PVP: Why are we allowing really bad players to win with proc sets?

Nyladreas

I seriously want to know. This is still an ongoing issue and has always been.

Why are we letting seriously bad people who can't even predict the most simple basics of PVP win with their proc sets? And I don't mean guaranteed procs. I mean procs that are ranging from 5%-20% on hit/dot/heal whatever.

Doesn't this just scream bad design to you people? Does it just bother some of you when you see this happen? I was proud of becoming good at PVP only to realize that I actually barely stand a chance if I'm simply unlucky or get caught off guard by multiple procs from a single person. Heck, even if i beat them without much effort, it just feels so very wrong.

Is there even a point of running anything else? Is this how you, ZOS, promote diversity in PVP and your "play how you want" model? I really want to know some thoughts on this.

Not to mention there are leaderboards in the game which make absolutely 0 sense since it's either made up of A.) Coordinated Premades, B.) People who proc better than others (even if others use the same set - which is the saddest part).

I'm just not feeling it anymore. On top of that we have permablock tanks running Durok and Fasalla just to debuff everyone's healing into oblivion while the proc sets on others do their job.

I'm not even mad tbh, I'm just disappointed and bored. It's the same thing over and over, regardless of whether I win or lose a game. Perhaps it's time for me to quit and try a different game for a bit to get a "breath of fresh air".

Correct me if I'm wrong. I mean of course good players still can do much better with the same proc sets, I do as well (yes I joined the trainwreck myself), but it just feels so wrong and unrewarding. Unless all you care about is your epeen. Which is just terrible. People should have fun, not play the game to compensate.

This is not a game about skill anymore, rather a game of luck. Like your crown crate system ZOS.

Bam_Bam

Mate, these threads are pointless. I understand your annoyance. But another thread isn't going to do much. They've already said that they are looking at sloads.
In the meantime, just tweak your gear and/or tactics and adapt. Just like everyone else. Good hunting

rileynotzb14_ESO

From my experience ppl who complain about proc sets carrying bad players are also bad players themselves.

Nyladreas

rileynotzb14_ESO wrote: »

From my experience ppl who complain about proc sets carrying bad players are also bad players themselves.

Hey I'm not arguing with that. I'm far from being a really good player. It's the design and uninviting, boring gameplay I'm focusing on, rather than trying to look like I'm an *** pro. Besides that, I'm sure you know why I picked a title like that already.

I'd also like to know what truly defines a good player. I've seen all sorts of people do very well and very bad at the same time, depending on.....well....

Thogard

It's ok. The entire nightblade class in a no cp environment has allowed players with no skill to be relevant for a while now. You just kind of get used to it over time.

Sharee

Nyladreas wrote: »

I'd also like to know what truly defines a good player.

Good player: the one who has discovered the latest OP thing and is abusing the heck out of it (plus all possible gameplay mechanic loopholes) to fight and kill multiple enemies at once.

Bad player: the one who is wearing a set that's useless to the above player, but can be used to kill him while he is trying to fight multiple enemies at once.

And yes, the hypocrisy is thick.

hiyde

oops. mispost.

Gilvoth

over powered builds are the problem, not the armor not the weapons.
just need some nerfs made to certain builds, all that is needed.
this patch feels better and i believe every patch we see has been and will continue to be balance made.
eso is doing Great Job at balance.

i mean that sincerely, just being honest.

Vapirko

ZOS has mentioned a couple of times that they’re looking for ways to raise the floor and lower the ceiling. Proc damage sets are definitely a way to do that. Good players can definitely put them to use but typically are better served by running sets that increase stats, healing etc. unless they’re going for a straight cheese build. So if you’re looking for a reason as to why, then I’d say it’s exactly the reason your frustrated. It lets bad players do better. I don’t agree with it, and I think catering to that type of player simply promotes a poor PvP environment in the long run, but there you have it. I do beleive that’s ZOS reason for introducing such sets. Or at least part of it.

Drakkdjinn

Because proc sets sell DLCs, my friend.

WaltherCarraway

Sharee wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

I'd also like to know what truly defines a good player.

Good player: the one who has discovered the latest OP thing and is abusing the heck out of it (plus all possible gameplay mechanic loopholes) to fight and kill multiple enemies at once.

Bad player: the one who is wearing a set that's so-called RUNNING AP to the above player, but can be used to kill him while he is trying to fight multiple enemies at once.

And yes, the hypocrisy is thick.

Agree and fixed.

JobooAGS

Its a matter of having new players not constantly getting steam rolled all the time and therefore remain in the game. If someone comes into pvp, and gets steamrolled instantly, then they are less likely to continue playing. With proc sets, such new players will have a chance to compete aganist the better, more experienced players and therefore remain in the game therefore more revenue to the game. Similar to the grenade launcher (noob tube) from call of duty

There is a whole video on imperfect balance that explains this

Rianai

It is not like new players aren't getting steamrolled regardless. Procs can even make this worse.

OP procs don't make the game more friendly for new players (who often don't even have access to all those sets). It makes the game more friendly for players who can't or don't want to learn and improve their gameplay and instead prefer their gear to carry them.

eso_nya

Nyladreas wrote: »

I'd also like to know what truly defines a good player.

