Meta and, sorry, Sloads = a possible effect?

generalmyrick · June 2018

I hear talks that this sloads is the meta, from the ps4 side i say = eh, don't see it in the recap much...i think our recaps are dominated by 2h and bow skills.

however, if so many people running sloads --> wouldn't it follow that all that heavy armor is unnecessary and you'd all be better putting your resources and gear and skill points into thing that matter more?

i love reading your thoughts on theory crafting! In summary, if you can't block it, then why block?

casparian · June 2018

The only way to deal with Sload's is to outheal it. (Even if you're running a purge, you can't spam purge as often as Sload's is applied without losing offensive potency.) Heavy armor gives a large healing boost. Thus the Sload's meta is, if anything, a heavy armor meta. The only character I have who hasn't shifted back to heavy armor is my stamplar, who is in medium Impreg with a lot of points in Quick Recovery.

Peekachu99 · June 2018

Heavy Armor is in all ways inferior unless you’re PVE tanking (even then you can get better sustain and defended through set combos). Dodge roll/ Dodge and Shields will mitigate far more. Nothing beats raw avoidance of damage and/ or effects.

They really need to making tanking and heavy armor worth something again.

casparian · June 2018

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Dodge roll/ Dodge and Shields will mitigate far more.

In general, yes. But this is a thread about Sload's, which goes through both dodge and shields.

UppGRAYxDD · June 2018

Sloads isn't really meta, unless you run BGs or No CP....

Peekachu99 · June 2018

casparian wrote: »

The only way to deal with Sload's is to outheal it. (Even if you're running a purge, you can't spam purge as often as Sload's is applied without losing offensive potency.) Heavy armor gives a large healing boost. Thus the Sload's meta is, if anything, a heavy armor meta. The only character I have who hasn't shifted back to heavy armor is my stamplar, who is in medium Impreg with a lot of points in Quick Recovery.

A stam NB (or whatever) spamming 15K Vigors will ignore Sload’s completely (and dodge roll most of the stuff that’s not undodgeable). Likewise for a Templar or any magika stacked toon that has a brain. That 8% doesn’t mean much unless you’re stacking it with even more sources of +healing. But why would you do that when you can have a massive stat pool? Constitution is rubbish and doesn’t beat the added regen, reduction and perks of the other weights. I even tank DLC vets and Trials now in either Medium or Light (alteration mastery is OP). Especially since most people run vamp now and that health regen bonus is a useless stat.

Peekachu99 · June 2018

casparian wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Dodge roll/ Dodge and Shields will mitigate far more.

In general, yes. But this is a thread about Sload's, which goes through both dodge and shields.

No, the OP is specifically discussing whether HA is needed to counter Sload’s, which it isn’t—as explained even better in a subsequent post of mine.

generalmyrick · June 2018

sure, but looking forward,

how does this change builds and such? (maybe not yours but where do you see the game going?)

Peekachu99 · June 2018

generalmyrick wrote: »

sure, but looking forward,

how does this change builds and such? (maybe not yours but where do you see the game going?)

In the toilet, to be honest. Every game that has chased a strict dps-meta has failed. Power creep gets out of control and content is irrelevant almost as quickly as it’s launched.

generalmyrick · June 2018

less zerging? people won't have to be in such large groups to destroy 40k resist 5k impen 1vx gods?

Thogard · June 2018

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Heavy Armor is in all ways inferior unless you’re PVE tanking (even then you can get better sustain and defended through set combos). Dodge roll/ Dodge and Shields will mitigate far more. Nothing beats raw avoidance of damage and/ or effects.

They really need to making tanking and heavy armor worth something again.

Peekachu99 wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

The only way to deal with Sload's is to outheal it. (Even if you're running a purge, you can't spam purge as often as Sload's is applied without losing offensive potency.) Heavy armor gives a large healing boost. Thus the Sload's meta is, if anything, a heavy armor meta. The only character I have who hasn't shifted back to heavy armor is my stamplar, who is in medium Impreg with a lot of points in Quick Recovery.

