Question: Why is Rune Prison a 5 second long stun?

josiahva

Marto wrote: »

Honest question. Wish I had anything more to add to the thread, but that really is all there is to it.

Why?

What is the logic and train of thought that lead towards one of the most powerful abilities in the game for one of the most powerful classes in the game to have its effectiveness doubled, despite the fact it was already superior in any conceivable way from other stuns?

Feel free to play devil's advocate in the comments. Because I sure as hell can't think of a way to justify it.

If any developers could also explain this decision, I would appreciate it as well.

What? A complaint about an ability that just might actually be overpowered as opposed to some low-damage flavor of the month set? Impossible! I am not saying rune prison actually is overpowered....but it certainly is the strongest hard CC in the game. Has more range and duration than the closest runner up by far: Fossilize, while other classes are stuck with the option of shock clench...just meh compared to rune prison

Biro123

VexingArcanist wrote: »

Syncronaut wrote: »

I havent seen many people use it offensive at all. They mostly use Defensive rune.

Super anoying then you do a stealth attack as nightblade.

Sometimes break free just wont work and it can backfire pretty badly.

Then you don't pvp. Seriously, how can you even make such a claim? Rune Cage ALL DAY LONG.

bottleofsyrup wrote: »

Still not as bad as the unbreakable Psijic CC.

Normally you have plenty of time to get out of the field before the stun goes off. I realize there can be interactions that inhibit your ability to get out in time, but with Rune Cage you often don't even see it coming.

Never seen a group spam this to cover a wide area? And the unbreakable..!! with a nasty snare leading up to it. It's nasty when used well. Very nasty.

thestud2012

Biro123 wrote: »

thestud2012 wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Stun is the least of the issues with this ability.

How about the fact it has around 20% higher base tooltip damage than Destructive Reach, a blockable/dodgeable/reflectable/cloakable stun from destro staff?

Or that it's cheaper than Destructive Reach as well?


The skill is just overtuned no matter how you view it.

But then you could view it differently.. Reach benefits from 10% penetration from destro passives, can apply burning, returns mag if it kills, procs glyphs, also has a dot component (which in itself is useful for proccing a ton of stuff - like sloads, surge etc), just slotting it gives 8% more damage to everything - and not to mention what Master Staff does to it (which most reach builds use)..

I still think cage is better (I did pre-summerset) without masters - but then class skills imo should generally be stronger than weapon skills - but as usual, you are over-egging the difference :-) I'm convinced your 10k tooltip posts are what convinced so many people to start running it this patch...

Slotting gives 8% more damage to everything? What did I miss?

Ancient knowledge passive on destro line. With sorcs struggle for bar-space, a reason reach became popular was to fill the slot as both cc and spammable while also fulfilling that 'slotted destro ability' requirement.

I've often found it difficult to even slot a single destro ability, and if not for the light attack buffs and weapons giving 2 set bonuses this patch, I'd still be using DW for it's 5% with no skill-slotting requirement.

I wondered if that was the passive you were referencing. Heads up - you don't need to slot a destro skill anymore. Just wield a destro staff. Changed by Summerset. I don't use destro skills anymore.

EDIT: In case someone sees this later - the Gamepad UI does not show the requirement that you need to slot an ability. I tested slotting and unslotting an ability and saw a change in tooltip values, so it looks like you DO need to slot an ability. Bit by the Gamepad UI again

WrathOfInnos

thestud2012 wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

thestud2012 wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Stun is the least of the issues with this ability.

How about the fact it has around 20% higher base tooltip damage than Destructive Reach, a blockable/dodgeable/reflectable/cloakable stun from destro staff?

Or that it's cheaper than Destructive Reach as well?


The skill is just overtuned no matter how you view it.

But then you could view it differently.. Reach benefits from 10% penetration from destro passives, can apply burning, returns mag if it kills, procs glyphs, also has a dot component (which in itself is useful for proccing a ton of stuff - like sloads, surge etc), just slotting it gives 8% more damage to everything - and not to mention what Master Staff does to it (which most reach builds use)..

I still think cage is better (I did pre-summerset) without masters - but then class skills imo should generally be stronger than weapon skills - but as usual, you are over-egging the difference :-) I'm convinced your 10k tooltip posts are what convinced so many people to start running it this patch...

Slotting gives 8% more damage to everything? What did I miss?

Ancient knowledge passive on destro line. With sorcs struggle for bar-space, a reason reach became popular was to fill the slot as both cc and spammable while also fulfilling that 'slotted destro ability' requirement.