When defeated:
A good player adapts and overcomes.
A bad player tunes down the difficulty of the game. Or asks for the game to be made easier for him.

Maryal

eso_nya wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

I'd also like to know what truly defines a good player.

When defeated:
A good player adapts and overcomes.
A bad player tunes down the difficulty of the game. Or asks for the game to be made easier for him.

I agree.
Perhaps this would help explain all the 'let's nerf ....' threads/comments ... hmmm, something to think about.

Juhasow

Sharee wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

I'd also like to know what truly defines a good player.

Good player: the one who has discovered the latest OP thing and is abusing the heck out of it (plus all possible gameplay mechanic loopholes) to fight and kill multiple enemies at once.

Bad player: the one who is wearing a set that's useless to the above player, but can be used to kill him while he is trying to fight multiple enemies at once.

And yes, the hypocrisy is thick.

Which one You are ?

TheDoomsdayMonster

eso_nya wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

I'd also like to know what truly defines a good player.

When defeated:
A good player adapts and overcomes.
A bad player tunes down the difficulty of the game. Or asks for the game to be made easier for him.

That's exactly what many of those so called "good players" (bad players in disguise) are doing right now with their crying about Sloads:

"Oh man, I can't stream myself 1vX'ing hoards of players all at once...NERF SLOADS...its OP!!!"

Lol...

Lieblingsjunge

Stack 90k HP.

Watch the Sload's tickle. :^^^^^^^^^^

Or just don't play at all until it's been dealth with. That's my jam.

cazlonb16_ESO

Sharee wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

I'd also like to know what truly defines a good player.

Good player: the one who has discovered the latest OP thing and is abusing the heck out of it (plus all possible gameplay mechanic loopholes) to fight and kill multiple enemies at once.

Shushh ! Don't reveal the secret !! It's their mad skills only !!!!

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

Stack 90k HP.

Watch the Sload's tickle. :^^^^^^^^^^

Or just don't play at all until it's been dealth with. That's my jam.

Not a fan either, but do you really think Sload's is the worst balancing issue currently ? Between broken CC immunity, certain skills being higher priority than others and the entire defile fiasco...Really ? That is what made you quit ?

Minalan

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

over powered builds are the problem, not the armor not the weapons.
just need some nerfs made to certain builds, all that is needed.
this patch feels better and i believe every patch we see has been and will continue to be balance made.
eso is doing Great Job at balance.

i mean that sincerely, just being honest.

How often have you died now because sloads wouldn’t let you cloak?

You call that ‘skilled counterplay’?

Nemeliom

I play from Argentina with aprox 300 ping. If you remove every set ability and everyone has the exact same items, I would still be in a great disadvantage.
So as you can see, balance will never be 100% for all. I adapt with what I have and manage to kill way more than I die. I guess you should not complain too much.

Lexxypwns

Honestly, l2p issue. These sets need nerfed but they are also available to everyone and choosing not to use them if you feel they’re overperforming is a build decision you’ve made

amir412

Nyladreas wrote: »

I seriously want to know. This is still an ongoing issue and has always been.

Why are we letting seriously bad people who can't even predict the most simple basics of PVP win with their proc sets? And I don't mean guaranteed procs. I mean procs that are ranging from 5%-20% on hit/dot/heal whatever.

Doesn't this just scream bad design to you people? Does it just bother some of you when you see this happen? I was proud of becoming good at PVP only to realize that I actually barely stand a chance if I'm simply unlucky or get caught off guard by multiple procs from a single person. Heck, even if i beat them without much effort, it just feels so very wrong.

Is there even a point of running anything else? Is this how you, ZOS, promote diversity in PVP and your "play how you want" model? I really want to know some thoughts on this.

Not to mention there are leaderboards in the game which make absolutely 0 sense since it's either made up of A.) Coordinated Premades, B.) People who proc better than others (even if others use the same set - which is the saddest part).

I'm just not feeling it anymore. On top of that we have permablock tanks running Durok and Fasalla just to debuff everyone's healing into oblivion while the proc sets on others do their job.

I'm not even mad tbh, I'm just disappointed and bored. It's the same thing over and over, regardless of whether I win or lose a game. Perhaps it's time for me to quit and try a different game for a bit to get a "breath of fresh air".

Correct me if I'm wrong. I mean of course good players still can do much better with the same proc sets, I do as well (yes I joined the trainwreck myself), but it just feels so wrong and unrewarding. Unless all you care about is your epeen. Which is just terrible. People should have fun, not play the game to compensate.

This is not a game about skill anymore, rather a game of luck. Like your crown crate system ZOS.

The minority suffers from what u describe therefore, ZOS doesnt care. (Think about it, who meet those procsets the most? small scalers, solo players, im pretty sure a guy roaming with 24 men group does give a crap.)
The majority of this community aka forums are abusing any possible sets, ZOS does not care about it either.
The majority of this community are buying crown items like mad, therfore thats what only ZOS is care about.

