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What is the best way to tank the Gryphons in vCR?

pizzaow
pizzaow
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Is there any way to avoid the bleed (Hemorrhage)?.. @Alcast's guide mentions this can be dodged, but I've yet to avoid it (I can avoid the conal and the big ring, but still get the bleed). What is the "tell" that I should look for?.. from what I can tell, it's the boss's light attack or a similar (really quick) claw attack that applies this.

Sometimes my death recap shows 4 instances (each with 2-7 ticks), and other times it's a single instance with 30 ticks.

Any other strats for tanking this (other than separating the gryphon from the rider)?
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  • erlewine
    erlewine
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    yes roll dodge almost all the attacks, dont let it stack above 4-5
    eisley the worst
  • Greydir
    Greydir
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    You need to dodgeroll every time you can, when the gryphon moves its claw to do a normal attack. You could also wear histbark to grant you a chance in autododging if you are low on stamina for dodgerolls. You should communicate that with your group though, to balance out the support sets you have in your setup.
    Edited by Greydir on June 8, 2018 6:18AM
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  • Oreyn_Bearclaw
    Oreyn_Bearclaw
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    Best way to handle the gryphons is to run it on +3.

    I kid, but thats all the tanks in my progression group can talk about. haha
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  • code65536
    code65536
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    There is a stacking debuff from the gryphons called "Preyed Upon". Each time the gryphon lands a light attack (Talon Slice), this debuff gains a stack. This debuff is what amplifies the gryphons' bleed.

    So the way most tanks deal with this is to dodge roll as many of the light attacks as they can.

    But dodge rolling isn't easy:
    • The light attacks happen very frequently.
    • The light attacks are not telegraphed.
    • The light attacks take only half a second to land, so your window to dodge them is exceptionally narrow.
    • Latency can be an issue; in one run, I was hitting dodge the instant the gryphon raised its talon, and on my screen, the light attack would hit me as my character was in the middle of the dodge roll. The other tank who was watching me said that, on his screen, my character was standing still when the attack landed, and that my dodge roll didn't even start until afterwards.

    If I don't dodge any of the light attacks, I'll have 12-14 stacks of the debuff before the gryphon disengages and takes flight. With my unreliable dodging, I am able to reduce that down to 6-9 stacks of the debuff, which makes the bleed much more manageable. There are some tanks that I know who are exceptionally good at dodging the light attacks, and they'll end up with only 2-4 stacks of the debuff, and for them, the bleed is negligible.

    So trying to dodge does help a lot, even if you miss a lot of the dodges.

    That said, I don't think that dodging is the way that ZOS intended players to deal with this mechanic. These dodges are similar to those for the savages in vMoL, in the sense that these are untelegraphed attacks whose windows of opportunity to dodge are very narrow. And like the vMoL Savages, where the original (and probably intended) strategy was to keep them out of group to avoid the shatters hitting everyone, I think ZOS probably had something else in mind when they designed the gryphon bleed, and that the current common strategy of dodging probably isn't something that they had anticipated or intended.

    The best alternative strategy is to tank-swap. Once a tank gets hit by 6 or 7 of the gryphon's light attacks, they'll call for a tank swap, similar to what tanks do on the fourth boss of vHoF. When you do the +1/2 versions of vCR, tank-swapping becomes a much better idea, since your group will have three tanks, which allows you to assign two tanks to the gryphon, and they can trade aggro as needed to manage the bleed.

    Note 1: When I say that dodging is unintended, that does not mean that I think it's a bad strategy or that it shouldn't be used. It simply means that this probably wasn't what ZOS expected people to do. But it is the most efficient strategy, and if it works why not use it?

    Note 2: The Preyed Upon stacking debuff exists only in the Veteran version of Cloudrest.
    Edited by code65536 on June 18, 2018 10:50PM
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  • pizzaow
    pizzaow
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    Thanks for the feedback everyone.

    I'm trying the dodge-rolling tactic and it does help significantly (although I'm far from mastering it), but those who commented above are correct - even dodge rolling one or two attacks helps. I'm considering having a set of well-fitted armor on hand for this. With well-fitted armor and CP in tumbling dodge cost can get pretty low.