A stam NB (or whatever) spamming 15K Vigors will ignore Sload’s completely (and dodge roll most of the stuff that’s not undodgeable). Likewise for a Templar or any magika stacked toon that has a brain. That 8% doesn’t mean much unless you’re stacking it with even more sources of +healing. But why would you do that when you can have a massive stat pool? Constitution is rubbish and doesn’t beat the added regen, reduction and perks of the other weights. I even tank DLC vets and Trials now in either Medium or Light (alteration mastery is OP). Especially since most people run vamp now and that health regen bonus is a useless stat.

It’s like you’re trying to cram as much wrongness into your posts as possible.

OP - most people on PC NA have dropped bloodspawn or a dmg 2 pc from their builds and are running troll king instead. The new gold food with extra Health Regen helps too. Health Regen or lingering pots seems to be the preferred way to deal with Sload spam.

Olupajmibanan · June 2018

Sload is real problem mostly in BGs. Magicka templar in team was nice help before Summeret, now he is a true blessing thanks to Sload and bleed meta.

In BGs, flow of combat is fast enough that you can't put much into defense. General strategy is to destroy your oponent before he destroys you. Outlasting your oponent is a valid tactic, however not working well in BGs.

Datthaw · June 2018

I've come to decide that anyone who defends sloads is either a troll, uses it, or doesn't even pvp. Console might not have it like pc does but it's sloads/poisons on majority of my recaps now.

Sloads meta needs to die. Everyone is going to start running either duroks/sloads or heavy armor hp regen builds. And that's lame

Waffennacht · June 2018

New food + TK = no sload

Datthaw · June 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

New food + TK = no sload

Maybe 1 sload, but what if you have 5 of them stacked on you?

generalmyrick · June 2018

Datthaw wrote: »

I've come to decide that anyone who defends sloads is either a troll, uses it, or doesn't even pvp. Console might not have it like pc does but it's sloads/poisons on majority of my recaps now.

Sloads meta needs to die. Everyone is going to start running either duroks/sloads or heavy armor hp regen builds. And that's lame

surely there must be more options?

Waffennacht · June 2018

Datthaw wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

New food + TK = no sload

Maybe 1 sload, but what if you have 5 of them stacked on you?

If I'm being hit by 5 players, I'm pretty confident I'm dead.

generalmyrick · June 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

New food + TK = no sload

Maybe 1 sload, but what if you have 5 of them stacked on you?

If I'm being hit by 5 players, I'm pretty confident I'm dead.

There has to be a reason people dont want to see your point..

exeeter702 · June 2018

Datthaw wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

New food + TK = no sload

Maybe 1 sload, but what if you have 5 of them stacked on you?

List for me a food+monster set combo that will save you from 5 non potato players focusing you.

Thogard · June 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

New food + TK = no sload

Maybe 1 sload, but what if you have 5 of them stacked on you?

If I'm being hit by 5 players, I'm pretty confident I'm dead.

generalmyrick wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

New food + TK = no sload

Maybe 1 sload, but what if you have 5 of them stacked on you?

If I'm being hit by 5 players, I'm pretty confident I'm dead.

There has to be a reason people dont want to see your point..

Let’s clear up one thing real quick:

Whether or not five players should be killable by one player is a SEPARATE ISSUE from whether or not sloads is OP.

If the only thing keeping 5 bad players alive against one good player is sloads, and no other set in its place would lead to that same outcome, then sloads is OP. No single set should determine the outcome of ANY fight like that.

If you were gonna lose anyway, who cares. Doesn’t matter. Win anyway? No big deal. Same performance either way.

But sloads DOES singlehandedly change fight outcomes. It enables bad players by a significantly larger margin than any other set. If there were other options the bad players could also use, it wouldn’t be overperforming because it would be performing the same as those other sets.. that’s what that word means lol.

