Skill bar limits

TheMessengerOfDeath

Just curious of new MMO games approach of skill bars. Coming from most older mmo games we had skill bars endless amount even but with the newer games they like to limit our skills. Say what you want but it's nothing more than another way to easily and lazy way to balance the game. It's started a trend with 9 skills on a bar and with the newer mmo we get less and less. What kind of mmo games are we prepared for in the near future ? Maybe just 3 skills the entire game ? Hmmm

Joker99

You have to remember that first this game is released on PS4 and XBone too, you can’t play mmos that have 20 skills on 2 bars on console, and second, you actually have two bars where you can have a different weapon unlike other mmos making for a potentially much more dynamic type of gameplay, in most mmos you need so many skills mostly for buffs that stay active for hours, the amount of skills that are actually being used in combat is drastically lower. On a side note, eso doesn’t have cooldowns on skills hence the need for less skills overall, typically you need more skills to make a rotation in other games because skills go on cooldown, but that’s not the case here.

NightbladeMechanics

Limiting bar space forces you to make decisions and incur tradeoffs between different builds and increases build diversity within classes. You can't have every tool at your disposal in any given fight.

Slick_007

back in my day we had 80 skills on action bars that went along the bottom and both sides of the screen. you had to factor into the cast time, the length of time it took you to find the ability.

Hasenpfote

Joker99 wrote: »

You have to remember that first this game is released on PS4 and XBone too, you can’t play mmos that have 20 skills on 2 bars on console, and second, you actually have two bars where you can have a different weapon unlike other mmos making for a potentially much more dynamic type of gameplay, in most mmos you need so many skills mostly for buffs that stay active for hours, the amount of skills that are actually being used in combat is drastically lower. On a side note, eso doesn’t have cooldowns on skills hence the need for less skills overall, typically you need more skills to make a rotation in other games because skills go on cooldown, but that’s not the case here.

Final Fantasy 14 shows, that it is possible and even PC and Console playing together, the point is not made in ESO is to allow Addons for ESO and the game is balanced around, that you have at most 12 Skills slotted.

Avran_Sylt

It’s all a numbers game.

I’d rather have a smaller list of commands more easily memorized in rotation than macroing 40 skills to do the same thing, just with more theorycrafting for the given meta.

It makes it more accessible, and less time consuming.

There is an argument that it makes the game easy, and it does in a way. But I'd rather have more difficult combat as a result of boss interactions and enemy AI than it being more difficult because of more skill interactions to keep track of.

Aurie

I'm happy with the concept of limiting skills on each bar. But I've always thought that five skills is one short of optimum.

Please @ZOS just increase it to six please.

BaneOfBattler

go play wow then

THEDKEXPERIENCE

If we had more skills available the game would be a bit of a mess in Cyrodiil. At least now, if someone is gonna use a new skill like Time Freeze they have to lose something else. You cannot make a perfect character now which is fine.

LiquidPony

Joker99 wrote: »

You have to remember that first this game is released on PS4 and XBone too, you can’t play mmos that have 20 skills on 2 bars on console, and second, you actually have two bars where you can have a different weapon unlike other mmos making for a potentially much more dynamic type of gameplay, in most mmos you need so many skills mostly for buffs that stay active for hours, the amount of skills that are actually being used in combat is drastically lower. On a side note, eso doesn’t have cooldowns on skills hence the need for less skills overall, typically you need more skills to make a rotation in other games because skills go on cooldown, but that’s not the case here.

People always say this, but it's not like there's no possible way to enable more skills on console. For instance in Tera's UI, you press some other button to activate secondary skills (e.g., A = Rending Slashes, LT + A = Deadly Cloak, or something like that). FFXIV also allows you to bind dozens of skills using a controller.

Part of the combat balance in ESO is based on limiting the number of skills you can slot. This is an intentional combat design choice, not an artificial limit of the console UI.

Krayl

The old-school MMO player in me took a while to come around but I like the skill sytem as it is now in ESO. Even when you had access to like 80 skills, you really only used so many routinely in a rotation. The rest were on your bar for situational purposes. It's no different now, it just means you have to prepare for those situations by dropping another skill on your bar before a fight starts.

