot, so occasionally use them in BGs where a stray clench stun knocks you on ur ass and costs near 6k to break.

Nothing decent is reflected? How about clench? Frags? Dark flare? Snipe? Staff and bow light/heavy attacks? Caluurions legacy proc? Hmmmm.

How about literally all the other abilities that go through it. Shall we make cloak only cloak the wings specific reflectables?

Wings is ***, by far the worst defense when outnumbered, and those defending it are generally ranged mains who cry when something is reflected. You know the defiles from flare/snipe still go through. How is that a decent def?

Hmmmm.

Removes snares. Back at you now.

Hahahahahaha. You mean the morph that everyone thinks is 99% useless? Since an AoE/snaring dot reapplies it in th next tick, very nearly instantly. Hell, I run FM for removal, and many run mist still.

Hutch679 wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

If you think wings are good lets give cloak the wings treatment aye?

Let's give cloak the streak treatment. Double the cost of cast within a certain amount of time, aye?

Streak treatment sux. But streak is comparable to shade, DK has nothing of the catagory, maybe empowering chains? Wings is comparable to purge/cloak/hardened/shimmering, and comes out the worst of them all. Shields can absorb similar level of LAs whilst absorbing everything else bar oblivion, mitigating crits, and having no defiles. Wings... well it doesn't even do a lot of the projectiles.

bardx86 wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Not really. As you said nothing decent is reflected, and often just for LAs, status effects go through, and super expensive.

I do have a flex spot, so occasionally use them in BGs where a stray clench stun knocks you on ur ass and costs near 6k to break.

Snipe, poison injection, Spectral bow, and Crystal Frags are why you should use wings.

Or, ya know I can just block it, and LOS, taking a lot less damage and for cheaper. I get defiled through the wings anyway. Also taking 4 snipes up the arse in 1s, my reactive use of wings won't help.

Also not much point wasting 4k mag when the other 3 things reflected are light attacks.

BohnT wrote: »

Yes i do, they're extremely strong vs a good amount of classes, completely remove the issues with snipers and heavily reduce pressure you face in 1vX.

It's a hardcounter that gives you a free pass in many situations and is useless in many others.

With the current amount of snipers, magsorcs, the increased LA damage with staves and that most magclasses now run fire staff it's really better than many players say

Its a soft counter. Hard would be vs all ranged, but its all "projectiles" with an asterisk, and doesn't include their status effects (does reflect dots now thankfully)

It also really does little vs a magsorc. It can be psychological that they don't want to frag themselves in a 1v1, so basically allows me to go offense, but I have taken magsorcs who just burn right through it or just pressure with everything but frags, and in openworld its just gone so no one really stops.

I did however reflect a cripple and a spectral, killing some zergblade with that and my skoria postmortemly. Which was nice.

It's a hardcounter for all projectiles.
A sniper can't do anything against me, a magnb can't do anything against me, a sorc can only use curse and wrath against me.

If I'm fighting 3 people: a magnb, a sniper and a normal stamnb then I'm fighting 1 player the others are completely unable to touch me.
And that's happening all the time.
You’re too much in cancergrounds to see the viability of wings.

Projectiles that don't include bird, or pulse for some reason, nor status effects they carry. I can kinda see pulse as a beam, but bird is indeed a projectile. A sorc can also pulse, fury and cage to get around that. And if you have those 3 specs around, and they aren't total ***, they will just do 2 LAs and break it every 1.2~s draining your mag. Even reacting to the snipes (assuming it doesn't desync) is kinda futile.

Its a hard counter to ranged NB, that is about it.

Feanor wrote: »

I think it’s an ability that’s tough to find the sweet spot for - by design. It either shuts down the opponent completely or doesn’t help at all. Very much like cloak in that regard actually. I have yet to read a buff suggestion that wasn’t bringing too much to the table.

I say 4s, 3 per person. Inc pulse and bird, (maybe exempt cripple/swarm) Drops on CC. Possibly make the snare removal morph only a deflect. Much better on all ends. Also stops status effects.

Stops less 1v1 and is shorter, stops more out numbered, has a way to drop it, as well as more sensical soft countering ranged abilities (dots like cripple/swarm and delayed curse/potl/fury style things.) but is better reactively vs direct instant damage abilities.

Are you seriously going to argue with someone who says he uses it and uses it effectively? losing some credibility here. Wings are hella strong vs a Sorc, I feel like its almost a required skill in the current meta.

Yes, I am. Considering I have mained the class since beta I know my *** at least, I also use it effectively, as you said its semi important this meta, specifically because if I don't, I'd probably be oneshot by a sorc combo, since I can't block it like I can snipe. That doesn't mean it is a good ability. No one really used it last patch, because it wasn't worth it.

You and your sorcy crying is a little sad. Yeah, it can counter them in a 1v1 where frags is necessary. But everything else goes through. Its like a 1v1 where my whip didn't work, I won't be killing anyone. HOWEVER, if shields only prevented my whip and LAs, you'd be pretty pissed I would assume yes? And if that were the case, I would simply 1) not duel you, as you can vs a wingDK, or 2) Run an equally cheese build that tears through it without whip, i.e. pets, blockade, and pressure via curse, pulse, fury etc.

Its less of a counter than shields are, especially harness, which pays for itself vs mag.

IZZEFlameLash

If you get countered by wing as a Sorc or mNB, I have a bad news for you. You might not be as good as you think you are.

ItsNebula

ReverseVenom wrote: »

Seems like it only reflects a handful of things and is just eaten up by some wood elf with a bow light attack spamming, do you guys still have it slotted? I've been thinking of switching it out for inferno

Oh yeah, With the other morph (cant remember its name) for snare removal, its VERY effective, considering its the only form of snare removal we have... thats reliable.

ZOS is even talking about giving it a snare immunity for a few seconds too, which would be a HUGE helpful bonus to MagDK. Its much needed since our power lash can be dodged now.. the skill we kinda relied on for quicks heals and burst.

thankyourat

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

If you get countered by wing as a Sorc or mNB, I have a bad news for you. You might not be as good as you think you are.

You know if you are playing destro resto magblade literally none of your abilities get through wings. As long as dk's keep wings up a magblade can't kill them. I think it's the other way around if you play a mag dk and you can't shut a magblade down by using wings they probably aren't that experienced. That's generally the mag dk's that I kill either the ones who let their magicka run low giving me a chance to burst or the ones that get to thirsty and forget to cast wings. If you fight a dk that always keeps it's wings up you can't kill them. A lot of dks will pop wings and then resto staff heavy attack right in your face because they know you can't touch them

Farscape76

I find wings to be very useful in a duel, but in open combat they are quickly overwhelmed.

Leaving me just whelmed in regards to the skill