I've often found it difficult to even slot a single destro ability, and if not for the light attack buffs and weapons giving 2 set bonuses this patch, I'd still be using DW for it's 5% with no skill-slotting requirement.

I wondered if that was the passive you were referencing. Heads up - you don't need to slot a destro skill anymore. Just wield a destro staff. Changed by Summerset. I don't use destro skills anymore.

@thestud2012 Really? Not near my PC to check, but this would be great. Is it intended? I did not see anything about this in the patch notes. Did the Ancient Knowledge tooltip change to reflect this? Can anyone confirm?

s7732425ub17_ESO

It doesn't matter how long a stun is. If you do not have the stamina to break out of any stun, you should be dead. If you are not killed, it's solely the fault of the attacker. Stop trying to act like 5 seconds is a big deal.

Shadowmaster

nemvar wrote: »

Just revert crystal frag and rune cage. Nobody with a brain asked for this.

just a buff for the sorc players to get stream views up before the twitch stuff lol

DenMoria

Because it's a "Prison", not a "Pit Stop".

Marto wrote: »

Honest question. Wish I had anything more to add to the thread, but that really is all there is to it.

Why?

What is the logic and train of thought that lead towards one of the most powerful abilities in the game for one of the most powerful classes in the game to have its effectiveness doubled, despite the fact it was already superior in any conceivable way from other stuns?

Feel free to play devil's advocate in the comments. Because I sure as hell can't think of a way to justify it.

If any developers could also explain this decision, I would appreciate it as well.

thestud2012

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

thestud2012 wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

thestud2012 wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Stun is the least of the issues with this ability.

How about the fact it has around 20% higher base tooltip damage than Destructive Reach, a blockable/dodgeable/reflectable/cloakable stun from destro staff?

Or that it's cheaper than Destructive Reach as well?


The skill is just overtuned no matter how you view it.

But then you could view it differently.. Reach benefits from 10% penetration from destro passives, can apply burning, returns mag if it kills, procs glyphs, also has a dot component (which in itself is useful for proccing a ton of stuff - like sloads, surge etc), just slotting it gives 8% more damage to everything - and not to mention what Master Staff does to it (which most reach builds use)..

I still think cage is better (I did pre-summerset) without masters - but then class skills imo should generally be stronger than weapon skills - but as usual, you are over-egging the difference :-) I'm convinced your 10k tooltip posts are what convinced so many people to start running it this patch...

Slotting gives 8% more damage to everything? What did I miss?

Ancient knowledge passive on destro line. With sorcs struggle for bar-space, a reason reach became popular was to fill the slot as both cc and spammable while also fulfilling that 'slotted destro ability' requirement.

I've often found it difficult to even slot a single destro ability, and if not for the light attack buffs and weapons giving 2 set bonuses this patch, I'd still be using DW for it's 5% with no skill-slotting requirement.

I wondered if that was the passive you were referencing. Heads up - you don't need to slot a destro skill anymore. Just wield a destro staff. Changed by Summerset. I don't use destro skills anymore.

@thestud2012 Really? Not near my PC to check, but this would be great. Is it intended? I did not see anything about this in the patch notes. Did the Ancient Knowledge tooltip change to reflect this? Can anyone confirm?

I can't get this to show up in the post. I guess because it doesn't end with an image extension? I'm assuming the change was intentional and it was missed in the patch notes.

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/922557146023183593/864CFF4E13B7D2EDAE3096976A9B6688CFE66756/

ak_pvp

Well they saw DK had a cool ability, then buffed it like hell and gave it to sorcs, not surprised.

DuskMarine

5 second stun hit break free out of it in 1 or 2. doesnt sound bad to me to be honest.

JasonSilverSpring

thestud2012 wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

thestud2012 wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

thestud2012 wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Stun is the least of the issues with this ability.

How about the fact it has around 20% higher base tooltip damage than Destructive Reach, a blockable/dodgeable/reflectable/cloakable stun from destro staff?

Or that it's cheaper than Destructive Reach as well?


The skill is just overtuned no matter how you view it.

But then you could view it differently.. Reach benefits from 10% penetration from destro passives, can apply burning, returns mag if it kills, procs glyphs, also has a dot component (which in itself is useful for proccing a ton of stuff - like sloads, surge etc), just slotting it gives 8% more damage to everything - and not to mention what Master Staff does to it (which most reach builds use)..

I still think cage is better (I did pre-summerset) without masters - but then class skills imo should generally be stronger than weapon skills - but as usual, you are over-egging the difference :-) I'm convinced your 10k tooltip posts are what convinced so many people to start running it this patch...