But there aren’t other options. There is only sloads.

And that is why it is overpowered compared to other sets.

Now if ZOS buffed all the other proc dmg sets (viper, sheer venom, way of fire lol, affliction, poisonous serpent, etc) and left sloads alone, then sure, sloads wouldn’t be overperforming.

But at present, sloads is in a league of its own and has no viable comparison. It is singlehandedly changing the outcome of fights. That is the DEFINITION of overperforming.

Waffennacht · June 2018

Thogard wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

New food + TK = no sload

Maybe 1 sload, but what if you have 5 of them stacked on you?

If I'm being hit by 5 players, I'm pretty confident I'm dead.

generalmyrick wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

New food + TK = no sload

Maybe 1 sload, but what if you have 5 of them stacked on you?

If I'm being hit by 5 players, I'm pretty confident I'm dead.

There has to be a reason people dont want to see your point..

If the only thing keeping 5 bad players alive against one good player is sloads, then sloads is OP. No single set should determine the outcome of ANY fight like that.

If you were gonna lose anyway, who cares.

But sloads does singlehandedly change fight outcomes. It enables bad players. If there were other options the bad players could also use, it wouldn’t be so bad.

But there aren’t other options. There is only sloads.

And that is why it is overpowered compared to other sets.

Now if ZOS buffed all the other proc dmg sets (viper, sheer venom, way of fire lol, affliction, poisonous serpent, etc) then sure, sloads wouldn’t be overperforming.

But sloads is in a league of its own and has no viable comparison. It is singlehandedly changing the outcome of fights. That is the DEFINITION of overperforming.

Well it wouldn't be keeping them alive as much as you dying.

And literally meant being hit. Sload only procs on damage right? (10% chance) so for me to have 5 different procs (or even 2...) I would be taking damage from 10+ effects to proc em.

That 10+ different damage sources should kill me, the only reason it wouldn't is I'm like a healthden - which I do not run.

I dunno any players that are so bad that they can land 10+ attacks and not kill someone

Thogard · June 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

New food + TK = no sload

Maybe 1 sload, but what if you have 5 of them stacked on you?

If I'm being hit by 5 players, I'm pretty confident I'm dead.

generalmyrick wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

New food + TK = no sload

Maybe 1 sload, but what if you have 5 of them stacked on you?

If I'm being hit by 5 players, I'm pretty confident I'm dead.

There has to be a reason people dont want to see your point..

If the only thing keeping 5 bad players alive against one good player is sloads, then sloads is OP. No single set should determine the outcome of ANY fight like that.

If you were gonna lose anyway, who cares.

But sloads does singlehandedly change fight outcomes. It enables bad players. If there were other options the bad players could also use, it wouldn’t be so bad.

But there aren’t other options. There is only sloads.

And that is why it is overpowered compared to other sets.

Now if ZOS buffed all the other proc dmg sets (viper, sheer venom, way of fire lol, affliction, poisonous serpent, etc) then sure, sloads wouldn’t be overperforming.

But sloads is in a league of its own and has no viable comparison. It is singlehandedly changing the outcome of fights. That is the DEFINITION of overperforming.

Well it wouldn't be keeping them alive as much as you dying.

And literally meant being hit. Sload only procs on damage right? (10% chance) so for me to have 5 different procs (or even 2...) I would be taking damage from 10+ effects to proc em.

That 10+ different damage sources should kill me, the only reason it wouldn't is I'm like a healthden - which I do not run.

I dunno any players that are so bad that they can land 10+ attacks and not kill someone

I love you man but sometimes I wonder if we’re playing the same game.