    One piece of advice that I've employed for this is to block the first claw, then begin dodge rolling; the gryphon will usually claw 3 or 5 times in a row and I was often mis-timing the first claw. The subsequent claws are at a predictable rhythm, which made mis-timed claws much less common, and it doesn't matter if you dodge the first two attacks or the last two.
    XBox/NA GT: Pizzaow
  • profundidob16_ESO
    profundidob16_ESO
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    So these stacks reset/dissapear if you are able to be not attacked by the gryphon for a while ?
  • code65536
    code65536
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    So these stacks reset/dissapear if you are able to be not attacked by the gryphon for a while ?

    Correct. If you do not gain any additional stacks for 20s, it will reset to zero. Typically, this will happen when the gryphon takes flight.
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    @code65536
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  • Apache_Kid
    Apache_Kid
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    I really wish this stacking mechanic would go away. The final boss in fang lair has the same thing with the Ice dot (at least you can reflect/abosrb those) but I think it's a lazy design mechanic especially for the gryphons. How are we supposed to dodge something that isn't telegraphed? Not a fan. As a tank main for 4-man content i really hope the new werewolf dungeons are void of this stacking dot mechanic.
  • profundidob16_ESO
    profundidob16_ESO
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    code65536 wrote: »
    So these stacks reset/dissapear if you are able to be not attacked by the gryphon for a while ?

    Correct. If you do not gain any additional stacks for 20s, it will reset to zero. Typically, this will happen when the gryphon takes flight.

    ah 20 seconds thanks. Then I agree that the intended mechanic sounds like maintank and offtank are supposed to swap roles constantly during the fight. This is the only solution that fits the puzzle since dodging stacks sounds....dodgy
  • code65536
    code65536
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    Apache_Kid wrote: »
    How are we supposed to dodge something that isn't telegraphed?

    @Apache_Kid Which is why I don't think the designers of this mechanic intended tanks to dodge the light attacks. If you're doing vCR +1/+2, tank swap is the easiest way to deal with this, since your group will have three tanks, so you might as well give the spare tank something useful to do during the side boss encounters.

    For vCR +0, since you won't have a spare tank, most tanks think that trying to dodge the light attacks is easier than coordinating swaps between the rider and gryphon tanks (remember, you don't need to dodge all of them; just half will be enough). But if you have trouble with reliably dodging them, you might find that coordinating tank swaps to be an easier.

    Do what works best for you.
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    @code65536
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    @code4096
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  • Weps
    Weps
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    What I do is dodge rolling the first 3 attacks and then blocking the last two.
    At that point it will start doing either the "mechanic" scream or the heavy attack cone so I will have time to simply side the gryphon and heavy attack to recharge stamina or simply taunt it and hit Deep Thoughts so I can refill stamina and be ready to start dodging again.

    Even tho, the swapping technique sounds good too
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  • Greydir
    Greydir
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    Theoreticly it should be possible to reliably swap the boss whenever the jump mechanic of the rider occures. Since in most cases the rider teleports towards the group, it can be used as a window of opportunity to swap bosses.
    I myself am more trained with the doge variant, so i think we will continue to use that.
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  • Gladium
    Gladium
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    code65536 wrote: »
    (snip)
    So the way most tanks deal with this is to dodge roll as many of the light attacks as they can.

    But dodge rolling isn't easy(snip)

    I want to jump in very late to the party and disagree and say that it is easy (maybe even too easy) to dodge the gryphon attacks. Just make sure you have potions to regen stamina and HAs while he is casting other stuff. You can take a few hits from the gryphon per "round" without it being too much of a problem. Dodge to win, no tank switching required. Easy. Even I can do it without dying from messing up a single time, so I genuinely believe anyone can.
    Edited by Gladium on July 17, 2018 12:02PM
  • Krayl
    Krayl
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    Why is tank-swapping an issue? I haven't tried this on vet yet. Just curious what causes a tank swap to be a problem. As an old school WoW player It's nothing new, just curious what factors to be aware of as my guild preps for trying this on vet.
  • Gladium
    Gladium
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    Krayl wrote: »
    Why is tank-swapping an issue? I haven't tried this on vet yet. Just curious what causes a tank swap to be a problem. As an old school WoW player It's nothing new, just curious what factors to be aware of as my guild preps for trying this on vet.