Slotting gives 8% more damage to everything? What did I miss?

Ancient knowledge passive on destro line. With sorcs struggle for bar-space, a reason reach became popular was to fill the slot as both cc and spammable while also fulfilling that 'slotted destro ability' requirement.

I've often found it difficult to even slot a single destro ability, and if not for the light attack buffs and weapons giving 2 set bonuses this patch, I'd still be using DW for it's 5% with no skill-slotting requirement.

I wondered if that was the passive you were referencing. Heads up - you don't need to slot a destro skill anymore. Just wield a destro staff. Changed by Summerset. I don't use destro skills anymore.

@thestud2012 Really? Not near my PC to check, but this would be great. Is it intended? I did not see anything about this in the patch notes. Did the Ancient Knowledge tooltip change to reflect this? Can anyone confirm?

I can't get this to show up in the post. I guess because it doesn't end with an image extension? I'm assuming the change was intentional and it was missed in the patch notes.

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/922557146023183593/864CFF4E13B7D2EDAE3096976A9B6688CFE66756/

Odd, for me on PC NA, I still see the requirement for a destruction staff ability. Is it perhaps displayed if you scroll down?

WillhelmBlack

Why is it unbreakable?

That should be the question.

Shokasegambit1

Look im cotton pickin tired of this ! If I die to something i need it nerfed asap ! And clearly its over preforming and cheap, ultimately this will take my reputation of being a good player away from the community of players I never met in real life.

If I kill somebody surely it was my professional Esports skills that did it and obviously it's a l2p issue with them. Clearly I'm the best player in the world. Hahahaha

Koolio

ak_pvp wrote: »

Well they saw DK had a cool ability, then buffed it like hell and gave it to sorcs, not surprised.

You mean Malefic Wreath?

Marto

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

Look im cotton pickin tired of this ! If I die to something i need it nerfed asap ! And clearly its over preforming and cheap, ultimately this will take my reputation of being a good player away from the community of players I never met in real life.

If I kill somebody surely it was my professional Esports skills that did it and obviously it's a l2p issue with them. Clearly I'm the best player in the world. Hahahaha

It honestly baffles me that people defend it with "Hurr durr you always want stuff nerfed because you die to it!". Not just from you, but many others in the thread.

Why are you incapable of looking at things objectively? Rune Prison being the longest stun in the entire game is a fact. Rune Prison being one of the longest ranged skills in the game is a fact. Rune prison being cheap compared to similar ranged attacks is a fact.

In your mind, what should decide if something should be nerfed or buffed? It bafles me you cannot see how Rune Prison is unbalanced.

frostz417

Rune cage is the most broken cc in the game. Anyone who disagrees is clearly a sorc fanboy who doesn’t want their precious build to be destroyed. Let’s be logical here for a second. An unblockable undodgeable cc which is able to be spammed if the enemy is using immov pots so that it’s a guarantee they’re cc’d. This ability is absolute cheese in duels since it takes no skill to spam rune cage, ice comet, then excecute. In no cp battlegrounds it’s even worse for mag since you have little stam, so it’ll take 50% of your stam. Not to mention you’ll likely be dead if you get focused since you get cc’d And it takes about 2 seconds to break free by that time you’re probsbly bursted down. I don’t care to hear any magsorc fanboys cry about how it’s not broken. Magsorc is the most powerful class this patch no argument. Constant shield stacking with broken rune cage cc and insane damage output. Those who try to justify saying how magDK’s have petrify. That ability has a small range so they must be up close to cast the ability. Rune cage has a large range making it able to be casted to anyone on a large range constantly. This ability is clearly broken and needs a nerf, along with magsorcs with the eternal shield stacking 3793482848 different shields and never die. Don’t say “l2p” because if you do any form of PvP you’ll clearly see just how broken Msorc is this patch.

Blobsky

Runecage is basically MagSorc Incap without defile but non ulti

Waffennacht

CC length is moot in PvP as you/they CC break on cool down

If it wasn't for this meta cage would be OP

Strider__Roshin

Lol Rune Cage is broken OP but it's not because of the stun duration.

JamieAubrey

Question: Why is Rune Prison a 5 second long stun?

What I saw #NERFSORCS

Lord-Otto

ak_pvp wrote: »

Well they saw DK had a cool ability, then buffed it like hell and gave it to sorcs, not surprised.

Okay, let's end this.

Rune Cage IS NOT Fossilize. Fossilize also ROOTS, a significant advantage.