On my DK. Let’s say I have already used volatile armor and venomous claw against an opponent. Then I use rending slashes. Let’s count the hits inside of one second:

1. Volatile armor dot
2. Volatile armor dmg return
3. Venomous claw
4. DW light attack
5. Wep enchant proc 1
6. Rending slashes main hit
7. Rending slashes offhand hit
8. Wep enchant proc 2
9. Rending slashes dot first tic

Throw on a few more dots, may r a burning or poisoned status effect, or actual poisons, or bleeds, and you literally have 100% uptime on sloads

Gilvoth · June 2018

if you are trying to fight groups of people solo and by yourself and thinking you are bruce lee then you die, that has nothing to do with sloads.
it doesnt matter what thier wearing. you will die because you are fighting a group solo, your chances of death is incredibly increased.

exeeter702 · June 2018

Thogard wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

New food + TK = no sload

Maybe 1 sload, but what if you have 5 of them stacked on you?

If I'm being hit by 5 players, I'm pretty confident I'm dead.

generalmyrick wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

New food + TK = no sload

Maybe 1 sload, but what if you have 5 of them stacked on you?

If I'm being hit by 5 players, I'm pretty confident I'm dead.

There has to be a reason people dont want to see your point..

Let’s clear up one thing real quick:

Whether or not five players should be killable by one player is a SEPARATE ISSUE from whether or not sloads is OP.

If the only thing keeping 5 bad players alive against one good player is sloads, and no other set in its place would lead to that same outcome, then sloads is OP. No single set should determine the outcome of ANY fight like that.

If you were gonna lose anyway, who cares. Doesn’t matter. Win anyway? No big deal. Same performance either way.

But sloads DOES singlehandedly change fight outcomes. It enables bad players by a significantly larger margin than any other set. If there were other options the bad players could also use, it wouldn’t be overperforming because it would be performing the same as those other sets.. that’s what that word means lol.

But there aren’t other options. There is only sloads.

And that is why it is overpowered compared to other sets.

Now if ZOS buffed all the other proc dmg sets (viper, sheer venom, way of fire lol, affliction, poisonous serpent, etc) and left sloads alone, then sure, sloads wouldn’t be overperforming.

But at present, sloads is in a league of its own and has no viable comparison. It is singlehandedly changing the outcome of fights. That is the DEFINITION of overperforming.

Yes but the response was for the other way around. The comment was regarding 5 sloads on a target and how one suggested and reliable defense against sload is invalidated when mutliple sloads are on you. Of which the rebuttal was that 5 players on you often presents lethal regardless of what setup said players are running.

Yes, sloads on an individual basis creates an opportunity for a less experienced player to come out on top vs a better player who happens to not have a specific answer dedicated to dealing with it. That type of razors edge balance design is not ideal imo. But the stacking sloads argument against setups that can counter 1 or 2 instances of slaods doesnt really hold that much water imo.

Frankly, im indifferent to the set, my setup inherententy counters it and my presence on a team or small scale group generally negates its effectiveness. I realize there is some bias in that viewpoint but whatever.

Thogard · June 2018

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

if you are trying to fight groups of people solo and by yourself and thinking you are bruce lee then you die, that has nothing to do with sloads.
it doesnt matter what thier wearing. you will die because you are fighting a group solo, your chances of death is incredibly increased.

Sure. And that’s why sloads needs to be nerfed... because it’s just as strong, if not stronger, in 1v1 situations.

Gilvoth · June 2018

Thogard wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

if you are trying to fight groups of people solo and by yourself and thinking you are bruce lee then you die, that has nothing to do with sloads.
it doesnt matter what thier wearing. you will die because you are fighting a group solo, your chances of death is incredibly increased.

Sure. And that’s why sloads needs to be nerfed... because it’s just as strong, if not stronger, in 1v1 situations.

ok ill bite, i dont understand what your saying because, when people try gank me with like, lets say ...

Molag Kena
(1 items) Adds 1096 Max Stamina
(2 items) When you deal direct melee damage, you have a 15% chance to call on a primal spirit that mauls the closest enemy in front of you for 12000 Physical Damage. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds.

they hit me alot harder than sloads set.