JobooAGS wrote: »

Its a matter of having new players not constantly getting steam rolled all the time and therefore remain in the game. If someone comes into pvp, and gets steamrolled instantly, then they are less likely to continue playing. With proc sets, such new players will have a chance to compete aganist the better, more experienced players and therefore remain in the game therefore more revenue to the game. Similar to the grenade launcher (noob tube) from call of duty

There is a whole video on imperfect balance that explains this

Sorry but i dont give a ***, i earned my exp in the hard way. I die, i raised again and died again god knows how many times to become a decent player. No shortcuts, no proc sets, then why new players should have diff path?
It doesnt make any sense. PVP should be a skill based gameplay, and not what pants ure wearing.

Gilvoth

Minalan wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

over powered builds are the problem, not the armor not the weapons.
just need some nerfs made to certain builds, all that is needed.
this patch feels better and i believe every patch we see has been and will continue to be balance made.
eso is doing Great Job at balance.

i mean that sincerely, just being honest.

How often have you died now because sloads wouldn’t let you cloak?

You call that ‘skilled counterplay’?

i have slot purge, and adjusted my build and i have not died from sloads.

bardx86

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

over powered builds are the problem, not the armor not the weapons.
just need some nerfs made to certain builds, all that is needed.
this patch feels better and i believe every patch we see has been and will continue to be balance made.
eso is doing Great Job at balance.

i mean that sincerely, just being honest.

its not the builds its the sets. stacking 3 proc sets is way op and no fun to try and defend against.

Lexxypwns

bardx86 wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

over powered builds are the problem, not the armor not the weapons.
just need some nerfs made to certain builds, all that is needed.
this patch feels better and i believe every patch we see has been and will continue to be balance made.
eso is doing Great Job at balance.

i mean that sincerely, just being honest.

its not the builds its the sets. stacking 3 proc sets is way op and no fun to try and defend against.

Stacking 2 proc sets with Duroks is usually better

Nyladreas

So glad many people proved my point, whether it was knowingly and intentionally or not... Does not matter. Thank you.

Also speaking of new players not getting steamrolled... It's how PVP is. Show me any game out there you can win from day one because something special holds your hand. Yeah I thought so. As one of the people above stated... We earned our places in PVP through hard work and stressful experiences, being able to 1v4 without proc sets felt like an amazing achievement.

With that being said... It doesn't even really help new players that much, in fact I believe it makes WAY WAY WAY worse for them as they have no idea what the hell is even happening when they die. I have seen it with my own eyes. I can still steamroll new players with the same sets or different sets easily. I'll just assume you need an excuse to keep the procs going.

PS: I can still play the game well and found an easy workaround for sload and other proc sets. I'm once again here to remind you all, that the point of this topic is about how unsatisfying, boring and unflavourful PVP is becoming. It's not a whine topic about losing. Some people seem to have a really hard time understanding that.

Ankael07

There are only a handful of sets that carry people. Banning/nerfing every set that procs something is a bad choice that'll only result in killing build diversity and boring gameplay without the element of chaos.

Proc sets actually bring excitement to the game but only if its avoidable by the victim

IAVITNI

eso_nya wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

I'd also like to know what truly defines a good player.

When defeated:
A good player adapts and overcomes.
A bad player tunes down the difficulty of the game. Or asks for the game to be made easier for him.

Fair enough. But eventually the good player gets tired of losing to sets, not enemy skill. Sets like Durok's or Sloads are not healthy for the game. I can easily slap those on too, but it takes away from actually playing the game because the set does half the work.

If a player wants a 1-click win game, go play runescape. Otherwise, why even bother having a combat system like ESO? just give every class 1 spammable skill. Rest can be buffs and we all throw on proc sets.

Raising the floor and lowering the ceiling is a good way to kill or shorten the life span of the game. You're killing the learning curve more than anything.

And while casuals do make up majority of the player base, its the "good" players that continue to develop the game and community. Otherwise we'd all be pet sorcs running bows spamming light attacks.

Nyladreas

IAVITNI wrote: »

And while casuals do make up majority of the player base, its the "good" players that continue to develop the game and community. Otherwise we'd all be pet sorcs running bows spamming light attacks.

This is already true from what I've seen today, just slightly different... 9 out of 10 BGs, it's everyone with SnB and Staff, running Purge and Sload and Valkyn/Zaan and Cal and spamming light attacks hoping to kill stuff with it. Seriously... Or bleed builds at most xD which are just fine.

This is what happens when everyone starts to use these overtuned sets, people look for a way to defend against them, so now everyone uses the same identical build like monkeys trying to copy each other.

The game is absolutely reduced to garbage now, and people still support it which is shocking. What's the point of the game if the game plays for you while you watch? Everything is a boring meta that holds your hand and ESO is becoming just another boring MMO. In my opinion. Or at least definitely not the game I fell in love with.

As I said in the OP.... This is not a game about skill anymore, rather a game of luck. Like your crown crate system, ZOS.

Betsararie

It is a game of luck I think most people just couldn't figure out the game which is why they had to implement more rng factors proc sets etc thats what I think.