    The bosses enrage when they are too close. If you avoid swapping aggro, the tanks and bosses can stay mainly in the same spot, so less risk of overlapping them (even if it is just for a second).
    Edited by Gladium on July 19, 2018 8:53AM
  • HJSmith24
    HJSmith24
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    I personally found this possible to be outhealed without any roll dodging, on a DK tank with points into thick skinned (about 66). The first few stacks you barely notice, towards the middle amount of stacks you can igneous then GDB comfortably, then call out to you healers when the DoT gets particularly bad. It's also nice to have a magma shell available for if it gets particularly hairy.
  • profundidob16_ESO
    profundidob16_ESO
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    Hey,

    not my intention to necro the threat but I just recently started tanking this in "the dodge way" for the first time and I find myself having trouble to keep the stacks low. I mean even with 5 pieces well fitted medium gear the "dodge fatigue" causes me only to be able to dodgeroll once every few seconds or I run out of stamina in no time. So even if I dodgeroll whenever "Dodgeroll fatigue" CD is gone the stacks only reduce from 14 to 8-9. I could push a bit more but with the risk of running out of stamina no time. Even then I haven't been able to get lower than 7-8 ever tbh.

    How on earth could it be that some people are capable of managing to get only 4 or less stacks ?? It seems completely impossible to me or am I missing something ?
  • code65536
    code65536
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    Hey,

    not my intention to necro the threat but I just recently started tanking this in "the dodge way" for the first time and I find myself having trouble to keep the stacks low. I mean even with 5 pieces well fitted medium gear the "dodge fatigue" causes me only to be able to dodgeroll once every few seconds or I run out of stamina in no time. So even if I dodgeroll whenever "Dodgeroll fatigue" CD is gone the stacks only reduce from 14 to 8-9. I could push a bit more but with the risk of running out of stamina no time. Even then I haven't been able to get lower than 7-8 ever tbh.

    How on earth could it be that some people are capable of managing to get only 4 or less stacks ?? It seems completely impossible to me or am I missing something ?

    Nothing the gryphon does really needs to be blocked. So don't use any stam blocking. Spam dodge roll when he's spamming light attacks. And when he's doing other abilities, spam heavy attacks to restore stam.
    PC/NA ― Officer of Nightfighters ― Officer and former GM of The Merchant's Reserve
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    @code4096
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  • profundidob16_ESO
    profundidob16_ESO
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    code65536 wrote: »
    Hey,

    not my intention to necro the threat but I just recently started tanking this in "the dodge way" for the first time and I find myself having trouble to keep the stacks low. I mean even with 5 pieces well fitted medium gear the "dodge fatigue" causes me only to be able to dodgeroll once every few seconds or I run out of stamina in no time. So even if I dodgeroll whenever "Dodgeroll fatigue" CD is gone the stacks only reduce from 14 to 8-9. I could push a bit more but with the risk of running out of stamina no time. Even then I haven't been able to get lower than 7-8 ever tbh.

    How on earth could it be that some people are capable of managing to get only 4 or less stacks ?? It seems completely impossible to me or am I missing something ?

    Nothing the gryphon does really needs to be blocked. So don't use any stam blocking. Spam dodge roll when he's spamming light attacks. And when he's doing other abilities, spam heavy attacks to restore stam.

    Thanks. It worked and I realize now it's all about timing the rolls well and having enough resources to keep dodgerolling. So I went back in but this time with a more dedicated gear setup for this particular job:

    -5 pieces of well fitted medium "fortified brass" armor
    -1p Swarm mother and 1p Bloodspawn monster set (both for stamina recovery)
    -weapons and jewelry from the "trappings of invigoration" set, all with stamina recovery enchants.


    Same resistances as when in full heavy armor but loads of resources and dodgeroll cost reduction in order to dodgeroll like a monkey :)
    Edited by profundidob16_ESO on March 22, 2019 4:41PM
  • pelle412
    pelle412
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    Here's what I use tanking Gryffons.

    5pc well-fitted Torug's Pact with all stamina enchants.
    5pc Alkosh with all harmony jewelry, alkosh ice staff back bar
    Earthgore helm set

    When Gryffon comes to you, ice blockade, engulfing flames. When it goes up on hind legs, stay at its side and do 2 heavy attacks. Dodge roll as many light attacks as you can, and use igneous shield as often as you can for stamina return. Apply engulfing when possible and refresh taunt. Drink potion when its up.

    One tricky part is using synergies for resource return and Alkosh proc while dodge rolling. You may have to eat a light attack to have enough time to activate the synergy. In the end, you will have some bleed stacks on you but nothing you can't self-heal through. Earthgore procs help a lot. The really annoying part is after Gryffon is in the air, it throws these fast moving things at you that stuns you, which is bad when you're trying to heal up, so try to avoid those as well.
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