Way Harder with molag kena, and i come very close to death especially when they use ultimate combined with heavy hit and also another skill mixed in there im left at like 8% health and i dodge roll out and small heal and a pot and i can barely make it but i made it and survived. (just barely)
i have had that happen to me enough that i am able to survive those because i changed my build.

but sloads?

lets take a look.

sload set
Sload’s Semblance
LEVEL 50 - CP 160
Type Craftable
Set bonus
(2 items) 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) 1096 Maximum Stamina
(4 items) 129 Spell Damage - 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) Damaging an enemy has a 10% chance to put a Leeching Shadow on them, dealing 853 Oblivion Damage every 1 second for 6 seconds. This effect can occur every 6 seconds.

according to you this is hitting Harder? how?
1 guy hit me with this, i purged and escaped but was not even that hard.
the only time i have had a problem was if Several sloads was on me. then is really hard to purge them all and in addition they are attacking me also with ultimes and other skills? no, im dead
but i only died because was multip[le attacks from several people.

1 person alone hitting me with sloads is more than survivable. infact hes a dead man if i catch him.

so how is sloads set "And that’s why sloads needs to be nerfed... because it’s just as strong, if not stronger, in 1v1 situations." as you claim now, knowing this that i just explained worse?

thankyourat · June 2018

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Heavy Armor is in all ways inferior unless you’re PVE tanking (even then you can get better sustain and defended through set combos). Dodge roll/ Dodge and Shields will mitigate far more. Nothing beats raw avoidance of damage and/ or effects.

They really need to making tanking and heavy armor worth something again.

Heavy armor is by far the best armor choice for PvP for everything except magsorc. You can't avoid all damage sooner or later you are going to need to take some hits especially if you are solo. Light and medium may be best for group play when you have dedicated supports to keep you alive, but for solo play you are doing yourself a disservice by not going heavy.

grannas211 · June 2018

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Heavy Armor is in all ways inferior unless you’re PVE tanking (even then you can get better sustain and defended through set combos). Dodge roll/ Dodge and Shields will mitigate far more. Nothing beats raw avoidance of damage and/ or effects.

They really need to making tanking and heavy armor worth something again.

Ok now I'm convinced the PVP section of this forum is just people trolling for the heck of it. I've read too many troll posts in the past hour that make me wish for the LOL button.

generalmyrick · June 2018

@Thogard

Whether or not five players should be killable by one player is a SEPARATE ISSUE from whether or not sloads is OP.

NOT A SEPERATE ISSUE = the point is made that facing 5 people should result in your death.

If the only thing keeping 5 bad players alive against one good player is sloads, and no other set in its place would lead to that same outcome, then sloads is OP. No single set should determine the outcome of ANY fight like that.

im having trouble understanding this, if 5 people wear sloads and that keeps them alive then sloads is op? confused...what if i wore dog *** and streaked away? what if 5 players just walked around with permablock builds? what if 5 NBs just *** perma stunned you and cloaked in front of you? I COULD GO ON FOREVER in this game --- are those skills/classes/builds op?

If you were gonna lose anyway, who cares. Doesn’t matter. Win anyway? No big deal. Same performance either way. sure.

But sloads DOES singlehandedly change fight outcomes. It enables bad players by a significantly larger margin than any other set. If there were other options the bad players could also use, it wouldn’t be overperforming because it would be performing the same as those other sets.. that’s what that word means lol. (be nice.)

how do bad players pick out an effective set?--doesn't make sense...bad players make bad decisions. i like the way you id that its really the only option for "bad players." can you define a bad player? for instance...im curious--if a good player puts this set on...do they become a bad player? is it possible good players are using this effectively? or is it that ALL GOOD PLAYERS PLAY EXACTLY THE SAME and there is no way they'd use sloads. further, do all bad players use sloads...or only some? help me here.