Personally I just wish they would allow you to buy both morphs of a skill, and have gear loadouts. DK is my fave class so I have 5 max level DKS, three are the same race, all diff roles. I would love it if i could play one char and swap my gear and skills for any role. But they prob make too much money selling wackjobs like myself char slots and xp scrolls.

Dimski

Do you really want 4 skill bars with 12 buttons each like Everquest 2 or SWTOR? Remember, there's only a couple of button push sequences that produce a near-optimal result. Keeping it limited to 2x5 is a relief.

Itacira

edmt0001_ESO wrote: »

Do you really want 4 skill bars with 12 buttons each like Everquest 2 or SWTOR? Remember, there's only a couple of button push sequences that produce a near-optimal result. Keeping it limited to 2x5 is a relief.

Yes !

More seriously : I find it greatly annoying that I have to KNOW the kind of fight I'm getting into and slot the appropriate skills (especially since without add ons skills switching is a PAIN in the neck since you can't save a build). It ruins the roleplay factor to me. How is my character supposed to know beforehand ? I actually really liked having that situational skill bar available. True skill meant reacting to the fight, remembering that you had x skill that could really help the situation, not finding oneself going "GDI I SHOULD HAVE SLOTTED X SKILL ARGH"

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Itacira wrote: »

edmt0001_ESO wrote: »

Do you really want 4 skill bars with 12 buttons each like Everquest 2 or SWTOR? Remember, there's only a couple of button push sequences that produce a near-optimal result. Keeping it limited to 2x5 is a relief.

Yes !

More seriously : I find it greatly annoying that I have to KNOW the kind of fight I'm getting into and slot the appropriate skills (especially since without add ons skills switching is a PAIN in the neck since you can't save a build). It ruins the roleplay factor to me. How is my character supposed to know beforehand ? I actually really liked having that situational skill bar available. True skill meant reacting to the fight, remembering that you had x skill that could really help the situation, not finding oneself going "GDI I SHOULD HAVE SLOTTED X SKILL ARGH"

To PVP successfully you must be like Batman. If something is kicking your butt on a regular basis you need to have something available to counter it at all times.

My set up ...

Bar 1

Shield
Execute
Spamable Close Attack
Nightblade Finder
Skill That Makes Every Other Skill Better
Ranged Ultimate to deal with far away attackers as I am dealing with close attackers

Bar 2
Heal
Root
Multi Person Ranged Attack
Rapids
STMEOSB again
Powerful close range ultimate to deal with close attackers as I am focused on ranged attackers

I also have 2 potions always ready. One that lets me go invisible instantly and another that provides all my pertinent resources and immovable.

With the exception of rapids I can take my build into Cyrodiil or a dungeon and do it at no worse than a B+ level.

Long story short, I cannot think of a PVP situation I would not be at least ready for if it came up. That’s way more important to me than simply doing 1 thing absolutely optimally.

idk

Slick_007 wrote: »

back in my day we had 80 skills on action bars that went along the bottom and both sides of the screen. you had to factor into the cast time, the length of time it took you to find the ability.

Even so there was still a rotation of specific skills used. Anything else was one off.

TheMessengerOfDeath

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Limiting bar space forces you to make decisions and incur tradeoffs between different builds and increases build diversity within classes. You can't have every tool at your disposal in any given fight.

While I see where your going with this but that doesn't happen in this game at all. 90% of all players I would bet money on it just copy and paste builds so less skills don't mean become creative when their is a build that's 90000x times stronger. I do see what your saying but no it doesn't work that way.

Sektion67

I like the combat in ESO, but I do think it's time for ZOS to take a look at the combat and find new ways to keep it exciting for long term players.

I've been playing a bit of WOW again, and I picked all of the passive skills to limit my actions bar to 12 skills on my Demon Hunter. But here's the thing, now that I'm super comfortable with the class, I can slowly add on more skills and switch things up. The option is there for me, which I love.

Joker99 wrote: »

You have to remember that first this game is released on PS4 and XBone too, you can’t play mmos that have 20 skills on 2 bars on console...

This same old line gets repeated endlessly, and it's not true. FFXIV does this. WOW has an addon that enables controller support, and it works extremely well.

Juju_beans

BaneOfBattler wrote: »

go play wow then

Even wow pruned down the skills to where you don't need an add-on with additional UI windows for all the skills.

I like ESO's approach better. Easier on my hands, don't have to create complex macros and don't need a 500 button mouse.