The nerf to Fossilize range was a bit unnecessary, IMO. But when it lands, it works perfectly in tandem with all the stamina pressure DKs have.

frostz417

Blobsky wrote: »

Runecage is basically MagSorc Incap without defile but non ulti

Nope. It’s even more OP
You can dodge/block incap, incap is melee, rune cage has 28 meter range. This ability is honestly broken.

TheShadowScout

Marto wrote: »

Question: Why is Rune Prison a 5 second long stun?

Answer: Because the developers thought it balanced. Duh.

They might have been a bit wrong... but if so, they will see people making the comparisons, and nerf it again eventualls. As all things get nerfed if they proove better in practice then the developers thought. Well, either that or something else gets buffed to become comparable...

rumple9

Is rune prison better than time stop

ak_pvp

Koolio wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Well they saw DK had a cool ability, then buffed it like hell and gave it to sorcs, not surprised.

You mean Malefic Wreath?

Lord-Otto wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Well they saw DK had a cool ability, then buffed it like hell and gave it to sorcs, not surprised.

Okay, let's end this.

Rune Cage IS NOT Fossilize. Fossilize also ROOTS, a significant advantage.

The nerf to Fossilize range was a bit unnecessary, IMO. But when it lands, it works perfectly in tandem with all the stamina pressure DKs have.

Rune cage is literally petrify reskinned and buffed to hell. We saw that from the death recaps.

The root from fossilize is cool, but lets be real everyone would trade that for 28m range and extra damage, talons exists.

Gprime31

nemvar wrote: »

Just revert crystal frag and rune cage. Nobody with a brain asked for this.

Agreed but take away the insta proc, or give every other skill one.

thestud2012

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

thestud2012 wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

thestud2012 wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Stun is the least of the issues with this ability.

How about the fact it has around 20% higher base tooltip damage than Destructive Reach, a blockable/dodgeable/reflectable/cloakable stun from destro staff?

Or that it's cheaper than Destructive Reach as well?


The skill is just overtuned no matter how you view it.

But then you could view it differently.. Reach benefits from 10% penetration from destro passives, can apply burning, returns mag if it kills, procs glyphs, also has a dot component (which in itself is useful for proccing a ton of stuff - like sloads, surge etc), just slotting it gives 8% more damage to everything - and not to mention what Master Staff does to it (which most reach builds use)..

I still think cage is better (I did pre-summerset) without masters - but then class skills imo should generally be stronger than weapon skills - but as usual, you are over-egging the difference :-) I'm convinced your 10k tooltip posts are what convinced so many people to start running it this patch...

Slotting gives 8% more damage to everything? What did I miss?

Ancient knowledge passive on destro line. With sorcs struggle for bar-space, a reason reach became popular was to fill the slot as both cc and spammable while also fulfilling that 'slotted destro ability' requirement.

I've often found it difficult to even slot a single destro ability, and if not for the light attack buffs and weapons giving 2 set bonuses this patch, I'd still be using DW for it's 5% with no skill-slotting requirement.

I wondered if that was the passive you were referencing. Heads up - you don't need to slot a destro skill anymore. Just wield a destro staff. Changed by Summerset. I don't use destro skills anymore.

@thestud2012 Really? Not near my PC to check, but this would be great. Is it intended? I did not see anything about this in the patch notes. Did the Ancient Knowledge tooltip change to reflect this? Can anyone confirm?

@WrathOfInnos @JasonSilverSpring

In case someone sees this later - the Gamepad UI does not show the requirement that you need to slot an ability. I tested slotting and unslotting an ability and saw a change in tooltip values, so it looks like you DO need to slot an ability. Bit by the Gamepad UI again

Olupajmibanan

I feel like Rune cage should have it's damage component removed and the stun duration reduced to 2 seconds.

A combo-reliant class needs way to break opponents defenses. But 2 seconds stun should be opportunity window big enough to land the combo and also it is not too long so it couldn't be used a hard CC. If you miss your opportunity window, you have to wait 8 seconds of CC immunity.

That's my image of Rune Cage. A one-time use combo-opener that can't be used other way thanks to short stun. It would be also very predictable so opponent can prepare for the combo - wings, absorbs, resto ult etc.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

If shortening the duration of the stun would satisfy the nerf sorc crowd, have at it. If you stay in a hard CC longer than about 1.5 seconds, you are dead anyway.

MLGProPlayer

Good thing they got rid of the warden's delayed stun that could also be dodged and blocked because if was too OP.