But there aren’t other options. There is only sloads.

see above--again this seems rather hyperbolic...im sure you'll educate me respectfully without insulting me.

And that is why it is overpowered compared to other sets.

Now if ZOS buffed all the other proc dmg sets (viper, sheer venom, way of fire lol, affliction, poisonous serpent, etc) and left sloads alone, then sure, sloads wouldn’t be overperforming.

that's just the thing...why is this set here? why after the endless complaining did they not nerf it? you have some insight they don't?

But at present, sloads is in a league of its own and has no viable comparison. It is singlehandedly changing the outcome of fights. That is the DEFINITION of overperforming.

more confusing = good players have tried it and said it sucks...so...eh...

[/quote]

Gilvoth · June 2018

grannas211 wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Heavy Armor is in all ways inferior unless you’re PVE tanking (even then you can get better sustain and defended through set combos). Dodge roll/ Dodge and Shields will mitigate far more. Nothing beats raw avoidance of damage and/ or effects.

They really need to making tanking and heavy armor worth something again.

Ok now I'm convinced the PVP section of this forum is just people trolling for the heck of it. I've read too many troll posts in the past hour that make me wish for the LOL button.

what?
if people disagree with you does not mean they are troll nor trolling, their trying to tell you ways they survived. and trying to explain thier beliefs does not mean they troll.
its just our opinion, our beliefs, our testimony. not meant to troll nor sound troll like.
just honest opinions.

exeeter702 · June 2018

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

if you are trying to fight groups of people solo and by yourself and thinking you are bruce lee then you die, that has nothing to do with sloads.
it doesnt matter what thier wearing. you will die because you are fighting a group solo, your chances of death is incredibly increased.

Sure. And that’s why sloads needs to be nerfed... because it’s just as strong, if not stronger, in 1v1 situations.

ok ill bite, i dont understand what your saying because, when people try gank me with like, lets say ...

Molag Kena
(1 items) Adds 1096 Max Stamina
(2 items) When you deal direct melee damage, you have a 15% chance to call on a primal spirit that mauls the closest enemy in front of you for 12000 Physical Damage. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds.

they hit me alot harder than sloads set.

Way Harder with molag kena, and i come very close to death especially when they use ultimate combined with heavy hit and also another skill mixed in there im left at like 8% health and i dodge roll out and small heal and a pot and i can barely make it but i made it and survived. (just barely)
i have had that happen to me enough that i am able to survive those because i changed my build.

but sloads?

lets take a look.

sload set
Sload’s Semblance
LEVEL 50 - CP 160
Type Craftable
Set bonus
(2 items) 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) 1096 Maximum Stamina
(4 items) 129 Spell Damage - 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) Damaging an enemy has a 10% chance to put a Leeching Shadow on them, dealing 853 Oblivion Damage every 1 second for 6 seconds. This effect can occur every 6 seconds.

according to you this is hitting Harder? how?
1 guy hit me with this, i purged and escaped but was not even that hard.
the only time i have had a problem was if Several sloads was on me. then is really hard to purge them all and in addition they are attacking me also with ultimes and other skills? no, im dead
but i only died because was multip[le attacks from several people.

1 person alone hitting me with sloads is more than survivable. infact hes a dead man if i catch him.

so how is sloads set "And that’s why sloads needs to be nerfed... because it’s just as strong, if not stronger, in 1v1 situations." as you claim now, knowing this that i just explained worse?

That is Selenes, not molag kena.

Buf the point is the way sloads is applied and of what type of damage it is. Selenes, like any other raw proc burst damage is not the same issue as with sloads. Aside from the fact it is (now) telegraphed and melee range, it is mitigated by all forms of defense both passive and active that effects its damage type including actively blocking.

Sloads applies itself almost for free from the user,applied from any range and again as has been mentioned countless times, its damage is uneffected by any form of mitigation baring healing or amplified health regen. Its more oppresive because of this, especially when you have minor and major defile everywhere in unison.